![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Touched.
Well colour me stunned! AOQ gave 'Touched' an 'Excellent'. And not just that, but it also finally made him see the point of Spuffy:
Spike still has his obsessive faith (no pun intended) in Buffy, so he hunts her down to try to spark a little civil war. The resulting conversation... well, to say the least, it's impressive. It dances through Faith, how much of this Buffy has brought upon herself, the B/S arc from S6, identity as a Slayer and as a person, and makes it all seem like a cohesive train of thought. Buffy's so certain, such a convincing speechmaker, even when talking about depression and uncertainty. For his part, Spike says some of the wrong things (i.e. "connecting") and even in his monologue towards the end he can't always stay on topic, but Buffy does the favor of listening to the complete thought, and everyone's the better for it. As is so often the case, the actors deserve a good part of the credit for making it work so well, especially for the facial expressions, right down to Spike's "is this for real?" look that closes the scene. All in all, the outpouring of honest sentiment ranks among the series highlights. It's been quite a journey for them getting to this point, considering how things started, and how convincing this feels.
Just talking from a personal standpoint, I've always been resistant to a B/S relationship, despite liking both characters a lot. Part of it was that unsouled Spike was more interesting and consistent with the show's mythology when he was more evil. Ergo, it was degrading to Buffy's character to be with him, and discounting the crazier "shippers," I don't think the series ever intended to let us forget that. It's a big part of why "Crush" and "Dead Things" worked. Then it took a few episodes before I adjusted to S7 Spike as his own man. Another aspect is that I've never been a fan of couples that physically fight all the time, "cutely" or violently, nor with any semblance of using rape as a way show how much the misunderstood guy really cares. And through all this, I was feeling Angel's absence hanging over everything. Now? After "Touched," I think I can finally pledge my full support to the idea of putting these two back together... depending on what the show wants to do, of course.
Just wow. But - I have a few thoughts of my own...
Don't have a lot to say about the Faith & The Potentials side of things. It moves everything along, they come up with a good plan, First!Mayor is brilliant and all the sex comes across as just the sort of thing people do when things are desperate - they reach out for each other. Connect. Touch.
But about Buffy and Spike... now when I watch I just turn into a complete sap. It's not the speech (although it's wonderful, and I'll get to that in a minute). It's "Will you just hold me?" The implications of that moment are so deep, and build on so much, that I can't begin to explain what it means to me. So I won't even try - instead I'll focus on the speech:
1) It's a faint echo of Riley's speech in AYW. That bit never worked for me in AYW, because Riley got dumped into the story with no knowledge of what was happening, told Buffy "So your life sucks - hey, you're still a special lady!" and promptly vanished. It gave Buffy the incentive/strength to break up with Spike, but it didn't really change anything beyond that - two episodes later she was trying to kill her friends. Now in 'Touched' Spike has been around for years and years, knowing *exactly* what Buffy's been through and is actually able to make a real, permanent difference to her with his words.
2) It's a parallel to Riley's declaration of love in 'The Replacement'. I've dealt with that before in this post, and for now all I'll do is quote![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
scarlettgirl's reply:
The difference is that with Riley, his love was hinged on Buffy making him feel a certain set of emotions. When he no longer felt he was getting his emotional fix from Buffy he made the choice to end the relationship.
With Spike, whether he was getting the emotional validation from Buffy that he craved or whether she was beating him into the pavement and making him feel like dust, HE STILL LOVED HER. His love was not based on emotional feedback.
Riley loved Buffy and the way Buffy made him feel. Spike loved Buffy despite how Buffy made him feel.
Spike wins.
(Of course it's perfectly reasonable to want the person you're in a relationship with to love you back, and Riley was justified in leaving. But he also admitted defeat when doing so.)
3) It's a mirror of Buffy's speech to Spike in 'Never Leave Me', whichawmp has written about. Check it out, it's wonderful! And it demonstrates perfectly what is so wonderful about S7 Spuffy - they make each other stronger. As Hunter Maxin put it:
Spike does what Angel never did, never could, and never tried. Spike makes her stronger. Spike gives her faith. Spike gives her a reason to win.
4) This one is new - I only just thought of it. Spike's speech is the perfect response to Buffy's dilemma in CWDP. Remember her superiority/inferiority complex? Spike gets past it:
Buffy: 'Cause even though they love me, it doesn't mean anything 'cause their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through. They're not the slayer. I am. Sometimes I feel - this is awful - I feel like I'm better than them. Superior.
Spike: I’ve been alive a bit longer than you and dead a lot longer than that. I’ve seen things you couldn’t imagine and done things I’d prefer you didn’t. I don’t exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my blood which doesn’t exactly rush in the direction of my brain so I make a lot of mistakes. A lot of wrong bloody calls. A hundred plus years and there’s only one thing I’ve ever been sure of. You.
Here Spike puts himself in the superior position. He's older, he's been trough more things, and while that doesn't make him better in any way, he can pull rank as it were.
Holden: All chosen. All destiny. Who could live with that for seven years and not feel superior?
Buffy: I'm not. My God, if anything, I -
Holden: What?
Buffy: I just - if you knew what I've done, what I've let myself become. My best friends don't even - You'd laugh, you heard some of the things I've done to them. [...] I have all this power. I didn't ask for it. I don't deserve it. [...] I feel like I'm worse than anyone. Honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriends. I feel like I'm not worthy of their love.
Spike: I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I’ve seen your kindness and your strength. I’ve seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You are a hell of a woman. You’re the one, Buffy.
And then Spike can lift her up again: He's seen it all. The good, the bad, the really, really ugly. Riley might have said 'None of that touches you', but what did he know? Spike on the other hand can say it, knowing that Buffy has to take him seriously. He isn't a lovestruck Angel, or a clueless Riley. He's Spike - the one who tried to pull her into the darkness, but who can also acknowledge that her light still shines brightly. So brightly that it brought him out from the dark and into the light.
Spike still has his obsessive faith (no pun intended) in Buffy, so he hunts her down to try to spark a little civil war. The resulting conversation... well, to say the least, it's impressive. It dances through Faith, how much of this Buffy has brought upon herself, the B/S arc from S6, identity as a Slayer and as a person, and makes it all seem like a cohesive train of thought. Buffy's so certain, such a convincing speechmaker, even when talking about depression and uncertainty. For his part, Spike says some of the wrong things (i.e. "connecting") and even in his monologue towards the end he can't always stay on topic, but Buffy does the favor of listening to the complete thought, and everyone's the better for it. As is so often the case, the actors deserve a good part of the credit for making it work so well, especially for the facial expressions, right down to Spike's "is this for real?" look that closes the scene. All in all, the outpouring of honest sentiment ranks among the series highlights. It's been quite a journey for them getting to this point, considering how things started, and how convincing this feels.
Just talking from a personal standpoint, I've always been resistant to a B/S relationship, despite liking both characters a lot. Part of it was that unsouled Spike was more interesting and consistent with the show's mythology when he was more evil. Ergo, it was degrading to Buffy's character to be with him, and discounting the crazier "shippers," I don't think the series ever intended to let us forget that. It's a big part of why "Crush" and "Dead Things" worked. Then it took a few episodes before I adjusted to S7 Spike as his own man. Another aspect is that I've never been a fan of couples that physically fight all the time, "cutely" or violently, nor with any semblance of using rape as a way show how much the misunderstood guy really cares. And through all this, I was feeling Angel's absence hanging over everything. Now? After "Touched," I think I can finally pledge my full support to the idea of putting these two back together... depending on what the show wants to do, of course.
Just wow. But - I have a few thoughts of my own...
Don't have a lot to say about the Faith & The Potentials side of things. It moves everything along, they come up with a good plan, First!Mayor is brilliant and all the sex comes across as just the sort of thing people do when things are desperate - they reach out for each other. Connect. Touch.
But about Buffy and Spike... now when I watch I just turn into a complete sap. It's not the speech (although it's wonderful, and I'll get to that in a minute). It's "Will you just hold me?" The implications of that moment are so deep, and build on so much, that I can't begin to explain what it means to me. So I won't even try - instead I'll focus on the speech:
1) It's a faint echo of Riley's speech in AYW. That bit never worked for me in AYW, because Riley got dumped into the story with no knowledge of what was happening, told Buffy "So your life sucks - hey, you're still a special lady!" and promptly vanished. It gave Buffy the incentive/strength to break up with Spike, but it didn't really change anything beyond that - two episodes later she was trying to kill her friends. Now in 'Touched' Spike has been around for years and years, knowing *exactly* what Buffy's been through and is actually able to make a real, permanent difference to her with his words.
2) It's a parallel to Riley's declaration of love in 'The Replacement'. I've dealt with that before in this post, and for now all I'll do is quote
scarlettgirl's reply:The difference is that with Riley, his love was hinged on Buffy making him feel a certain set of emotions. When he no longer felt he was getting his emotional fix from Buffy he made the choice to end the relationship.
With Spike, whether he was getting the emotional validation from Buffy that he craved or whether she was beating him into the pavement and making him feel like dust, HE STILL LOVED HER. His love was not based on emotional feedback.
Riley loved Buffy and the way Buffy made him feel. Spike loved Buffy despite how Buffy made him feel.
Spike wins.
(Of course it's perfectly reasonable to want the person you're in a relationship with to love you back, and Riley was justified in leaving. But he also admitted defeat when doing so.)
3) It's a mirror of Buffy's speech to Spike in 'Never Leave Me', which
awmp has written about. Check it out, it's wonderful! And it demonstrates perfectly what is so wonderful about S7 Spuffy - they make each other stronger. As Hunter Maxin put it:Spike does what Angel never did, never could, and never tried. Spike makes her stronger. Spike gives her faith. Spike gives her a reason to win.
4) This one is new - I only just thought of it. Spike's speech is the perfect response to Buffy's dilemma in CWDP. Remember her superiority/inferiority complex? Spike gets past it:
Buffy: 'Cause even though they love me, it doesn't mean anything 'cause their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through. They're not the slayer. I am. Sometimes I feel - this is awful - I feel like I'm better than them. Superior.
Spike: I’ve been alive a bit longer than you and dead a lot longer than that. I’ve seen things you couldn’t imagine and done things I’d prefer you didn’t. I don’t exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my blood which doesn’t exactly rush in the direction of my brain so I make a lot of mistakes. A lot of wrong bloody calls. A hundred plus years and there’s only one thing I’ve ever been sure of. You.
Here Spike puts himself in the superior position. He's older, he's been trough more things, and while that doesn't make him better in any way, he can pull rank as it were.
Holden: All chosen. All destiny. Who could live with that for seven years and not feel superior?
Buffy: I'm not. My God, if anything, I -
Holden: What?
Buffy: I just - if you knew what I've done, what I've let myself become. My best friends don't even - You'd laugh, you heard some of the things I've done to them. [...] I have all this power. I didn't ask for it. I don't deserve it. [...] I feel like I'm worse than anyone. Honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriends. I feel like I'm not worthy of their love.
Spike: I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I’ve seen your kindness and your strength. I’ve seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You are a hell of a woman. You’re the one, Buffy.
And then Spike can lift her up again: He's seen it all. The good, the bad, the really, really ugly. Riley might have said 'None of that touches you', but what did he know? Spike on the other hand can say it, knowing that Buffy has to take him seriously. He isn't a lovestruck Angel, or a clueless Riley. He's Spike - the one who tried to pull her into the darkness, but who can also acknowledge that her light still shines brightly. So brightly that it brought him out from the dark and into the light.
no subject
::hates S7 with a blinding passion::
no subject
This makes no sense to me. Moreso than Spike's speech, which gives Buffy back a sense of self-worth, her response is incredibly important - she lets him in, lets him be close. She has not let anyone be close since Angel (and look what that led to). He declares it 'the best night of his life' the next day (to be contrasted with his prior statement in FFL, when he said killing his first Slayer had given him the best night of his life). I can't see how Buffy could *possibly* have given him more, except maybe asked him to marry her...
no subject
And the very next week, says, "Why did it have to mean ANYTHING?" In other words, she knows what she means to him, and still uses him to make herself feel better...again.
Add into that her abusive behavior and her refusal to take responsibility for her own sexuality, her own bad behavior, etc., and I have to say that so far I've refused to allow my 12 year old to watch the second half of S6 or much at all of S7, because I don't want her mistaking late-series Buffy for a hero.
no subject
her refusal to take responsibility for her own sexuality, her own bad behavior, etc.
I'm not sure I see that. When she breaks up with Spike, she admits that she's using him, and apologises.
I would definitey not let a 12 year old watch S6, because things get so monumentally screwed up and disturbing, but I do love Buffy in those seasons. To use one of my favourite quotes (by
I love Season 6 Buffy. I love her in a way I didn't love any of the other Buffys before her. I see in Season 6 Buffy somebody braver than the teenage girl who had to kill the love of her life and could still find it in her to come back and announce to the world "I'm Buffy. The Vampire Slayer. And you are?" I see somebody braver than the big sister who has to hold everything together when her mother dies. I see somebody braver than the girl who gives her own life to save the world. And I see somebody fight harder than she has ever had to fight before, because she's fighting for the will to go on fighting, and I don't know that she's ever had to fight a battle more alone.
She is so damaged, and hurting so much, and yet she keeps going. She isn't easy to like, but as Anna goes on to say:
I get why the self-centredness of Buffy in Season 6 gets to people, I really do. But I also know what it's like to have to fight to see beyond the mess in your own head. I know what it's like to feel like you have the Midas touch in reverse; that everything you come into contact with is tarnished by that; and that by not giving any of yourself to the people you come into contact with, you can somehow avoid hurting them.
no subject
no subject
What has Spike wanted all his (un)life? To be accepted and respected. Cecily wouldn't do it. His mother (post-vamping) wouldn't do it. Even though he tried his best to impress him for 20 years, Angelus wouldn't do it. Darla barely tolerated him. Even Drusilla's head could be turned at a moment's notice by a pretty line of flattery from the Immortal, or Angelus, or even a slimy Chaos demon.
And then in 'Touched' Buffy - the woman, let's remember, he once tried to rape - shows that she now trusts him enough to go to sleep in his arms. She accepts him for what he is, what he's made himself into.
Like she says the next day, it doesn't have to 'mean' anything - in the sense of 'oh, now we're in a relationship', 'now we can get married' or whatever. As it happens, I don't believe Buffy thinks of Spike that way anyway. What she does do is finally accept him, as a friend and as a man.
Something I don't think anybody else has really done in all 220 years of his existence...
no subject
::nods:: This is even stated explicitly in the episode, as it cuts away from Buffy and Spike:
BUFFY: No, I mean...here. Will you just hold me?
Spike sits on the bed beside Buffy and puts his arm around her. She curls up on him, cuddling up to his chest as he puts his arm around her shoulder, holding her head with his hand.
Cut to:
22 INT. BUFFY'S ROOM AT BUFFY'S HOUSE - NIGHT
The Mayor/First is talking to Faith.
MAYOR/FIRST: Deep down, you always wanted Buffy to accept you, to love you even. Why do you think that is?