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A teeny, tiny thought from 'Touched'
Actually I'm not sure why I'm posting this, since I'm sure everyone else figured this out straight away and I'm just very slow and stupid... but since I have a nasty cold that makes my brain function as badly as a lame snail's I'll write it down anyway.
There was one thing that used to bother me about the Buffy/Spike conversation in 'Touched', since I have this thing about applying logic to everything (a bad, bad thing in the Joss-verse, I know!). It was this line:
SPIKE: "This'll change your tune. I came here 'cause I got something to tell you. You were right. Caleb is trying to protect something from you. And I think you were spot on all the way. I think it's at the vineyard. So? You were right. Buffy?"
I thought: But he wasn't there when she did her big speech and wanted to go to the vineyard. And nobody told him *why* they threw Buffy out when he came back... so how did he know? Then of course I had my *duh* moment and realised that of course she had discussed it with him first, before she told the others.
It also sheds more light on Buffy's conversation with Giles:
BUFFY: "You sent away the one person that's been watching my back — again."
GILES: "We're all watching your back."
BUFFY: "Funny... that's not really what it feels like."
When she later unveils her 'lets-go-back-to-the-vineyard' plan, she knows that Spike would have backed her up no matter what. As it is, she has no one to 'watch her back', just as she said.
(Ok, can someone please tell me if this is really, really stupid, because if it is, I'll just delete it!)
There was one thing that used to bother me about the Buffy/Spike conversation in 'Touched', since I have this thing about applying logic to everything (a bad, bad thing in the Joss-verse, I know!). It was this line:
SPIKE: "This'll change your tune. I came here 'cause I got something to tell you. You were right. Caleb is trying to protect something from you. And I think you were spot on all the way. I think it's at the vineyard. So? You were right. Buffy?"
I thought: But he wasn't there when she did her big speech and wanted to go to the vineyard. And nobody told him *why* they threw Buffy out when he came back... so how did he know? Then of course I had my *duh* moment and realised that of course she had discussed it with him first, before she told the others.
It also sheds more light on Buffy's conversation with Giles:
BUFFY: "You sent away the one person that's been watching my back — again."
GILES: "We're all watching your back."
BUFFY: "Funny... that's not really what it feels like."
When she later unveils her 'lets-go-back-to-the-vineyard' plan, she knows that Spike would have backed her up no matter what. As it is, she has no one to 'watch her back', just as she said.
(Ok, can someone please tell me if this is really, really stupid, because if it is, I'll just delete it!)
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It does rather... I was going to comment on one of your posts and offer my sympathies.
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Your way works too, I guess.
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That is of course quite possible! The way he talked about it, he just seemed to know exactly what her plan had been...
*sniffles*
I guess I shouldn't post when my brain feels like it's made out of cotton wool.
And yay! You're commenting!:)
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Hope you're feeling better soon, Elisabeth.
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I'm sorry you're feeling lousy, elisi. Get lots of rest (if possible) and feel better soon.
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And I'm getting along... at least the weather is nice! :)
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Yes, it's hard to know from this whether Spike is completely out of the loop or completely in the loop. I'd have to watch it again...
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Hey - we could watch it again...
(And I really like your icon!)
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Aren't they great icons? I found them on
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I've been trying to ignore
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That is a familiar tune I sing often!
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I thought: But he wasn't there when she did her big speech and wanted to go to the vineyard. And nobody told him *why* they threw Buffy out when he came back... so how did he know?
I remember bringing this up on the Soulful Spike Society board very soon after "Touched" aired, although I think it took two or three viewings before my brain snagged on that point. To me, Spike's vindication of Buffy's suspicions were never made any sense for the reason you mentioned - he'd already left with Andrew on his Mission mission when Buffy had her epiphany about TF wanting to divert their attention from the winery because that's where It was protecting something that would benefit Buffy if she got ahold of it. But I never managed to fanwank it into making some kind of sense like you did. I just wrote it off to sloppy writing.
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It also sheds more light on Buffy's conversation with Giles:
On second thought, this fanwank doesn't work for me. Buffy didn't have her epiphany about TF protecting something of value at the vineyard until her encounter with Caleb at the HS when he suggested that their immediate threat came from the seal. From this Buffy shrewdly deduced that TF was deliberately using the seal as a diversion from the real threat at the vineyard. But by the time that Buffy got home from the HS after her encounter there with Caleb, she found Spike already dispatched on his mission by Giles. So, she had no opportunity to confide her suspisions to Spike before telling everyone else at the meeting that ended in mutiny and exile.
When Spike returned and found out that Buffy had left, he deduced that it hadn't been voluntary but he didn't stick around to get the details - he had no way of knowing that they'd revolted because she'd instisted that they go back into the vineyard.... So, him finding Buffy and telling her that she was right about her suspicions etc... no way he could have known.
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I looked through the script for 'Empty Places' a few days ago and noticed the same thing too. *sigh* The only way I can get it to make sense, is if she had a 'hunch' that she discussed with Spike, and then it crystallized when she met Caleb... or maybe she used the confrontation with Caleb as a excuse to try out her theory?
Meh. I love S7, but the writing does leave me frustrated now and again. Thank you so much for commenting though, it was a lovely surprise. :)
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And you want to know what's funny? When I mentioned in one of my comments that I'd brought up the inconsistency in "Touched" on the board shortly after the episode originally aired, I spelled out "Soulful Spike Society" for you rather than just abbreviating it as the "S3" so you would know what I was talking about.
Sheesh, how oblivious am I?
Anyway, Well Met. Good to see you. I'm very pleased you're you.
Hope you have a nice visit with the parents.
deborah
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Eep? I'm not a S'cubie... I'm familiar with the place (so I *do* know the S3 abbrevation) and I'm slowly working my way through all the various reviews - and I'm a friend of
Hopefully you'll like me well enough just for me? And I'm so very thrilled to know that you've been reading 'Maybe Someday' - I'm always surprised when people read what I've written. ;)
Well, I must run, but it was nice meeting you - please come by again. And thank you for the good wishes.
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I've only been an infrequent visitor to the S3 in the last year so I'm quite out of touch there, but I do recall a S'cubie named Elisabeth. So, when I read your warm greeting, then saw that your name is Elisabeth and noticed that you have a link to the S3 on your Journal, I added one and one and one and got - red in the face. I felt awful thinking (mistaken identity) you had recognized me but I hadn't recognized you, and leapt to the wrong conclusion.
Can we just forget that I ever made an ass out of myself here?
And Wendy, of course. Please tell her hello for me...I wonder if she's heard about our Patti...
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The internet is so much better for these things though - it's much worse in RL when you think you see someone you know and you jump up and down and shout their name and then it's a stranger... here at least all the jumping and shouting is very quiet! And Elisabeth is not a common spelling, so it was quite natural for you to assume that I was your S3 friend. I'm afraid I'm just get very pleased when a lurker de-lurks! :)
Oh, and yes Wendy heard about Patti - she was very shocked and upset... from what I've heard Patti was a very special person.
Anyway, it's lovely to get to know you! :)