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Doctor Who S11.04 Arachnids in the UK
See gif. This was a fun episode. The spiders were scary (and very well done) – I practically whooped with delight when the big one BROKE THROUGH THE BATH – not-Trump was HILARIOUS (haters to the left, I loved him), there was lots of running about, the Ed Sheeran joke!, and I was thoroughly entertained throughout. Like Classic Who, but not stretched out over 4 or 6 episodes.
• The episode coloured in the space around Yaz, so that was nice. We still don’t know much about her interior, her thoughts and hopes and motivations, but this is better than nothing.
• I think Ryan might be my favourite. He’s not very fleshed out, but his character comes across strongly quite simply in what he says and does.
• Graham keeps getting the meatiest stuff to work with. (See promethia’s post here for a related rant, if you are unhappy with the show prioritising the narrative of the straight white man.) Re. the issue of him wanting Ryan to call him ‘grandad’ (which a lot of people seem to dislike) it strikes me that he doesn’t have much of a family, and from how he talks he wasn’t married before meeting Grace. So I think he is someone very aware that he’s got a 2nd chance – not just at life, but at having a family, and wants to keep hold of what he’s been given. He doesn’t go about it in the best way, but hey-ho, there are worse things.
• Jodie keeps being delightful, and the dramatic flourish whenever she sonics something is adorable. The anti-gun stance is rather ridiculous, but I am hoping it’s building towards something. I’m not saying it’s out of character – it’s a perfectly logical response to having been Twelve (who would probably have shot the spiders himself). But considering all the character stuff we are getting for Graham, where is Thirteen’s grief for Bill? Or any sort of acknowledgement that Twelve was literally suicidal, and deeply depressed over losing everyone? We see a few hints of it her inability to ask the gang to stay (and her thrilled response at being asked to tea), and the way she very carefully makes sure they know what they’re getting themselves into before allowing them to travel with her, but I want more! (I am greedy.) ETA: It could very well be that it's just bewildering not to be in the Doctor's perspective anymore, as suggested by promethia below.
• Speaking of Thirteen we have yet to have a Big Moment, no ‘The Lonely Angel Storm at the Oncoming Fire of the Universe’. I hope (and presume) we will get that at some point (they might be saving it up for the end of the season? And no, her confrontations with Tim Shaw & Krasko don’t count), as I really want a moment of those two thousand years showing through. ‘The [wo]man who can turn an army around at the mention of [her] name.’ Actually, thinking about it, this was also my gripe with ‘Rose’ (the episode) back in the day. And S1 certainly paid off, so I guess I’m just impatient, because I think it’ll be spectacular. (Thought: Maybe she will completely lose it and SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE and it'll be all the more shocking because of how anti-gun she is...)
• Similarly, none of the companions have had a Big Moment. Nothing like Rose saving the Doctor in her first episode, or Amy saving the star whale f.ex. If this is because of a ‘return to basics’ or if these moments are still to come I have no idea.
• Looking at Torchwood though, the characters were very opaque for the first season and then blossomed wonderfully, and the Torchwood team are still some of my favourite characters ever, so here’s to hoping!
• The privilege theme continues! Yay! The most telling point being when not-Trump dismissed any concerns with ‘I’ll just pay you off’, which is especially on-point considering the whole row over Sir Philip Green and NDAs.
• Also the toxic waste dump was nicely done (and timely – see this story). Maybe the ruling classes would be more concerned about global warming if it meant that giant spiders would come after them.
• General issue: Exposition. This episode we had an actual Exposition Fairy (reviews tell me her name was Jade, which is good because I couldn’t remember) and the Standing Around Whilst There Is An Info Dump is a little tedious. This is something we may just have to learn to live with, and I am partly blaming the director(s) who surely could tell the actors to DO something rather than just Stand Urgently. ETA: Apparently Ryan made shadow-puppets in one of the exposition scenes, I completely missed that.
• Made a new Team TARDIS icon, because they look just like ghostbusters. <3
I think that’s everything. It’s weird not having any meta to write about. On the plus side, Doctor Who isn’t eating up all my spare time (and brain power) and I can concentrate on other things (like editing my novel). Am sincerely hoping that everything will come together a la Torchwood.
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I'm a bit surprised about how much we have gotten, to be honest. Brand new Doctor + the usual bottle it all up and pretend everything is fine MO generally means we try to forget the horrible shit that happened before the regeneration until it all comes boiling over later. So, you know, we're doing pretty well on that front.
But suddenly being denied access to the Doctor's perspective after being so immersed in it is super annoying.
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Maybe that's what's bothering me...
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Have you seen Tom Baker's story, Genesisof the Daleks? There's a wonderful moment there where The Doctor is angsting over whether to cleanse the Universe of the Daleks altogether. The best part of the writing of that whole scene is that we never get to know what he would have decided.
kerk
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Well there is this from Day of the Moon:
ELEVEN: Oh, and this is my friend River. Nice hair, clever, has her own gun, and unlike me, she really doesn't mind shooting people. I shouldn't like that. Kind of do, a bit.
I think the thing is that generally the Doctor can be incredibly deadly (far more so than any single person with a gun) so it comes across as a bit hypocritical. Not that I don't love the fact that the Doctor is never armed, it's a breath of fresh air in a world where most 'heroes' solve issues by shooting stuff. Re. River in particular, then the Doctor is responsible for the fact that she was engineered to be a weapon, and also she's his wife, so I don't think he felt able to really challenge her on it since she was one of the main victims of his own war-mongering/fall-out from the Time War.
(Wooo I can talk about River for HOURS.)
ETA: Also (still from Day of the Moon - S6 ep 2) there is River shooting all the Silents and remarking to Rory that she hopes the Doctor didn't see as he'd get ever so cross. Mostly I think it's more of a perception? Because she *does* carry a gun, but she's not randomly killing people.
Have you seen Tom Baker's story, Genesisof the Daleks? There's a wonderful moment there where The Doctor is angsting over whether to cleanse the Universe of the Daleks altogether. The best part of the writing of that whole scene is that we never get to know what he would have decided.
Yes I have seen it, and yes that is a brilliant scene.
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One thing I always took from the original version of Doctor Who was his almost prepared to do ANYthing rather than kill senisbilities; he wasn't necessarily prepared to die, but it seemed almost so, rather than save a life and/or people.
Can't recall what it was but, when I watched 'The Ghost Monument' again yesterday evening, there was a moment when The Doctor said/did something that, when I was recalling it earlier, made me think of that original perception of the character.
One other thing; not having seen the most recent two eps so far, is that it is very interesting that Graham and Ryan haven't, as in most 'family'-oriented shows almost immediately fallen into liking each other. Instead they are grudgingly (one one hand) trusting the other, and (on the other hand) trying to do what they know their wife would have wanted, but still going about it in the same mishap-ridden way they always have.
I think it would be true to character if Ryan never did call Graham 'Grandad'; except in an exceptional circumstance, which the other recognises for what it is; still very likely trying, though not as intensely, to get Ryan to call him 'Grandad'.
kerk
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I think Chibnall has stated that his vision is to 'return to basics' and like I said after The Woman Who Fell To Earth you could easily skip from Classic Who and straight to this season without missing a beat. I'm not sure where that leaves the rest of New Who - Moffat very carefully put the Doctor back together after RTD broke him (to be very simplistic about it), leaving the Doctor ready to be 'just a traveller' once more.
However, the 'old skool Doctors' could be fairly violent - I've seen enough of Six to know that he's not particularly bothered about henchmen dying (not that he caused it - the henchman was trying to throw him in a vat of acid, but fell in himself instead. Six couldn't have cared less) and even peaceful Five has shot a cyberman. I don't think the Doctor is a pacifist as such, more they always try their best to change the world for the better.
One other thing; not having seen the most recent two eps so far, is that it is very interesting that Graham and Ryan haven't, as in most 'family'-oriented shows almost immediately fallen into liking each other. Instead they are grudgingly (one one hand) trusting the other, and (on the other hand) trying to do what they know their wife would have wanted, but still going about it in the same mishap-ridden way they always have.
Yes, their relationship is very well done, and carries on more or less the same, but with a few developments. But it's all slow progress, which is very nice. :)
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But anyway, I realized ahead of time with a sinking feeling that we would probably be getting the whole Ten to Eleven thing over again, but this time the situation is not set up to bring us back into the Doctor's perspective quickly and you don't have the same relief that the Doctor's stopped being an angst lord to make you willing to sweep it all under the rug.
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From Eleven to Twelve was hugely Twelve-focussed (as was Nine to Ten), using Clara (or Rose) to evaluate the new Doctor and try to work out if they're still the same person.
I love Thirteen, but we've not had anything from her except that one speech about being a traveller. Maybe she just needs the companions to be more nosy & difficult.
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Maybe she just needs the companions to be more nosy & difficult.
I think Yaz is probably our best hope--she's the one who asked about the Doctor's family and invited her for tea. But, frankly, she might just be too nice and non-damaged.
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I've been thinking this too? Sit back, wait, see what happens.
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I can't even give it that, since the episode was clearly his reworking of/homage to The Green Death. (In which Global Chemicals are carelessly dumping toxic waste down a closed mine shaft, and causing the local insect life to mutate into giant poisonous maggots/flies in South Wales in 1973.)
But then Chibnall seems to be very much a Pertwee fan, which I suppose isn't surprising - which does tend to be the most straight text era of the show. All three of our showrunners have been very much fans, but they each focus on different aspects of it, which is always interesting to see. (For all RTD tends to be into earlier eras, his initial season is very much in conversation with where DW left off in 1989, with Survival in particular.)
Anyway, I was going to renew my S26 offer at this point (if you were missing some meta-ish DW in your life), but realised that with CC's DW ongoing and life being what it is, I can't possibly part with Ghostlight just now! (Maybe not Curse either. ;-p)
In short, I have done a thing and I hope you don't mind. It was very cheap anyhow and I have sent you a 2nd hand copy of Ghostlight. I hope you enjoy it (& that it works okay!!), but if you don't want it or turn out not to like it (it is still probably the weirdest episode), please just pass it on to somebody else who will be happy to have it. <3
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OTOH then Trump has done a lot of damage to Scotland from an environmental POV (see comments on the LJ side), so it might be pointed criticism at Trump...
But then Chibnall seems to be very much a Pertwee fan, which I suppose isn't surprising - which does tend to be the most straight text era of the show.
Yeah, that makes sense.
In short, I have done a thing and I hope you don't mind. It was very cheap anyhow and I have sent you a 2nd hand copy of Ghostlight. I hope you enjoy it (& that it works okay!!), but if you don't want it or turn out not to like it (it is still probably the weirdest episode), please just pass it on to somebody else who will be happy to have it. <3
I shall have to finally watch S26 (i have been saving it up) - it'll probably be via daily motion, but hey, it'll do. YAY for Seven. :D :D :D I could do with a reminder of how the Classic show can be great.
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It remains a pertinent topic, unfortunately, but this is hardly his first Pertwee reworking. Toxic waste = giant insects is... not accidental from such a 70s-era fan! A loving and still relevant homage, if only he hadn't evaporated his plot ten minutes before the end.
(But now I'm getting mean. I promised not to get mean about CC and I am failing 4 eps in, whoops.)
I shall have to finally watch S26 (i have been saving it up) - it'll probably be via daily motion, but hey, it'll do. YAY for Seven. :D :D :D I could do with a reminder of how the Classic show can be great.
Yay! And great and terrible and everything in between, really. And long may it continue!
Ghostlight is seriously weird, so I have no idea what you'll make of it, but it is not lacking in layers and intertextuality at any rate. :-)
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Yes, a lot of people have been remarking on this...
(But now I'm getting mean. I promised not to get mean about CC and I am failing 4 eps in, whoops.)
Dude, I have an icon!! (I don't know if it's *mean*, but I don't feel like pretending that I haven't lowered my expectations.)
Ghostlight is seriously weird, so I have no idea what you'll make of it, but it is not lacking in layers and intertextuality at any rate. :-)
I love weird! And layers and intertextuality. (It's one reason I have saved it up.)
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I'm not hugely impressed by Chibnall so far. Love Jodie and her team, but finding the writing a bit clunky. Hope it improves soon.
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And it's still very early days, so here's to hoping!
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It was nice to meet Yaz's family, although I did feel like smacking her sister when she said "she always has the weirdest friends" - maybe that's why she never brings any round, you prawn? We got all these hints about Yaz being 'married to the job' and isolated (kind of like Martha?) but nothing concrete. Nadjia seems to think Yaz is at least bisexual since she asked about Yaz and the Doctor but that wasn't followed through. The scene with Graham being haunted by Grace was poignant, but I don't like that Graham seems to be getting most of the writer's attention. Also, to add to Grace's fridging, we had a gay woman killed off here.
Not!Trump was at least captivating in his awfulness and that bit about guns: "What is wrong with you? What is wrong with this country? Why don't you do what normal people do, get a gun, shoot things like a civilised person?!"
All the adventurous bits were good, the spiders were interesting and Ryan using grime to get their attention was fun.
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That's a perfect summary. :)
It was nice to meet Yaz's family, although I did feel like smacking her sister when she said "she always has the weirdest friends" - maybe that's why she never brings any round, you prawn?
Ah, but she is a little sister, ergo she has no awareness beyond her own little world. (I say this fondly, thinking of my 13 year old...)
We got all these hints about Yaz being 'married to the job' and isolated (kind of like Martha?) but nothing concrete. Nadjia seems to think Yaz is at least bisexual since she asked about Yaz and the Doctor but that wasn't followed through.
Yes there's a lot of stuff, and we can only hope that they'll follow through on it later. Like I said, Torchwhood eventually paid off majorly, so... *crosses fingers*
The scene with Graham being haunted by Grace was poignant, but I don't like that Graham seems to be getting most of the writer's attention.
Maybe the cast is just too big?
Also, to add to Grace's fridging, we had a gay woman killed off here.
Ah yes, I meant to mention that. We could add her to I-forget-her-name's dead wife in ep2.
Not!Trump was at least captivating in his awfulness and that bit about guns: "What is wrong with you? What is wrong with this country? Why don't you do what normal people do, get a gun, shoot things like a civilised person?!"
To us it's satire, but there are genuinely people who believe that. Sure there are no 'aliens' in this ep, but he sure felt like he was from a different planet.
All the adventurous bits were good, the spiders were interesting and Ryan using grime to get their attention was fun.
Yes, it was enjoyable, definitely. :)
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*lol* True, it's just as a big sister who was always in that position, I immediately had a massive SIDE-EYE ¬_¬ (To be fair, my little sister never went as far as as that with any of my friends.)
Like I said, Torchwhood eventually paid off majorly, so... *crosses fingers*
That's true but (to state the obvious) TV in 2018 is not the same as TV in 2006, we don't know if the BBC will give Chibnall enough time to get the characters settled in so he can start developing the relationships properly. :/ I have my fingers crossed.
Maybe the cast is just too big?
I think it might be too big to have three new companions AND a new Doctor. But who knows, maybe that's just my Moffat preference showing through.
Ah yes, I meant to mention that. We could add her to I-forget-her-name's dead wife in ep2.
Angstrom (Nordic name?).
To us it's satire, but there are genuinely people who believe that. Sure there are no 'aliens' in this ep, but he sure felt like he was from a different planet.
He was very much a hostile alien, yes.
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I also liked Little Sister trying to make eyes at Ryan. :)
That's true but (to state the obvious) TV in 2018 is not the same as TV in 2006, we don't know if the BBC will give Chibnall enough time to get the characters settled in so he can start developing the relationships properly. :/ I have my fingers crossed.
I have just realised that there is fic. And there will be fic. And Torchwood fic was transcendentally good (not all of it, obviously) and the Doctor Who fic might be what gets us through if we never get a lot from the show.
I think it might be too big to have three new companions AND a new Doctor. But who knows, maybe that's just my Moffat preference showing through.
Maybe both. We've been spoiled by someone who could have four things happening at once, and a lizard.
Angstrom (Nordic name?).
Seems like it (except for being an alien). *g*
He was very much a hostile alien, yes.
The rich are the villain every time!
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Loved Noth!Trump and all the pot shots taken at the real thing XD
Given all the shenanigans that happened around the building of Trump Doonbeg and the Scottish one, I would not be surprised if the landfill thing came from real life. Like, it would literally not surprise me, they messed with Irish and Scottish planning applications, ran roughshod over locals, there are 80+ year old Scottish ppl without running water because Trump hotel messed up the mains and refuses to fix the problem.
The anti-gun thing feels like a callback to Nine and Ten as much as a Thirteen thing, imo, but also, Noth's "I'll shoot the enemy like a civilised person" line was both chilling as a character line and as a facet of imperialism and privilege.
The Brits sent the Black and Tans into Croke Park on All-Ireland Final Day during the War of Independence in the 1920s and fired machine guns indiscriminately into the crowd and players, so there is a history of the British Armed Forces solving problems with guns (I highly doubt this was in the mind of the writers, but the type of thing happened all over the Empire, as it was, and it feels pertinent, I mean look what the British Imperial machine did in India and Pakistan 200 years ago, and Yaz is a many-times-removed byproduct of that era, and her voice was often hushed and brushed aside by the white characters during this episode, as was her Mum's voice, which is I think more pertinent) and, like, there are shootings both mass scale and small scale in the US like, all the time, and it's really super messed up that gun violence is viewed as the civilised thing in the eyes of the privileged white American asshole character.
In the find-the-TARDIS episode The Doctor points out that gun violence begets gun violence when Ryan went all video-game-violence on the robot army and it seems right for that thread to continue.
I mean, personally I'm all for shooting ALL the spiders but that's my spider phobia (I watched the episode from behind my dog's ears).
I'm generally not one in favour of guns on telly, and I love that The Doctor always works to de-escalate violent situations, a sad one and only program that I can name that does that, literally all the police procedurals have the gun as the first or second line of defense rather than de-escalation and peaceful ending of the confrontations, and that bothers me in a way that's herd to explain without going into the whole Irish thing of the Gardaí being largely unarmed (except for a brand-new specialist anti-drugs-and-gangland- unit) because there's a Rule that one Does Not Shoot Someone Unarmed. (And that's the shortest version of that that I can put here.)
I can count the number of gun-related deaths of Gardaí in the line of duty since the GFA on one hand and the only shoot-out I can remember making the news (and it made the news because it Never Happens) happened about ten years ago).
The fact that the person with the gun didn't listen a) to reason or b) to The Doctor said a lot about the influence of gun culture/the NRA (or the in-universe equivalent) on the character (rich, white, presumably Republican, wannabe politician), but also about how Bad Things Happen when one doesn't listen to The Doctor. (I am conflicted on this point because the spider was killed and yay, my phobia trigger got murdered, but boo because the thing that was shot dead was literally not a threat despite looking threatening to the white American guy and oh, that line seems somehow very political in the wake of Pittsburgh. And both Yaz and The Doctor voiced de-escalation language that the white American shooter guy brushed aside, presumably because of it coming from women and specifically to Yaz a not-White woman, sothat theme of privilege and prejudice coming through loud and clear again).
Sidenote, I want to see Yaz using her police training to de-escalate situations in more episodes.
I dunno, it's after half past midnight and I'm tired and rambly tonight. G'night. and belated Happy Birthday!
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Yeah I do NOT like spiders. :(
Loved Noth!Trump and all the pot shots taken at the real thing XD
He was fab. :D :D :D
Given all the shenanigans that happened around the building of Trump Doonbeg and the Scottish one, I would not be surprised if the landfill thing came from real life. Like, it would literally not surprise me, they messed with Irish and Scottish planning applications, ran roughshod over locals, there are 80+ year old Scottish ppl without running water because Trump hotel messed up the mains and refuses to fix the problem.
Apparently the plot is a callback to The Green Death, but I am still have to see current parallels.
and, like, there are shootings both mass scale and small scale in the US like, all the time, and it's really super messed up that gun violence is viewed as the civilised thing in the eyes of the privileged white American asshole character.
Yeah, all of this. (And the Yaz bits!) It was clunky as hell, but as least the OTT writing pointed out how stupid it all is. Much like a line from King of the Hill, which I still remember all these years later. It was the paranoid neighbour (who'd be wearing a MAGA hat now, were the show still on, and believe every ridiculous theory about the Clintons) who said:
'If you've got a burglar in your house, and you ain't got a gun, how're you going to shoot him?'
In the find-the-TARDIS episode The Doctor points out that gun violence begets gun violence when Ryan went all video-game-violence on the robot army and it seems right for that thread to continue.
Like I said, fine thread, but could be less clunky.
I mean, personally I'm all for shooting ALL the spiders but that's my spider phobia (I watched the episode from behind my dog's ears).
♥ Also, as someone pointed out, it would have been a lot better if, say, the Doctor had pointed out that getting shot isn't quick or painless, rather than just scolding. BUT NEVERMIND, I am getting too caught up in a silly detail.
and that bothers me in a way that's herd to explain without going into the whole Irish thing of the Gardaí being largely unarmed (except for a brand-new specialist anti-drugs-and-gangland- unit) because there's a Rule that one Does Not Shoot Someone Unarmed. (And that's the shortest version of that that I can put here.)
It's more or less the same here (despite what the TV shows say). Now and again a suspect gets shot by the police and there are massive headlines.
but also about how Bad Things Happen when one doesn't listen to The Doctor. (I am conflicted on this point because the spider was killed and yay, my phobia trigger got murdered, but boo because the thing that was shot dead was literally not a threat despite looking threatening
Good point about how Bad Things Happen when one doesn't listen to The Doctor, I think the main issue is whether is was more humane to let the creature suffocate to death? Is that a better death? Would that have been merciful? Did the Doctor have a better plan? /rhetorical questions
Sidenote, I want to see Yaz using her police training to de-escalate situations in more episodes.
People have complained that this was never really brought up (why did she never do or say anything?) and I plain forgot that she was a police, so clearly the episode missed a trick.
I dunno, it's after half past midnight and I'm tired and rambly tonight. G'night. and belated Happy Birthday!
Thank you! ♥ And rambly is always welcome.
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Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
(Anonymous) 2018-10-31 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)But still, my two cents:
--What promethia said about not being in the Doctor’s perspective any more, yes.
--I could spend hours analysing regeneration and how it affects the Doctor’s mood/perspective/whathaveyou, but since the Ten -> Eleven switch was brought up in the comments, well, Eleven seemed unreasonably okay after the David Tennant Parade of Death, many complained, then we got Amy’s Choice, ah, okay. So yes, maybe in later episodes. I mean, I’m not saying that’s what they’re gonna do, we don’t have Moffat and #layers any longer but eh, you know. Maybe they’re pulling a Nine when it comes to depth/angst/episode quality/shit getting real. Also, late-Twelve didn’t reach late-Ten levels of misery, so even if all we get is the subtle hints you mentioned, I think it’ll be sufficient.
--Concerning the Doctor’s grief for Bill, Twelve being suicidal and depressed.
In my opinion, this would absolutely need to be addressed, if Twelve had regenerated in The Doctor Falls (which is probably one more reason why Moffat decided to write the Christmas special , apart from the Christmas thing, and not having the heart to destroy him, RTD style). Thirteen would have to be majorly fucked up. Well, we got Twice Upon A Time, aka memory lane, good news about Bill –not that this would stop the Doctor from missing her of course, but it *is* an improvement over “she became a Cyberman and then I blew up everything because fuck this shit” – much general closure, humans being adorable, Twelve grudgingly deciding that it’s worth it, etc.
I mean, ignoring it would be like going from Series 8 to Series 9, or from 9 to 10 without watching Last Christmas or THORS; Twelve always got beaten down in the finales, and then Moffat would be like “aww, come here you” and throw him a bone.
So basically, what I hear of Thirteen, even if you disregard my above points, makes sense to me.
At the very least, I would think of it this way: Through the Christmas special, the Doctor got to a point where he was not as depressed/at least fifty-fifty regarding the choice to go on; flipping a coin let’s say. We got lucky, it could have gone either way. And after the change, Thirteen is pretty happy she got heads. Basically, it’s not going from 0 to 100, it’s going from 50 to 100 –which is not too bad when you throw regeneration into the mix, see other major changes in perspective with other Doctors, etc.
Maybe she will completely lose it and SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE and it'll be all the more shocking because of how anti-gun she is...
LOL
“Oh boy, here I go killing again!”
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
I mean, ignoring it would be like going from Series 8 to Series 9, or from 9 to 10 without watching Last Christmas or THORS; Twelve always got beaten down in the finales, and then Moffat would be like “aww, come here you” and throw him a bone.
Hahahahahaha. Wow, I never quite thought about it like that, but that is absolutely true.
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
(Anonymous) 2018-11-02 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)Since I haven't got a livejournal, my interesting subject lines are how I'm recognised around here. I mean, I suppose I could use the google account?... but at this point it's tradition!
Oh, also, I've replied to your comments for the poetic comment!fic. I mean, not now, it's been a while, but I don't know if you ever saw them? Just sayin'. Once again, thank you for the appreciation and feedback! <3
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
I just realised this morning that fic might be the answer. I have not really read much the past few years, the show was so exquisite and so complex that I never needed anything more, but I now remember how much Torchwood fic I used to inhale (the Torchwood fic was magnificent and amazing and crazy and wonderful), and how it'd flesh out the bare bones the show gave us. Basically I want MORE and the show is failing to deliver. Like you say, it's all THERE, I can draw the lines and do the maths and fanwank anything in the world (except the Buffy comics and Miracle Day), but rather than drawing basic lines I am used to revelling in symbolism. It's from one extreme to another, and the adjustment is sharp...
(If you note the icon, then the line is from the very end of Eliot's Little Gidding, which I shall be using when I get round to writing about Twice Upon A Time. So it heralds the new beginning, but I have been unable to wrench much meta out of S11 itself. Mind you, Rusty Who didn't have any particular meta until the end of S3.)
I mean, ignoring it would be like going from Series 8 to Series 9, or from 9 to 10 without watching Last Christmas or THORS; Twelve always got beaten down in the finales, and then Moffat would be like “aww, come here you” and throw him a bone.
That is adorable.
“Oh boy, here I go killing again!”
LOL. I was thinking more along Ten picking up Wilf's gun in End of Time - the impact of that moment was huge.
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(Anonymous) 2018-11-02 09:46 pm (UTC)(link)Understandable ;)
I just realised this morning that fic might be the answer. I have not really read much the past few years, the show was so exquisite and so complex that I never needed anything more, but I now remember how much Torchwood fic I used to inhale (the Torchwood fic was magnificent and amazing and crazy and wonderful), and how it'd flesh out the bare bones the show gave us.
It might be! And videos too, like you said. And !ART!
It’s too early, I don’t have much Thirteen stuff. But otherwise? Every other era? I have *so* many fics to share, both mine and other people’s. So many. And if I have written or faved it, it’s bound to be full of poetry and symbolism, like 50% of the time.
And the !ART! too. I mean, mostly, I do collages with poetry; I can definitely help you get your fix is what I’m saying :)
(If you note the icon, then the line is from the very end of Eliot's Little Gidding, which I shall be using when I get round to writing about Twice Upon A Time.)
See, I’ve made !ART! with that! About Nine. Not my best work, but still.
That is adorable.
And now I have this image of Twelve as a puppy –though he is obviously more of a cat/penguin/owl hybrid.
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
I have thought of an analogy - it's like going from T.S.Eliot to John Steinbeck. There is now a distinct lack of layers, mirrors and no footnotes/references longer than the work itself. A great many people probably prefer the change. ;)
It’s too early, I don’t have much Thirteen stuff. But otherwise? Every other era? I have *so* many fics to share, both mine and other people’s. So many. And if I have written or faved it, it’s bound to be full of poetry and symbolism, like 50% of the time.
... Thank you, but no. I'm thinking Thirteen specifically, because that would help expand her & her world for me. Much like how Torchwood was... um... *not* well written, but the VERSE was an incredible thing and the fic was golden. Fic for other eras I don't need. Not that they won't be good, and not that I haven't read (and written) my fair share, but I *am* trying to finish my novel, so fewer distractions are of the good. :)
See, I’ve made !ART! with that! About Nine. Not my best work, but still.
Now that I would like to see. :)
And now I have this image of Twelve as a puppy –though he is obviously more of a cat/penguin/owl hybrid.
Yes, Eleven is definitely the puppy one.
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
(Anonymous) 2018-11-03 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)Sounds like a good analogy!
Thank you, but no. I'm thinking Thirteen specifically, because that would help expand her & her world for me. Much like how Torchwood was... um... *not* well written, but the VERSE was an incredible thing and the fic was golden. Fic for other eras I don't need. Not that they won't be good, and not that I haven't read (and written) my fair share, but I *am* trying to finish my novel, so fewer distractions are of the good. :)
Understandable. Oh, all the half-written things *I* should be working on... :( Perhaps afterwards?
And you've gotta wait a bit for good Thirteen fics, she's only just begun.
Now that I would like to see. :)
!ART! it is then. Much less time-consuming than fic in any case ;)
Re: Just dropping in, like a Time Lord through a train roof
Thank you. I don't want to do the 'The show does not cater to my specific tastes anymore, ergo it is now terrible', whilst also acknowledging that it *has* changed.
Understandable. Oh, all the half-written things *I* should be working on... :( Perhaps afterwards?
We'll see. I am constantly drowning in... All The Things.
And you've gotta wait a bit for good Thirteen fics, she's only just begun.
Very true.
!ART! it is then. Much less time-consuming than fic in any case ;)
Well, not for the artist...
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I’ve been a bit confused about Graham and Grace being so keen on wanting Ryan to call Graham his grandad, because as a grown adult why would Ryan suddenly start doing that when Grace has only been with Graham for a couple of years from what I remember? It just doesn’t seem very true to life, although I can understand Graham hoping that Ryan will come to view him as family, but the grandad title seems a bit much to hope for idk
But considering all the character stuff we are getting for Graham, where is Thirteen’s grief for Bill? Or any sort of acknowledgement that Twelve was literally suicidal, and deeply depressed over losing everyone?
I’m assuming that Chris Chibnall doesn’t want to get into that too much because this has been promoted so much as a brand new era, so I expect less continuity than I would if Moffat was still running things
The writing does feel a bit heavy handed and preachy to me at times I’m sorry to say, I thought it was a bit much that we were meant to be immediately horrified at the asshole American character suggesting to shoot the giant spiders that are killing people!! I mean I’m reasonably anti gun myself, but if ever there was a place for them, I would think this is it! There wasn’t anything natural about them, so I would think that quick and merciful extermination would be the best option all round, rather than locking them up to slowly starve to death/suffocate :shrugs:
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Maybe they were trying to make up for his absent father and dead mother? Just focussing a little too much on titles.
I’m assuming that Chris Chibnall doesn’t want to get into that too much because this has been promoted so much as a brand new era, so I expect less continuity than I would if Moffat was still running things
Oh yeah, it makes sense. I guess I just want something to... grab me? Something to tie it into the overall mythology. It could be that he's just biding his time and will unleash something later.
There wasn’t anything natural about them, so I would think that quick and merciful extermination would be the best option all round, rather than locking them up to slowly starve to death/suffocate :shrugs:
As you say, just too heavy-handed. Which is a shame. AH WELL HERE'S TO TOMORROW! (Or maybe to next week's episode, tomorrow's will Chibnall's last before the finale. *g*)
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I know what you mean, I definitely agree with the review that you linked pointing out that most of the emotional arc so far has gone to the two men in the cast disappointingly. There really hasn’t been anything very meaty for Jodie to get her teeth into considering that she’s meant to be the main character, she seems to just be getting the quirky moments to play at the moment, which is a bit different from the focus on the Doctor’s journey that you got with RTD and Moffat
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So far she absolutely the Doctor, no doubt about it, but like... sort of in parallel to the past? Her stories could be set at any point. She could be a Classic Doctor, like... a re-cast Five? And you needn't change a thing. ETA: This was a proper little epiphany! Thank you for helping to make me formulate it properly. :)
delayed comment time
Peter FlorrickChris Noth, an amazing casting choice.I honestly don't mind Graham's grief arc, I just wish the grief didn't have to be over a fridged black woman -- and that Ryan got space for his own grief??
Also, I like Yaz, but I find it hard to sympathise with her repeated complaints about how much her family drives her nuts, when from what we can see at the moment they're perfectly decent and don't mistreat her... (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
ETA: It could very well be that it's just bewildering not to be in the Doctor's perspective anymore, as suggested by promethia below.
THIS. This is why I still don't LOVE Thirteen, although I'm desperate to.
The major problem with this season is that it doesn't seem to be anyone's story. Sure it's an ensemble, but you can still have an ensemble where everyone is a protagonist. This is not that. Particularly, I'm yet to see how Thirteen has any flaw she needs to overcome that would drive her story.
Re: delayed comment time
Yes, it just whizzed along. Moar plz.
I honestly don't mind Graham's grief arc, I just wish the grief didn't have to be over a fridged black woman -- and that Ryan got space for his own grief??
Enevarim pointed out that Ryan talked about her in his youtube vlog in the first episode, but there hasn't been much since. :(
Also, I like Yaz, but I find it hard to sympathise with her repeated complaints about how much her family drives her nuts, when from what we can see at the moment they're perfectly decent and don't mistreat her... (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
I think they're probably just annoying her, the way families do.
THIS. This is why I still don't LOVE Thirteen, although I'm desperate to.
Something, anything. Doctor-centric episode needed, stat.
The major problem with this season is that it doesn't seem to be anyone's story. Sure it's an ensemble, but you can still have an ensemble where everyone is a protagonist. This is not that.
Good point. Yes. We're used to Companion-centric stories, where they discover the Doctor & the universe, but...
Particularly, I'm yet to see how Thirteen has any flaw she needs to overcome that would drive her story.
Well I found an old discussion where Promethia & I discussed Chibnall (back from early 2016 when he was first announced). Handg on, lemme find it.
I quoted a comment from one of El Sandifer's post:
'I ponder the question of what point of view is Chibnall Who likely to take.
To be reductive about it, I think you can extrapolate from "Rose," as though it were a piece of fairy cake in the Total Perspective Vortex, almost everything you need to know about the RTD era. Or, if you don't buy that, pick "Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways," which folds in the rest of the important stuff about gods and hubris and too much power along with the pop culture and the beauty of the ordinary. Similarly, you can take one of Moffat's early episodes -- I think "Girl in the Fireplace" has it pretty well covered -- and extrapolate lots of the key elements, concerns, motifs, and themes of the Moffat era. You can see from his individual episodes what his era would be about, generally speaking.
So what does Chibnall's work on Who have in common? I'm cheating a bit by thinking of his Torchwood episodes and Broadchurch as well, but if there's any thread at all, it's something about past wounds causing a savage (over)reaction in the present. Revenge and retaliation are all over "42," "Hungry Earth / Cold Blood," and "Dinosaurs." The recurrence of past friends as present enemies is there in "Cyberwoman" and the Captain John Hart character. I couldn't tell you exactly how, but the unearthing of past trauma in "Adrift" and even Broadchurch series 1 seems connected to this. It's a stab in the dark, but I wouldn't be surprised if this (gothic?) mode ended up dominating Chibnall's Who. It's not the worst approach to Who ever -- arguably it has a lot in common with the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era -- but also arguably we've already had it, with evil Rassilon and the ripples of the Time War.
I didn't think the RTD and Moffat eras were perfect, but they were of such a high quality, and with such heart underpinning them, that it's hard to imagine this will be a patch on them. The one silver lining I see is that -- and I don't know why I give him this kind of credit -- I can imagine Chibnall casting a female Doctor and/or a Doctor of color. I can't quite see any of the other prospective showrunners doing that.'
encyclops
So let's pin a bit of hope on 'The Timeless Child' and hope something comes to haunt the Doctor from her past! :)