Not sure this has anything to do with Valentines...

[elisi]

Well, here are some thoughts (not original I'm afraid, these are borrowed from all over and put together with sticky-backed plastic!) on the B/A kiss in EoD/Chosen:

There’s a lovely long discussion of the B/A kiss and the B/S relationship in molly_may’s latest post, and it got me thinking. Only there’s this thing that happenes when I think too much, and I decided to do my own post instead of spamming... this might get long!

Now, the B/A scene (to me) says ‘nostalgia’. The characters, the actors, the writers, the crew... I think they all went “Aw, look - it's Angel! How tall and handsome he is, how heroic, and how straight his hair grows (and that does look kinda stupid, funny how we never noticed before)...” It all about looking back. Buffy gets to have a little ‘time out’ - away from her problems and RL complications. Angel is safe - because he is no longer a part of her life. And much like she could with Spike in early S6, she can offload on Angel to some extent. She can flirt a little, she can be silly - he’ll leave anyway (because she’ll make him - this time it’s her call!). And I’m sure those feelings are shared by Angel. Those who’ve been watching AtS know that he’s just given up his son, mind wiped all his friends, Cordelia is in a coma and he’s taken over Evil inc. He’s not in a good place. So what does he do - he plays the part of ‘the big hero’ and the jealous ex... it’s an outlet. Despite Buffy’s “Sometimes, I do think that far ahead” they both know it’ll never happen... as AtS S5 goes on to show. When Buffy finds out who he’s now working for, she lets Angel know in no uncertain terms that they’re not even friends anymore.

Also - one thing that struck me about the kiss. The last time that Buffy and Angel kissed (that we saw anyway) was in 'Forever'. And that kiss was... well, very Bangel. I want you, but I can't have you and oh! The Angst! The kiss in Chosen - nothing. No sudden, desperate need, no 'You'd better leave because I can't help myself'. It's a - I hate to say it, but it's a happy kiss. There's 'basking' and 'Gee - what are you doing here?' and basically they're kinda comfortable. There is NO angst, no urges that have to be suppressed - no fire. They're quite simply two exes who meet and aren't about to hook up again. But onto the main point...

Basically, Angel shows up on BtVS for three reasons - the first two are to give Buffy the amulet and for her to be able to do her ‘cookie’-speech, to show how she’s maturing and realising that all this relationship stuff is difficult and she’s not ready to settle down yet. But we didn’t need for them to kiss to do that. A hug would be fine. And the kiss is not there to show that Buffy and Angel are somehow destined to be together. No, the kiss is there for the third reason - Spike!

In ‘Touched’ Spike gives a beautiful speech to Buffy about his love for her. That it’s essentially selfless - he needs nothing from her, he asks nothing of her. Loving her is enough. But... love needs testing. In ‘Intervention’ Spike’s love was tested and was proven to be real. That’s not the question here. We all know that the love is real - but is is truly selfless? Can he live up to his words?

At the end of ‘End of Days’ Buffy and Angel fall into each other’s arms and kiss. But that’s not the end of the episode - it’s only a set-up. The camera goes from the couple to focus on the person standing in the shadows, the one it’s all about... Spike. Will he pass the test or will he turn to the evil spirit whispering nasty words in his ear? Because S7 - and Chosen in particular - is All. About. Spike. That last shot makes it very clear that the outcome of the big battle will have nothing to do with Buffy or Angel, and everything to do with a peroxide blond vampire.

So I don’t mind the kiss... much.

Happy Valentines! ;)

Comments

[elisi]

A thousand "You're welcome"-s back to you! :)

I don't know if you had time to read all the threads, but there are a lot of discussions about the way Angel acts, knowing what he's just gone through. But this point: I guess it's setting up the storyline very nicely as well for AtS 5 where HE's got to grow too is a very good one, and not one I've seen before. And actually, in S5, he isn't really 'the hero' anymore... it's a role he tries to play, but it doesn't sit all that comfortably anymore!

And re. the passion... I actually sat down and watched the relevant scene in 'Forever' and the difference is astounding. How the Bangel-shippers can turn the Chosen kiss into a confirmation of their ship is very strange. There is just no sparkage!

[lillianmorgan.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you had time to read all the threads,
No I didn't although I think I'd like to now that I'm getting my head around the topic. I'll come back to this later.
Nice icon btw. Spike has a very prominent role :)

[elisi]

I'll come back to this later.
Looking forward to seeing you! :)

Nice icon btw. Spike has a very prominent role :)
Heh. Well, he does have a rather prominent role generally, and he loves to sit on my lap when I'm on the computer, so I thought it very fitting.

Right now I've fallen in love with this new icon by andemaiar

[lillianmorgan.livejournal.com]

Right now I've fallen in love with this new icon by andemaiar
Yowzers there were some good ones on that post of hers! :)

[lillianmorgan.livejournal.com]

OK so I went away and read all the comments, so now you've got a great galumping amount of waffle......which I feel really sheepish about....
Hmm, I though about approaching this from another angle. What was Angel's motivation to kiss Buffy like that? Did he know Spike was around the corner? Was it all about asserting his dominance? I don't want to think badly of Angel, but every time I contemplate this scene I end up feeling sorry for Spike and annoyed with Angel and Buffy. Angel goes up and kisses Buffy - is he merely trying to escape too? He's just given up Connor and nobody likes him anymore - maybe it's a huge ego boost to him, that there's still Buffy willing to kiss away the thought of all his problems. Maybe, therefore, escapism is a better word than nostalgia. And that ties well with the dreamlike quality that avrelia mentioned.
Maybe it goes someway to what thedeadlyhook's trying to get at in The Center - that Spike discovers his maturity, but that Angel and Buffy aren't necessarily there yet. It's all very 17 to want to run up to your first love and give them a kiss like that.
I was intrigued by what paratti said - and I still haven't found a satisfactory answer as to why Buffy's final word is "Spike" (ok apart from the really romantic one that she does love him). The more I think about that final scene in Chosen, the more unsatisfied I become with it - I suppose the lack of mourning for Spike and Anya is most poignant.
molly_may wrote: Buffy can always be comfortable with the knowledge that Angel is going to leave her. He *always* leaves her. It's one of the defining traits of their relationship.
Yes, that's true, but does that mean she can ride roughshod over Spike's feelings because she knows he won't leave? I think it's important, then, in fanfiction for Spike to define himself - away from both Buffy and Angel. They are powerful and dominant forces in his development - but he needs to find out himself as well. Part of the joy and disappointment maybe in AtS 5?
And that maybe goes some way to describing the kiss - they are in control and selfish people. Spike would never do that to either Buffy or Angel - he knows what it's like to have your heart cut up into a thousand pieces. I'm not saying that any of this is "bad" - just that Angel and Buffy are alike in many ways, and Spike is different.
Loads and loads of interesting thoughts in all the threads - definitely a keeper! :) And I definitely appreciate your positive outlook. Feel free to tell me if I'm getting too negative!

[elisi]

So many good points, and I feel all inadequate and unable to reply properly. Instead I'll just point you in the direction of this post by jonesiexxx, which is quite simply the best analysis I've ever come across (of the episode as a whole).