Meta Café: Hell of a Bird or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Timeless Child

[elisi]

So, before we start I just want to link to this brilliant and hilarious post which chronicles the sheer ridiculous amount of lore that we now have. :)


Now this essay is about 5k long and roams all over Thirteen’s era as well as Fourteen and what we have of Fifteen so far, as well as looking at the Master, the Time War, the Flux, Gallifrey and Earth. So basically: Spoilers for everything. But, we think we have created a solid understanding of what The Timeless Child means for the Doctor and the show, and how it all hangs together. And it’s pretty neat! ^_^

ETA: On AO3 here.





Hell of a Bird or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Timeless Child




Now, to the meta itself. That, too, starts on Tumblr — this post specifically, which intercuts Fourteen talking to not!Donna and Tecteun talking to Thirteen about the Flux:


It destroyed half the universe because of me.

However it was these tags/commentary which caught Promethia’s eye; tags in italics and her thoughts below:


#I’m fully propagandizing for the theory that the Doctor is whatever the *opposite* of Wild Blue Yonder's creatures are #since Time Gentry seem to emit energy v. absorb it #and the Doctor keeps turning people into versions of the Doctor (see: Clara/the Children of Time/A Good Man Goes to War) #even if the Doctor is tethered to mortal form by habit #they have an eternity to change the universe #and are one Hell of a bird #so it makes logical sense to destroy the universe like the Captain did the ship #(of course we know that it won't quite turn out that way) #(since there are other forces in the universe and the best the Doctor could add to the Daleks is a hint of mercy) #(but it also explains why the Doctor has to *do* things and keep leading by example) #(since the Yonder entities needed the Doctor and Donna scared and thinking)


promethia_tenk (mostly *g*):

Mostly I'm caught up on ’They have an eternity to change the universe, and are one hell of a bird.' That is . . . a wild thought. This person may have single-handedly converted me into a Timeless Child apologist.

Tecteun’s actions in the Flux (destroying the whole universe just to get the Doctor out of the way?!?) always seemed wildly overblown to me. But if the Doctor is, like, this universal constant, always there and always pushing the universe in the direction they deem right, that means that… You can't kill them. Mind wiping them doesn't seem to work. The only way to overcome them, then, is to destroy the universe around them. *blows air* I kind of love it?

I think what I like best about this way of framing the Doctor is that they still have all the same tools they always have — they're not all-powerful. As the post points out, all they could do with the Daleks is embed the idea of mercy. But what they do have is so, so, so much more time than they ever realized: time itself as a superpower. Thank goodness they're basically flighty: looking for quick fixes and liable to get continually distracted.

Can you imagine what the Master might accomplish if they realized they had infinite time to shape the universe to their specifications: nudging this here and that there until a billion years later X happens? Instead if what you have is the Doctor hewing more-or-less to their 'be a Doctor' ethos but in their usual random way, you probably do get a cumulative effect over the course of the entire universe towards greater good without… over-pruning, shall we say. It really gives 'take care of the universe for me; I've put a lot of work into it' a new meaning.

It also lends even more weight to River’s speech in A Good Man Goes to War:

RIVER: This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began, all those years ago, sailing off to see the universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name. Doctor. The word for healer and wise man throughout the universe. We get that word from you, you know. But if you carry on the way you are, what might that word come to mean? To the people of the Gamma Forests, the word Doctor means mighty warrior. How far you've come. And now they've taken a child, the child of your best friends, and they're going to turn her into a weapon just to bring you down. And all this, my love, in fear of you.


That kind of power — if you’re not careful, the outcome will not be what you were aiming for…  


It also means the Doctor's kryptonite is memory. Which it always has been — the Doctor has always struggled with memory — this just sort of… makes it bigger and more tangible. Because the thing standing between the Doctor and being able to use the full extent of their superpower (time) is whether they can remember it or not. It's also why the Doctor having a rock-solid understanding of what being the Doctor means to them is so important — because their memory can't be trusted. They need that anchor. Always did, before we knew this about them, but now it's just bigger and more imperative.


I also think it's really interesting in that it flips how we usually see the Doctor — flitting around, always taking the shorter path. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, they're on the longest path of all. Them and their universe — they can wait out anything.

In a retcon-y way, I feel like Heaven Sent should have been a Clue that the Doctor is more than we'd been told. Does it work as an affecting metaphor for grief? Of course. But 4.5 billion years… I feel like even Time Lord brains would break down trying to process that.

Also there is something deeply satisfying about the whole 'the Doctor is becoming bigger than the narrative, this is a problem' and then turning it all on its head and saying 'YES, the Doctor IS bigger, that's the point'.

It's sort of the problem that the modern show has been trying to solve all along: what does it mean that this seemingly bumbling character has such an outsized influence over the universe? And it answers it in a way that tells us the Doctor is both larger and smaller than we previously thought. They're not some Cartmellian mastermind. You keep the character humble while simultaneously giving an explanation for what is so obviously going on. This isn’t about other characters talking about how big and grand and amazing the Doctor is: it’s about watching the same character saving the universe over and over and over for sixty years and about the scope of that saving, the meaning of it, continually growing. Because that’s how stories work.

There are two basic ways to handle the accumulated narrative weight of such a long, ongoing story: you take the James Bond route: continual resets, keep the story small, contained. Keep telling the same story over and over. Or you acknowledge it: you say, yes, this is happening. And here’s why. And here are the consequences of that.  And here’s what that might mean. I think I prefer the latter.

Sidebar: So where did bb!Timeless Child COME from? I'm just imagining the 'parents' (or whatever) just sort of sending them on their way: "OK sweetie, we've picked a universe for you. Have fun! Look after it well."

Now it’s fascinating, in the light of this, that the Doctor was very much talking to the Toymaker like an equal?


DOCTOR: I don't understand why you're so small! You can turn bullets into flowers. Think of the good you could do. So tell me why you don't!
TOYMAKER: You know full well this is merely a face concealing a vastness that will never cease, because your good and your bad are nothing to me. All that exists is to win or to lose.
DOCTOR: And you know full well that I've had many faces, containing something far more. So come with me. Leave this tiny world. We can take your games back to the stars. We can play across the cosmos. We can be... Celestial.


Lines that struck me:


“I don’t understand why you are so small.”

"I have had many faces, containing something far more.”

"We can be... celestial.”

VERY interesting choice of words, and the 'small' line especially was amazing. Because as a way to track the evolution from One to Fourteen it’s simply beautiful — One was in over his head and basically managed to get away through Trickster-y-ness.

Whereas Fourteen is very aware of how serious it all is, but also stepping out and declaring himself on the same level. It might be the first big villain since the Timeless Child reveal and I love to see him going 'You have no idea who you are dealing with'.

That said, I don't think The Toymaker understands who the Doctor is. He begins to realise with the bi-regeneration, but at this point in the narrative we see the Doctor trading on his *actual identity* (even if he doesn't know what it is), much like previous Doctors would trade on their name.

And the ‘Celestial’ was delightful also. The offer echoes his offer to the Master in The End of Time, but more. Not just a ‘fellow Time Lord’ but an eternal, elemental force. Because that’s the level he is playing on now.



~o~

And now onto the further thoughts, which are by both of us. (Any of Promethia’s are specifically indicated.)




Thirteen and the Flux and Fourteen
Now Chibnall's run was, on the whole, very much composed of small, insular stories. Nothing seemed to matter terribly much. And then Fugitive of the Judoon came along and absolutely creamed us upside the head and then The Timeless Children happened and canon went into meltdown. Like… what? Story-wise those years are a bit of a blur, but the whiplash was astronomical.


We’ve been trying to decide if it’s justified to say that the Doctor's focus had changed and that this allowed these bigger things to broadside her? We’re not sure if that's technically true because the Doctor gets broadsided by random big shit whenever the story feels like it, but… it did kind of feel that way, didn't it?

And then — the Flux happened, and it ran away from Thirteen entirely. Promethia argues that the Flux is like A Good Man Goes to War: it's not its own complete story. It's meant to broadside us and the Doctor with something huge, have them barely scrape by, and set up the back half. It's a problem because the Flux ended up being the culmination rather than a mid-point, but she feels that's what it's doing story-wise.

Donna and Fifteen saying that Fourteen is running on empty really puts Thirteen into focus, because it means we can say with justification, yeah, she was just going through the motions. Semi-retied, let's say. Not able to stop, but not able to keep going either. Mostly just trying not to screw anything up too badly again. When the Doctor's on their game, the universe gets saved and (sometimes) the Doctor (or a companion) dies. That's not what happened with the Flux.

In New Who we’ve had a whole running theme of the Doctor turning people into themself — and the Companions then go on and do Doctor-y things, like save the universe. They become players, little mini-Doctors who can Save The Day; the pinnacle obviously being Clara (for better or worse), but even one-offs like Astrid can step up.

But Thirteen's companions never stepped up the same way — Yaz being the exception, probably, in that she became very skillful, but did she ever save the day, the way most Companions do straight out of the gate? (If anyone can think of an example please let us know. ETA: Yes, she became the de-facto Doctor when they were stuck in the past, but the Fam became accidental companions, rather than being invited along.) But then if the companions are a reflection of their Doctor, then it might make sense that Yaz never quite took that extra step, in the way of previous New Who companions. Instead she was able to leave, pretty unscathed, and simply return to her former life — her relationship always hovering on the edge, but Thirteen never able to take that final step.

(Sidebar: That’s not to say that this is a bad thing. Companions who become themselves, who contribute in ways unique to them, rather than becoming mini-Doctors, is probably something we should have more of.)

But to get back on track. This all brings us to this thought: We have the Toymaster listing Companion deaths (Amy, Clara and Bill) — and then… half the universe.

Question: Did the universe get fucked up instead of the companions?


The point is... If saving the day/the universe requires a sacrifice (either the Doctor or a Doctor-stand-in), and the Doctor isn't suitably engaged and thus doesn’t have mini-me's ready to jump into the Doctor's role (if the Doctor is unable to complete the sacrifice), then half the universe gets wiped out?


Which then (returning to our point) plays well into Fourteen running on empty and needing to NOT be stepping up…

Remember Twelve wanted to die — or, maybe more accurately, he wanted to rest:

NARDOLE: Don't die. Because if you do, I think everybody in the universe might just go cold.
DOCTOR: Can't I ever have peace? Can't I rest?
[…]
DOCTOR: Oh, there it is. The silly old universe. The more I save it, the more it needs saving. It's a treadmill.

So, maybe we can look at Fourteen’s break not as ‘therapy’, or ‘dealing with their issues’, but just as simply this: Rest. Peace. A break from the treadmill.

And that might also play into Fifteen clearly not having dealt with all of his issues; he's merely ready to step up and don the mantle again.





The Master
Let’s start with Power of the Doctor. The Master kidnaps that energy being — the space anemone that's disguised as a little girl — and uses it to power his cyber planet thing so that he can forcibly regenerate the Doctor.

Something about this really niggled us at the time (ie. the fact that it all felt so disconnected) but we decided to let it go in the face of finally getting an episode that didn’t sink into a pit of mental oblivion twenty minutes after it finished. But — the last time we'd seen the Master was The Timeless Children. In what writing universe do you do that and then bring him back for the freaking finale just to have… a quite good but ultimately traditional Master plot? It made no sense.

So let’s go over the plot again: The Master is torturing a child to use as an energy source, he's made a race of Time Lords, and he's remaking the Doctor in his image (as Tecteun tried to argue she and the Doctor are alike). It's Stage Two of his Destroy Gallifrey agenda: you don't get to do those things to my friend; only I get to do those things to my friend!

Drumroll please: He's a Tecteun mirror!

Now the worst part about the Timeless Child thing, from the Master’s perspective, is simply the Doctor being different from him: the fact that they're not the same anymore. And he needs to make that not true. Which, we reckon, is his motive for him taking over/becoming the Doctor.

And being the Doctor, with the Doctor’s apparently infinite lifespan, he could then, presumably, have done that long-term universe shaping thing... But for evil, like we were speculating about above. See, it all makes sense! ^_^ There's a purpose to it, rather than just pettiness and getting to dance around to Rasputin and be fabulous. (Not that the dance was a drawback. We are here for all the dance numbers!)

Now, moving from plot to meta, Promethia was wondering if we can somehow read the Master as the Doctor's subconscious at work. While Thirteen’s switched into low-power mode, The Master is digging up her past and blowing everything up.


We can perhaps see it as a sort of pay-back for Twelve getting Missy to dig into her past. Thirteen is very un-engaged with the Master, but he makes her care. She can't ignore him, the way she tries to literally keep everything else in her life at arms’ length.

Or it might be more accurate to say the Master hijacks her emotional responses? Like she can't react the way she might want to to what she's learned because she's having to manage the Master's own overreaction. The Master is working so hard to provoke her, and she cannot be feeding that. Which means she has to smother her own feelings about it.

To be honest, in the greater scheme of things he may have done her a bit of solid. Not in destroying Gallifrey obviously, but in giving her advance warning. Because Tecteun was going to manufacture the Flux anyway. Can you imagine if it happened without the Doctor knowing anything about her history?


Now we’re sure we talked about this at the time, but for all that Thirteen's reaction was so underwhelming, we've also got her dark mirror right there who literally blew up the planet about it. Like, the emotional outburst is there, it's just symbolically sublimated. It's almost like… the Master is the Doctor's former self? The Last of the Time Lords (the one who is a Time Lord still), the one who destroyed Gallifrey but also can't let it go. Unspeakably angry and hurt about what was done to them. Unable to deal with reality being other than what they knew. Which allows the Doctor herself to be her new/old self, who is more than this and beyond it.


There is also a question of whether there is a further layer of Master rehab to be done here?

Like the way Extremis mirrored Missy's execution to the Doctor's at Lake Silencio, and that became the basis for Twelve trying to help Missy because he'd been there… too big, despised by the universe. The Master is now the vessel of this old identity.


And, like The Last of the Cybermen (Ashad, the broken half-cyberman), the Master understands that he is impure: only half-converted to his ideal form (whatever the Doctor actually is). Who is prouder of being a Time Lord than the Master? Who hates being a Time Lord more than the Master? But like Ashad, he now understands that he has a higher purpose in ending all existing life and creating a higher form in its place.

And, like Ashad, he absorbed the Cyberium himself in The Timeless Children.

Mary Shelly calling Ashad a 'modern Prometheus' is obviously a Frankenstein reference, but this fits the Master two ways: 1) like Frankenstein's monster, he too is 'constructed' (all Time Lords are constructed, we now know) and 2) like Prometheus, he too stole fire from the gods (the technology he stripped from Gallifrey).

It also validates the Master's fears of how this changes their relationship to the Doctor. Because, yes, they'll always have their history together. Nothing changes that. But a lot of what was holding them together was that they were these two renegade Time Lords, and occasionally The Last of the Time Lords. All each other had.


Well, the Doctor's relationship to the Time Lords is different now. Those speeches they've given so many companions about how they'll get old and die and the Doctor will keep going on? They could give that speech to the Master now. And it’s worth bearing in mind that the Master's overarching, singular motive throughout the whole show has been Not Dying. Oh it must sting that he is now ‘less’.

Fourteen told the not!Donna that all he has left now is the TARDIS, just as Fifteen told Ruby that he has ‘no one’. Even though he knows the Master is still out there. And he asked the Toymaker to run away to the stars with him… How much of that was a ruse to get him away from Earth and how much of that was a legitimate hope for an equal? Hard to say, but the echoes to his offer to the Master are definitely deliberate.

So, will the Doctor unilaterally dump the Master the next time they meet? No. The Master certainly wouldn't allow it, for one thing. But if they want to be in the Doctor's life, they're going to have to earn it in a way they've never really had to before. We're never getting another scene of the Doctor brushing past the suffering of his friends and the earth so that they can forgive the Master, beg them for their attention, and cry over their body. And like… about time. ;) (Note: the shipping can continue as before <3, but the context has changed.)




From the Time War to the Timeless Child
Going back to the beginning of New Who, The Timeless Child also works as an additional layer for why the Doctor ended the Time War in the first place. Not that it didn't make sense with his character — he was probably the only Time Lord who could/would. But it was also such a huge step for the character to take, one that really took him onto another level, and IDK… Just having the subconscious influence of 'that's my universe, I put a lot of work into it, I can't let these two warring races destroy all that’ works rather beautifully.

Now, the Flux is kind of a reverse Time War. Like, what if the Doctor hadn't gone through with ending it? What would have happened to the universe? The Flux is this cataclysmic thing which the Doctor is not personally responsible for which nevertheless illustrates the level of responsibility the Doctor is operating on.

And — it makes the whole modern show hold together better. Like… the Time War happens, and it creates this break between the Doctor and the Time Lords. The Doctor realises they have to stop the Time Lords in order to save the rest of the universe. There is a possible subconscious motivation behind this that realises the Doctor is not a Time Lord themself and that they have this much broader responsibility.

Then the Doctor experiences this period where they believe the Time Lords to be gone, and they interpret this change as 'I'm the last of the Time Lords.' Actually they're no such thing — both because the Time Lords still exist, but also because the Doctor wasn’t a Time Lord to begin with. But it's like the separation has begun, and this begins the cascade of events of the modern show during which the Doctor discovers the separation was much more fundamental than they realised.


There are also a couple of fundamental paradigm shifts:


The show began all those years ago with the First Doctor and his granddaughter running away from Gallifrey — fugitives, or renegades. And Doctors One through Eight fitted this designation. Sometimes they were made Lord President, but they were always an outsider, running away again.

Then RTD created the first major shift with the Time War: The Doctor was the man who ended the Time War by destroying his own people. (Much has been written about this, we shan’t go over it again.) But although a very effective narrative device, it also became a limiting one: There is a lot of angst to be wrung from war crimes, but it’s not very relatable.

However the second shift is very different. It’s fab that RTD has latched onto ‘Unknown Parents’ (/‘abusive parents’) like a limpet. Because it's not really something we've had before for the Doctor. There's been the whole 'lonely boy in the barn', but it's other characters who've had the childhood abuse specifically.

It's an interesting question of to what level this is a Doylist vs. Watsonian thing, but there is definitely a strongly gendered element going on here: because female characters are the ones that have stories of horrific childhood abuse. Male characters are protagonists. They suffer, yes, but they always have their own agency (the guilt of blowing up their planet for example). Of course the Timeless Children backstory comes out when the Doctor is a woman for the first time in 14 or 15 regenerations (however one decides to count it).

In Moffat Who this genderedness was coded in the symbolism too: the women controlled the symbolism: it belonged to them. The Doctor was the subject of the story, but the object of the symbolism. The women, especially River, were often the object of the story, but the subject of the symbolism.

Promethia found it deeply arresting when she realised Twelve had developed his own symbolism — to do with rocks and earth — and was using it himself. And that it was connected to the return to Gallifrey, the source of this trauma — this backstory where he is the object.  This return to the source and this discovery of what has been an exclusively female power in Moffat Who eventually leads to becoming a female regeneration for the first time in so long.

It feels like… from what we've seen of the Doctor's lives outside of the show, they had no particular leaning towards any one race or gender. It's only within the show that they were a white male for an extended length of time. And that makes sense as this subconscious persona adopted so that the Doctor could position themselves as the subject, the protagonist, rather than this victim. As that persona breaks down, we see them having more varied incarnations again.

But, back to the Doctor’s new identity.


He almost seems surprised when hearing the story of Ruby being a foundling and not knowing her parents… A sudden realisation of: ’Oh, I fit this criteria too’.

He's not used to fitting in anywhere, ever, and probably hasn't tried to contextualise his past at all, because where would he start?

Except this is an excellent place to begin: ’I was a foundling. Like Ruby. This is a thing that happens to other people also. Ruby is lost like me, she doesn't know where she came from.’

Then of course the Doctor’s story veers off to Abusive Step-mum and half the universe destroyed, but grounding it in something relatable is very good.


There is also a point to be made about how much the Doctor doesn't tell Ruby. It's kind of shocking when you realise. Yeah, he has his self-identification spiel for the policeman, but literally all Ruby gets of the traditional introduction is ‘Call me the Doctor; let's go thwart some monsters.' No ‘I’m a time traveller.’ No ‘I’m a Time Lord from Gallifrey.’ No ‘This is my TARDIS.’  He doesn’t even tell her he’s an alien.  And then we realised that he's not just being evasive for no reason: that's all he's sure about. Which we can tie back to Fourteen’s: “Strip all that away and what am I?”


But it all fits very well with the point about their shared identity being a realisation for him. So Ruby ends up getting this far more personal introduction and none of the 'sales pitch.'

It’ll be interesting to see how this will affect their dynamic, and generally what this means for the Doctor going forward. Guess we’ll see in May…





Gallifrey
Back before the 50th, when Promethia was kind of weighing all the themes, she had this very strong thought: the Time Lords need to be rebuilt — that is where the story is going. Specifically that word, rebuilt. And then Moffat brought Gallifrey back, and she went, ‘Oh ok, I was off track’. But now, here we are, and that's exactly what's going on. Turns out the Time Lords were built in the first place! From the Doctor.

Meaning that he is a sort of god after all… Not in a Creation-y sense, but in a shaping things around him, way. Just look at Jack. Or Jenny. Or Clara. Or Me. Or Bill… *waves hands* There are a lot of immortals that just sort of spring up around him — as well as timeheads like River, Donna, and Rose. And the Master making Cyber Time Lords. We're right back there!  Building.

In the meantime, River may have not been a Time Lord culturally, but biologically? She was as legitimate a Time Lord as any of them. The blood ties are gone, Gallifrey no longer holds a monopoly on the Doctor’s allegiances. And it's very much a counterpoint to the Daleks' racial purity.


We can even see it addressed, metaphorically, in the racist scene with the Toymaker in 1925:


TOYMAKER: I really must apologise for the rain. You must be used to sunnier climes.
CHARLES: I was born in Cheltenham. Your accent seems to have slipped.


So, let’s quickly jump sideways to the idea of Gallifrey as a metaphor for Britain. (See this post: Meta: Layers in Doctor Who.) Quick run-down: they had an empire and then there was a big war and then they became irrelevant (= sitting on the edge of the universe/end of time is still a great metaphor for Brexit *chef’s kiss*).

However. Chibnall blew Gallifrey up again, so we have been wondering what now? Where do we go from here?

And here Rusty is with the answer: Multicultural Britain. No more Time Lords. Just a whole lot of mongrel Time Heads from anywhere and everywhere.  *claps* Oh, it's beautiful.




Gallifrey -> Earth
Promethia has joked before that the story of this show is 'let's not go to Gallifrey — it is a silly place.' And yeah, that's flippant, but also it's a surprisingly accurate summary: for 60 years it's been a show about the Doctor not going to Gallifrey. And then occasionally going to Gallifrey and remembering why they don’t. Or conspicuously not going to Gallifrey because it’s gone (again). They’ve always been tethered.  But… Not anymore!

For the Doctor, it’s learning that Gallifrey was only a part of who they are — albeit a very significant part, and very much not an entirely positive part — that really frees them to be able to claim Earth as their home; and that it’s just as legitimate as it ever was to say Gallifrey was their home? (Not that they couldn't have decided that for themselves long ago and it be legitimate, but the Doctor was all internally knotted up about it.)

Gallifrey gave them a lot of memories (and maybe took even more), and knowledge, and the TARDIS, but Earth can be what gives them purpose and friends and even family, and that is as much of a 'blood' tie as Gallifrey ever had.

This also answers some commentary there has been around about how, yeah, the Doctor's stopped before. Several times: what about Darillium? What about Trenzalore? Bristol? But we think that just… getting to stay on earth and call it home is significant on another level.

On Trenzalore he was protecting [the village of] Christmas, and fighting an endless war. In Bristol he was minding Missy. Darillium might come closest, but then that was romantic, not domestic. And Fourteen living with Donna is achingly domestic: It's just living.


More specifically, though, Earth has been their chosen home for a long time now, and it's basically getting to acknowledge that? Gallifrey was always so… ever-present, either in its existence or its absence. It defined the Doctor in ways they couldn't escape.

And then there’s this:

DOCTOR: Clara sometimes asks me if I dream. Of course I dream, I tell her. Everybody dreams. But what do you dream about, she'll ask. The same thing everybody dreams about, I tell her. I dream about where I'm going. She always laughs at that. But you're not going anywhere, you're just wandering about. That's not true. Not any more. I have a new destination. My journey is the same as yours, the same as anyones. It's taken me so many years, so many lifetimes, but at last I know where I'm going. Where I've always been going. Home, the long way round.

The 60th specials have been a lot of fun, but they didn’t feel particularly anniversary-ish, did they? Until we learn the Doctor finally made it home. Hats off to you, Rusty.


Honestly, we think it loops neatly back to the start of the whole show, because One and Susan hadn't just popped in for a look around. Susan was going to school. They had settled in for some sort of duration. One couldn't even fly the TARDIS, really — trying to take off again was actively dangerous because he had no control over where they would land. The fact that he took Susan with him despite this indicates they were running from something.

THE DOCTOR: I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it. Have you ever thought what it's like to be wanderers in the fourth dimension? Have you? To be exiles? Susan and I are cut off from our own planet, without friends or protection.

What we’re saying is, it's the story of a refugee who washed up in a boat somewhere and ended up making it home.


~ ❤️ ~

Comments

[sea_thoughts]

But Thirteen's companions never stepped up the same way — Yaz being the exception, probably, in that she became very skilful, but did she ever save the day, the way most Companions do straight out of the gate? (If anyone can think of an example please let us know.)

She saved the day plenty of times in that year she spent with Dan and the Professor, we just don't get to see it. She became Dan's Doctor (which is why Dan wanting to go with Thirteen felt so weird and why Yaz abandoning him outside his shrunken house to go off with Thirteen was awful). She's also the one who carries Thirteen to safety in the TARDIS. I think that's her big moment tbh.

I like the idea of the Master lashing out against Gallifrey and therefore taking the Doctor's outrage away from her, not letting her process what she's just learned. Because she doesn't want to process it or face up to it, that would involve being 'not nice'. Thirteen is very attached to the idea of being nice, I think that's why she was so NASTY towards the Master - because he wouldn't let her function on auto-pilot, he made her react.

The offer echoes his offer to the Master in The End of Time, but more. Not just a ‘fellow Time Lord’ but an eternal, elemental force. Because that’s the level he is playing on now.

But do you think he actually thought the offer would be accepted? Or was it just a ploy? I personally thought it was terribly sad that he was making the Toymaker the same offer that he made the Master, it showed how lonely he still was, even with Donna and Mel and Kate standing right there.

[elisi]

She saved the day plenty of times in that year she spent with Dan and the Professor, we just don't get to see it.
Added a bit about when they got stuck in the past - I'm sure there was a line about that at some point, but it must have gotten cut in an edit - because yes, she was very Doctor-y. But none of the Fam ever followed the usual New Who initiation process. To be fair, they got accidentally kidnapped I now remember, so they were much more like traditional Classic Companions right from the off.

She became Dan's Doctor (which is why Dan wanting to go with Thirteen felt so weird and why Yaz abandoning him outside his shrunken house to go off with Thirteen was awful).
Yeah, the emotional through lines were just utterly lacking. :(

She's also the one who carries Thirteen to safety in the TARDIS. I think that's her big moment tbh.
Very true. She's absolutely brilliant in Power of the Doctor, and I am genuinely wondering why it doesn't register the way it does with other companions.

I like the idea of the Master lashing out against Gallifrey and therefore taking the Doctor's outrage away from her, not letting her process what she's just learned.
I think that's mostly Promethia's, although a lot of it is muddled now. *g*

Because she doesn't want to process it or face up to it, that would involve being 'not nice'. Thirteen is very attached to the idea of being nice, I think that's why she was so NASTY towards the Master - because he wouldn't let her function on auto-pilot, he made her react.
That is a great observation! And there is a very insightful Tumblr post about her mindset. Poor Thirteen.

But do you think he actually thought the offer would be accepted? Or was it just a ploy?
Bit of both? Anything to get The Toymaker away from Earth... I don't think he believed that The Toymaker would accept, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. It might just work.

I personally thought it was terribly sad that he was making the Toymaker the same offer that he made the Master, it showed how lonely he still was, even with Donna and Mel and Kate standing right there.
Oh yeah. And stopping just isn't an option he ever considers.

Sidebar: This is the funniest take I have seen. *g*

[sea_thoughts]

Oof, that post about Thirteen is too real.

Who do you think picked up that tooth? I thought it might be Kate.

[elisi]

Oof, that post about Thirteen is too real.
Yeah, it tracks WAY too well. Poor Thirteen. I still wish I liked her more.

Who do you think picked up that tooth? I thought it might be Kate.
I went back to check and it looks like she is wearing red nail varnish, so she definitely seems the most likely candidate. She'd presumably lock him up somewhere in UNIT, and he'll escape when needed for plot-reasons! :)

[sea_thoughts]

it looks like she is wearing red nail varnish, so she definitely seems the most likely candidate. She'd presumably lock him up somewhere in UNIT, and he'll escape when needed for plot-reasons!

Yeah, and maybe the Toymaker, too? Or maybe I'm just hoping to see NPH one more time because that was a barnstorming performance.

[promethia_tenk]

She became Dan's Doctor (which is why Dan wanting to go with Thirteen felt so weird and why Yaz abandoning him outside his shrunken house to go off with Thirteen was awful
Ouch. Never thought of it like that. OTOH: abandoning her companions? Not even Clara achieved that level of Doctor mirroring. A true prodigy.

Thirteen is very attached to the idea of being nice, I think that's why she was so NASTY towards the Master - because he wouldn't let her function on auto-pilot, he made her react.
Oooo, yes, I like this. But I am very here for how completely over the Master Thirteen is. Like, she does not give him the time of day even once (once she knows who he is.) Honestly proud of her.

[sea_thoughts]

OTOH: abandoning her companions? Not even Clara achieved that level of Doctor mirroring. A true prodigy.

Lol! TBF they are now in touch through that support group but yes... popped out without even checking if he had somewhere to go!

But I am very here for how completely over the Master Thirteen is. Like, she does not give him the time of day even once (once she knows who he is.) Honestly proud of her.

Oh, same! As this post puts it: I love how it took the doctor just three regenerations to go all the way from:
*breath shaking, eyes wide with fear* “Master” to *Jesus christ not this clown-lord again* “Master”

[elisi]

Lol! TBF they are now in touch through that support group but yes... popped out without even checking if he had somewhere to go!
My memories are hazy, but he definitely has parents. So presumably he could stay with them. (I remember the parents, because the actress they cast as his mother is 9 years older than him. It was not good casting. BUT. It established that he had support.)

I love how it took the doctor just three regenerations to go all the way from:
*breath shaking, eyes wide with fear* “Master” to *Jesus christ not this clown-lord again* “Master”
Amazing post, although I take issue with 'fear'. I think there are a LOT of emotions, possibly including fear, but that's WAY down the list...

[topaz_eyes]

But Thirteen's companions never stepped up the same way — Yaz being the exception, probably, in that she became very skilful, but did she ever save the day, the way most Companions do straight out of the gate?

Yaz was saving the day as early as "Praxeus". Which people really should watch, because that episode foreshadows the Timeless Child story through Adam. Thirteen sends Yaz and Graham to Hong Kong to investigate strange signals, where Yaz finds and rescues Adam, the astronaut who'd been captured and infected with the Praxeus organism.

One can say Ryan saved the day by rescuing Gabriela in Peru. He also dissected the dead bird that provided the clue as to what was happening with Praxeus. And Graham saved the day by... holding a fatherly conversation with Jake, which gave Jake the push he needed to step up at the end.

Yaz then goes off to investigate the plastic world with Gabriela as her companion, and learns how the signals were being generated. She'd thought they'd landed on another planet, when it was the undersea plastic world in the Indian Ocean. Either way, Yaz's investigation was how they got to deliver the lifesaving cure for Praxeus to the world. (And Thirteen was not happy at all that Yaz did that, but Thirteen had no choice.)

Adam goes on to save the world from Praxeus infection, thanks to the antidote the Doctor tested on him. Meanwhile, his estranged husband Jake flies the spacecraft that delivers and releases the antidote when the autopilot fails.

(There's an entire parallel between Adam/Thirteen and Jake/the Master in this episode that's really fascinating. It's such an under-rated episode imho.)

I would say that Thirteen never really wanted her companions to step up and save the day. Because Thirteen lost a companion right out of the gate: Grace, the nurse who fell off a crane and died in "The Woman Who Fell To Earth" while helping the Doctor save Karl. Grace was part of the original group of Yaz, Ryan, and Graham. I remember how Grace acted like a real Companion throughout the episode. I wanted Grace to be a companion so badly--but I think her death so early on, rattled Thirteen so much that she went overboard in trying to protect the rest of the group, her fam, from danger. (As Isagrimorie notes, there's a straight line between Twelve and Thirteen.) But eventually Yaz, Ryan, and Graham do step up, because that's what happens when you travel with the Doctor.

[elisi]

Yaz was saving the day as early as "Praxeus".
... I have watched all of Thirteen's episodes, but they just don't stick. So thank you for typing all this up, it's very useful and it's great to have it all laid out.

However I'd say 'as late as' rather than 'early'. A season and a half in is far from the 'first or second episode' that is the norm. (Not saying that this is good or bad, it's just different.)

Also I'm glad you brought up Grace, because she was very much the proto-companion, the sort that the Doctor would latch onto and invite along - although she instead joined the ranks of Astrid or Rita: Perfect companions who sacrificed themselves/got killed. Which is interesting... The companion template was there, it was just undermined.

And yes, you can definitely see how Thirteen ties in with Twelve's trauma. And, to her credit, she kept all her companions alive and they left without heartbreak. The Toymaker had no ammunition there.

[topaz_eyes]

However I'd say 'as late as' rather than 'early'. A season and a half in is far from the 'first or second episode' that is the norm. (Not saying that this is good or bad, it's just different.)

Yes it is different--we're seeing the leadup to the companion's journey as it were.

The companion template was there, it was just undermined.

Undermined, or subverted?

You're right, normally companions prove themselves in their 1st or 2nd episode. But on some level that kind of overlooks a lot of people who would make excellent companions, but need more time, experience, and/or assistance in some way.

We meet Ryan in TWWFTE as he's struggling to learn how to ride a bike; we learn right away that he has dyspraxia which affects motor coordination. Graham recently finished cancer treatment and worries his cancer will return. Also, Ryan and Graham don't get along very well initially, and they must deal with their grief over losing Grace. We learn from S11's "The Witchfinders" that Yaz had been bullied as a child, and was depressed and almost suicidal from S12's "Can You Hear Me?"

Chibnall's tagline "Space. For All." suggests that anyone can succeed at being the Doctor's companion when given the chance. Thirteen gave them that chance in S11 and early S12 so that by "Praxeus" they step up as full-fledged companions. (Thinking about it, Ryan and Yaz begin to step up in "Fugitive of the Judoon". By then they realize Thirteen was keeping things from them and even confront her about it.)

And, to her credit, she kept all her companions alive and they left without heartbreak.

Thirteen didn't keep all her companions alive--she lost Grace. The difference was, Thirteen didn't abandon Ryan and Graham in their heartbreak. They continued to travel with her despite losing their grandmother/wife; given that chance to heal, they chose to leave on their terms, when they felt it was time to move on. (Ryan's last appearance in "Revolution of the Daleks is a coda that confirms Ryan's and Graham's growth over their time with the Doctor.)

Yaz didn't have a choice about leaving the Doctor; there was heartbreak for Yaz. By then Graham had set up the companion support group however, so Yaz had people to help her through. Compared to other companions, the fam ended in a good place so Thirteen didn't carry the same guilt over them.

[elisi]

Yes it is different--we're seeing the leadup to the companion's journey as it were.
I just feel that they should have done more with Yaz, she was so competent. She deserved time to shine earlier on.

Undermined, or subverted? You're right, normally companions prove themselves in their 1st or 2nd episode. But on some level that kind of overlooks a lot of people who would make excellent companions, but need more time, experience, and/or assistance in some way.
Subverted is a good word. :) I like Classic Who and it was nice to have companions that weren't all the most super-special person in the world. However it probably didn't help the overall dissatisfaction from viewers. I have watched a good chunk of Classic Who and could recognise what Chibnall was doing, and it still felt like the rhythm was off. Maybe he should have gone straight for the serial and just played to his strengths (Flux was mostly great), rather than stand-alones that felt very static.

Chibnall's tagline "Space. For All." suggests that anyone can succeed at being the Doctor's companion when given the chance.
Yeah, I love that. I just wish it'd been more like Five's era? Maybe not with the literal alien princesses, since having 'normal' people travelling is great, but with a different focus. I remember Promethia and I fully expected to have a big TARDIS team and character-focussed stories. And then it wasn't really that either. *pokes Chibnall* What was your vision? Hmmm. Re Ryan and Graham and Yaz, then it reminds me a big of Torchwood, where we got the big character-background story episode towards the end of S2. But, by then we were already deeply attached to them - actually, that's what we were expecting: Torchwood (big team, complex characters and character-driven), but without the, um, ~adult aspects. I guess the lesson is never to have expectations. *g*

Thirteen didn't keep all her companions alive--she lost Grace.
True. And that much have affected her deeply.

The difference was, Thirteen didn't abandon Ryan and Graham in their heartbreak. They continued to travel with her despite losing their grandmother/wife; given that chance to heal, they chose to leave on their terms, when they felt it was time to move on. (Ryan's last appearance in "Revolution of the Daleks is a coda that confirms Ryan's and Graham's growth over their time with the Doctor.)
And many kudos to Thirteen for that.

Yaz didn't have a choice about leaving the Doctor; there was heartbreak for Yaz. By then Graham had set up the companion support group however, so Yaz had people to help her through.
I see Yaz a little like Eleven dropping off Amy and Rory, but for different reasons. Or Four leaving Sarah Jane. And Yaz - although Thirteen is an enigma, even to herself - gets a lot of honesty where it matters: 'I would have been you' and 'I need to be alone now'. (I totally think the writers dropped the ball on the whole thing, but as a character Thirteen did well.) Compare to Martha, where she basically had to explain to Ten why she was leaving.

Compared to other companions, the fam ended in a good place so Thirteen didn't carry the same guilt over them.
Now look RTD: This is POSSIBLE to do. (I don't think he'll listen. He likes drama...)

ETA: I think a lot of it comes down to which show you [general you] is watching. Here's a lovely quote that I dragged out for astrogirl, from an article which has long since vanished:

In new school Doctor Who fandom, fans are often watching very different shows. Some are watching the "Rose Tyler Show," and are vexed at the continued absence of the lead. Others tuned in late to enjoy the "Martha Jones Show," and were surprised but pleased when their show took over Torchwood for a while. While no one yet seems to be watching the "Donna Noble Show," Dr. Merlin has already observed a large shift among her friends to enjoying the "Ten and Donna Are the New Katharine Hepburn and Cary Grant But Could Also Totally Be Karen and Jack From Will and Grace Show," which one can only imagine is hard to fit on the title cards. Still other Who fans have been in the fandom long enough that they're just along for the ride (or else they're still watching the original "Sarah Jane Adventures" and wondering where Harry went).

[promethia_tenk]

Yaz was saving the day as early as "Praxeus" . . .
I didn't always feel like the big ensemble was used as well as it could have been in those years, but that episode is a very good example of how it should/could work, as you handily lay out.

(There's an entire parallel between Adam/Thirteen and Jake/the Master in this episode that's really fascinating. It's such an under-rated episode imho.)
I loved Praxius, but had never thought of it in this way. I think I see what you mean but may not be getting all the details--can you elaborate?

I wanted Grace to be a companion so badly--but I think her death so early on, rattled Thirteen so much that she went overboard in trying to protect the rest of the group, her fam, from danger.
This is an interesting insight; I'm going to have to try to hold it in mind the next time I try to watch the Chibnall years. I never felt like there was nothing going on there, but as elisi said, it was like nothing would stick. I feel like I finally have some footholds to work from. And thank you for the rec of isagrimoire you made in the other post--I've been poking through their commentary and finding it fruitful.

[topaz_eyes]

I didn't always feel like the big ensemble was used as well as it could have been

I completely agree, this is definitely a valid criticism about S11. Yaz was seriously underused and underwritten compared to the others. I was glad to see it improve in S12.

I loved Praxius, but had never thought of it in this way.

Here are 3 flaily links to my thoughts on "Praxeus" and "The Timeless Children" on my journal:

Wee Doctor Who drabble and flailing on "Praxeus" (ignore the drabble, it's silly)

Chibnall! You sneaky...

More scattered thoughts on "The Timeless Children"

It turns out I don't delve into the Jake/Master parallel in those posts, so I'll add here: the key to the parallel is in Jake's and Graham's chat on the beach. From the script:

JAKE WILLIS: My husband is an astronaut. You any idea how hard it is, being married to someone that impressive? (Beat) It sort of sends me the other way. Wallow in being unreliable. (quiet) Like I'm punishing him.

GRAHAM O’BRIEN: What for?

JAKE WILLIS: Not being honest.

GRAHAM O’BRIEN: Sorry, you've lost me.

JAKE WILLIS: If he's that impressive, if he's that amazing -- which he is -- (Beat) He can't love me, the way he says he does. (Beat) It doesn't make sense. Why would he?

GRAHAM O’BRIEN: Oh mate. I don't think he’s the one you're punishing.

Thirteen and the Master have an analogous moment in TTC after she learns she's the Timeless Child. From that script:

THE DOCTOR: It's all lies. None of this is the truth.

THE MASTER: For the first time in my lives, I can honestly say every word is true.

THE DOCTOR: I know my life. I know who I am.

THE MASTER: No. You don't. You never have. Your life has been hidden from you. (Beat) Our founding parents wanted a noble creation myth for the Time Lords -- born to rule.

THE DOCTOR: I remember my home. I remember growing up. I remember you -- and me -- at the Academy together.

THE MASTER: That happened. It just wasn't your first life.

THE DOCTOR: Why would they lie? Why would they do that?

THE MASTER: (Beat) I wish it wasn't true. But it is. (Beat) You know what I find the most infuriating? You always behaved like you were different. Like you were special. (Beat) (Beat) You can see why I'm angry. A little piece of you -- is in me. All I am is somehow because of you. (Beat) And believe me when I say I cannot bear that.

I do understand the not-sticking part: most of Moffat's era does not resonate with me the way RTD 1.0 and Chibnall's eras do. (The parts of Moffat's era that resonate with me, however, are brilliant.) It's nice to see fans reconciling Chibnall's work with the wider canon now that RTD 2.0 is incorporating some aspects of it.

[promethia_tenk]

I (plural) love it.

[elisi]

[promethia_tenk]

<3

[ragnarok_08]

Wow, this essay is just fantastic, and with such detail!

[elisi]

It's the product of... many weeks worth of discussion.

But overall I think it was just such a relief to finally be able to put Thirteen in context and work out what her era was about. ^_^

[astrogirl]

Wow, some fascinating stuff here. A lot of it is stuff I find very insightful and cool and fitting, and it puts a spin on things that I think I'd really, really like to embrace... if only I could get past the fact that apparently it was devastatingly important to me for over-identification reasons that the Doctor was Just Some Guy and not some sort of important cosmic entity, or a being who was different from everybody else on his planet because he really wasn't one of them at all. (Well, that, and the fact that, god help me, I agree with the Master about needing the two of them to be basically the same except for their moral choices. Even if, y'know, I'm a lot less murdery about it.)

But I am absolutely going to keep this in mind for if I ever do finally reach the acceptance stage of my grief for the version of the character who helped me reconcile my own lack-of-fitting-in with the idea that, no, actually, I am as valid a member of my species as anybody else. Because some of it might make me a lot happier then.

[elisi]

if only I could get past the fact that apparently it was devastatingly important to me for over-identification reasons that the Doctor was Just Some Guy and not some sort of important cosmic entity, or a being who was different from everybody else on his planet because he really wasn't one of them at all.
Oh I hear ya. But he is still Just A Guy. It'll be interesting to see if he ever finds his actual 'home' universe - and if his species is a bunch of dicks in stupid robes we can just say that he's not really changed much. *g*

However the whole 'adopted' thing does make him a lot more relatable, and I love that framing - the initial Timeless Child thing was a lot about liking it to Omelas, and although colonisation and abuse is sadly very relevant, again it's not very relatable. But this IS. If we start not from Gallifrey or Tecteun, but from the Doctor, it works much better.

Well, that, and the fact that, god help me, I agree with the Master about needing the two of them to be basically the same except for their moral choices. Even if, y'know, I'm a lot less murdery about it.
Oh MY HEART. I don't know what to do with the Master, he needs to come back (and be Dhawan, because the man is incredible), and they'll somehow need to fix my ship. Go on RTD, you know you want to...

But I am absolutely going to keep this in mind for if I ever do finally reach the acceptance stage of my grief for the version of the character who helped me reconcile my own lack-of-fitting-in with the idea that, no, actually, I am as valid a member of my species as anybody else. Because some of it might make me a lot happier then.
I think we can maybe compare the Doctor to Adam from Good Omens? He is Something Else, but chooses humanity as his family and his home. What's more important? Biology or connections/love?

[astrogirl]

However the whole 'adopted' thing does make him a lot more relatable,

More to some, less to others?

I mean... I've talked about this before, briefly, but it feels weirdly personal and I know it's way over-projecting and all that, but. Me, personally, I grew up as a misfit kid who felt like being in the world I was in was some kind of mistake, that I was too different from everyone else, that I related to things in ways so different from other people that I might as well be an alien. And it was a bit of a struggle to get past the idea that I was, effectively, "not one of these people," to realize how dangerous and toxic of an attitude that could be, to instead accept that, no, I am part of humanity, and even part of the normal variation of humanity. No better and no worse and with the same right to be here and the same connections to the world as everybody else. But I eventually got there, and, well, it wasn't until the whole Timeless Child thing that I realized just how much of a role model the Doctor had been in all of that. Because here was a guy who wasn't just weird because he was an alien. He was a weirdo among his own people. He was someone who could come from a world that was this cliche of stuffy advanced alien sticks-in-the-mud and still be his own ridiculous, amazing, eccentric self, still choose to follow his own path and his own moral compass. He could be the product of that world, as valid a product of it as anyone else, and still reject the parts of it that he disagreed with. And that could be a positive and wonderful thing.

And I know that Doctor Who telling us that, no, actually, he was really never one of them after all, especially combined with the implication that subconsciously he probably always knew it, and that's why he didn't fit in... I mean, I know -- I know -- that that's not the same as telling me, personally, "No, actually, you don't count as a real human after all," or, alternatively, "nope, you needed a way better excuse than you ever had to be that weird and that out of step with the people around you the whole time, sorry, ya freak." Because that would be insane. But it's going to take me a while to figure out how to get past feeling like it has. And, more sanely, to get over feeling like something that was thematically very important to me was abruptly yanked away.

Right now, I still have no idea quite what to do with that. Shifting perspectives and trying to look at it in other, more positive ways is all well and good, but it doesn't fill the void. What I have to do, I guess, is to find a way to let go of wanting the show, thematically, to be something it's decided not to be, probably without ever for half a second thinking about it the way I did, anyway.

Time is helping some, but reading this post, as awesome as it is in so many ways and as much as there is there that I'd like to be able to grab hold of, has made it clear to me that the pangs of that loss are still there for me.

I think we can maybe compare the Doctor to Adam from Good Omens? He is Something Else, but chooses humanity as his family and his home. What's more important? Biology or connections/love?

Adam is the exact opposite of a misfit, though, is the thing. Adam's story is the story of someone who very deeply belongs to and loves the world he grew up in, despite his origin elsewhere, and the choice he makes about who he is and who he's going to be reflects that. Whereas the Doctor's, I thought, was about someone who didn't at all fit in where he grew up, despite his origin there, and the choices he makes about who he is and who he's going to be reflect that. So Adam's story feels like "where you come from doesn't define who you are," and the Doctor's used to feel like that, but now it feels like, well... it sort of does, actually? A bit?

[elisi]

More to some, less to others?
Well my general frame of reference was War Crimes... (and the whole Omelas thing), so 'adopted' is something much more down to earth. Also I think I was just so *relieved* when we found out about Ruby's backstory and realised that RTD was doing something with the whole Timeless Child thing, because it was just this weird hot potato reveal that went nowhere.

However, that is probably of very little use to you, since your connection with the character is of a very different kind...

I don't remember you talking about your upbringing etc before (although that could just be my memory), but I can 100% see why you would latch onto the Doctor, and why the loss of that particular dimension to the character feels like such a loss. (It's late, I know how to write honest. But I can't think of better words right now.) I don't know that there is a good solution, although Doctor Who doesn't have a canon, so you can just ignore The Timeless Child if you want.

Whereas the Doctor's, I thought, was about someone who didn't at all fit in where he grew up, despite his origin there, and the choices he makes about who he is and who he's going to be reflect that. So Adam's story feels like "where you come from doesn't define who you are," and the Doctor's used to feel like that, but now it feels like, well... it sort of does, actually? A bit?
Hmm. I see what you mean, but - I don't know that it does? It's more that he isn't defined by where he's from (Gallifrey, or wherever). I quoted this bit at Promethia from Kim (by Kipling). I adore that book, but it's also the MOST 'here is how the British Empire works' worldview. Here's a relevant bit from when he's been sent to school (St Xavier’s) and the boys are telling tales instead of sleeping:

There were boys of fifteen who had spent a day and a half on an islet in the middle of a flooded river, taking charge, as by right, of a camp of frantic pilgrims returning from a shrine. There were seniors who had requisitioned a chance-met Rajah’s elephant, in the name of St Francis Xavier, when the Rains once blotted out the cart-track that led to their father’s estate, and had all but lost the huge beast in a quicksand.

And the Doctor has always traded on that - he's the Englishman Abroad, from the Empire that the sun never sets on. And that colonial mindset/purity has just been swept away. He is just a person now.

I have no idea if this is any help at all, like I said - I'm half-asleep. But this is sort of why we got excited about it. If there is nothing there for you, just ignore me. <3

[trobadora]

it was devastatingly important to me for over-identification reasons that the Doctor was Just Some Guy and not some sort of important cosmic entity, or a being who was different from everybody else on his planet because he really wasn't one of them at all. (Well, that, and the fact that, god help me, I agree with the Master about needing the two of them to be basically the same except for their moral choices.

This is 100% where I'm still at with this whole thing; thank you for articulating it so well!

[astrogirl]

I fear I may have articulated entirely too much of it honestly. Apologies to elisi for that, but, y'know, sometimes you just find yourself having to let it all out. :) Well, I guess it's nice to have company in my difficulties, although maybe eventually I'll manage to make my peace with it all. I've made some progress, at least!