CoE re-watch, Day 4 & 5 + a little Ianto meta.

[elisi]

So, it wasn't actually as hard as I thought it'd be. It probably helped that Darcy was there, whose automatic response to J/I is to roll his eyes and mutter things about Teh Gay... (If it was two girls, his reaction would be v. different. He's such a *guy*!) Anyway, I managed to keep my composure almost entirely (the moment that *really* hurt was Gwen straightening the tie. Actually, just Gwen's reaction overall. *sniff*).

And I knew to close my eyes for Steven's death, so...

Anyway, Darcy... well his overall opinion is that Days 1-3 were very well written drama ("much better than the usual Torchwood crap!"), but Days 4 & 5 descended into melodrama, which (in his opinion) is cheap & easy. Also he felt cheated out of a big space battle - if you have a *nasty* alien in a tank, you are *obliged* to have a giant battle according to him.

Oh and he didn't like the ending - if *he* had written it, then Jack would have reappeared a few seconds later, wearing a sombrero, a Hawaiian shirt and carrying a ukulele and a donkey pinata, saying "Hey - why the long faces?" because for him it'd have been 3 million years... (I'm sure you can see why I HAD to share that mental image with y'all! *g*)

ETA: How could I forget? After we'd finished watching he was looking up news stories on the internet, and came across an article about Ianto fans setting up a petition to bring him back (and in the process raising £1800 for Children in Need, since he died 'saving the children of Earth'), the article including quotes like 'I am so hurt, it feels like a member of my family died!' - Darcy dearest laughed and laughed.

ETA2: He also observed (whilst watching Day 5 when they children get taken away) that of course the real joke was the mere idea that the government could ever arrange anything on that scale in that short a time... *g*

A thought about Ianto Jones

Now, when re-watching something struck me - namely that Ianto is the driving force behind the 'Standing up to the 456' plan. There is the J/I conversation, where Ianto asks Jack why he never told him, and Jack asks "What should I have done?" to which Ianto replies "Stood up to them. The Jack I know would have stood up to them." (from memory - are there transcripts yet?) It has been noted how of course Ianto is from that bottom 10%, and I think that this makes it incredibly personal to him - it is, quite literally, his family on the line, which ties in with Denise Riley (the female politician) twice over: 1) The 'how am I supposed to look my brother [sister] in the eye?', and 2) It's clear which people are useful for society (Able student but not exceptional, one minor conviction for shoplifting in your teens. Number of temporary jobs, mainly a drifter, until two years ago...) Standing by the tank, Jack is the one talking philosophy, Ianto the one who just wants to put the point across. (Speak softly and carry a big stick bring a Jack Harkness.)

Actually re. the two points I raised - we see that one of those 'expendable' people solves the 'What about nieces & nephews?' problem by being willing to die for them...

Now I think that Jack's actions (to a certain degree at least) come from him wanting to be the hero Ianto sees in him... Ianto has gone from 'You're a monster!' to 'I believe in you!', and (as we saw in that conversation) refuses to let Jack get away with pretending that he (Jack) doesn't care.

So... my conclusion is that Ianto was there because he wanted to be there. Not as Jack's 'sidekick', but as a pissed-off human standing up for his race. The fight was *his* more than any of the other's. And that works for me.

Comments

[lostakasha.livejournal.com]

Mr. Darcy's reactions were priceless. As far as offering an intelligent response to your meta, that's going to have to wait. I'm still spun by the whole 5 nights. It was a wonderful thing, so chilling, so many layers, so much to process! My other half was puzzled by Gewn at the end, telling Jack to stay 'for me.' D was all "does she mean for me, me? With Rhys standing right there? What's it matter to her?"

Poor dearie. I petted her hand and smiled, a faraway look in my eyes.

[elisi]

Mr. Darcy's reactions were priceless.
Even when I feel like hitting him over the head, I can't help but smile... *g*

As far as offering an intelligent response to your meta, that's going to have to wait. I'm still spun by the whole 5 nights. It was a wonderful thing, so chilling, so many layers, so much to process!
Oh, I'm right there with you. SO much there. I'm actually thinking of making a post full of links later on, with all the best meta & fic. (For my thoughts, just follow the CoE tag!)

Poor dearie. I petted her hand and smiled, a faraway look in my eyes.
Heh. I wrote a whole post just on that last scene...

[kathyh]

Also he felt cheated out of a big space battle - if you have a *nasty* alien in a tank, you are *obliged* to have a giant battle according to him.

Not on a BBC budget you're not *g*. I think I can safely say that Darcy and fannishness are non-mixy things :)

Seriously, did he not find the Cobra meeting scene good drama because we both thought it was?

Darcy dearest laughed and laughed.

J sent me that from work :)

[elisi]

Not on a BBC budget you're not *g*.
Indeed.

I think I can safely say that Darcy and fannishness are non-mixy things :)
Oh yes!

Seriously, did he not find the Cobra meeting scene good drama because we both thought it was?
He found the Day 3 meetings good, I think, but by Day 4 he was in 'this is ridiculous' territory I'm afraid.

J sent me that from work :)
We should set up a separate fandom, I think...

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

ETA2: He also observed (whilst watching Day 5 when they children get taken away) that of course the real joke was the mere idea that the government could ever arrange anything on that scale in that short a time... *g*

I was also tremendously amused at that idea. I work (technically) for the State of Washington, and remembering the endless series of meeting and emails and commentary on changing isolation gowns...

[elisi]

I work (technically) for the State of Washington, and remembering the endless series of meeting and emails and commentary on changing isolation gowns...
I suppose that if they had The End Of The World hanging over their heads they might work a little faster, but even so... Ah well, it's sci-fi. *g*

[gillo]

I did wonder where all the yellow school buses came from. I've never seen one. Not in Britain, that is.

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I'm curious now; do you have school buses, just in a different color? Or do the kids take regular buses? In my city the younger kids take the yellow buses and the older kids take regular city buses, but that's not typical.

[sapphirekeep.livejournal.com]

Wandered over from Torchwood Three...

Re: Ianto standing up to the 456, I've been thinking of that and been surprised I hadn't seen it mentioned yet. Yes, from a plot standpoint, going in there was just stupid. But from a character standpoint, Ianto had to be there because if he hadn't been, Jack wouldn't have been there either. Jack goes because he's trying to be the hero Ianto wants him to be. Ianto goes with him because he's been trying to bonk it through Jack's alienated head that he doesn't have to stand alone, that he's willing and able to stand by Jack no matter what. That's what I heard in their last pre-Thames-House conversation. Their arrival at Thames House doesn't make any sense from a saving-the-world perspective, but from a relationship perspective, it makes perfect sense.

[elisi]

Re: Ianto standing up to the 456, I've been thinking of that and been surprised I hadn't seen it mentioned yet.
I wondered that maybe I just hadn't read enough...

That's what I heard in their last pre-Thames-House conversation.
Yes, same here. It echoes back to 'Adam' (although they can't remember it): "Coming here... gave me meaning again. You." Ianto's world revolves around Jack, so Jack has to step up.

Their arrival at Thames House doesn't make any sense from a saving-the-world perspective, but from a relationship perspective, it makes perfect sense.
*nods* And as someone who is all about characterisation (plotholes? Who cares?) that pleases me immensely. :)

[fakelunacy.livejournal.com]

... to which Ianto replies "Stood up to them. The Jack I know would have stood up to them."

Aw, faithful Ianto. That line always bothered me though.

The Jack from back then isn't the same as the Jack he is now... Sooo, he wouldn't have stood up to the aliens or anything, right? Wasn't that the period of Jack's life where he was just apathetic to everything while he waited for the Doctor? As the woman in the car tells Jack: "Actually we need someone who doesn't care." XD

[elisi]

Aw, faithful Ianto. That line always bothered me though.
Ah now. Good points, definitely, but I think it's important to remember that Ianto isn't blind to Jack's deficits - quite the opposite. He called Jack a monster, and I think he is very aware of what Jack is capable of. Notice that he isn't particularly shocked at what Jack did, even asks him why he didn't share.

Which is my horribly roundabout way of saying that Ianto knows that Jack has *changed* - that the Jack of *now* would have made a different choice. And indeed, he does. (That choice then costs him Ianto... really, it's not surprising that he's messed up.)

[gillo]

Sorry about the delayed response to this - I was away from my home computer and thus email access.

Interesting. I'm curious now; do you have school buses, just in a different color? Or do the kids take regular buses? In my city the younger kids take the yellow buses and the older kids take regular city buses, but that's not typical.

In rural districts the council may contract a regular school bus from the local bus/coach company, but it will have their logo on and be in whatever colour scheme the company has. In urban areas they usually hand out bus passes. That generally applies mostly to older children, though, as little ones generally go to a school in walking distance.

The yellow buses, unmarked except for the cards with the "Watch out - children" symbol, were, I assume, shorthand for an international audience to make it clear children were inside. To me they looked vaguely sinister, though, as you just don't see yellow school buses normally, and it made the whole thing look even more of a carefully-planned conspiracy. Not that anyone would believe our government could carry it out that efficiently.

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Thanks for taking the time to answer-- it's one of those things that it had never occurred to me to wonder about!

And as a state employee I share you belief that there is no way in hell that my government would be organized enough to pull something like that off. You should see the fight over "Swine flu" vs "N1H1" vs "Novel" at my hospital! And that's just terminology!