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Oh *show*!
I've miiiissed you, and your unmistakable mix of brilliance and complete wackiness!
Thoughts anyone? I mean the ending... Eeeeee! (I had been guessing that. Well one part of it. The 'zomg!' part - not the 'wft?LOL!' part. *dances*)
ETA: I'm reminded of this crossover with Invader Zim. SPOILERS for 'End of Time' Part 1!
I'll do a proper 'Christmas' post later, about family & stuff btw. 'Cause my family is lovely. I just needed to get this off my chest!
Thoughts anyone? I mean the ending... Eeeeee! (I had been guessing that. Well one part of it. The 'zomg!' part - not the 'wft?LOL!' part. *dances*)
ETA: I'm reminded of this crossover with Invader Zim. SPOILERS for 'End of Time' Part 1!
I'll do a proper 'Christmas' post later, about family & stuff btw. 'Cause my family is lovely. I just needed to get this off my chest!
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So sorry about the delayed reply. (I got really bad food poisoning and ended up in hospital, so i've been out of action for a couple of days :( But i'm fine now and back in perfect fangirl form) :P
I completely agree that anyone who wasn't expecting it to be totally nuts is even crazier than RTD. Of course it was going to be nuts. If for no other reason than its the MASTER!
I don't know, I think I just have this totally irrational love for RTD :P I fully acknowledge that his writing can be deeply flawed at times, but I just think the positives outweigh the negatives. Like, I know Moffatt!Who will probably be more adult, more tightly plotted etc, but I genuinely think it won't have the heart that RTD!Who has. He does the tiny human moments like no one else... and I really mean NO ONE else. (And this is coming from an uber-Joss-fan).
Have you seen his other stuff? Like Queer as Folk UK and The Second Coming? They're just... I have no words ♥
And OH MY GOD about the 'running through the red grass' bit. I mean, I know he doesn't believe in pandering to fans, but SERIOUSLY. That whole scene was like a love letter to fandom. Hearing the drumming... the Doctor ASKING HIM FOR HELP! I actually yelped 'oh my god' really really loudly at that point :P
P.S. Ok, I already feel like i've betrayed Joss with that earlier statement. Joss is still my master... Joss is still my master... *nods*
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It's by
I got really bad food poisoning and ended up in hospital, so i've been out of action for a couple of days :(
Good grief! Glad to know that you're OK!
I completely agree that anyone who wasn't expecting it to be totally nuts is even crazier than RTD. Of course it was going to be nuts. If for no other reason than its the MASTER!
Exactly! Also the Skeletor line is still making me chuckle. :)
I don't know, I think I just have this totally irrational love for RTD :P
Oh same here. And I'm right there with you on the way he captures tiny moments like no one else. *flails*
Have you seen his other stuff? Like Queer as Folk UK and The Second Coming? They're just... I have no words ♥
I saw Casanova, which I loved. (And I'm not really a fan of costume drama.)
And OH MY GOD about the 'running through the red grass' bit. I mean, I know he doesn't believe in pandering to fans, but SERIOUSLY. That whole scene was like a love letter to fandom.
Indeed. This is what happens when fans are in charge! *g* (I've said this before, but imho ALL TV should be written by gay uberfans!)
Hearing the drumming... the Doctor ASKING HIM FOR HELP! I actually yelped 'oh my god' really really loudly at that point :P
I'm not sure I was *capable* of speak. It was one of those 'Did he just say what I thought he said?'
Ok, I already feel like i've betrayed Joss with that earlier statement. Joss is still my master... Joss is still my master... *nods*
It's tricky... Joss was the one who made me into a fan, and I can't *begin* to explain what BtVS/AtS means to me, but... RTD does things Joss won't/can't. As in, he panders to his audience *more*, yet at the same time has no qualms about telling the story he wants to tell, no matter what. (Possibly he also has a lot more freedom working with the BBC than Joss does with FOX etc.)
Anyway, I have more - and longer - thoughts here. :)
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No no no, repeat after me: I will watch The Second Coming and Queer as Folk. I will watch The Second Coming and Queer as Folk...
Seriously. I cant stress it enough ;)
(I've said this before, but imho ALL TV should be written by gay uberfans!)
Oh I totally agree :P In all seriousness, I think fans spend so much time studying and analysing tv shows that they learn through osmosis what works and what doesn't. Fans are totally the best writers :)
RTD does things Joss won't/can't. As in, he panders to his audience *more*, yet at the same time has no qualms about telling the story he wants to tell, no matter what.
I'm trying to work out if I agree with that... I don't know. I cant think of a time where it seemed Joss wasn't telling the story he wanted to tell (save for Dollhouse). I really do think Buffy turned out exactly how he envisioned. I think he's just as brave a storyteller as RTD and he has far fewer episodes with gigantic plotholes and silliness etc. RTD suffers slightly from the fanboy effect. I think when coming up with stories he's sometimes overwhelmed by the squee of it all and loses touch with rationalism and logic :P I love him for it, but it can definitely be a flaw in his work that I don't see in Joss'. There's literally nothing in Buffy that can't be explained and justified plotwise. There were things I didn't like in that 'damn you evil showrunner!' kind of way, but never things I didn't agree with or think were unnecessary. Sometimes there is in Doctor Who. But I do think its exclusively a Who thing... the scale of the show gets RTD too excited to think straight :P All his other work is pretty damn close to perfection.
At the end of the day, I used to think DW was just Buffy!lite. But now that the RTD era is coming to a close i'm pretty sure that in 20 years time, i'm gonna remember Who just as vividly and fondly as Buffy. So RTD is obviously doing something right :)
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I've had 'Life on Mars' sat on my shelf for *months* now... (I've seen snippets, and Anna was so kind as to lend me the box sets, I've just not got round to it yet.) So... one day. If they're ever repeated.
In all seriousness, I think fans spend so much time studying and analysing tv shows that they learn through osmosis what works and what doesn't. Fans are totally the best writers :)
*nods*
Re. Joss and RTD... You definitely have a point about RTD's plot holes and so forth, and Joss' work being more coherent overall. (Overlooking the giant holes in the world building for Firefly, natch.) And there's the fact that DW isn't RTD's own, he's just carrying a torch, which he is now handing over. *ponders* I think I was probably thinking of CoE specifically, which is (IMHO) better than anything Joss has done - but Joss' overall output is much more even than RTD's. (I hope that makes sense, I'm half asleep.) Oh, and RTD made me cry more than Joss has. More than anything else, ever, actually.
At the end of the day, I used to think DW was just Buffy!lite.
Yeah, I started out that way too. And there are still episodes that make me wince (DW being a 'kids' show is not always a good thing), but when it's good, it's fantastic. :)
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Yeah, LoM is brilliant. I've watched a LOT of crime shows, and its definitely up there among the very very best. But you should try and get your hands on at least The Second Coming. It is classic RTD. And talk about telling the story he wants to tell... i'm genuinely amazed he managed to get it on the air.
I'm not as big a Firefly fan as some people, so I tend to forget about it sometimes! But yeah, Joss is definitely more even than RTD. Re. CoE, now that I think about it, it probably was better than most of Joss' stuff. BUT, there were still some eps of Buffy that beat it - Passion, Innocence, Becoming I + II, The Gift... nothing will ever be better than them in my opinion. (Or maybe that's just my crazy fangirl refusal to admit otherwise) ;)
Oh, and RTD made me cry more than Joss has. More than anything else, ever, actually.
Really?! See, for me it was The Gift. And Buffy killing Angel. I was a wreck, for days. But then again, it took me far longer to get over the final 20 minutes of Last of the Time Lords. Seriously, I was walking around in a daze unable to function for an embarrassingly long time. It truly killed me. Its probably my favourite 20 minutes of television ever, from when Martha is captured by the Master onwards ♥ (The people who whinge about LotTL drive me nuts).
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Duly noted.
Re. CoE, now that I think about it, it probably was better than most of Joss' stuff. BUT, there were still some eps of Buffy that beat it - Passion, Innocence, Becoming I + II, The Gift... nothing will ever be better than them in my opinion.
Hmmm. Well, becoming made me *stop* watching BtVS for a whole year, so it definitely had an impact (basically I decided I could live without that level of angst), but then I was also in floods of tears when 'Doomsday' aired, and I'm not even a Doctor/Rose shipper... When it comes to CoE though, three things: 1) RTD essentially destroyed his own show [& characters] to tell his story, rather than the other way around (I hope that makes sense), 2) He did things, and went places, I've not seen before and 3) Day 4 killed me unlike anything else ever, as I already said. It felt like bereavement, rather than TV. It's been half a year and I still get properly choked up. (I don't want EoT to end with a re-set, except it just occurred to me that this would bring Ianto back...)
But then again, it took me far longer to get over the final 20 minutes of Last of the Time Lords. Seriously, I was walking around in a daze unable to function for an embarrassingly long time. It truly killed me. Its probably my favourite 20 minutes of television ever, from when Martha is captured by the Master onwards ♥ (The people who whinge about LotTL drive me nuts).
Oh SoD/LotTL were the episodes that turned me obsessive. I liked the show perfectly well until then, but it was as if they'd flicked a switch and suddenly I saw in 3-D or something. And then came the 10,000 word meta... *happy sigh*
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Utopia/SoD/LotTL was the first time I elevated RTD to the same level as Joss in my head :)
Thinking about it now, one of the differences between Joss and RTD is that Russell seems to literally have no fear as a writer. Joss is a pretty fearless writer too, but like you said, Russell has no qualms about destroying his own show for the sake of the story. That's something i've never seen before and I think its admirable. Dangerous and scary and completely insane, but brave as hell. One day it will undoubtedly backfire on him in a massive way, but until then, its pretty mesmerizing to watch his work ♥
And i'm so sorry about posting that youtube link! I was totally overcome by squee and the minute I posted it I thought crap, what if she's trying to stay unspoiled and i'm just torturing her! Its not really spoilery, just a really overtly slashy scene, but by all means wait till you can see it in context because its just stunning :D
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Well I wasn't fannish. (Didn't get there until FFL, although it was Spike getting his soul that tipped me into obsession proper.) And these day I of course *love* the angst. :)
I think it just comes down to what or who you're more heavily invested in.
*nods* Everyone's different. Although I've discovered that there's a difference - with Becoming f.ex. (or Doomsday or Donna's mindwipe or Fred's death) I'm sad for the characters. With Ianto it was *personal*. I lost him. And it sounds *ridiculous* because I know perfectly well that he isn't real, but my emotions refuse to listen.
Utopia/SoD/LotTL was the first time I elevated RTD to the same level as Joss in my head :)
Same here! (Quite literally.)
Thinking about it now, one of the differences between Joss and RTD is that Russell seems to literally have no fear as a writer. Joss is a pretty fearless writer too, but like you said, Russell has no qualms about destroying his own show for the sake of the story. That's something i've never seen before and I think its admirable. Dangerous and scary and completely insane, but brave as hell.
Yes, exactly! Also he's not afraid to alienate the fans. (Post Ianto's death, his message was 'If you can't cope with drama, go read poetry. Poetry is lovely.' I kinda love him for that, even though I know a lot of people were upset.)
And i'm so sorry about posting that youtube link!
Oh no worries. I've seen the squee on my flist. Also I just listened to 'Who on Who?' where they played a clip, which I'm *guessing* is the same one, since it was stupidly shippy, so now I've heard it. *g*
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(New Doctor/Master scene from EoT pt2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ba5Q0NrQ8
Plus, there's a couple more lines which cap off the conversation in this post here: http://community.livejournal.com/doctorwho/5459428.html
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I'M DYING HERE.
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I think I might try to stay unspoiled, since it's only a couple of days. But it's good to know that it'll kill me! *looks forward*