::eyeroll::

[elisi]

Spoilery preview of S8 issue 4.

Dude! Amy *saved* Warren before Willow killed him? WTF? Apart from all the enormous issues it raises (what about The First? How did Willow not *notice* that she wasn't the one killing him (/making him disappear)? What about Willow's whole S7 arc? What does Amy see in a misogynist pig who kills girls for fun? Etc. etc.), then there is this (which has been bothering me since Amy was first revealed): How come they didn't get out of Sunnydale before the apocalypse? Even ordinary people could feel that something bad was coming and left town, so surely a smart girl like Amy would get the hell out before the whole place collapsed?

It doesn't make sense!!!! Did working on Wonder Woman break something vital in Joss' brain? I know he never cared all that much about 'how things worked', bending the rules so he could get to the emotional part, but this is... *throws hands up*

Thank the powers above that this never made it to the screen!

Comments

[shapinglight]

I agree. I'm really annoyed. Joss has pretty much ruined the Dark Willow arc in my opinion.

[fenchurche.livejournal.com]

You've lined up, precisely, pretty much all the problems I had with those five pages. And just throw in the fact that Dawn has a familial-type closeness to Willow now? I mean, I suppose it's been long enough, but I'm pretty sure the last time we saw them, Dawn was still not on very good terms with Willow at all. It just seems a bit out of the blue and sudden.

[cindergal.livejournal.com]

It's like very bad fanfic. And since when is Willow like a mom to "Dawnie?" I still haven't even read the comics - just these little snippets - and nothing I see makes me want to rush out and get them.

[liliaeth]

Honestly, I'm convinced that the only reason he had Warren come back, is so that his 'sweet little Willow' hasn't got Warren's death on her conscience. She's his favorite little Mary Sue, so of course he wants her blameless and easily forgiven for whatever the hell she does wrong.

[mefnord.livejournal.com]

Oh my.

You practically said it all. But HOW can Joss do this? Retcon a whole character arc? And Amy had been watchin' Willow the whole time? WTF? Why? How?

And, Joss? TARA was Dawn's mother figure. Sheesh.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about the whole Willow and Dawn stuff (although if she's feeling as estranged from Buffy as she seems in the comics it makes sense she would've turned to Willow, IMO), but I just have to say that I don't think the fact that Warren didn't die has any bearing on Willow's S7 arc. I don't think it really matters whether he died or not: the intent to kill him was there and she did try to destroy the world and those are the things that she was coming to terms with during S7. The fact that Warren is or isn't dead doesn't change that, IMO, YMMV etc.

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

Just one more reason,IMO, why the series should have ended with Chosen. "shakes head"

[elisi]

I want an icon that says 'Willow is a murderer' or 'My Willow kills people' or something like... Or maybe one of D'Hoffryn talking about the co-worker (Lloyd? I can't remember exactly) who has a sketch of the flaying on his wall...

Anyway comic!Willow is clearly not the *real* Willow, since her eyes are blue.

[elisi]

You've lined up, precisely, pretty much all the problems I had with those five pages.
It would appear that most of us are on the same page...

It just seems a bit out of the blue and sudden.
Not to mention the fact that no one has apparently *seen* Willow for months.

[elisi]

It's like very bad fanfic.
Yup. Those that have a disclaimer along the lines of 'Set post-Chosen, but Spike never died and Faith is still in prison and Angel and Wesley are having an affair...'

nothing I see makes me want to rush out and get them.
Same here. I've downloaded them all, but am not impresed. I'm still holding out hope for S6 of AtS though. Joss won't be the main writer! *g*

[elisi]

Honestly, I'm convinced that the only reason he had Warren come back, is so that his 'sweet little Willow' hasn't got Warren's death on her conscience.
I'm thinking along the same lines, sadly... although I'm sure part of it was just 'wouldn't it be cool if we brought back Warren? And he was all skinless?' (etc)

[elisi]

Just one more reason,IMO, why the series should have ended with Chosen.
It did. (I need to upload that '7 seasons of Buffy' icon I think.)

[elisi]

Sheesh.
Wordy McWord. I never expected much from the comics, but...

[elisi]

although if she's feeling as estranged from Buffy as she seems in the comics it makes sense she would've turned to Willow, IMO
I can sort of see that, but just sketching it in with 2 lines (and mentioning the time when Buffy was dead, which makes no sense) isn't really enough.

The fact that Warren is or isn't dead doesn't change that, IMO, YMMV etc.
Oh I see what you mean, absolutely. But - it absolves her of her guilt from *our* POV, if we take the comics as canon (she meant to kill him, but luckily she didn't - just like Buffy meant to kill Faith in 'Graduation Day', but didn't. Is Buffy a murderer?). And it strikes me that Warren was brought back only because Joss could which is not a good enough reason. Also the entire thing is utterly ridiculous, which is my main gripe.

*goes back to reading fabulous fanfic with clever plots and proper characterisation*

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's bad. Horrible, even. Worst of all, it's lame.

It's like I said in molly_may's LJ a while back, the comics really seem to be disregarding the show, particularly the last 2 years. Before it was characterization (nothing from S7 seems to have stuck at all) and now he's basically trying to do away with the actual events. What's next, Xander didn't really lose an eye? Joyce was just faking the whole being dead thing?

Joss moaned for 3 years after the show was over that he didn't have any ideas left about Buffy. Turns out, he wasn't kidding.

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

Yeah I mean they didn't give a lot of backstory and such for the Dawn and Willow stuff, and the in-canon ties are tenative (Tara was really closer to Dawn when Buffy was dead, though with Tara gone I can see Dawn transferring that to Willow, but still).

it absolves her of her guilt from *our* POV

I can see that POV, but I personally don't believe that's true. I don't think it does absolve her of guilt and I think most importantly it wouldn't to Willow, either. And here I'm going by her remorse during Season 7 so who knows how the comics are going to deal with it, which is really the problem. Heh.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

I really don’t think it’s that difficult. In reverse order:-

How come they didn't get out of Sunnydale before the apocalypse?
Because they though their side was going to win?

What does Amy see in a misogynist pig who kills girls for fun?
Amy fancied Larry before he came out. Misogynist bad boy with super powers? Does it for some girls. Also a big case of my enemy’s enemy. Amy likes anyone who might take Willow down a peg

What about Willow's whole S7 arc?
Huh? You mean because she only flayed Warren alive rather than killing him she’s nothing to feel guilty about? Besides trying to destroy the world.

How did Willow not *notice* that she wasn't the one killing him (/making him disappear)?
Would she care? She was bored of the whole thing.

What about The First?
You mean how could it appear as Warren? How do you define death? The First could take Spike’s form and he’s undead not dead so strictly I guess the rule must be that it can’t take the form of the living (or the molecularly pasty in Buffy’s case). Warren was in shock, medically a state of blood supply being insufficient. Very similar in fact to the condition a person has to reach to be turned, if we’re to believe Darla (drain me until the heart starts to slow). It’s rather neat when you think about it. Warren’s a case of convergent vampirism.

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

If Warren didn't die then the First couldn't have appeared as him. So Andrew couldn't have been persuaded to kill Jonathan. So Jonathan didn't die. And the whole of S7 couldn't have been anything like we saw on screen!

The comics cannot be canon. Joss saying that they are doesn't make it so. Did he even watch any S7 episodes other than 'Chosen'?

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

ITA that the fact that Warren didn't actually die doesn't absolve Willow. She had total intent to kill, and she did succeed in torturing him (the slo-mo bullet and a bit of flaying action).

But Willow is Dawn's best buddy? There were serious Dawn/Willow problems after the car wreck/broken arm thing. And Willow had some very nasty things to say to her when she went all veiny. I don't recall any reconciliation about any of this in S7, and according to the comic books, Willow has been out of touch. So their sudden closeness is really bizarre. Joss has some 'splaining to do on all of that if he's going to make this credible.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Lloyd is the African demon. In Villains you can see his sketches on the cave wall

[awmp.livejournal.com]

*whistles*

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Joss and consistency = unmixy. Obviously his season 8 story demands Willow-the-innocent. Joss is radically retconning Willow, making her white and fluffy.

I told from the very beginning that season 8 has distinct season 1 feel. The more we delve into the story the more season 1 it becomes. Innocent heroes. High school enemies. Black-and-white situations.

[elisi]

Nice! (And also - fast!) Thanks lots and lots - now I just have to decide which icons to get rid of (since as usual I am up to my limit. *sob*).

*smooch*

[prophecygirrl.livejournal.com]

I'm more upset about the "Will is like a Mom to me" thing than the Warren thing. Because it's OOC for Dawn, and there is no worse sin for me. Tara was like a Mom; Willow got her in a car crash.

[ruuger]

And you know, it's seriously starting to look like it will be Dawn, not Buffy, who will eventually rescue Willow. Possibly with the help of an army of slayers lead by Xander.

...while Buffy sits at home in her sexy negligee and thinks about how much she misses sex.

I'm just so tired of this whole comic right now. And feeling a terrible urge to run a "Buffy is the hero, damnit!" ficathon.