Thoughts on issue 1 of S8. (Yes I finally read it...)

[elisi]

In general - I liked it. It’s early days, but since I was thoroughly spoiled I had no expectations of it being more or less than it was. And in one aspect I was pleasantly surprised...

That said, it didn’t ‘feel’ like the show - it felt like fanfic. This might be because I’ve read so much post-Chosen/NFA fanfic that this quite simply slots in as just another scenario. Sure it’s nice as a writer to get some ‘guidelines’ if set-up isn’t your cup of tea, but... I’ve read better. Maybe Joss will do something interesting with it - who knows?

Anyway, more specific thoughts under cut.

The art.
Hmmm - it’s fine I guess, but I do wish Buffy would look like Buffy. It’s very distracting to have to remind myself which one she’s supposed to be. (Why on earth do they 'not want the characters to look like the actors’? This strikes me as v. odd. Buffy wouldn’t be Buffy without SMG. Spike wouldn’t be Spike without JM etc.) Otherwise it’s very nice, if not spectacular in any way. (I grew up with Asterix and Elfquest and various others - Buffy the comic is so far perfectly competent, but not... striking.)

The ret-con.
Buffy: “One’s in Rome, partying very publicly -- and supposedly dating some guy called ‘The Immortal’. That part was Andrew’s idea. He did research on the guy, said it would be hilarious for some reason.”

Oh Andrew... Gotta say, this little ret-con makes TGiQ just that bit more delicious. Andrew obviously read up on The Immortal, found out about his old rivalry with Spike & Angel and thought it would be hilarious if ‘Buffy’ ‘moved on’ to him...

When they turn up at ‘Buffy’s door in TGiQ he must have thought that it was his birthday and Christmas come together! ;) But seriously - he needed to keep the real Buffy’s situation a secret, so he had to make sure that S&A believed the cover-story... so what did he do? Baited their petty rivalry as much as he could, making them too busy quarreling and hating The Immortal to notice anything that might blow his story. Spike and Angel of course played into his hands beautifully.

Government/Military/Initiative/Alliance.
*shrugs* I’m willing to wait. And it seems that they learned from The Initiative in Sunnydale - these guys are aware of (and ready to take advantage of) magic. And honestly it’d be odd for the government not to notice Buffy. I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt. And of course there’s Amy - has she ever been used as a serious threat before? (I mean in fic?)

Buffy.
Here we come to the center. Now the thing with me is that I’m willing to accept pretty much any (or no) plot if the characters ring true. And Joss, thank the Powers, did it! This panel is my favourite out of the whole comic, because that - right there - is *my* post-Chosen Buffy:



The self-same post-Chosen Buffy I’ve encountered in many a gorgeous fic (and written myself). A little older, a little wiser (but still messing up, because just because you’re a grown-up doesn’t mean you have all the answers), not depressed as in S6, nor faltering due to too heavy burdens (S7), but lost (“I miss my home”) and still somewhat cut off. She’s been through too much to just fall back into normal life and likes to do something, because otherwise she begins to think too much about all the things and people that are gone for good...

And then she (as usual) pulls herself together and gets on with it.

(Which is why in the end she’ll end up with Spike, because she deserves someone who understands her. And no one will ever understand her better than Spike. Fact.)

Um... where was I? So, Buffy rings true. That’s good. Especially since like most other people I find the whole new set-up rather unimpressive - where did the money come from for a start? (The Council must have had Swiss Bank Accounts!) And why all the high-tech gear? Just because they [Joss] now *can*, what with having an unlimited budget? Sorry, it just doesn’t work very well. Which is another reason I’m not hugely bothered by these comics - I have no sense this is what happened to Buffy the way Joss is now saying. Except in where her head is at. But since I’ll happily follow Buffy down the weirdest paths as long as she rings true, then I guess I’ll see where Joss takes her.

But it’s not canon. Sorry Joss.

(Oh and the ‘flying boots’ look nothing like Spike’s. Far too shiny and no buckles! (Yes I know he could have got some new ones post-Apocalypse, but...)

Incidentally, my perfect post-Chosen/NFA outcome is this: So This is How They Are by stultiloquentia (Do check it out, it’s not very long!). It might be compatible with the comics (more or less), and if so I’ll be very pleased. If not - well so be it. *I* know that that’s how the story goes! :)

ETA: Anyone out there who hasn't read the comic, but who'd like to? I might know a way...

Comments

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

Nods. That's pretty much my reaction to it, it's nice but... it reads like fan fiction. And as you say the characters could have looked a little more like the actors.
I'm just waiting to see where all this is heading and where he's taking my girl.

[elisi]

it's nice but... it reads like fan fiction.
Exactly. It's prettier than the rest of course, but doesn't really stand out.

I'm just waiting to see where all this is heading and where he's taking my girl.
Same here. I'm sure it'll be a great ride... although if it'll be better than others I've read is a question yet to be answered.

(Oh and I posted Spawn yesterday in case you missed it...)

[shapinglight]

Your thoughts on the comic are pretty similar to mine (now I've got things in perspective). My favourite pages are the ones of Buffy on her own, because they were the ones that seemed most like the show and were Buffy at her best.

The rest was okay but not brilliant (Giant Dawn is just silly and the accents were terrible!) and you're right. Joss can say what he likes but it's not canon. It just doesn't feel like canon.

Quite fun, though.

Can't agree with you on the Andrew stuff (but I guess you could've guessed that). Nothing on earth will ever get me to believe he has two brain cells to rub together and even if I did, what he's done here sounds like a particularly nasty school boy joke and I can't really think why he'd want to do that to Spike - Angel maybe, he doesn't know him, but not Spike. It just seemed cruel - though about what one might expect from the amoral little weasel.

[rahirah]

I think Andrew's smart enough to do something like that (and I also think that there's a decent chance that he's acting under Giles's orders.) I just question his motives. OK, fine, there are decoy Buffys. But whose decision is it that Angel and Spike aren't allowed to know this? Basically, does Buffy know and approve of Andrew's actions to keep Angel and Spike away from her, or not? And if she doesn't, is this going to be dealt with?

If she does know and approve, I think that pretty much scotches any chance of either a happy B/A or B/S reunion. (Not that I think there's much chance of that anyway.) And either way, it definitely scotches the fanon that Andrew is Spike's bestest pal evah and the only one who really wuvs him.

[elisi]

Your thoughts on the comic are pretty similar to mine
Yes I think so too (I read your post).

My favourite pages are the ones of Buffy on her own, because they were the ones that seemed most like the show and were Buffy at her best.
*nods*

Joss can say what he likes but it's not canon. It just doesn't feel like canon.
My feelings exactly.

And I know how you feel about Andrew, so I won't even bother to defend him. I just think he's funny, and I'm sure he'll get smacked around enough for you to be satisfied! ;)

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you find it good. :) I liked it. I think the least thing I liked was Giant!Dawn. I don't know, I mean it's better than what some used to assume, that Dawn might be pregnant, but still, it seemed very comic-like and not TV-show-like, and yeah, I know it's a comic, but still. I can't express my thoughts well.

I liked Buffy and Xander a lot here. They feel very brother-sister like, I can also hear SMG and NB in the scene where they discuss the symbol. I've always assumed Xander will be with Buffy and Dawn just like in S7. So I'm glad Joss thought the same way as well.

Buffy and Dawn aren't close anymore, shows in S7, and I'm so glad they're touching that angle. The Scooby I'm mostly interested to know about is Giles. I wish to know his side on the whole Fred/Illyria thing, and how he doesn't trust Angel anymore because Angel chose to join the enemy.

[elisi]

I think the least thing I liked was Giant!Dawn.
It's an instance of 'they did it because they could', which is never the best way to do things. Ah well.

I can also hear SMG and NB in the scene where they discuss the symbol.
"I think it's a beautiful sunset." Yes, I liked that too. :)

Buffy and Dawn aren't close anymore, shows in S7, and I'm so glad they're touching that angle.
Well they were close in the beginning of S7. I'd like to get that back.

I wish to know his side on the whole Fred/Illyria thing
Well 'his side' is Angel calling up asking for Willow - he never got the whole story. Or any story at all.

[demonbrat-98.livejournal.com]

ETA: Anyone out there who hasn't read the comic, but who'd like to? I might know a way...

Oh - me!!!

I'm planning on buying Season 8 in one of those lovely trade editions, but I would love to read it before then!

Jenn

[elisi]

Could I have your e-mail address please?

Oh and you never met me! ;)

[aurora]

Hey! I found your post through the su-herald, and I would also be interested in seeing the comic (not being in the US sucks sometimes).

Thanks so much in advance.

[elisi]

Hey, my pleasure. And anyway, apparently it's all sold out now...

[the-nites-gurl.livejournal.com]

you might know a way? :)

[elisi]

Indeed. ::looks shifty::

[jalbasmg.livejournal.com]

ETA: Anyone out there who hasn't read the comic, but who'd like to? I might know a way...

I would like to read it.

[elisi]

And so you shall. *waves magic wand*

[empresspatti.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the comic - but don't know if I need to with since I can count on you to give the straight scoop - with analysis.

I think the only reason Josh is doint this is becasue his other work fell through. I know that is mean spirited - but there it is. I just hope he doesn't mess with my Spuffy to much!

Thanks for all you do.

[elisi]

but don't know if I need to with since I can count on you to give the straight scoop - with analysis.
Gosh - that's quite a responsibility! I'm honoured. (Also I can't help it... this writing this is like a disease.)

I know that is mean spirited - but there it is.
Well he's the only Buffy writer who gets *paid* to write fanfic - considering how often the rest of us wished we could live off it, I can't blame him! And as for Spuffy... *shrugs* It's not canon, no matter what he says.

Thanks for all you do.
Aw... ::is touched:: Thank you for all your comments etc - and your always entertaining posts. I can't make RL interesting to save my life!

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I'd be interested ;)


frelling_tralk@yahoo.co.uk

[stultiloquentia.livejournal.com]

I like your assessment. You hit the points I'm interested in, and your opinions tend to line up with mine. I have my own post-NFA Andrew fanon that lets him grow up and be clever and useful, if still Andrewish, so I'm pleased by what you say about comic!Andrew. And Buffy is Buffy, good, good, but no more or less so than a hundred fanfic Buffys. It's our turn, Joss, dear...but you may help contribute to our sandbox. ;)

That's an incredibly flattering rec. Thank you!

[elisi]

I like your assessment. You hit the points I'm interested in, and your opinions tend to line up with mine.
*nods* (And since you wrote my perfect post-NFA scenario, then that's not surprising! *g*)

I have my own post-NFA Andrew fanon that lets him grow up and be clever and useful, if still Andrewish
Same here. (Unless yours is written down?) Let's hope Joss does something good with him!

It's our turn, Joss, dear...but you may help contribute to our sandbox. ;)
Bwah! But yes! Exactly! :)

That's an incredibly flattering rec. Thank you!
My pleasure. If I had Joss' address I'd send it to him!

[awmp.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree. It was not as bad as I feared, but it is certainly not canon.
just because you can do everything in comics doesn't mean you have to. you have to do what the story requires. they kinda forgot that. and that's fine. it's their fanfic ;) they can do whatever they want with it.

I'm glad that Buffy felt a little bit buffyish to me. I love the character way too much so I would have been really pissed if they hadn't done her justice.

I still hate the whole militaristic (is this even a word in English, I'm too tired to look it up *g*) set-up. and hell, where is the money from (Kennedy's parents?? I mean their house had wings!!)?

I'm also not impressed by the artwork.

but as I said... I expected much worse. I'm not in love with it, but I don't hate it either... (wait, is indifferent not supposed to be the worst? *g*)

[elisi]

I pretty much agree. It was not as bad as I feared, but it is certainly not canon.
:) That said, it is of course just the very first tiny bit - who knows where it might go? I'm sure it'll be a great story though. But not canon.

I love the character way too much so I would have been really pissed if they hadn't done her justice.
Same here. I'm reading the comics almost solely for her sake - I like all the Scoobies, but I'm just not that bothered when it comes down to it...

I still hate the whole militaristic (is this even a word in English, I'm too tired to look it up *g*) set-up
Yes it's a word (*g*) and I agree. Joss better explain that one, considering that Buffy is "I've often patrolled in this halter!" girl.

hell, where is the money from
Swiss Bank accounts.

I'm also not impressed by the artwork.
I'm not surprised, given your incredible flair with graphics! And the show was so often so beautiful (and heck 'Serenity' is stunning visually) - I just wish we could see a little more of that. More boldness in the drawing, more inventive colouring... *something*.

wait, is indifferent not supposed to be the worst? *g*
Heee! Currently I'm in love with shapinglight's very dark and delicious 'Family Reunion' - Fanged Four with a difference. I'm hoping that the comics will bring at least a *little* darkness...

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

Nicely said! I kind of enjoyed it, but it didn't blow mw away. And I seem to be the only one who liked Giant! Dawn.

Reserving judgment on the boots!

[elisi]

Nicely said! I kind of enjoyed it, but it didn't blow mw away.
That does seem to be the general consensus. But then Joss was never good at the season openers... they're usually OK, but not special.

And I seem to be the only one who liked Giant! Dawn.
I've got nothing against Giant!Dawn... and I want to know what a thricewise is!

Reserving judgment on the boots!
If it is indeed Spike flying around, then there better be a *very* good explanation. He's supposed to be all Road Warrior with Angel in post-Apocalypse LA!

[sweetookami.livejournal.com]

Any chance I could get in on the Buffy comic sneak-peakage?
sweet_angel_ookami @ yahoo.com

[adoxerella.livejournal.com]

I like your thoughts. There was a bit of a fanfic feel, but I think part of that might be from the comic format. I thought Joss' run of the Angel comic had a similar feel when I read it in pieces, but it held together a lot more when I reread it as one whole group (I thought the same thing about the Serenity comic). Maybe Joss just doesn't serialize well.

As for the art. Yes, dammit, why can't the characters look like the actors, and why is it so damn hit and miss. For example, it seems they can only draw DB when he is being a dork (points to icon). The only one who seems mostly immune to this is Spike. For some reason, he almost always looks like JM. Go figure.

Also, thanks again for the sneak peak. Now I just have to be patient for Shadow Puppets, cause that shite is going to be like crack. Wheee!

[elisi]

I like your thoughts.
Thank you. :)

Maybe Joss just doesn't serialize well.
It is *very* short. Like a quarter of an episode. I'm looking forward to having more than a snippet to look at.

As for the art. Yes, dammit, why can't the characters look like the actors, and why is it so damn hit and miss.
*shakes head sadly* Indeed. Also it's just a bit bland... I wish they'd make it stand out more - make the drawings more interesting, or the colouring or something!

For some reason, he almost always looks like JM. Go figure.
Cheekbones!

Also, thanks again for the sneak peak.
My pleasure. And since someone sent it to *me* I figured it'd only be polite to keep sharing. :)

Now I just have to be patient for Shadow Puppets, cause that shite is going to be like crack. Wheee!
Puppet!Spike! *happy sigh*

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Hmm. It didn’t feel exactly like the show but then it’s one issue of one comic (give it time) and it’s a comic not TV. But it didn’t feel like fanfic to me either for several reasons. Most fanfic I’ve read (and I used to read a lot) focuses on one romance or one character to a far, far greater extent than the show ever did. This comic already has that wider scope, in the few pages we have it looks at Buffy herself, her relationship with Dawn, with Xander and with the new slayers, Xander himself, his relationships with Buffy, Dawn and the new slayers. The new world order is introduced and new little/big bads.

The comic also has that mix of genre’s that characterised the show but is rare in fanfic, it has big giant Dawn, (which is both funny, unexpected, self–referential and a great metaphor for how people feel after their first time) and it has Buffy missing her mom. It has gross monster slayage and quips about cheese, girls jumping from helicopter and old friends sharing a sandwich.

Most of all the thing I find with fanfic is that it’s always trying to solve the problems it perceives with canon past rather than address new issues whereas the shows move on Sure things come back to bite people but they don’t build whole seasons around those events. Connor and Wesley get their memories back they react and then more shit happens. It’s early to tell but the feeling that I get with these comics is that it’s not going to focus on Buffy’s relationship with Spike or being a normal girl or integrating her dark side but with dealing with having grown up and become a full player in the system instead of a maverick ex-instrument.

[elisi]

But it didn’t feel like fanfic to me either for several reasons.
And very good reasons they are too! :) I see what you're saying - and yes, it is definitely wide in scope and scale, focussing on many different story strands and characters just like the show. And the fact that comics are a visual medium like TV helps in that way. Fanfic, being written word, usually also affords one or several viewpoints, letting us into the character's head to a far greater extent than TV ever could, and thus differing quite a lot in the way it approaches the telling of the story. But - we saw Joss make use of that self-same trick with Buffy - something impossible on TV.

Most fanfic I’ve read (and I used to read a lot) focuses on one romance or one character to a far, far greater extent than the show ever did.
Ah now, that *is* true! But there are virtual seasons out there attempting to avoid that. ATS No Limits is one, Three Deep another - and there's plenty of gen fic for those that want it. Personally I have no problem with S8 being non-shippy, although I am far more interested in seeing what Joss'll do with the AtS crew in S6.

the feeling that I get with these comics is that it’s not going to focus on Buffy’s relationship with Spike or being a normal girl or integrating her dark side but with dealing with having grown up and become a full player in the system instead of a maverick ex-instrument.
*nods* Past issues are gone and dealt with, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it all goes. But most of all I think that unless it's on my TV screen with SMG, NB, AH, MT etc it'll never be the same. S8 (I hope) will be a wonderful ride, but it'll never feel like canon, quite simply because of the medium.

[prophcygrl.livejournal.com]

You've got me curious! I'd love to read it.

prophcygrl@hotmail.com

[lilred26x.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed reading your take on the comic. I haven't read it yet, but I'd definitely be interested. My email is glmcam26x@yahoo.com Thanks so much!

[garfpooky.livejournal.com]

I've surfed my way over to your page and having just recently finished watching the entire Buffy series on DVD, I'm dying to read the comic! Please? :) GarfPooky (at) gmail.com

Thank you!

[garfpooky.livejournal.com]

Thanks again for sending me the comic!

It’s very distracting to have to remind myself which one she’s supposed to be.
SO TRUE.

I'm going to friend you, btw...hope you don't mind. :)

[japanimecrazed.livejournal.com]

After reading your analysis, I'd also like to give the comic a try.

japanimecrazed@aol.com

[elisi]

After reading your analysis, I'd also like to give the comic a try.
Forgot to say that this was very flattering. Thank you! :)

[linwick.livejournal.com]

Me too please -

llodwick at austin dot rr dot com

Thanks

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I finally got to read it, and I really (and surprisingly) liked it. My review is here if you're interested.

Oh and the ‘flying boots’ look nothing like Spike’s. Far too shiny and no buckles! (Yes I know he could have got some new ones post-Apocalypse, but...)

Was that supposed to be Spike just, what, handing around on a cable or something? I must be terribly slow because I honestly had no idea what the frack that was supposed to be. *g*

[elisi]

My review is here if you're interested.
::runs off to read:: (It's always nice to see someone liking it!)

I must be terribly slow because I honestly had no idea what the frack that was supposed to be. *g*
I doubt I would have noticed if lots of other people hadn't mentioned it!