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DW 4.13 and TheDoctorDonna
OK, I have not read any reviews. I have no idea what fandom thinks (although I can certainly make an educated guess!). I’ve just been mulling over the episode in my head, and these are my thoughts (so far). I’ll do this (mostly) character by character, since I like to track development. (I loved it btw. Please do not harsh my squee, or my mourning.)
Martha
First of all she was brilliant, of course, and Rose thought so too (which was a nice mirror to the last ep), but not just that - her role was both the same and the exact opposite of last year’s!
Doctor: As if I would ask her to kill.
*
Martha: I told a story, that's all. No weapons, just words.
And this time she was ready to destroy the entire world to save the universe with a LOT of weapons... But again she was alone.
Of course UNIT is shown in a less than flattering light, and she’ll probably join Torchwood now. (Torchwood might be messed up, and oversexed, but at least they don’t plan to destroy the planet. Well not on purpose anyway. ;) Also we might see more of Tom - OMG we could have another wedding!!!!11!) Will miss the UNIT connection though, I liked that.
Sarah Jane
I found it interesting that it was Sarah Jane (who stays away from the Torchwood lot because of all the guns) who had the [far more dangerous than guns] warp star! And I loved the moment where Davros recognised her, obviously. :)
Jack
Honestly there’s not a lot to say, I just adored him - he’s so happy when he’s with the Doctor (the meta reason of course being that it’s the Doctor who gets all the angst). Jack with giant guns is also always a plus. Love the scene with him, Rose and the Doctor when first stepping out of the TARDIS - the original team, back together. And his reaction to the three Doctors... Also every Donna/Jack interaction was a *scream* (no seriously. It was pure crack! Every fic come true.). *draws hearts*
Mickey
I’ve heard rumours that Mickey might join Torchwood too, and from the looks of the scene with the three of them walking away together this looks like a distinct possibility. I wasn’t sure about it, to be honest, but after this ep I think I might be in favour. Mickey isn’t an idiot - as far as I remember he was always handy with computers; his AU self was the leader of an underground army; and in the AU he lived in a world ahead of this one (where, one presumes, he worked for Torchwood). So, he might just be able to have a go at Tosh’s job. (Or Suzie's? He's certainly good with weapons.) And, almost more importantly, he is someone who remembers Jack from before his immortal days, and who is (still) utterly underawed by Jack’s charisma. I can see him as the levelheaded one, forever taking Jack down a peg or two, being immune to the usual charm offences!
Also, this might mean actual DW/TW crossovers. *prays*
Rose
I almost wrote about Rose several times last week before the finale, because (despite how good it was to see her) she felt... I don’t know... off? It’s like the opposite of River (and I love this season for giving us that mirror) - River didn’t quite fit, because the S4 Doctor wasn’t ‘her’ Doctor. Her Doctor is still to come. Likewise Rose - her Doctor was the S1-S2 Doctor, and he was so much younger then... (to borrow one of River’s lines) - the Doctor we have now is older, and darker, and Rose doesn’t *fit* into his current world, the same way that River doesn’t.
And I think he knew that. After that first joyous (near-fatal) run, he is very cautious. Like he is waiting for the other shoe to drop. (And not just because apparently the world is about to end.)
That said, I *adore* the solution. It’s so poignantly bittersweet - like Spike or Angel shanshuing and finally getting Buffy, but at the expense of so many other things. (And we saw in IWRY how Angel - at least at that time - couldn’t cope.) I’m sure a lot of people hate it, but in my book it’s brilliant and RTD should be crowned with some sort of fannish award for having his cake and eating it. And - I’m not ashamed to admit - Rose & half-human!Doctor fic is something I’ve been indulging (/drowning) in for the last few days (and I have a bunny of my own too. Will write it asap, trust me), my favourite being this one: And New Journeys. Just utterly perfect characterisation! *loves* Also it's very short, so you ABSOLUTELY have time to read it! (I should probably add that I’m not really a Rose/Ten ‘shipper. Except this new couple is making me all hand-wavy happy!) If you want more, just to go recent stories on the Teaspoon and indulge! :) Seriously, the possiblities are *endless* - angst in all shades (Rose can’t love the new Doctor/the Doctor gets run over by a bus/Rose gets run over by a bus...); ‘happily ever after’s where they have lots of tiembabies and domesticity; adventure where he gets them a spaceship; and lots and lots of lots of smut for those so inclined - ‘cause the new Doctor is obviously not a-sexual... *g* The Ten/Rose story was an epic love story, and now all the Ten/Rose ‘shippers have their own little AU to play in forever, whilst the ‘real’ Doctor continues onwards, lonely and angsty as ever. (Also, of course, I’m figuring that there are countless Doctor/Rose/Doctor fics being written right now. RTD sure knows his fans...)
You know what it’s like? It’s like Buffy at the edge of the crater of Sunnydale - her whole life in front of her bursting with possiblities, but at a cost.
Dalek Caan
Wow. I never knew a Dalek could sound so spiteful. His ‘f*ck-you’ to Davros was spectacular. And, of course, it was in character. The last of the Cult of Skaro:
THE DOCTOR: A secret order. Above and beyond the Emperor himself. Their job was to imagine. Think as the enemy thinks. Even dared to have names. All to find new ways of killing.
And the last Dalek finally saw what they were. Did it (he?) see the future, or did he make it happen - or are the two the same? (I love timey-wimey stuff!) In some ways it paralleled the other last Dalek, from S1, who also sought self-destruction out of disgust. Although that was disgust at having changed to less than pure Dalek - Caan was disgusted with the race itself.
Just excellent stuff. (And where’s the Caan/Drusilla fic, eh?)
TheDoctorDonna
*deep breath* Dunno if I can do this. Even my *icon* is making me tear up. Let me begin with the Doctor.
That moment in the TARDIS, before they go out to meet Davros, was just... oh so wonderful. They way he told them all they were ‘brilliant’ (evoking Nine’s words to Rose of course, about how she’d been ‘fantastic’), and the ‘Blimey’ were note-perfect in showing just how apprehensive the Doctor was... this could be it. The end. He knew what he was up against, but had - as usual - no weapons. And this time not even a plan.
And then there was the heartbeat and Donna getting locked in and eeeee! And the Doctor was so desperate!
Loved when he was ‘faced with himself’ - all his ‘Children of Time’ turned into warriors (seriously, is there a New Who Companion - except for Donna - who hasn’t worked for Torchwood (/UNIT)?). There is of course the fact that they are all *human*, and do not have the Doctor’s talents or abilities. They are bound by time and space, and have to work with what they have. Nevertheless, it was chilling - and yet uplifting. Yes, it was violent, but also full of love and selflessness. Martha was ready to destroy Earth (and herself) to save the rest of the universe, Jack (and Sarah Jane and Mickey and Jackie) ready to die for the same thing. It’s very human, I think - that same-old monster/hero duality that the show keeps exploring.
Davros chided the Doctor for letting so many die in his name, and I think that’s the Doctor’s curse (as he said himself in ‘School Reunion’) - if he could, he would die (he told them he’d die in Donna’s place, and I think he absolutely meant that), but he keeps having to live on - and on. Poor Doctor. (Also people keep *deliberately* sacrificing themselves for him - like River - because the Doctor is needed.)
Then we get that wonderful scene with the TARDIS falling to pieces and Donna and the hand and growing a new Doctor. Donna’s “You’re naked” just cracks me up every time I think of it - it’s the *way* she says it! ::adores:: (Also of course I’m sure millions of fangirls were squeeing at levels that only bats could hear! I dare not think how many unexpected!Naked!Ten macros there will be by now...)
Anyway, I love the whole concept of this - the way it makes use of the hand, of the regeneration energy, of Donna... it all ties together *beautifully*.
Of course the interaction between the two characters is just phenomenal! And the Doctor speaking with Donna’s voice (such a nice callback to ‘Midnight’) is just... I have no words. Except maybe ‘brilliant’! And then he builds a weapon...
The scene where the TARDIS shows up again, the door opening to reveal the Doctor (just like in Pompeii) is just awesome! The whole Doctor-as-God thing gets taken way beyond the pale in this ep of course (he’s the Trinity! That’s... rich, coming from an atheist. And people thought Tinkerbell!Jesus!Doctor was bad.) (I’m not saying it was bad btw, and I have nothing against glowy!Doctor. But then I do believe in God, and find it interesting when stories (in whatever small way) reflect on that oldest, eternal truth.)
Moving on - didn’t mean to get all wrapped up in theology! Then we get Donna being brilliant, and the story turns into a comedy. And she just shines - so happy, and bright, and fantastic, and I just want to pause it there.
Except it’s not that simple, and New!Doctor does what Original!Doctor can’t/won’t and destroys the Daleks. After ‘The Stolen Earth’ I wondered how they were going to deal with that - with the Doctor possibly having to repeat his actions from the Time War. We saw him refuse in ‘Parting of the Ways’, and here the twist is wonderful. I think it might be the Donna-ness that makes the difference, because it calls back to his Companions being ready to fight for him. Instead he takes action on his own behalf... there’s a lot wrapped up in that, and I think it might take me a while to unravel.
Still, then we have the most BRILLIANT thing of all - physically pulling Earth back home. I LOVE this show! And everyone helping to pilot... (the TARDIS being built to have 6 people steering is just a fabulous revelation - so obvious that it makes me want to slap my head, and also so terribly, awfully poignant. *sniff*).
Then one after one they all leave. One thing that struck me most forcefully about the Bad Wolf Bay scene was how it fitted with the original - how they are not just the Doctor’s farewells to Rose, but also bookend his time with Donna.
That last scene in the TARDIS just broke my heart - partly because it is such a perfect mirror of the end of S3. Donna’s chatter is precisely like the Doctor’s was then, and the Doctor’s stillness now is just like Martha’s - wishing he could pretend, but knowing that it’s not possible.
Maybe the worst thing is that she *does* understand. Her ‘Yeah’ is so shattering because of that - she sees the problem as clearly as he, and yet she tries to fight, so desperate not to lose herself - and it just KILLS me.
I said in my initial reaction that RTD is more evil than Joss, and I think that’s true. I never thought any fate could be worse than Fred’s, but I was wrong. There was also Jamie and Zoe - way back with the 2nd Doctor - who had their minds wiped of all adventures (although apparently they still recalled *meeting* the Doctor). But in all those instances the tragedy was from outside causes (looking at the stories from *inside* the verses here, not taking into account the writer’s hand). Fred died because Knox chose her. Jamie and Zoe were mindwiped by the Timelords, who also exiled the Doctor. Outside factors, destroying their stories. But Donna’s story is different. We saw it play out in miniature in ‘The Doctor’s Daughter’:
Doctor: Jenny was the reason for the TARDIS bringing us here. It just got here too soon, which then created Jenny in the first place. Paradox. An endless paradox.
The *reason* Donna came into the Doctor’s life, was so that she could help save the universe, become TheDoctorDonna. But in fulfilling that destiny she had to die. Another heartbreaking eternal loop - if not for her ending, her destiny, the Doctor would never have met her! I was going to say something about it being better to have loved and lost, but then realised that that’s not it... or not all of it. The Doctor loved and lost (as always), but Donna (as far as she knows) never loved at all.
The terrible thing for us of course being that she can never return! They’ve written themselves into a corner, and it is such a crying shame, because the DoctorDonna team was the most amazing TARDIS team. *shakes fist a TPTB* (Weeeeeell, until they decide to find a way around it. I do love sci-fi!)
The part where he says goodbye and she barely glances at him makes me choke even as I write - this was probably his best friend for years (not very familar with Old Who, so won’t presume that she was better than any older ones). The woman who took one look at him at the end of Midnight and just hugged him - and that he could tell his story to.
The goodbye to Wilfrid is similarly heartbreaking.
Doctor: Still that’s fine. I’m fine.
Because what I hear in my head is this, from ‘Forest of the Dead’:
Donna: Are you all right?
Doctor: I'm always all right.
Donna: Is "all right" special Time Lord code for... "really not all right at all"?
Doctor: Why?
Donna: Cos I'm "all right", too.
And now I’ve got tears in my eyes *again*!
But... there are a couple of things that make it bearable.
1) I think - and I don’t care if we never see it, in my head it happens - that one day the Doctor will run across Lee (her husband from the AU in the Library) and somehow find a way of reuniting them. (Possibly mind-wiping Lee so he can’t accidentally tell her how they first met.) But, she’d get her happy ending.
ETA: Read THIS POST! OMG! *flails*
2) Donna was - as RTD said in the Confidential - always ‘ordinary’. Both feet planted firmly on the ground, and just... human. We can relate to Donna because Donna is us. And that, in a way, is the beauty of her tragedy. If Donna is us, then we are Donna - we all have untapped potential, we could all be brilliant: Just dare to hope that maybe the world would listen to you, that you have something worthwhile to contribute - even if you are just a temp from Chiswick!
Maybe especially if that’s what you are...
(OK, now I’m about to start singing the Selfesteem Song from ‘Smile Time’, so I figure you get my point. But I think Donna might do good - esp if her mum finally starts believing in her!)
And finally.
River: When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run for ever. Everybody knows that everybody dies, and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever, for one moment accepts it.
***
Misc. Notes:
- It occurs to me that there is a parallel of sorts in Torchwood’s ‘Adam’: Jack sacrificing his last happy memory of Gray and his father to get rid of Adam for good. It is a rather tenuous link though.
- Speaking of Torchwood, Tosh saving the day was perfect. She did good! *sniff*
- My favourite part of ‘Earth’s Celebrations’ (one of my favourite parts, full stop, it *totally* made me squee!) was when the TARDIS landed on Earth, and there were church bells ringing. It’s just such a quintessential English thing that it makes me want to hug my show to tiny, bitty pieces... To those wondering what I’m on about, a quote from ‘The Nine Taylors’ by Dorothy L. Sayers:
‘The art of change ringing is peculiar to the English, and, like most English peculiarities, unintelligible to the rest of the world. To the musical Belgian, for example, it appears that the proper thing to do with a carefully tuned ring of bells is to play a tune upon it. By the English campanologist, the playing tunes is considered to be a childish game, only fit for foreigners; the proper use of bells is to work out mathematical permutations and combinations.’
- The (ever watchful) Joss-verse fan in me detected two points when ‘Journey’s End’ echoed Joss shows. It was probably complete co-incidences, but I like the associations.
When the Doctor spoke of Donna:
“And for one moment, one shining moment, she was the most important woman in the whole wide universe”
it reminded me of Angel’s speech:
“We can't bring down the senior partners, but for one bright, shining moment, we can show them that they don't own us. You need to decide for yourselves if that's worth dying for.”
And later, talking to Wilf about the rain:
“Ah - you’ll have quite a bit of this. Atmospheric disturbance. Still it’ll pass.”
made me think of Mal’s words at the very end of ‘Serenity’ (the movie):
“Storm's getting worse. We'll pass through it soon enough.”
***
What an episode. I’m not sure that I *will* go read lots of other reviews now... I feel like just curling up in my own little happy corner with the show I love (that broke my heart). Except there will me meta heavy fic at some point. Oh yes! *g*
Martha
First of all she was brilliant, of course, and Rose thought so too (which was a nice mirror to the last ep), but not just that - her role was both the same and the exact opposite of last year’s!
Doctor: As if I would ask her to kill.
*
Martha: I told a story, that's all. No weapons, just words.
And this time she was ready to destroy the entire world to save the universe with a LOT of weapons... But again she was alone.
Of course UNIT is shown in a less than flattering light, and she’ll probably join Torchwood now. (Torchwood might be messed up, and oversexed, but at least they don’t plan to destroy the planet. Well not on purpose anyway. ;) Also we might see more of Tom - OMG we could have another wedding!!!!11!) Will miss the UNIT connection though, I liked that.
Sarah Jane
I found it interesting that it was Sarah Jane (who stays away from the Torchwood lot because of all the guns) who had the [far more dangerous than guns] warp star! And I loved the moment where Davros recognised her, obviously. :)
Jack
Honestly there’s not a lot to say, I just adored him - he’s so happy when he’s with the Doctor (the meta reason of course being that it’s the Doctor who gets all the angst). Jack with giant guns is also always a plus. Love the scene with him, Rose and the Doctor when first stepping out of the TARDIS - the original team, back together. And his reaction to the three Doctors... Also every Donna/Jack interaction was a *scream* (no seriously. It was pure crack! Every fic come true.). *draws hearts*
Mickey
I’ve heard rumours that Mickey might join Torchwood too, and from the looks of the scene with the three of them walking away together this looks like a distinct possibility. I wasn’t sure about it, to be honest, but after this ep I think I might be in favour. Mickey isn’t an idiot - as far as I remember he was always handy with computers; his AU self was the leader of an underground army; and in the AU he lived in a world ahead of this one (where, one presumes, he worked for Torchwood). So, he might just be able to have a go at Tosh’s job. (Or Suzie's? He's certainly good with weapons.) And, almost more importantly, he is someone who remembers Jack from before his immortal days, and who is (still) utterly underawed by Jack’s charisma. I can see him as the levelheaded one, forever taking Jack down a peg or two, being immune to the usual charm offences!
Also, this might mean actual DW/TW crossovers. *prays*
Rose
I almost wrote about Rose several times last week before the finale, because (despite how good it was to see her) she felt... I don’t know... off? It’s like the opposite of River (and I love this season for giving us that mirror) - River didn’t quite fit, because the S4 Doctor wasn’t ‘her’ Doctor. Her Doctor is still to come. Likewise Rose - her Doctor was the S1-S2 Doctor, and he was so much younger then... (to borrow one of River’s lines) - the Doctor we have now is older, and darker, and Rose doesn’t *fit* into his current world, the same way that River doesn’t.
And I think he knew that. After that first joyous (near-fatal) run, he is very cautious. Like he is waiting for the other shoe to drop. (And not just because apparently the world is about to end.)
That said, I *adore* the solution. It’s so poignantly bittersweet - like Spike or Angel shanshuing and finally getting Buffy, but at the expense of so many other things. (And we saw in IWRY how Angel - at least at that time - couldn’t cope.) I’m sure a lot of people hate it, but in my book it’s brilliant and RTD should be crowned with some sort of fannish award for having his cake and eating it. And - I’m not ashamed to admit - Rose & half-human!Doctor fic is something I’ve been indulging (/drowning) in for the last few days (and I have a bunny of my own too. Will write it asap, trust me), my favourite being this one: And New Journeys. Just utterly perfect characterisation! *loves* Also it's very short, so you ABSOLUTELY have time to read it! (I should probably add that I’m not really a Rose/Ten ‘shipper. Except this new couple is making me all hand-wavy happy!) If you want more, just to go recent stories on the Teaspoon and indulge! :) Seriously, the possiblities are *endless* - angst in all shades (Rose can’t love the new Doctor/the Doctor gets run over by a bus/Rose gets run over by a bus...); ‘happily ever after’s where they have lots of tiembabies and domesticity; adventure where he gets them a spaceship; and lots and lots of lots of smut for those so inclined - ‘cause the new Doctor is obviously not a-sexual... *g* The Ten/Rose story was an epic love story, and now all the Ten/Rose ‘shippers have their own little AU to play in forever, whilst the ‘real’ Doctor continues onwards, lonely and angsty as ever. (Also, of course, I’m figuring that there are countless Doctor/Rose/Doctor fics being written right now. RTD sure knows his fans...)
You know what it’s like? It’s like Buffy at the edge of the crater of Sunnydale - her whole life in front of her bursting with possiblities, but at a cost.
Dalek Caan
Wow. I never knew a Dalek could sound so spiteful. His ‘f*ck-you’ to Davros was spectacular. And, of course, it was in character. The last of the Cult of Skaro:
THE DOCTOR: A secret order. Above and beyond the Emperor himself. Their job was to imagine. Think as the enemy thinks. Even dared to have names. All to find new ways of killing.
And the last Dalek finally saw what they were. Did it (he?) see the future, or did he make it happen - or are the two the same? (I love timey-wimey stuff!) In some ways it paralleled the other last Dalek, from S1, who also sought self-destruction out of disgust. Although that was disgust at having changed to less than pure Dalek - Caan was disgusted with the race itself.
Just excellent stuff. (And where’s the Caan/Drusilla fic, eh?)
TheDoctorDonna
*deep breath* Dunno if I can do this. Even my *icon* is making me tear up. Let me begin with the Doctor.
That moment in the TARDIS, before they go out to meet Davros, was just... oh so wonderful. They way he told them all they were ‘brilliant’ (evoking Nine’s words to Rose of course, about how she’d been ‘fantastic’), and the ‘Blimey’ were note-perfect in showing just how apprehensive the Doctor was... this could be it. The end. He knew what he was up against, but had - as usual - no weapons. And this time not even a plan.
And then there was the heartbeat and Donna getting locked in and eeeee! And the Doctor was so desperate!
Loved when he was ‘faced with himself’ - all his ‘Children of Time’ turned into warriors (seriously, is there a New Who Companion - except for Donna - who hasn’t worked for Torchwood (/UNIT)?). There is of course the fact that they are all *human*, and do not have the Doctor’s talents or abilities. They are bound by time and space, and have to work with what they have. Nevertheless, it was chilling - and yet uplifting. Yes, it was violent, but also full of love and selflessness. Martha was ready to destroy Earth (and herself) to save the rest of the universe, Jack (and Sarah Jane and Mickey and Jackie) ready to die for the same thing. It’s very human, I think - that same-old monster/hero duality that the show keeps exploring.
Davros chided the Doctor for letting so many die in his name, and I think that’s the Doctor’s curse (as he said himself in ‘School Reunion’) - if he could, he would die (he told them he’d die in Donna’s place, and I think he absolutely meant that), but he keeps having to live on - and on. Poor Doctor. (Also people keep *deliberately* sacrificing themselves for him - like River - because the Doctor is needed.)
Then we get that wonderful scene with the TARDIS falling to pieces and Donna and the hand and growing a new Doctor. Donna’s “You’re naked” just cracks me up every time I think of it - it’s the *way* she says it! ::adores:: (Also of course I’m sure millions of fangirls were squeeing at levels that only bats could hear! I dare not think how many unexpected!Naked!Ten macros there will be by now...)
Anyway, I love the whole concept of this - the way it makes use of the hand, of the regeneration energy, of Donna... it all ties together *beautifully*.
Of course the interaction between the two characters is just phenomenal! And the Doctor speaking with Donna’s voice (such a nice callback to ‘Midnight’) is just... I have no words. Except maybe ‘brilliant’! And then he builds a weapon...
The scene where the TARDIS shows up again, the door opening to reveal the Doctor (just like in Pompeii) is just awesome! The whole Doctor-as-God thing gets taken way beyond the pale in this ep of course (he’s the Trinity! That’s... rich, coming from an atheist. And people thought Tinkerbell!Jesus!Doctor was bad.) (I’m not saying it was bad btw, and I have nothing against glowy!Doctor. But then I do believe in God, and find it interesting when stories (in whatever small way) reflect on that oldest, eternal truth.)
Moving on - didn’t mean to get all wrapped up in theology! Then we get Donna being brilliant, and the story turns into a comedy. And she just shines - so happy, and bright, and fantastic, and I just want to pause it there.
Except it’s not that simple, and New!Doctor does what Original!Doctor can’t/won’t and destroys the Daleks. After ‘The Stolen Earth’ I wondered how they were going to deal with that - with the Doctor possibly having to repeat his actions from the Time War. We saw him refuse in ‘Parting of the Ways’, and here the twist is wonderful. I think it might be the Donna-ness that makes the difference, because it calls back to his Companions being ready to fight for him. Instead he takes action on his own behalf... there’s a lot wrapped up in that, and I think it might take me a while to unravel.
Still, then we have the most BRILLIANT thing of all - physically pulling Earth back home. I LOVE this show! And everyone helping to pilot... (the TARDIS being built to have 6 people steering is just a fabulous revelation - so obvious that it makes me want to slap my head, and also so terribly, awfully poignant. *sniff*).
Then one after one they all leave. One thing that struck me most forcefully about the Bad Wolf Bay scene was how it fitted with the original - how they are not just the Doctor’s farewells to Rose, but also bookend his time with Donna.
That last scene in the TARDIS just broke my heart - partly because it is such a perfect mirror of the end of S3. Donna’s chatter is precisely like the Doctor’s was then, and the Doctor’s stillness now is just like Martha’s - wishing he could pretend, but knowing that it’s not possible.
Maybe the worst thing is that she *does* understand. Her ‘Yeah’ is so shattering because of that - she sees the problem as clearly as he, and yet she tries to fight, so desperate not to lose herself - and it just KILLS me.
I said in my initial reaction that RTD is more evil than Joss, and I think that’s true. I never thought any fate could be worse than Fred’s, but I was wrong. There was also Jamie and Zoe - way back with the 2nd Doctor - who had their minds wiped of all adventures (although apparently they still recalled *meeting* the Doctor). But in all those instances the tragedy was from outside causes (looking at the stories from *inside* the verses here, not taking into account the writer’s hand). Fred died because Knox chose her. Jamie and Zoe were mindwiped by the Timelords, who also exiled the Doctor. Outside factors, destroying their stories. But Donna’s story is different. We saw it play out in miniature in ‘The Doctor’s Daughter’:
Doctor: Jenny was the reason for the TARDIS bringing us here. It just got here too soon, which then created Jenny in the first place. Paradox. An endless paradox.
The *reason* Donna came into the Doctor’s life, was so that she could help save the universe, become TheDoctorDonna. But in fulfilling that destiny she had to die. Another heartbreaking eternal loop - if not for her ending, her destiny, the Doctor would never have met her! I was going to say something about it being better to have loved and lost, but then realised that that’s not it... or not all of it. The Doctor loved and lost (as always), but Donna (as far as she knows) never loved at all.
The terrible thing for us of course being that she can never return! They’ve written themselves into a corner, and it is such a crying shame, because the DoctorDonna team was the most amazing TARDIS team. *shakes fist a TPTB* (Weeeeeell, until they decide to find a way around it. I do love sci-fi!)
The part where he says goodbye and she barely glances at him makes me choke even as I write - this was probably his best friend for years (not very familar with Old Who, so won’t presume that she was better than any older ones). The woman who took one look at him at the end of Midnight and just hugged him - and that he could tell his story to.
The goodbye to Wilfrid is similarly heartbreaking.
Doctor: Still that’s fine. I’m fine.
Because what I hear in my head is this, from ‘Forest of the Dead’:
Donna: Are you all right?
Doctor: I'm always all right.
Donna: Is "all right" special Time Lord code for... "really not all right at all"?
Doctor: Why?
Donna: Cos I'm "all right", too.
And now I’ve got tears in my eyes *again*!
But... there are a couple of things that make it bearable.
1) I think - and I don’t care if we never see it, in my head it happens - that one day the Doctor will run across Lee (her husband from the AU in the Library) and somehow find a way of reuniting them. (Possibly mind-wiping Lee so he can’t accidentally tell her how they first met.) But, she’d get her happy ending.
ETA: Read THIS POST! OMG! *flails*
2) Donna was - as RTD said in the Confidential - always ‘ordinary’. Both feet planted firmly on the ground, and just... human. We can relate to Donna because Donna is us. And that, in a way, is the beauty of her tragedy. If Donna is us, then we are Donna - we all have untapped potential, we could all be brilliant: Just dare to hope that maybe the world would listen to you, that you have something worthwhile to contribute - even if you are just a temp from Chiswick!
Maybe especially if that’s what you are...
(OK, now I’m about to start singing the Selfesteem Song from ‘Smile Time’, so I figure you get my point. But I think Donna might do good - esp if her mum finally starts believing in her!)
And finally.
River: When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it will never end. But however hard you try, you can't run for ever. Everybody knows that everybody dies, and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever, for one moment accepts it.
Misc. Notes:
- It occurs to me that there is a parallel of sorts in Torchwood’s ‘Adam’: Jack sacrificing his last happy memory of Gray and his father to get rid of Adam for good. It is a rather tenuous link though.
- Speaking of Torchwood, Tosh saving the day was perfect. She did good! *sniff*
- My favourite part of ‘Earth’s Celebrations’ (one of my favourite parts, full stop, it *totally* made me squee!) was when the TARDIS landed on Earth, and there were church bells ringing. It’s just such a quintessential English thing that it makes me want to hug my show to tiny, bitty pieces... To those wondering what I’m on about, a quote from ‘The Nine Taylors’ by Dorothy L. Sayers:
‘The art of change ringing is peculiar to the English, and, like most English peculiarities, unintelligible to the rest of the world. To the musical Belgian, for example, it appears that the proper thing to do with a carefully tuned ring of bells is to play a tune upon it. By the English campanologist, the playing tunes is considered to be a childish game, only fit for foreigners; the proper use of bells is to work out mathematical permutations and combinations.’
- The (ever watchful) Joss-verse fan in me detected two points when ‘Journey’s End’ echoed Joss shows. It was probably complete co-incidences, but I like the associations.
When the Doctor spoke of Donna:
“And for one moment, one shining moment, she was the most important woman in the whole wide universe”
it reminded me of Angel’s speech:
“We can't bring down the senior partners, but for one bright, shining moment, we can show them that they don't own us. You need to decide for yourselves if that's worth dying for.”
And later, talking to Wilf about the rain:
“Ah - you’ll have quite a bit of this. Atmospheric disturbance. Still it’ll pass.”
made me think of Mal’s words at the very end of ‘Serenity’ (the movie):
“Storm's getting worse. We'll pass through it soon enough.”
What an episode. I’m not sure that I *will* go read lots of other reviews now... I feel like just curling up in my own little happy corner with the show I love (that broke my heart). Except there will me meta heavy fic at some point. Oh yes! *g*
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I will miss Donna the most. She annoyed me at first but, I came to love her because she kept him in line and was a true friend with no romantic notions, just a mate like he'd wanted. And, like you, her dismissal when he says goodbye just killed me. As did Wilf's speech.
You're absolutely right. Jack is happiest when he's with the Doctor. He just shines! (pets shiny Jack). I agree with you that Martha and Mickey would make a great addition to Torchwood and I can't wait for the crossovers!
My head goes boom when I watch this show, so I am glad that there are more level headed persons on my flist who can put my feelings into words. Thank you, Elisi.
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Oh you and me both! Not to mention that I'm writing it... I have a whole AU 'verse that keeps tugging at me... *sigh* The show is just TOO SHINY! (Oh and if you want fic recs, I have lists of the very best I've found so far here and here. *drowns again*)
I've enjoyed reading your thoughts on DW and, since I am shippy girl by heart, I was brokenhearted to see the return to Bad Wolf Bay and the fallout. The look on Ten's face before he turns and leaves just killed me ded. (And, kudos to DT for a heartbreaking performance).
It's funny, but I'm *not* a shippy girl when it comes to the Doctor (except for Doctor/Master & Doctor/TARDIS, but those ships are both... different. *g*) - still the Bad Wolf Bay scenes are soooo sad. ('Doomsday' made me cry too. Not as much as JE, but...) DT is just stunning.
I will miss Donna the most.
Same here. She should have been with him FOREVER! (There was speculation that the TARDIS would die, and she'd somehow become a new TARDIS. That might have been easier to deal with. *sniff* Still - read the post I linked to. It made me feel SO much better!)
You're absolutely right. Jack is happiest when he's with the Doctor. He just shines! (pets shiny Jack).
Of course he's not as shiny as the Doctor... *g* Seriously though, it's nice to see him happy. But I'm still wondering how I'll cope without my Jack/Ianto fix until next year!
My head goes boom when I watch this show, so I am glad that there are more level headed persons on my flist who can put my feelings into words. Thank you, Elisi.
Aw, my pleasure. And it's taken me this long to be able to actually stop crying and put things into words. My show! *clings*
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Yes, that's it exactly. And I agree that he realised. In JE Rose really does very little apart from her final scene at Bad Wolf Bay. She's there but not an intrinsic part of the action in the way that everybody else is and I never felt her emotional connection with the Doctor in the way that I used to, but I think you are right in thinking that's because he is no longer *her* Doctor.
It’s so poignantly bittersweet - like Spike or Angel shanshuing and finally getting Buffy, but at the expense of so many other things.
Complete agreement here too *g*. Unfortunately I've rather lost interest in Rose as a character otherwise I'd be devouring the fic.
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It's like Buffy and Angel in 'Chosen' (or even Five by Five) - they don't live in each other's worlds anymore.
Unfortunately I've rather lost interest in Rose as a character otherwise I'd be devouring the fic.
I'm reading it for the sake of Alt!Doctor. He is *fascinating*. (So is the way that the dynamic between them will obviously have shifted.) And I'll be writing fic, so you might be forced to read at least one story! ;)
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Thank you! Although you really should read the one I linked to - it's very short!
And yes, Real!Doctor is *terribly* compelling (I've read two fics already where Jack looks after him post the finale), and Donna fics are something I've been indulging in since before the season started! *loves Donna*
And I need more icons! Obsession is hard work!
ETA: Realise that my fic must also try to sell you on the intrinsic interest of alt!Doctor. Just you wait! *grins*
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Yes, I liked Mickey - and wondered if he and Martha were joining Jack at Torchwood.
That last few minutes, with the Drs goodbye was heartbreaking ... and his final scene .. he knows he is destined to travel alone, yet his heart(s) get touched and that solitude is sad. Maybe we can all associate with that loss in one way or another ... I don't know ... but it was beautifully written and poinanttly acted by david Tennant ... and Bernard Cribbins (It was lovely to see him in this season)
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Aw, thanks! :)
Yes, I liked Mickey - and wondered if he and Martha were joining Jack at Torchwood.
It could be interesting.
Maybe we can all associate with that loss in one way or another ... I don't know ... but it was beautifully written and poinanttly acted by david Tennant ... and Bernard Cribbins (It was lovely to see him in this season)
Yes, definitely. There's somehow not a lot to say - it's just something to be watched!
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Just thinking about Rose and her not really!happy!ending, the Doctor alone again with all his memories, Donna back to her 'real' life (which she didn't want) with no memories of how wonderful she was (and how wonderful she and the Doctor were together) - it's all just heartbreaking.
Though they were all 'fantastic', every single one. Now all I need is time to watch the whole series again, this time with no children as company.
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Same here. And I kept tearing up as I wrote. Stupid brilliant show!
Though they were all 'fantastic', every single one.
Oh weren't they just! *loves them all*
Now all I need is time to watch the whole series again, this time with no children as company.
Heh. Same here!
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It is brilliant, but you're right, a lot of people hate it. I think it's easier on people who don't think of new!Ten (or Ten II) as fake or less then Ten. But even so, Ten I is left alone which upsets people.
The terrible thing for us of course being that she can never return!
The only reason she couldn't return is if CT doesn't want to come back. *g* Fanfic has already come up with several ways and I'm sure Who's writers can come up with more. Never say never with a scifi show!
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Which is why I only hang out waaaaaaaay on the outskirts of the fandom! :)
I think it's easier on people who don't think of new!Ten (or Ten II) as fake or less then Ten.
Well he's different, but I see that as a *good* thing - something that makes him interesting. Original!Doctor & Rose I liked, but never found all that compelling. This 'new' pairing however is fascinating.
But even so, Ten I is left alone which upsets people.
But he HAS to be alone. It's the baseline of the show.
Never say never with a scifi show!
I do believe I said something similar! I just want her NOW! *is impatient*
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It'll be interesting to see all the fanfic that comes out of new!Ten and Rose. They have their own set of problems and challenges.
Sorry, that's what I get for replying while doing other things! I just hope that getting Donna back ends with her alive and remembering. To bring her back just to kill her would be terrible (and just the thing that RTD would love, I don't know about Moffat).
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In theory I do too, but I generally just need some distance before I get there. It is my instinct to look at everything in a positive light (yes, you can call me Pollyanna!), so find it hard to understand those whose raison d'etre seems to be finding fault. (I know this is a very fannish thing, and does - in its own backwards way - prove their love, but I just like to like things.)
It'll be interesting to see all the fanfic that comes out of new!Ten and Rose. They have their own set of problems and challenges.
Don't they just. My own little bunny is VERY insistent! *g*
To bring her back just to kill her would be terrible (and just the thing that RTD would love, I don't know about Moffat).
Guess we'll have to wait and see. Also I want Jenny back. And I'd like to see River's story. AND WE WON'T GET A FULL SERIES UNTIL 2010! *cries*
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I am totally with you on most of the episode. I loved it! Not quite as much as I loved "The Stolen Earth", but I did love most of JE. I was sad that Ten ended up completely alone, after the huge reunion with all his friends/companions, and was kind of hoping he'd ask Wilf to go for a ride. I was also sad that Donna had her memory wiped, but she's Donna! If anyone can eventually come out on top, she can. I was thrilled that the Doctor sort of told off Sylvia (whom I still can't stand - along with Martha's mother. Sorry, her betrayal of Martha still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and both she and Slyvia are quite overbearing for mothers of adult children.)
The part that really made me uncomfortable was the redeux at Bad Wolf Bay. Y'know, if Rose had made the decision to stay with DoctorDonna 10.5, I'd have loved the ending of her arc. But she didn't. Ten (very much like Angel, who goes off and makes the decisions others have to live with) made the decision for her, and that kind of creeped me out. Rose really had no say in the matter. Ten took her home, without giving her any other options, and then informed her he was parking DoctorDonna 10.5 in her world, as a sort of punishment because 10.5 had committed genocide??? Um, what did he think the Daleks were trying to do? I dunno, I just thought it was rather, I know you're in love with me, but you can't have me, so look! I'll leave this guy with you, who is kind of me, but human! Isn't that terrific? Okay. Give him a snog and try him out while I sneak off again. . . It just struck me as exactly like Angel's Okay, I found out about The Black Thorn, but couldn't tell any of you because I couldn't trust you to give the appropriate reactions, so I decided to let you think I went evil again, and then set up this whole elaborate scheme, which is already in place and you can't do anything about it, but I can't finish the scheme without you, so who's with me? highhandedness. But then, Angel has a history of doing that, and I guess I just expected more from the Doctor (since I haven't seen a lot of the old episodes). But, other than that, I thought the finale was great, and as a two-parter, it was brilliant.
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The Doctor is *definitely* Angel-like. Not in a 'Power Play' way (IMHO), more in a 'This can't ever work out, I'm leaving' (The Prom/IWRY) way. Actually, did you know that Fury wanted to end NFA with Angel winning the shanshu and giving it to Spike - that's what it's like. And the Doctor was *exactly* the same in both 'Parting of the Ways' and 'Doomsday' - sending Rose to safety, without asking her what *she* wanted.
The other problem with it, is quite simply the love-story element. The writers set up Rose as his ONE TRUE LOVE, and didn't allow her to move on (whilst he did - as he always knew he'd have to sooner or later - see 'School Reunion'). Therefore they had to do something, and giving her her own Doctor was the perfect solution. Yes it involves the 'real' Doctor making the decision for her, but a) there was very little time and b) I'm not sure he trusted himself not to be swayed by her arguments.
(Would write more, except it's late and I need to go to bed. But it's a fascinating situation, especially because he is so completely selfish and selfless at the same time. I *love* it when that's the case! :)
ETA: as a sort of punishment because 10.5 had committed genocide???
I don't think it was a punishment at all - but he knew how damaged 10.5 was, and that Rose could make him better. (Just look at S1 (& S2) Doctor & Rose. She becomes the thing he believes in, the way other believe in him.)
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See, I haven't seen S1 yet. I got hooked this year when a friend of mine uploaded the eps for me, and I found it so fascinating that I wanted more! So, I popped over to Amazon, and discovered there were three previous seasons (three previous very expensive seasons, I might add!) I could only afford two seasons, so I decided to go with Ten, as I was already familar with him as the Doctor (I saw some of the Tom Baker eps years ago when PBS was showing them, but that was a long time ago). So I bought S2&3, but I've never seen S1 with Nine/Rose.
But, I really liked your idea that S4 Ten isn't really *her* Doctor, so I guess 10.5 is a good compromise. I don't think Buffy would really be happy with either Shanshued!Angel OR Shanshued!Spike in the long run. She might think she wants a normal guy, but I'm not so sure. *g*
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No kidding! I'm immensely grateful I can record them off the telly, 'cause I'd never be able to afford them!
So I bought S2&3, but I've never seen S1 with Nine/Rose.
I think maybe the best description of the differences between Nine and Ten is in this fic:
A hard, impenetrable exterior hiding a soft, wounded soul... transforming into a boyish, unassuming shell containing hearts which sometimes felt petrified as hard as stone.
Nine was incredibly damaged, and Rose made him want to live again, and - when he regenerated - I think Rose probably imprinted upon him to a certain extent, hence the good looks & charm. *g*
But, I really liked your idea that S4 Ten isn't really *her* Doctor, so I guess 10.5 is a good compromise.
As someone just quoted in a fic, because that River quote really works for the situation:
“One day, I’m going to be someone you trust completely. But I can’t wait for you to find that out so I’m going to prove it to you and I’m sorry. I’m really very sorry.”
Yes he makes the choice for her, but that doesn't mean its a *bad* choice.
I don't think Buffy would really be happy with either Shanshued!Angel OR Shanshued!Spike in the long run. She might think she wants a normal guy, but I'm not so sure. *g*
Well, I have written to fic to prove that it *can* work, so I won't argue. ;) Although, in Rose's case, if it *really* doesn't work I think the Doctor would go back in time and marry Nurse Redfern. :)
ETA: You saw that I posted chapter 3 of 'My Immortal', right?
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*snuggles you*
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Well I'm working on the next chapter of my Immortal story - it got a little delayed what with me suddenly getting a desperate urge to write post 'Journey's End' (AU) Ten/Rose... Not to mention trying to keep up with all the great fic that's being posted! I do not have enough time! *is sad*
But thanks for the snuggles - they helped. :)
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And Christopher Eccleston breaks my heart. Into tiny pieces...
But, I really liked your idea that S4 Ten isn't really *her* Doctor, so I guess 10.5 is a good compromise. I don't think Buffy would really be happy with either Shanshued!Angel OR Shanshued!Spike in the long run. She might think she wants a normal guy, but I'm not so sure. *g*
I agree!
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Yes, please! You have my e-mail addy . . . *g*
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I thought I did-- can't seem to find it!
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And re. Ten's actions as concerns Rose, then this vid gives what is probably the best explanation. *heart breaks*
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Yeah! I agree with you on most of this. I didn't see the Doctor 10.2 (or whatever we're calling him!) coming at all, and I love that twist. It's major angst for everyone, and that seems to be RTD does best. And it opens all kinds of story ideas. I loved the one you rec-ed-- perfect!
Have you read
Surprisingly, there's dancing in the rain. Not so surprisingly, there's setting the kitchen on fire, too.
Beautiful characterizations, and just plain gorgeous writing!
Now off to find your Jack/Buffy update...
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It is my default position to like stuff. *g* I even liked (=adored) LotT, and there's not a lot who did!
Yeah! I agree with you on most of this. I didn't see the Doctor 10.2 (or whatever we're calling him!) coming at all, and I love that twist. It's major angst for everyone, and that seems to be RTD does best.
Just *such* a brilliant idea, and not one I've seen in fic at all!
And it opens all kinds of story ideas. I loved the one you rec-ed-- perfect!
I have more - oh yes! I'm even *writing* one! (Alt!Ten/Rose is a fabulous ship!) Oh and you should read Her Doctor - crack!fic of the highest quality! :)
And I will certainly check out
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It’s like Buffy at the edge of the crater of Sunnydale - her whole life in front of her bursting with possiblities, but at a cost.
I think that's the partner analogy to the Doctor's "no you don't" moment, and I like it a huge amount.
I am also completely fascinated by the idea of the threefold-Doctor as the Trinity - especially after his resurrection at the start of the episode.
One thing that struck me most forcefully about the Bad Wolf Bay scene was how it fitted with the original - how they are not just the Doctor’s farewells to Rose, but also bookend his time with Donna.
Yes - it was such a poignant mirror-scene, all round.
Donna: Is "all right" special Time Lord code for... "really not all right at all"?
Doctor: Why?
Donna: Cos I'm "all right", too.
::tears up::
I too was secretly hoping she could somehow be reunited with Lee, and feel sure that somehow, somewhere, somewhen, it will happen. It will! ::tinkerbells::
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Same here. I remember as I watched it, thinking that RTD was having his cake and eating it. I was *so* impressed. :)
I am also completely fascinated by the idea of the threefold-Doctor as the Trinity - especially after his resurrection at the start of the episode.
It makes original!Doctor the Father/Creator, alt!Doctor the Son/Incarnation and Donna the Holy Spirit ("I got his mind") - the last one in particular rather boggling *my* mind yet again, but it really does work. Guess it's good RTD *is* an atheist, or people might complain! ;) (Not sure where to go with my trinity idea though - it's neat, but I still haven't gone any further, because of course the whole thing then falls apart. But it fits in neatly with my thoughts on how a lot about the themes of the shows I like reflect Christianity. But that is a post for another day!)
Yes - it was such a poignant mirror-scene, all round.
I *so* want to rewatch The Runaway Bride now. The thing that always truck me about Donna - apart from the yelling etc that everyone talked about - was when Lance told her how he'd deceived her, and her reply was just that simple "But I love you." I think that - and her later "No he didn't (deserve to die)" - were what defined her for me.
::tears up::
He just wanted a mate! ::SNIFF::
I too was secretly hoping she could somehow be reunited with Lee, and feel sure that somehow, somewhere, somewhen, it will happen. It will! ::tinkerbells::
Absolutely! Although have you read Long Way for a Shortcut? It is the most wonderful - and FUNNY - alternative ending/fix it I've come across. And admirably short too!
(Actually you should read all of these fics if you haven't already! I *might* have recced them before, but it's early in the morning and my brain is fuzzy.)
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"That said, I *adore* the solution."
Ditto! I keep getting annoyed at stories popping up that try to fix this--it ain't broke people!
I should probably add that I’m not really a Rose/Ten ‘shipper. Except this new couple is making me all hand-wavy happy!)
Ditto again! I don't exactly ship anybody with the Doctor (except perhaps River--I hope that storyline gets carried through so we can find out more about their relationship)
Lol--I don't agree with everything you post in your journal about the Doctor but it is nice to find someone who is on the same wavelength about Rose and the Doctor--there seem to be only a few of us.
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Yay, I'm so glad! I can't even remember when I first thought of it, but it suddenly made so much sense. :)
Ditto! I keep getting annoyed at stories popping up that try to fix this--it ain't broke people!
I can understand people wanting to fix the Donna thing (although with Eleven it would never be the same, so I'm getting more OK with it), but the 10.5/Rose thing works beautifully the way it is.
Ditto again! I don't exactly ship anybody with the Doctor (except perhaps River--I hope that storyline gets carried through so we can find out more about their relationship)
Oooh yes, I'd love to see River again - esp with Eleven, since that would tie things together very nicely. I think the only one I really ship the Doctor with is the Master, but that in a twisted can't-ever-work sorta way, not romantic at all.
Lol--I don't agree with everything you post in your journal about the Doctor
Well different opinions are the fun of fandom! :)
but it is nice to find someone who is on the same wavelength about Rose and the Doctor--there seem to be only a few of us.
True. It's hard to find a middle ground between the rabid shippers, and the 'oh no, not the soulmate rubbish!' camp. I think Rose was just what he needed when he met her, and that losing her impacted him deeply, but that he carried on, as always. Oh - have you read "Yeah, I know what an allegory is," said Ace.? (It's possibly the best drabble ever written.)