Reviews of s8 issue 4.

[elisi]

Realised that for some reason I forgot to put these up. This time I've ordered them in groups:

I've got a theory...
Excellent summary and analysis by moscow_watcher.

Canon-y goodness yay!

Indepth review by stormwreath

Review and meta by aycheb

*shrug* (a mixed bag...)

Review by beer_good_foamy

Review by yourlibrarian

Review by confusedkayt

Review by shapinglight

Review/rant by ruuger

wtf?

Review by sp23


Um... thedeadlyhook? molly_may? Any thoughts at all? Or are you just paralysed with not caring anymore?


But I have a theory of my own... Because lets face it, Buffy looks *nothing* like she did on the show (who is this round-faced, button-nosed young woman people keep addressing as Buffy?). So, I think the real Buffy (and the real Dawn) are in Rome. This Buffy (and Dawn) are from a parallel universe, where incidents not entirely unlike those in 'our verse' took place, but with the odd differences of course [insert ret-cons]. Oh and Willow mindwiped everyone so they *think* this is the real Buffy. :)

*has brainwave*

When they brought the other Buffy and Dawn through, parallel!Amy and parallel!Warren hitched a ride. That, I think, explains everything! My theory is neat! *g*

Comments

[shapinglight]

Your theory works for me.

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

On a completely unrelated topic, can I ask you how you put a link to a post or a picture with just writing the word ? For example you write : "review" by confusedkayt and by clicking on 'review' we are lead to the post . I'm only able to do something like this if I want to link :http://confusedkayt.livejournal.com/47899.html

Help, pretty please?

[elisi]

Oooh that is quite simple:

You write

{a href="http://www.examplewebpage.com"}Word here{/a}

But with < > instead of { }! :)

*feels clever*

[elisi]

I think it explains everything. Well most things...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have another theory. It's Giles experiencing his own version of Normal Again.

Because this is the worst Giles' nightmare.

His Slayer has turned into a horny teenager/damsel in distress/enemy of the civilization.

He's exiled somewhere where he can't help her.

He has shadowy dealings with demons.

Plus, Buffy's dreamspace has a cube with Beljoxa's eye. Buffy has never seen it, it's part of Giles' dreamspace.

[elisi]

Because this is the worst Giles' nightmare.
Oh that is *brilliant*! ::is impressed::

Also I'm sorry I never commented on your post - 'tis most excellent. I especially enjoyed the summary. :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I'll buy that. After all, parallel universes are commonplace in comics (just ask any Superman reader how Superman could possibly have fought in WW2 and still be young in the 1980s).

Now, your challenge, should you choose to accept it, will be to write or at least outline the events of the parallel universe that led us up to s8. It's a bit like every "what happened between Welcome To The Hellmouth and The Wish in the wishverse" fic, only of course more subtle...

[ruuger]

Count me in with the folks paralysed with not caring.

I've been meaning to write something about the issue, but I've already ranted about the retcons in other people's journals and the rest of my reaction is pretty much covered by "What?" and so my review would probably just end up as my thesis on the subject "Comic book art matters, damn it, Or: why 'he didn't give Buffy big boobies' is not enough reason to call artwork good". :)

But I am working on my own theory/fic to explain the storyline so far, and hopefully I'll get it finished and posted before I go off for my vacation this weekend ;)

[elisi]

parallel universes are commonplace in comics
And Doctor Who! :)

Now, your challenge, should you choose to accept it
Ha! Nope, not gonna happen, sorry. *goes back to working on Asylum ficlets*

Good idea though... :)

[elisi]

Count me in with the folks paralysed with not caring.
I wrote down my own thoughts, but they were short and I mostly did it to capture my own initial reaction.

Comic book art matters, damn it, Or: why 'he didn't give Buffy big boobies' is not enough reason to call artwork good".
I'd read it! *prays yet harder for Franco Urru to do s6*

I am working on my own theory/fic to explain the storyline so far
Looking forward to it! :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Comic book art matters, damn it, Or: why 'he didn't give Buffy big boobies' is not enough reason to call artwork good

I've been thinking some about this since 8.04. To me, it's not just a matter of the characters being inconsistent in how they look, but WHAT is actually drawn. I'm starting to think that my not-able-to-care-whether-it's-canon-or-not is largely this: the first rule of storytelling is "show, don't tell". Good comics do this, by definition. s8, so far, has TOLD us far too much and not shown us enough. Which isn't to say I want to see Willow's head cut open, just... make me care. Give me something to hang an emotional response on, not just an intellectual one. The artwork doesn't work because, both in likeness and in action, it doesn't FEEL like BtVS the TV series, even IF the story could work on an intellectual level. These aren't our characters; they're 2-dimensional versions of them, at best. If all Joss wants to do is TELL us what happened, he might as well have given an extensive interview; he needs to make us FEEL it. In cinematographical terms - he needs not only a cameraman (Jeanty) but a director too.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

And yes, there aren't nearly enough capitalizations of the word "feel" in that post. Sorry. *smacks shift key*

[elisi]

Oh YES! Much nodding here. Think I'll link to this comment from my user info, 'cause yes!

(PS. Read 'Spike: Asylum'!)

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Because lets face it, Buffy looks *nothing* like she did on the show (who is this round-faced, button-nosed young woman people keep addressing as Buffy?).

Well I guess Jeanty's drawing the character not the actor :-) Although SMG does have a round face at least compared to mine because I've tried those hair styles and they so do not work on me. Art seems to be a very personal thing. Jeanty's terrible at portraiture but while it's often difficult to be certain who a character is, the recent Faith cover is all kinds of wrong, he *is* good at showing what that character is feeling. His Buffy has the full range of expressions, pensive, puzzled, bitchy, bubbly, fearful, frustrated and seriously hardcore by the end. He also, possibly through Joss's direction does an excellent job of whatever the comics equivalent is of cinematography/editing, the composition of the pages is nicely varied, mixing close-ups and long shots and patterning the panels in interesting ways. This complexity may be part of why people are having trouble, it really helps (and is part of the fun) to have the instant rewind facility that you have with a book, I wouldn't like to read these online.

[elisi]

Well I guess Jeanty's drawing the character not the actor :-)
Now see Franco Urru does that in Asylum. His Spike is quite simply just Spike, in every way. Jeanty's work is a serious obstacle in my enjoyment of s8.

he *is* good at showing what that character is feeling.
Yes, but since I don't care about that character, it's rather irrelevant.

whatever the comics equivalent is of cinematography/editing, the composition of the pages is nicely varied, mixing close-ups and long shots and patterning the panels in interesting ways.
Hm. Interesting is a nice way of describing it, but I'm not sure it's *good*. And overall his work really can only be described as 'competent' - it certainly has good parts, but it's not... inventive. And he really can't do action. (Having just re-read issues 1 and 2 of 'Spike vs Dracula' I have to say that I've mellowed somewhat towards Jeanty. Sure his Buffy looks nothing like *my* Buffy, but at least she isn't ugly.)

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Now see Franco Urru does that in Asylum. His Spike is quite simply just Spike, in every way. Jeanty's work is a serious obstacle in my enjoyment of s8.
I haven' seen all of Asylum, just part of issue 5 which was posted online and the panel in your review but the ability to draw emotion is a problem I have with what I have seen. His Spike is instantly recognisable but his facial expressions are Angel-like opaque in every frame. This may be because none of what I've seen so far includes any close-ups but again that's another problem 2-3 pages with every panel at the same mid-distant focal length gets wearying on the eye.

Yes, but since I don't care about that character, it's rather irrelevant.
Well that rather goes back to the point made in your review, if you don't care about Buffy when Spike's not there there's not a lot S8 can ever do for you {g}

[jamalov29.livejournal.com]

Thank you ! I will try it .

[debris4spike]

Still haven't seen the comics - but think your theory is great ... Dread to think what parallel-universe- Debris4spike is up top now ... this one has just put the kettle on!

[elisi]

This may be because none of what I've seen so far includes any close-ups but again that's another problem 2-3 pages with every panel at the same mid-distant focal length gets wearying on the eye.
Oh the cinematography of Asylum is *gorgeous*. Much more like the show than s8 - IMHO of course. And Spike has plenty of expressions, trust me! :) Anyway, even if he didn't, he still comes across as the character we know. S8 Buffy just doesn't. She sounds right, but looks wrong, and I can't separate the two I'm afraid.

if you don't care about Buffy when Spike's not there there's not a lot S8 can ever do for you {g}
Well I *do* care about Buffy. A lot. It's just this Buffy I'm having a problem with. I think it's partly just that the focus is so wide. It's written like a TV show, but it doesn't have any of a TV show's advantages. *sighs* See if I love something, I'm willing to forgive an *awful* lot. But I don't love easily and so far s8 has done nothing to win me over.

[elisi]

Still haven't seen the comics
So far? You're not missing out.

this one has just put the kettle on!
Tea is always good! :)

[molly_may]

Or are you just paralysed with not caring anymore?

Pretty much. I felt a tiny spark of interest at the end, in the scene between Buffy and the General, but when are we going to get the next part of that story? Months from now? I find the bite-sized storytelling format to be incredibly frustrating. And I found the whole consequence-free torture of Willow and her healing the wounded to be cheap and lazy. Bored now.

[elisi]

I find the bite-sized storytelling format to be incredibly frustrating.
Same here. s8 isn't a TV show, but that's how it's written, and that fact does it no favours!

Bored now.
Same here.

It's funny though, because I think Xander is now my favourite character. Oh and I feel rather happy with my WIP and am trying to think up interesting stuff for Willow! ;)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Also I'm sorry I never commented on your post - 'tis most excellent. I especially enjoyed the summary. :)

Thanks! As to "not commenting" - I understand it. I see that more and more people who initially were enthusiastic, stop caring and withdraw from discussing.

I suppose it's a matter of high expectations - the result doesn't satisfy because people were expecting a masterpiece.

After the "cheese" comment at the end of the first issue I decided to condition myself to a funny, cheesy entertainment - a project Joss accepted to survive during the drought season. S8 works better this way.

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

has TOLD us far too much and not shown us enough.

Ha! Exactly. The whole vibe of them thus far (and I've seen little to show it'll change) really feels like those horrible fanfics where there are about 3000 words saying which canon they decided to use. "This story takes place in S1 except Buffy wasn't called first, Faith was, and she's on the run not from Kakistos, but from Angelus who turned her family after..."

[elisi]

"This story takes place in S1 except Buffy wasn't called first, Faith was, and she's on the run not from Kakistos, but from Angelus who turned her family after..."
*snickers* This has occurred to me too...

"This story takes place post-Chosen, only Willow and Dawn are really close, and Warren didn't die, but was magicked away by Amy..."

Oh - and you know how the Xander fans were always saying 'This will be the season of Xander!' I think for once they might be right. :) So far, he's the only one who looks and sounds and behaves realistically. My new OTP is Xander/Renee.