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Not sure this has anything to do with Valentines...
Well, here are some thoughts (not original I'm afraid, these are borrowed from all over and put together with sticky-backed plastic!) on the B/A kiss in EoD/Chosen:
There’s a lovely long discussion of the B/A kiss and the B/S relationship in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
molly_may’s latest post, and it got me thinking. Only there’s this thing that happenes when I think too much, and I decided to do my own post instead of spamming... this might get long!
Now, the B/A scene (to me) says ‘nostalgia’. The characters, the actors, the writers, the crew... I think they all went “Aw, look - it's Angel! How tall and handsome he is, how heroic, and how straight his hair grows (and that does look kinda stupid, funny how we never noticed before)...” It all about looking back. Buffy gets to have a little ‘time out’ - away from her problems and RL complications. Angel is safe - because he is no longer a part of her life. And much like she could with Spike in early S6, she can offload on Angel to some extent. She can flirt a little, she can be silly - he’ll leave anyway (because she’ll make him - this time it’s her call!). And I’m sure those feelings are shared by Angel. Those who’ve been watching AtS know that he’s just given up his son, mind wiped all his friends, Cordelia is in a coma and he’s taken over Evil inc. He’s not in a good place. So what does he do - he plays the part of ‘the big hero’ and the jealous ex... it’s an outlet. Despite Buffy’s “Sometimes, I do think that far ahead” they both know it’ll never happen... as AtS S5 goes on to show. When Buffy finds out who he’s now working for, she lets Angel know in no uncertain terms that they’re not even friends anymore.
Also - one thing that struck me about the kiss. The last time that Buffy and Angel kissed (that we saw anyway) was in 'Forever'. And that kiss was... well, very Bangel. I want you, but I can't have you and oh! The Angst! The kiss in Chosen - nothing. No sudden, desperate need, no 'You'd better leave because I can't help myself'. It's a - I hate to say it, but it's a happy kiss. There's 'basking' and 'Gee - what are you doing here?' and basically they're kinda comfortable. There is NO angst, no urges that have to be suppressed - no fire. They're quite simply two exes who meet and aren't about to hook up again. But onto the main point...
Basically, Angel shows up on BtVS for three reasons - the first two are to give Buffy the amulet and for her to be able to do her ‘cookie’-speech, to show how she’s maturing and realising that all this relationship stuff is difficult and she’s not ready to settle down yet. But we didn’t need for them to kiss to do that. A hug would be fine. And the kiss is not there to show that Buffy and Angel are somehow destined to be together. No, the kiss is there for the third reason - Spike!
In ‘Touched’ Spike gives a beautiful speech to Buffy about his love for her. That it’s essentially selfless - he needs nothing from her, he asks nothing of her. Loving her is enough. But... love needs testing. In ‘Intervention’ Spike’s love was tested and was proven to be real. That’s not the question here. We all know that the love is real - but is is truly selfless? Can he live up to his words?
At the end of ‘End of Days’ Buffy and Angel fall into each other’s arms and kiss. But that’s not the end of the episode - it’s only a set-up. The camera goes from the couple to focus on the person standing in the shadows, the one it’s all about... Spike. Will he pass the test or will he turn to the evil spirit whispering nasty words in his ear? Because S7 - and Chosen in particular - is All. About. Spike. That last shot makes it very clear that the outcome of the big battle will have nothing to do with Buffy or Angel, and everything to do with a peroxide blond vampire.
So I don’t mind the kiss... much.
Happy Valentines! ;)
There’s a lovely long discussion of the B/A kiss and the B/S relationship in
molly_may’s latest post, and it got me thinking. Only there’s this thing that happenes when I think too much, and I decided to do my own post instead of spamming... this might get long!Now, the B/A scene (to me) says ‘nostalgia’. The characters, the actors, the writers, the crew... I think they all went “Aw, look - it's Angel! How tall and handsome he is, how heroic, and how straight his hair grows (and that does look kinda stupid, funny how we never noticed before)...” It all about looking back. Buffy gets to have a little ‘time out’ - away from her problems and RL complications. Angel is safe - because he is no longer a part of her life. And much like she could with Spike in early S6, she can offload on Angel to some extent. She can flirt a little, she can be silly - he’ll leave anyway (because she’ll make him - this time it’s her call!). And I’m sure those feelings are shared by Angel. Those who’ve been watching AtS know that he’s just given up his son, mind wiped all his friends, Cordelia is in a coma and he’s taken over Evil inc. He’s not in a good place. So what does he do - he plays the part of ‘the big hero’ and the jealous ex... it’s an outlet. Despite Buffy’s “Sometimes, I do think that far ahead” they both know it’ll never happen... as AtS S5 goes on to show. When Buffy finds out who he’s now working for, she lets Angel know in no uncertain terms that they’re not even friends anymore.
Also - one thing that struck me about the kiss. The last time that Buffy and Angel kissed (that we saw anyway) was in 'Forever'. And that kiss was... well, very Bangel. I want you, but I can't have you and oh! The Angst! The kiss in Chosen - nothing. No sudden, desperate need, no 'You'd better leave because I can't help myself'. It's a - I hate to say it, but it's a happy kiss. There's 'basking' and 'Gee - what are you doing here?' and basically they're kinda comfortable. There is NO angst, no urges that have to be suppressed - no fire. They're quite simply two exes who meet and aren't about to hook up again. But onto the main point...
Basically, Angel shows up on BtVS for three reasons - the first two are to give Buffy the amulet and for her to be able to do her ‘cookie’-speech, to show how she’s maturing and realising that all this relationship stuff is difficult and she’s not ready to settle down yet. But we didn’t need for them to kiss to do that. A hug would be fine. And the kiss is not there to show that Buffy and Angel are somehow destined to be together. No, the kiss is there for the third reason - Spike!
In ‘Touched’ Spike gives a beautiful speech to Buffy about his love for her. That it’s essentially selfless - he needs nothing from her, he asks nothing of her. Loving her is enough. But... love needs testing. In ‘Intervention’ Spike’s love was tested and was proven to be real. That’s not the question here. We all know that the love is real - but is is truly selfless? Can he live up to his words?
At the end of ‘End of Days’ Buffy and Angel fall into each other’s arms and kiss. But that’s not the end of the episode - it’s only a set-up. The camera goes from the couple to focus on the person standing in the shadows, the one it’s all about... Spike. Will he pass the test or will he turn to the evil spirit whispering nasty words in his ear? Because S7 - and Chosen in particular - is All. About. Spike. That last shot makes it very clear that the outcome of the big battle will have nothing to do with Buffy or Angel, and everything to do with a peroxide blond vampire.
So I don’t mind the kiss... much.
Happy Valentines! ;)
no subject
And TGIQ. I just don't see that there's anything in the episode that says that Andrew's speaking for Buffy. Ultimately, that's why TGIQ never bothers me...it's everyone's view of Buffy without us ever getting to hear her side of what's going on. So we don't actually know anything. We don't know if she knows Spike's alive, we don't know what she feels for the Immortal, we don't know what she's gone through in the past year. And so, to me, it's just ridiculous to make any judgements on whether she's grown up, changed, regressed, become a fickle bitch, etc. when we never even get to see her.
no subject
Yes Spike was scared, and I don't blame him. I cut him as much slack after his resurrection as I did Buffy after hers.
Kathleen
no subject
Also I *love* all the points that
no subject
1)Her father leaving and parents divorce
2)finding out the monsters are real and she has to kill them
3)Move to a new community
4)finding she can't outrun her "destiny", must save the world nightly and TRY to do high school work at the same time (meanwhile keeping it all secret from mom)
5) finding out she's prophacied to die, and does
6)having her "first" experience unleash hell
7)losing her first love without even a goodbye kiss
8)getting a new "sister" and discovering false memories
9)mom dies while Buffy is trying to protect mom and sister from a hellgod
10)loses first "Normal" boyfriend and most hope for normal anything
11)drops out of college, feels a stupid failure
12)meets an enemy she feels she can't defeat (Glory)
13) loses sister to Glory and has total mental/emotional breakdown with no recovery time allowed or therapy after
14)dies in sisters place
15)pulled from heaven and peace by "Friends" who make it clear they expect her to just pick up where she left off as "The Slayer"
16) is hit with overwhelming bills, household for upkeep, and becoming a "mother" to a teen
17)"protecting"her friends sensibilities
18) abandoned by father figure, Giles, who also lets her know that her friends need help and SHE is the one who needs to do this
so much more along with patrolling nightly and work, etc. All at the age of 22!!!
It's a miracle she was sane! That's the woman Spike saw and that's the woman he loved.
Kathleen
worday as usual!
no subject
That's the woman Spike saw and that's the woman he loved.
Oh, yes! Thank you so much for all your wonderful comments! :)