Split personality, anyone?

[elisi]

I am on a roll at the moment! It's fun, but I'm afraid it means that all fic writing is delayed.

This week peasant_ is discussing the Angel/Angelus conundrum. (Why do I have a feeling that having her on my flist is going to get me even *more* obsessed?) Anyway, she was proposing two theories:
 
A: Angel is basically one vampire who behaves in two different ways.
B: Angel and Angelus are two distinct personalities, distinct beings.
 
I've always gone with A, alhtough there are a few - or more precicely ONE BIG - problem. As she put it:
 
I was perfectly happy accepting the integrated model A, assuming Cordy was just deluded in maintaining Angel and Angelus were separate, right up until AtS4 when episodes like Awakening (why does Angel not remember something that Angelus does?) and Orpheus threw a right spanner in the works.

I'm not going to deal with Orpheus - he's under the influence of a magical drug and chatting with Faith somewhere in his own brain. It can all be taken as a metaphor or something. No - it's the other thing:
 
Why can't Angel remember the Beast, but Angelus can? It would seem the definitive proof of model B. Except... I think I've worked it out! And hey - IT ALL MAKES SENSE! *does somersaults*

(ETA: I'm sure loads of you have thought of this already btw.)

First of all, Season 4 of Angel is the big ret-con season. Skip claims that Jasmine had a hand in pretty much everything since Angel came to LA (maybe even before?). Also - nothing is as it seems. It plays on people, this season. The entire thing is one big giant enormous complicated plot. Now in the light of this, lets examine what we know:

-Jasmine wiped away *every* knowledge of The Beast in an entire dimension, except for a tiny unimportant fragment, somehow hidden where souled-Angel couldn't access it. Rather sloppy, don'tcha think?

- The Beast (who barely speaks 3 words in its entire time on screen), bothers to greet Angel by name, after having met him once for 5 minutes a few centuries before.

- Cordy/Jasmine is the one who manipulates Angel into having his soul removed - and being the Beast's Master she knows full well what took place between him and the Beast, and that it is of NO importance.

- Angelus is (somehow) crucial to Jasmine's plan.

So - I propose that the whole thing was an elaborate plot to enable Cordy/Jasmine to steal Angel's soul:
 
- She made the big forgetting spell *specifically* so there would somehow be a bit 'hidden' in Angel's head. (If the military can make a chip sensitive enough to sense whether someone is human or not, then I'll happily buy that a Power gone awry can design a spell like that.)
 
- She instructed the Beast to speak to Angel, which was the only way they'd begin to puzzle things out. Once they worked out that it might be 'Angelus' who was the key to the whole thing, they began wondering about removing Angel's soul and boy howdy but Cordy/Jasmine did a good job of making Angel doubt himself.
 
- Once the soul had been extracted (and after she had stolen it) - Cordy/Jasmine made Angelus an offer she knew she wouldn't have to go through with. He promptly told the truth, making everyone scratch their heads, since y'know - nothing happened when Angelus met the Beast. Anyway, now they needed to re-soul him, since they had no further use for Angelus.
 
- Then - when the soul was (gasp!) gone - she got her "vision" that lead to the fake souling spell. Once Angel(us) had convinced everyone that he was souled again (my personal take is that it was a localised spell that made him act souled as long as he was in the cage), Cordy/Jasmine could safely let him out, knowing that the others wouldn't blame her.
 
- Finally, Cordy/Jasmine now had one Angelus running free in LA, ready to be blackmailed into doing her bidding.
 
 
And there you have it! As far as I can remember, it's only Cordy who keeps nattering on about the Angel/Angelus split. ETA: About Cordy - I think she's very aware that she's 'the main girl' in Angel's life, and that if he loses his soul, she'll be pretty much top of the list. Which can't be a nice thought...

Anyway, all you have to do it piece it together backwards and it all makes sense. It was a ret-con that took place before our very eyes!!!! :)
 
And because I thought it'd be nice to get a lighter layout for summer, and because I've had this header sat in a folder for far too long, I did up my LJ and it now features lovely Angel. :)

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

That actually does make sense.

I've never been able to work out why Cordy/Jasmine wanted Angelus back, especially since Jasmine seemed perfectly happy with Angel.

Oh, one minor quibble, Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1. I put this down to her really not liking the idea of working for a psychotic killer.

[elisi]

Thank you. :)

And I don't know why Jasmine wanted Angelus either - it's my major quibble with the whole thing. He's apparently *crucial*, but I've still to see anyone explain why.

Cordy does state her belief in the separation of Angel and Angelus as early as AtS1
Gah! It's been far too long since I've watched AtS. But your explanation sounds very sensible - knowing that your boss has an evil alter ego has got to be unsettling. Especially for her - Doyle was half-deomn, Wesley was a watcher, Gunn a skilled vamp killer, but Cordy was rather lacking when it came to fighting.

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

So - I propose that the whole thing was an elaborate plot to enable Cordy/Jasmine to steal Angel's soul

That's always been my assumption! I always assumed that the "Two separate personalities" thing is Angel's human friends way of dealing with season two (BTVS). And when I rewatched season two one thing that stood out to me is that Dru and Spike call him "Angel"; not "Angelus". Frankly I never got the impression that Angel himself believed the two personalities thing; but that he was willing to go along with it as it made things easier for Cordy and Fred (possibly Wes and Gun?).

[deborahc.livejournal.com]

And when I rewatched season two one thing that stood out to me is that Dru and Spike call him "Angel"; not "Angelus"

They did call him Angelus (hitting the first, rather than the second syllable), after he lost his soul and moved into the factory.

[elisi]

Hmmm I think Angel (with time) quite carefully crafts the 'Angel' persona (he's after all the one who came up with the name etc.) as a way of distancing himself somehow from his past crimes. (I'm re-watching 'Guise Will Be Guise' and man there are some good insights in that episode!)

Sadly tough I don't have time to elaborate more right now... (re-watch it yourself and see!!!)

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

the whole thing was an elaborate plot to enable Cordy/Jasmine to steal Angel's soul

Actually that's what more or less what I've always presumed - ever since it became clear that Cordy was not herself, so to speak!

[elisi]

Well I didn't think that I could possibly be the first one to come up with it! *g* Mostly I just never thought of it in any sort of detail.

[spuffyduds.livejournal.com]

That completely makes sense. And I'm pretty sure that Angel says something when he's first telling Buffy about the Gypsy curse like, "You don't know what it's like to have done what I've done...and to remember all of it." (I'll have to watch the "Angel" ep again...I may be making it up.) So an explanation of the Beast memory lapse is in order, and yours totally works...

I always sort of resented, on Spike's behalf, the fact that no one assumes that he's a different person when he has a soul, at least in terms of naming. Even though he had really done much less to harm Buffy and the Scoobies than Angel/Angelus did. I think it was really a case of "first impressions"--souled Angel was the first one they met, so "Angelus" was an aberration; soulless Spike was the first one they met, so that was who he really WAS, to them. (Admittedly, Spike made a HELL of a first impression.)

[elisi]

I know the quote you mean, but it goes a little differently. I think what you're actually thinking of is this one, from 'Five by Five'. (Angel speaking to Darla, just after getting his soul:

"Funny. You would think with all the - people I've maimed - and killed I wouldn't be able to remember every - single - one. (Darla walks up to him) Help me."

And yes I see what you're saying about Spike and Angel, and I guess I agree - although they're always a bit hesitant around Angel in S3...

[calove.livejournal.com]

Hee! LOVE the banner!

I can't really comment on your Angel/Angelus theory, because I'm ashamed to say lack of Spikey goodness has lead me to not bother watching AtS up until now. However - I'm going to put that right over the summer :) It sounds very neat, though.

I've always had a problem with Angel/Angelus versus souled!Spike/souless!Spike. I guess I've tended to concentrate on the Spike side of things - Spike is an anomoly for some undefined reason (William's nature and some deep strength of character that carries over to Spike or whatever), whereas Angelus is a particularly nasty version of your standard vampire; particularly nasty partly because his template is Liam. Where this falls down is why is Angel such a good guy (mostly)? Why doesn't his Liam persona shine through here, too? I've heard it suggested that the soul that he was cursed with wasn't, in fact, Liam's. So - he got a better one? Hmmm. We know Spike got his soul back, because Lurky said "we will give you back your soul" or whatever. But Angel? Which gets us into what is a soul in the Buffyverse at which point my brain fries.

Oh, now look what you did - got me rambling on something I really know nothing about! Sorry about that. Hopefully, with your thoughts in mind, I'll understand things more when I watch AtS!

[elisi]

The banner is AWESOME! (Have you seen 'In The Dark'? btw)

not bother watching AtS up until now
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! That is bad! Veeeeery bad! But - there is SO much good stuff waiting for you. :) (Like S3 of Buffy has almost no Spike, but Faith and The Mayor are totally brilliant!) Prepare yourself for falling for Angel - because he is so much better on his own show!

About the Angel/Angelus thing... well I'm kinda in the middle of writing this huge giant post thing about souls and redemption (6000 words and counting. *headdesk*), so I won't go into it too much. Basically I think that he created 'Angel' as a defense mechanism against 'Angelus' - getting he soul was obviously hugely traumatic, and this was how he tried to manage. I'm sure it was his own soul - Liam - and watching him on his own show, you actually get a much better sense of that. Partly he's had time to grow up, and also Angel can be vain, daft and dorky (which I think is his Liam side coming out) - as well as ruthless, funny, manipulative, broody... ah well, just watch it! :)

I happen to have a house to tidy...

[spikewriter]

Great banner. :)

Interesting thoughts. My take was always that Angel is Angelus, but the way he and everyone else around him deals with it is by doing the "they are two different personalities." As for why he can't remember certain things? He doesn't want to remember certain things, because the "good" Angel probably wouldn't be able to deal emotionally with some of this (might end up gibbering in the corner). He clearly does remember on a subconcious level at least, given some of his reactions.

Good thoughts on the Cordy/Jasmine desire to bring out Angelus -- I still haven't quite figured out what they wanted, unlesss the Angelus situation was a complete macguffin designed to keep everyone's attention focused there while Jasmine came close to born. I haven't watched in a while, so I don't remember al the details of the season.

[elisi]

Thanks. :) I love Angel so very much!

But I have to disagree with you on the Angel thing - well sort of. Angel definitely remembers everything he did when he was evil (he points this out at least twice), but he very deliberately tries to *act* differently than Angelus. 'Angel' is to a large degree a construct, a way of suppressing his demon, to somehow distance himself from what he is. I just re-watched 'Guise Will Be Guise' which is a *fascinating* episode. F.ex. this bit:

[Angel and Magev The Fake Swami are sparring]
Magev: "You're fighting yourself. Fight me! Why are you holding back? Why can't you let go?"
Angel: "Because."
Magev: "Why?"
Angel over their locked staffs: "If I let it, it'll kill you."
Magev: "It?"
Angel disengages and steps back: "The demon."
Magev: "Ha! But the demon is you!"
Angel: "No."
Magev: "Yes! That's the thing you spend so much energy trying to conceal!"
Angel shakes his head: "No, I just - I can't let it control me."
Magev nods: "Ah. I see. (Hits Angel's knee hard then hooks the staff behind his legs to drop him onto his back) You *don't* think it controls you?"

Hmmmmmmm. Angel is a wonderful character! :)

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

Your theory makes a lot of sense, although it also demonstrates why S4 annoys me so. It had some great individual moments, but the plotting makes the kind of sense that doesn't.

As far as Angel/Angelus, my opinion has always been that it's really everyone else, particularly Buffy, who wants to believe they are 2 different people. In Doppelgangland, Angel tries to tell her as much:

Willow: It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

Buffy: Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality has nothing to do with the person it was.

Angel: Well, actually... (gets a look from Buffy) That's a good point.

:-D

[elisi]

I rather like S4 - I like the epic-ness of it and that they dared to think so big. Some of it didn't work, but I'm able to shrug tha toff fairly easily. (Oh - and I couldn't stand Jasmine. My least favourite Buffy verse character ever. But I liked the concept.)

Now about Angel/Angelus...

it's really everyone else, particularly Buffy, who wants to believe they are 2 different people.
Now I used to think so too - and I still think that Buffy very much tried to seperate the two in her head. But as far as I can tell, Angel worked very hard to distance himself from his dark side. (See the bit from 'Guise Will Be Guise' that I quoted above). The dark side is there - all the time - but he fights very hard to keep it down. Hence the two names. (I'm working on this giant essay thing where I'll go into lots more detail.)

[copykween.livejournal.com]

Hmm, reading some of these other comments has made me think a bit. I hope this makes sense, but I get all muddled thinking about it all!

I've often thought the whole "only Angelus can remember the Beast" thing was the result of an implanted fake memory, as opposed to a real memory that remained in Angelus's head following a dimensional mind-wipe. It would have been a lot easier to implant one bogus memory and then instruct The Beast to use Angelus' name to sort of get the ball rolling. So basically I agree with your theory...that it was all a big, elaborate scheme designed to get them to remove Angel's soul. Once the gang realized it was all a wild goose chase - too late! Soul already went bye-bye!

I wonder if the reason Jasmine was so gung-ho about releasing Angelus was because she knew he'd go after the people he loved the most FIRST. So then, naturally, he would end up taking Connor out. That would eliminate the only person on Earth who could actually kill her. Other than that, I've got nothing! :)

[elisi]

That would eliminate the only person on Earth who could actually kill her. Other than that, I've got nothing! :)
HOLY CRAP! That is genius! Although she was adamant that Cordy should be kept alive... ::thinks:: But then even Connor was worried about leaving Cordy alone with Jasmine. But that is the best theory I've ever heard!

Oh - or maybe she wanted Connor to kill Angel, but knew he'd only do it if he was Angelus (and she nearly succeeded in 'Orpheus').

Yay - I love this stuff. :)

[girlpire.livejournal.com]

that's such a neat way to explain it! i am humbled by your retcon skills. :)

[elisi]

Hee! Thank you! :) I love it when I discover a simple explanation for an awkward problem.

[lmbossy.livejournal.com]

love the new layout - it's really bright and sunny :)

Angel/Angelus thoughts make sense - I definitely agree with "nothing is as it seems" ... it was one of the key points of the season that you never really knew what was going on, and even when we were told, it was still uncertain as to what was the truth

I'm prone to believe that the difference between Angel and Angelus comes down to how he got his soul - both Spike and Darla reacted differently, and didn't change greatly with or without their souls (aside from the gut-wrenching guilt) ... however gypsy curses are tricky things and I wouldn't be surprised if by pushing his soul back into his body, they forced the parts of him that made up Angelus (and Liam to a certain extent) out.
I think this is closer to _peasant's theory B, but personally I think it's more like Angel is a cut-down, but shinier version of Angelus.
Basis for it: in the soul restoration spell, you have the line "Gods, bind him. Cast his heart from the evil realm" - I think this effectively binds the Angelus part of his personality, and locks it away from his conscious mind, preventing him from being able to revel in it as Darla did when she first came back as human. There's then the part "Return to the body what distinguishes Man from the beast!", however I think this can only be done after "Angelus" has been bound.

[elisi]

love the new layout - it's really bright and sunny :)
Thanks! I felt like changing to something more summery. :)

Angel/Angelus thoughts make sense - I definitely agree with "nothing is as it seems"
It's fun to speculate, and I like it when stuff makes sense. :)

in the soul restoration spell, you have the line "Gods, bind him. Cast his heart from the evil realm" - I think this effectively binds the Angelus part of his personality
Oooh that's good! Must think about that more. :)

[deird1]

Oh...

You're right. That does kinda make sense...

[elisi]

*grins*

I still remember how clever I felt when I first wrote it!

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

That is the best fanwank of an explanation I've ever seen. :)

(Course, S4 has a bunch of fanwankish retconning so it's fitting.)

[elisi]

That is the best fanwank of an explanation I've ever seen. :)
*is very proud*

Course, S4 has a bunch of fanwankish retconning so it's fitting.
Rather... I like S4 though. One day yhlee will un-flock her posts and you can read some of the best meta ever!

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Just reading this while going through some of gabrielleabelle's old posts.

For me, I've always thought Cordy wanted Angelus around to keep everyone distracted. Hey guys, look over here! So they wouldn't notice she was pregnant. But once Jasmine is born and can put everyone under her thrall, she wants Angel there because he's a useful warrior for her cause. Connor and Angel become her left and right fist (until Fred steals them away). So really, Jasmine wanted her PTB Champion to still be hers, but she knew Angel wouldn't let her come into being (1. Would essentially kill Cordy - 2. Traumatize Connor - 3. Destroy free will of mankind) so she created an elaborate manipulation to keep him dangling on her string until she could remove his free will.

[elisi]

Yes, that does seem like the best explanation. One problem is that S4 is so dense, that it's tricky to unravel everything.

But thank you lots for reading & commenting! It's muchly appreciated!