Twice Upon a Time

[elisi]

I realise it's been more than a month, and this is... Well, it is what it is. It was a lovely, lovely episode, but rounding up the end of an era is hard. So this isn't that, it's just a heap of scattered thoughts strung together. I will also post a take that is all poetry, but this one is probably better for talking about. :)



First of all, this is the best 'Previously on...' on anything, ever. (Although how did they count the episodes? And what poor sap had to do it?)



1966 vs 2017
Of course the real joy lies in watching Twelve and One interact, allowing the past and the present to meet in a more fundamental way than we usually see. Some people thought it was funny and others have taken issue with One's lines, saying he was never that sexist (although the smacked bottom line f.ex. is taken pretty much verbatim from The Tenth Planet). My thoughts are that the point of the attitude may have been a little more meta...

Our new Doctor is a woman, and this episode is an opportunity to take stock at how far we have all come - both the show itself, and as a society. The First Doctor and the Captain are obviously not bad people, despite their - to our ears - very outdated attitudes. And when it comes to actual women they know, they clearly value them for who they are:

CAPTAIN: [My wife]'s a solid woman, remarkably solid

And once One gets talking to Bill properly he engages with her with genuine interest:

BILL: I don't mean what you ran away from. What were you running to?
ONE: That's rather a good question.

But the society they live in has imbued them with ideas that they have unthinkingly accepted as part of their world view (ONE: Well, aren't all ladies made of glass, in a way?). Wrt One then he may just be speaking of humans more generally, it's unlikely that he'd ever think of Time Ladies in such terms (higher species and all that).

Mostly though, I am an easy mark and I find it HILARIOUS to watch Twelve squirm.

On a more serious note, we see how this attitude (and the corresponding 'stiff upper lip' for males) can also hurt people:

CAPTAIN: ...and my boys. Well, sons are supposed to move on from their fathers. It's the proper way.

The Captain uses it as a crutch to comfort himself with, but it's not a happy one.


Miscellaneous
- Thanks to a very old Doctor Who fact sheet we know that the Doctor's body temperature is 60F, which is only 15.5C! No wonder he never puts on a warmer coat.

- When they are in the old TARDIS, they film it like in the old series. That is - from the outside the doors are blue & slim, but inside they are white and a foot thick. It makes no earthly sense, except I guess there's a perception filter on the outside. (Yes I notice stupid details and I had to think up an explanation it bothered me that much.)

- It's immensely pleasing that the First Doctor has just come from an adventure featuring cybermen. And the ones in Twelve's finale are so exactly like those old ones (that we catch glimpses of in the 'Previously On...') that it's uncanny. It just thrills me to tiny bits.

- This exchange, from the very start of the ep:

TWELVE: You know who I am. You must.
ONE: Hmm. Have you come to take the ship back?

I don't think I caught that initially - that One thinks Twelve is from Gallifrey & he's finally been caught.

- TWELVE: Over to you Mary Berry

This line is wonderful on oh so many levels. And not just because now I'm imagining Bill, Nardole & Twelve watching Bake-Off. <3


A Good Dalek
I totally called that it'd be Rusty in that tower (from when I realised that the scuttling things were Daleks) and nearly jumped in delight at being right. SO perfect.

Rusty ties back to both Twelve's initial struggles (it's his first adventure after Deep Breath), and [within that story] back to One's first proper story (after the episode with the cavemen). From Into the Dalek:

TWELVE: See, all those years ago, when I began I was just running. I called myself the Doctor, but it was just a name. And then I went to Skaro. And then I met you lot and I understood who I was. The Doctor was not the Daleks.

As a farewell and a celebration of the end of this particular era (Twelve/Moffat/male Doctors - take your pick), it's very fitting that we should visit this Dalek, the one Dalek that changed, the one Dalek that learned to see further than the rest...

TWELVE: What? What did you see?
RUSTY: The birth of a star.
TWELVE: Stars are born every day. You've seen a million stars born. So what?
RUSTY: Daleks have destroyed a million stars.
TWELVE: Oh, millions and millions. Trust me, I keep count.
RUSTY: And yet, new stars are born.
RUSTY: Resistance is futile.
TWELVE: Resistance to what?
RUSTY: Life returns. Life prevails. Resistance is futile.
TWELVE: So you saw a star being born, and you learned something. Oh, Dalek, do not be lying to me. Come on.

For me, this brings to mind the conversation between One and Bill:

ONE: There is good and there is evil. I left Gallifrey to answer a question of my own. By any analysis, evil should always win. Good is not a practical survival strategy. It requires loyalty, self-sacrifice and er, love. So, why does good prevail? What keeps the balance between good and evil in this appalling universe? Is there some kind of logic? Some mysterious force?

One's starting point is different to Rusty's obviously, but the two feed into each other. The First Doctor had questions, and the Daleks provided the first answer: It would be easy to let the Daleks win, but he refused to be like them. Good might be an impractical strategy, but he chose it nonetheless. And in turn, many years down the line, fed that belief back to Rusty:

RUSTY: I see into your soul, Doctor. I see beauty. I see divinity. I see hatred.
TWELVE: Hatred?
RUSTY: I see your hatred of the Daleks and it is good.
TWELVE: No, no, no. You must see more than that, there must be more than that.
RUSTY: Death to the Daleks. Death to the Daleks. Death to the Daleks.
TWELVE: No, there must be more than that. There must be more than that. Please.
RUSTY: Daleks are evil. Daleks must be exterminated. Daleks are evil.

One of the things that pleases me most about this episode, is that Rusty and the Doctor have the following exchange:

TWELVE: Because people don't believe there could be any such thing as a good Dalek.
RUSTY: I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek.

Twelve has laid his demons to rest, and it's probably good that he left One at the bottom of the tower as those lines might have pushed him over the edge. He found it difficult enough as it was...


Early Days
I loved the gulf/growth between One and Twelve, particularly how it was demonstrated in these lines:

ONE: Not human, I think. State your planet of origin and your intentions. This is Earth, a level five civilisation.
TWELVE: And it is protected.
ONE: It's what?
(The transparent figure and the light disappears.)
TWELVE: Oh. Okay. That doesn't usually work.
ONE: Protected by whom?
TWELVE: Oh, it is early days, isn't it?

And a little later One gets a proper preview of his future:

TWELVE: Oh, I'm going to do way more than escape. I'm going to find out who you are and what you're doing, and if I don't like it, I will come back and I will stop you. I will stop all of you!
ONE: Who the hell do you think you are?
TWELVE: The Doctor.
ONE: I am the Doctor. Who you are, I cannot begin to imagine.

Love, love, love One's reaction here. He almost physically recoils. And a throwaway line later sheds further light on just how different their worlds are:

TWELVE: That thing up there won't miss the chance to kill me twice. The paradox would rip the universe apart, and you know how much hard work it is putting it back together again.

Twelve speaks without thinking here - as One has obviously never put the universe back together (ETA: I stand corrected, apparently this is a reference to The Three Doctors) - but it's something Eleven did for the sake of a little girl getting her parents back (and because the universe was blowing up of course). We see One's natural self-assurance, but the power Twelve wields without thinking is foreign to him, the power that lies in his name alone:

TEN: I'm the Doctor, and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up.
(There is a pause, then the shadows withdraw.)

Of course the reason for that power is something much darker than the First Doctor can imagine:

GLASS WOMAN: The Doctor has walked in blood through all of time and space. The Doctor has many names.
DAVROS [OC]: The Destroyer of Worlds.
GLASS WOMAN: The Imp of the Pandorica. The Shadow of the Valeyard. The Beast of Trenzalore. The Butcher of Skull Moon. The Last Tree of Garsennon. The Destroyer of Skaro. He is the Doctor of War.

(Sidebar: The IMP of the Pandorica??? I think I died. Like - THE IMP, TREMBLE ALL YOU PEOPLES! It's v accurate though, Eleven is impish. <3)

(Also 'The Last Tree of Garsennon'? Is that going to be relevant in Chibnall's era? I hope so. I presume 'The Butcher of Skull Moon' was the War Doctor.)

Anyway, this neatly brings me to:



Twelve was borne out of battle. Battlefields dominated Eleven’s last episodes, and were a repeated theme of Twelve’s run. (The change in colour palette is particularly evident in these caps btw.)

Name of the Doctor


Day of the Doctor


Time of Doctor


The Magician’s Apprentice


The Doctor Falls


Twice Upon a Time


Of course, one of the biggest battles Twelve has faced is with himself. He spends S8 querying who and what he is (Am I a good man?), and it is only when Missy hands him an army, gift-wrapped, that he finally cracks the big issue that’s plagued him. (I am… an idiot! With a box and a screwdriver…)

Another big watershed moment is in The Girl Who Died, where we have Twelve realising why he chose his face (and again playing with that power One so disapproves of):

CLARA: You did your best. She died. There's nothing you can do.
TWELVE: I can do anything. There's nothing I can't do. Nothing. But I'm not supposed to. Ripples, tidal waves, rules. I'm not supposed to. Oh. Oh!
CLARA: What? What's wrong?
TWELVE: My face. I think I know why I chose it.

[clip from Fires of Pompeii]
DONNA: Just someone. Not the whole town. Just save someone.
TEN [reaching out to Caecilus]: Come with me.
[end clip]

TWELVE: I know where I got this face, and I know what it's for.
CLARA: Okay, what's it for?
TWELVE: To remind me. To hold me to the mark. I'm the Doctor, and I save people. And if anyone happens to be listening, and you've got any kind of a problem with that, to hell with you!

Now, I think he got it wrong. The message wasn’t that he could do *anything*, that he should save someone and to hell with the consequences. (An attitude that led to storming Gallifrey and going to ridiculous lengths to save Clara - HI TIME LORD VICTORIOUS I LIKED SEEING YOU AGAIN). No, it’s much more literal than that:

DONNA: Just someone. Not the whole town. Just save someone.

And here, we have that exact thing:

ONE: You've saved him.
TWELVE: Both of them. Never hurts, a couple fewer dead people on the battlefield.
ONE: So that's what it means to be a doctor of war.
TWELVE: You were right, you know. The universe generally fails to be a fairy tale. But that's where we come in.

He saved a random man (well, two) - and unwittingly saved one of his oldest friend’s grandfather… And in the process helped One to formulate an alternative to ‘War Doctor’.

Just save someone, because there is no such thing as unimportant.

As a counterpoint to the darkness One witnesses in his own future, it's beautiful.

Which very nicely ties in with my next point:



ONE: But why him? What's so important about one Captain?
TWELVE: Everybody's important to somebody, somewhere.

And this is the Doctor’s tragedy:

TWELVE: A life this long, do you understand what it is? It's a battlefield, like this one, and it's empty. Because everyone else has fallen.

This takes us right back to Deep Breath, Twelve’s first episode. He is translating the dinosaur’s words… or is he speaking for himself?

TWELVE: I am alone. The world which shook at my feet, and the trees and the sky, have gone. And I am alone now. Alone. The wind bites now, and the world is grey, and I am alone here. Can't see me. Doesn't see me. Can't see me.

Which gets repeated at the end of that episode, in his conversation with Clara:

TWELVE: You don't see me, do you? You look right at me, and you don't see me. Please . . . just see me.

All this reminded me of one of the most insightful things that the_royal_anna ever wrote:

We don't stop being human when we lose our hearts; nor when we lose our heads. And every last vestige of humanity can be drained from us, but as long as somebody, somewhere cares, we are not dust.
(x)

And the Doctor is alone… There is no one to see him. His friends are now memories, held in glass. If no one knows you, and no one cares, what does that make you? Do you even really exist?

Moffat, in this interview talks about how falling in love makes us fully human - how we are now more than ourselves, we are ‘the one who loves such-and-such, and is loved by them’.

There is a very painful connection to be made here, with Ashildr, who understood all of this instinctively:

ASHILDR: I know I'm strange. Everyone knows I'm strange. But here I'm loved. You tell me to run to save my life. I tell you that leaving this place would be death itself.

It is a point the Doctor understands far too well:

TWELVE: I'll lose any war you like. I'm sick of losing people. Look at you, with your eyes, and your never giving up, and your anger, and your kindness. One day, the memory of that will hurt so much that I won't be able to breathe, and I'll do what I always do. I'll get in my box and I'll run and I'll run, in case all the pain ever catches up. And every place I go, it will be there.

And then Ashildr (doomed to the Doctor's fate) throws it back in his face:

ASHILDR: She'll die on you, you know. She'll blow away like smoke.
TWELVE: Save your breath.
ASHILDR: How old are you, Doctor?
TWELVE: Older than you.
ASHILDR: And how many have you lost? How many Claras?



Clara was always about memory, and being seen:

CLARA: Run you clever boy and remember me.

TWELVE: You can't see me, can you? You look at me, and you can't see me. Have you any idea what that's like? I'm not on the phone, I'm right here, standing in front of you. Please, just, just see me.

Some day I will probably do a very long post about everything Clara, but I am not up to it right now. Instead I shall just (as always) point you towards purplefringe's Never Look Away, and pull out another way in which this episode ties back to Twelve's beginning, and how it offers an answer:

TWELVE (speaking to the half-face droid): You are a broom. Question. You take a broom, you replace the handle, and then later you replace the brush, and you do that over and over again. Is it still the same broom? Answer? No, of course it isn't. But you can still sweep the floor. Which is not strictly relevant, skip that last part. You have replaced every piece of yourself, mechanical and organic, time and time again. There's not a trace of the original you left. You probably can't even remember where you got that face from.

Of course we then see the Doctor's reflection - he can't remember how he got his face either. And (like the dinosaur) he can be seen as speaking about himself. Is he just a broom, the constituent parts replaced so often he is no longer himself? He might think so, but here, in his final episode, Testimony turn up and turn it all on its head. The broom is immaterial. People consist of their memories, and the vessel doesn't matter. Pour Bill's memories into a glass container, and there she is. Ditto with Clara.

It's not an evil plan, but even so it almost breaks the Doctor. (You're just memories held in glass. Do you know how many of you I could fill? I would shatter you. My testimony would shatter all of you.)

He just wants to rest... But the universe won't let him.



NARDOLE: Don't die. Because if you do, I think everybody in the universe might just go cold.

This line reminded me of River (not surprisingly, since River sent Nardole to look after the Doctor and passed on her wisdom):

RIVER: Everybody knows that everybody dies, and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark, if he ever, for one moment, accepts it.
Forest of the Dead

RIVER: Those reports of the sun spots and the solar flares. They're wrong. There aren't any. It's not the sun, it's you. The sky is full of a million, million voices saying yes, of course we'll help. You've touched so many lives, saved so many people. Did you think when your time came, you'd really have to do more than just ask? You've decided that the universe is better off without you, but the universe doesn't agree.
The Wedding of River Song

This time it's the TARDIS reaching out - showing him a distress call, and also reminding him that despite the fact that he loses all his friends, his box will always be there.

And so he capitulates, agrees to another turn of the wheel, and gives his next self a lovely speech about what it means to be the Doctor and how pears are horrible and 'Always try to be nice'. Which just goes to show far we've come since Twelve's beginning, when 'nice' was a pointless effort.

I think I have mentioned how Twelve was in many ways a reboot of the Doctor himself - a whole new set of regenerations and he had to try to figure everything out all over again.

At this point I can't help but bring in Ten's regeneration. Not just because Twelve in many ways addressed the issues from Ten's run (like the Victoriousness), but also because their final lines (as I am sure everyone noticed) are almost the opposite:

TEN: I don't want to go.

TWELVE: Doctor - I let you go.

Of course Ten wouldn't have been Ten if he had gone gently into that good night, but there is a beauty to Twelve's ending that I find very affecting. Because he fought as hard as Ten, screamed his fury at the universe - but managed to find a way through to the other side, finding acceptance and peace.

We see this reflected in the stories themselves - Ten’s last adventure (best review ever here!) comprised huge, big stakes, HO SHIT TIME LORDS AND THE END OF TIME ITSELF!!… Except under that ran a quiet story about a man scared of dying.

Moffat does away with the big drama, and just tells the story of a man (two men, no three men) scared of dying and change.

I have for years talked about Doctor Who and The Waste Land (most recent post - about the S10 finale - here on AO3, and I have a very short companion piece coming), and this episode was especially fitting in this light; The Waste Land is all about WWI, and that's what this episode centers on too. It's like the whole show coming full circle somehow. All that fear, all that pain, all that endless destruction, the war to end all wars. All tied up with the Time War and the Doctor's journey, and how he has managed to find peace:







Where there's tears, there's hope.

♥ ♥ ♥
Welcome Thirteen, may your adventures be spectacular and wonderful.

Comments

[enevarim]

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!

Ahem. Also, I was on my way out twenty minutes ago when I saw this, so I’ll come back later, but, two quick points –

Yes, Skull Moon was Time War – the first Gallifreyan soldier who left the firing squad line and walked over to Twelve in Hell Bent said to him, “I was at Skull Moon, sir”.

And there’s a bit in the novelization of Remembrance of the Daleks just before the tea and decisions and ripples scene that ties in to all of this…

The Doctor watched awhile as a crane unloaded crates from a ship. A cold wind flicked scraps of paper along the street. He could see stars through a rent in the clouds.

“Don’t you think you could get along without me,” he said softly into the night, “just for a little while.”

Only the wind answered.

The Doctor smelt the tea on the breeze. He sighed once and walked upwind.

[elisi]

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!
:D

Yes, Skull Moon was Time War – the first Gallifreyan soldier who left the firing squad line and walked over to Twelve in Hell Bent said to him, “I was at Skull Moon, sir”.
THANK YOU! I couldn't place it, but it sounded very familiar.

And there’s a bit in the novelization of Remembrance of the Daleks just before the tea and decisions and ripples scene that ties in to all of this…
Oh that's beautiful. All the love for Seven. ♥

[c_carol]

I don't really have anything to add to this, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoy your reviews.

[elisi]

Thank you. ♥

[owlboy]

>>Wrt One then he may just be speaking of humans more generally, it's unlikely that he'd ever think of Time Ladies in such terms (higher species and all that).

Someone, unfortunately I can't remember who, had a well-articulated theory that Time Lords -- having come from a regimented class system -- might assume that ''woman human'' constitutes a rank, and therefore their biases aren't based so much on biology [like ours] but on rank prejudice. Which I can buy.

>>from when I realised that the scuttling things were Daleks

The Captain saying ''Haha, they're probably just rats'' and getting immediately face-slammed by a Dalek is such a classic Who thing. I was barking

>>Twelve speaks without thinking here - as One has obviously never put the universe back together

I believe it may be a reference to The Three Doctors.

[elisi]

might assume that ''woman human'' constitutes a rank, and therefore their biases aren't based so much on biology [like ours] but on rank prejudice. Which I can buy.
Ooooh. Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

The Captain saying ''Haha, they're probably just rats'' and getting immediately face-slammed by a Dalek is such a classic Who thing. I was barking
Same here. :D

I believe it may be a reference to The Three Doctors.
Aaaaah. I ought to watch that. Thank you.

[purplefringe]

<3 just save someone I love your take on this, and I think you've nailed it. Thank you for bringing out all the lovely parallels with Twelve's beginnings - I LOVE the journey he's been on, and thought this episode was such a beautiful ending for him. Such a classic Moffat ep too, with lots of zipping around and timey-wimeyness and Memories, but really it just comes down to a few people in a moment having feelings and deciding to be kind.

(and thank you for the rec! As always! I did make a vid for this episode in the first week after it aired, but I haven't posted it because I'm not very happy with it and don't know how to fix it. Woe.)

[elisi]

On my way to bed, so will reply properly in the morning, but I WOULD LOVE TO HELP WITH YOUR VID!

(My head is overloaded anyway, but tomorrow might be quiet...)

[elisi]

I love your take on this, and I think you've nailed it.
Trust you to pinpoint the one actual genuine insight in the whole post! ♥ I am v pleased with it in case you can't tell.

but really it just comes down to a few people in a moment having feelings and deciding to be kind.
Exactly. I am doing a (very slow) Twelve re-watch and the way he started was so... abrupt & abrasive, that the ending feels lovely and sort of pillow-y, if that makes sense. <3

[promethia_tenk]

Alright, here I am at last, better late than never and all that <3

I do see what you mean, but then it's not a meaty episode. I think you wrung about about what there is to say about it, with a little pictures and a little poetry, so that's pretty nice.

Although how did they count the episodes? And what poor sap had to do it?
I assume they did the normal thing and consulted Wikipedia . . .

On a more serious note, we see how this attitude (and the corresponding 'stiff upper lip' for males) can also hurt people
I never quite got around to teasing out the intricacies of the mirroring between the Captain and the Doctor(s), none of whom want to die. I mean, the comparison is fairly obvious, but I feel like there's something in there I haven't quite put my finger on.

I don't think I caught that initially - that One thinks Twelve is from Gallifrey & he's finally been caught.
Aaaahhhhh. Nice.

This line is wonderful on oh so many levels. And not just because now I'm imagining Bill, Nardole & Twelve watching Bake-Off. <3
No offense to the rest of your post, but this is the best thing in it =DDDDDDD

As a farewell and a celebration of the end of this particular era (Twelve/Moffat/male Doctors - take your pick), it's very fitting that we should visit this Dalek, the one Dalek that changed, the one Dalek that learned to see further than the rest...
MMmmm. Nice. I feel like I vaguely thought about this connection and then let it slip away on me . . .

Twelve has laid his demons to rest, and it's probably good that he left One at the bottom of the tower as those lines might have pushed him over the edge. He found it difficult enough as it was...
*blink* good point

Twelve speaks without thinking here - as One has obviously never put the universe back together (ETA: I stand corrected, apparently this is a reference to The Three Doctors) - but it's something Eleven did for the sake of a little girl getting her parents back (and because the universe was blowing up of course). We see One's natural self-assurance, but the power Twelve wields without thinking is foreign to him, the power that lies in his name alone:
Also reminds me of the Library eps in Ten's reaction to River talking about seeing whole armies turn and run away (and the audience reaction, too). Who is that guy? That doesn't sound good. And I guess it's a tension we never really saw resolved in Eleven's era. It took Twelve deciding to just use all that power and then having to tangle properly with the consequences in order to wear it as . . . lightly is certainly not the right word, but in the unconflicted way he does here.

Also 'The Last Tree of Garsennon'? Is that going to be relevant in Chibnall's era? I hope so. I presume 'The Butcher of Skull Moon' was the War Doctor.
It reminded me when Rusty threw out a bunch of grand and high-fantasy sounding things about the Time War in EoT. Like, why not just throw it out there? The Whoniverse is bigger than we'll ever see. Also in Before the Flood when fake!Amy says they're 'before the Minister of War' and Twelve directs her not to elaborate because he'll probably get there eventually.

Also very similar to the Great Intelligence's spinning out of the Doctor's names in Name of the Doctor.

He saved a random man (well, two) - and unwittingly saved one of his oldest friend’s grandfather… And in the process helped One to formulate an alternative to ‘War Doctor’.
On a podcast, I forget which one now, they pointed out the importance of him saving the german soldier as well. It's not just saving the one he got to know because now we're sympathetic to him. It's saving who he could because he could.

This line reminded me of River (not surprisingly, since River sent Nardole to look after the Doctor and passed on her wisdom):
Knew that line was niggling me.

what it means to be the Doctor and how pears are horrible and 'Always try to be nice'. Which just goes to show far we've come since Twelve's beginning, when 'nice' was a pointless effort.
I like the distinction he draws between always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind. It was a distinction, I think, that tripped up Ten, Eleven, and Twelve (Twelve more in his reaction against his past self, the other two being prone to failing to be kind by trying to be nice).

[elisi]

I do see what you mean, but then it's not a meaty episode. I think you wrung about about what there is to say about it, with a little pictures and a little poetry, so that's pretty nice.
Yeah, nothing... coalesced, as I tried to wrestle with it. Unless I went into ALL THE ISSUES and ALL OF TWELVE... (Which, no.)

I assume they did the normal thing and consulted Wikipedia . . .
True. But even so.

I never quite got around to teasing out the intricacies of the mirroring between the Captain and the Doctor(s), none of whom want to die. I mean, the comparison is fairly obvious, but I feel like there's something in there I haven't quite put my finger on.
'A terrible thing, hope'. I almost feel like they're at opposites? One & Twelve want to end it (for different reasons), and eventually make peace with continued living. But the Captain wants to live - he makes peace with dying, in the moment, and nobly offers to sacrifice himself for Bill, but overall he would rather like to live, thank you very much.

No offense to the rest of your post, but this is the best thing in it =DDDDDDD
Yeah, I took the line (which is awesome on its own), projected back and there it was! A scene that should have been.

MMmmm. Nice. I feel like I vaguely thought about this connection and then let it slip away on me . . .
I still think there's more, but my brain just won't.

*blink* good point
One meeting a Dalek that calls him 'a good Dalek' - he'd have exploded on the spot.

Also reminds me of the Library eps in Ten's reaction to River talking about seeing whole armies turn and run away (and the audience reaction, too). Who is that guy?
Ah yes, nice catch! (I need to re-watch those episodes... <3)

It took Twelve deciding to just use all that power and then having to tangle properly with the consequences in order to wear it as . . . lightly is certainly not the right word, but in the unconflicted way he does here.
It wasn't pretty, but it got the job done, in the end.

Like, why not just throw it out there? The Whoniverse is bigger than we'll ever see. Also in Before the Flood when fake!Amy says they're 'before the Minister of War' and Twelve directs her not to elaborate because he'll probably get there eventually.
Oh totally. But TREE? That one just sounded odd.

Also very similar to the Great Intelligence's spinning out of the Doctor's names in Name of the Doctor.
I didn't point this out, but I always wondered at 'The Beast' (which is one of the names thrown at him back then), but here it's The Beast of Trenzalore, so it makes sense now. :)

they pointed out the importance of him saving the german soldier as well. It's not just saving the one he got to know because now we're sympathetic to him. It's saving who he could because he could.
Mmm. And the German was as scared and unhappy. Maybe the Doctor will one day get a German companion.

Knew that line was niggling me.
Happy to be of service.

It was a distinction, I think, that tripped up Ten, Eleven, and Twelve (Twelve more in his reaction against his past self, the other two being prone to failing to be kind by trying to be nice).
Interesting distinction.

[watervole]

ONE: Hmm. Have you come to take the ship back?

I don't think I caught that initially - that One thinks Twelve is from Gallifrey & he's finally been caught.

-----------
Ah! I didn't catch it until you mentioned it. I was too busy thinking that they'd been good in remembering to call it the ship.

[elisi]

Ah! I didn't catch it until you mentioned it. I was too busy thinking that they'd been good in remembering to call it the ship.
I didn't catch it until 3rd viewing.

[unfeathered]

I've always wondered about the TARDIS doors in the early series too. I like your explanation. :-)

Re. the Cybermen, I have to admit, I wondered if a part of the reason they chose Cybermen for the end of last series was so Twelve and One would have just another thing in common here! But, ooh, I hadn't thought about the fact that both their second stories were about Daleks – nice catch!

And thank you for the thoughts on why they chose to look back to One here and that it's about how far he's come since then. I hadn't *quite* got there yet.

The Imp of the Pandorica. - that got a bit of a double-take from me too!

I do like the fact that Twelve's last line is almost a direct opposite of Ten's. I know you've spoken before about Moffat 'fixing' all the things about the Doctor that RTD 'broke' and I think this encapsulates that. Twelve goes with the dignity that Ten, by that point, was dreadfully lacking and I shall miss him all the more for it.

I'm just really glad he's got someone who looks absolutely awesome to follow him. :-)

[elisi]

I've always wondered about the TARDIS doors in the early series too. I like your explanation. :-)
It is literally the only thing that makes sense...

Re. the Cybermen, I have to admit, I wondered if a part of the reason they chose Cybermen for the end of last series was so Twelve and One would have just another thing in common here!
Well, Peter wanted them, but placing them right at the end might have been deliberate, yes.

But, ooh, I hadn't thought about the fact that both their second stories were about Daleks – nice catch!
Thank Rusty! :)

And thank you for the thoughts on why they chose to look back to One here and that it's about how far he's come since then. I hadn't *quite* got there yet.
I think it was one of the Moffat interviews where he touched on it, so I can't claim originality...

that got a bit of a double-take from me too!
Doctor: There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world.
AND IT WAS AN IMP!!

Twelve goes with the dignity that Ten, by that point, was dreadfully lacking and I shall miss him all the more for it.
I liked Ten's ending, because it was SO VERY TEN, but yes, I am very grateful that Twelve went with quiet grace.

I'm just really glad he's got someone who looks absolutely awesome to follow him. :-)
Which is also a pattern:

Ten (v sad & conflicted) -> Eleven (sunshine & puppies)
Twelve (sad & old) -> Thirteen (awesome!)

[maia]

♥ ♥

[elisi]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Oh boy, oh boy

[(Anonymous)]

Well, damn. Screw my exams.

However, since I do want to do this properly, I will still take a few days. I hope you don't mind.


"What do we say to the god of homework?"
"Not today!"

(I recently had a haircut and a friend commented that I look like a '50s kid. Yeah, I do, a bit. But the title stands).

Re: Oh boy, oh boy

[elisi]

No no no, exams are important! Focus on exams!

I took a MONTH to write this, and it's only scratching the surface in a very cursory way, literally hammering out all the points in a very rudimentary fashion without any elegance whatsoever. I am sure you have a million things to add - because you are great that way - but don't attribute greatness to this.

So exams/homework first, then meta.

*does Clara bossy face*

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Our new Doctor is a woman, and this episode is an opportunity to take stock at how far we have all come - both the show itself, and as a society.

Great point. I was one of those who found the sexism jokes a bit too on-the-nose, but I’ll take your word for it about the verbatim lines…

Moffat, in this interview talks about how falling in love makes us fully human - how we are now more than ourselves, we are ‘the one who loves such-and-such, and is loved by them’. .. ASHILDR: And how many have you lost? How many Claras?



/obligatory Clara reaction

Moffat does away with the big drama, and just tells the story of a man (two men, no three men) scared of dying and change.

Beauteous.

The Waste Land is all about WWI, and that's what this episode centers on too.

Listen... don't you think it's time to apply for a position on the Who writing team. Think on it.

[elisi]

Great point. I was one of those who found the sexism jokes a bit too on-the-nose, but I’ll take your word for it about the verbatim lines…
Moffat - somewhere - talked about it, and said how he loves the old show, but winces a lot when watching. Not that it wasn;t ground breaking in many ways, but Companions who were cast to 'appeal to the dads', running around in high heels and short skirts... (and did their damnedest, all hail!). It was a different time.

/obligatory Clara reaction
♥ ♥ ♥ The Clara part is woe-fully underwritten, but it's like... there is SO MUCH CLARA. I don't know where to start.

Beauteous.
It really is, isn't it?

Listen... don't you think it's time to apply for a position on the Who writing team. Think on it.
There is a big difference between writing meta & writing TV scripts. Especially Doctor Who scripts which are notoriously difficult. However, Owls, Proton & I were talking about writing a book about Dr Why & The Waste Land (like I said - brief poetry post still to come).

[sea_thoughts]

There's an unclosed tag somewhere.

Twelve even said to Clara "Immortality isn't living forever. That's not what it feels like. Immortality is everybody else dying." The sad irony is in that very episode, he then visited this very fate on Ashildr because he couldn't bear to lose someone else yet abandoned Ashildr because he couldn't face what he had done.

His refusal to accept the loss of Clara led to Hell Bent, where he actually plucks her out of time (although Clara is also scattered throughout time and space, she never stops being Schroedinger's Companion), forcing Clara to let him go for a second time and take away her memory so he will be able to move on from his grief.

Yet in this episode, he was able to save two strangers from a messy, cold death. He was given proof that Bill and Nardole weren't dead because their memories were alive and they would never be gone as long as the Doctor remembered them. It wasn't all for nothing.

And then finally, just as Clara's memory saved Bill from being mind wiped, Bill's memory gave Clara back to the Doctor.

Yet if you should forget me for a while
And afterwards remember, do not grieve:
For if the darkness and corruption leave
A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
Better by far you should forget and smile
Than that you should remember and be sad.

[elisi]

There's an unclosed tag somewhere.
Yes, I just noticed. (Weirdly enough didn't show up on DreamWidth...)

Twelve even said to Clara "Immortality isn't living forever. That's not what it feels like. Immortality is everybody else dying."
I so very almost used that line! (Probably would have if I'd done this in more depth...)

Yet in this episode, he was able to save two strangers from a messy, cold death. He was given proof that Bill and Nardole weren't dead because their memories were alive and they would never be gone as long as the Doctor remembered them. It wasn't all for nothing.
This. 'Nothing is ever forgotten, not completely. And if something can be remembered, it can come back.'

And then finally, just as Clara's memory saved Bill from being mind wiped, Bill's memory gave Clara back to the Doctor.
I love how circular that is! <3

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Lovely insights! Thank you :)

[elisi]

Thank you. ♥

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

This was fantastic to read!

[elisi]

Thank you! ♥

[eaweek.livejournal.com]

Excellent, as always!

[elisi]

Aw, thank you!

And here we go

[(Anonymous)]

(Truly I say to you: no rush. Really.)

1). On the subject of the 1st Doctor and the !controversy!

Well, personally, I wouldn’t mind if they omitted it, but it’s cool. So. But a few things:

Wrt One then he may just be speaking of humans more generally, it's unlikely that he'd ever think of Time Ladies in such terms (higher species and all that).
If one is offended, I agree that it is perfectly possible to read him not as sexist, but as “speciesist” let’s say. And yes, the Doctor totally used to be that. As in, I Am An Awesome Genius Time Lord, All Puny Humans Should Do As I Say, Allow Me To Gently Bully And Patronise You.

Or, The First Doctor is acting like someone with the Values Dissonance of the early 20th century because he's *with* someone of the early 20th century. The 1st Doctor assimilates, blends in accordingly. I basically read him as a teenager who is trying to be edgy and hip and fit in with the cool kids.

Although…
My thoughts are that the point of the attitude may have been a little more meta...

Yes, my personal favourite. I think I’m slowly coming over to the Chill Out camp. AKA, in DW, the needs of the meta outweigh the needs of the logic.

(For example, I have finally given up on the whole metaphysical analysis thing. Who cares how many copies/clones/souls/echoes/whatever of people are knocking about? Makes an 'ehhhh' noise and a sort of noncommittal wiggley hand gesture. Fuck it, embrace them all! More! You exist, and you exist, everybody exists! Every time something different happens, because of reasons! Basically, everyone in-universe wait until the end of time, see what happens then; okay? Till then *anything* goes. What is needed for the symbolism of *this* story?

Basically, picture my OCD brain as Doctor Strange and my gradually chill-ing self as the Ancient One:
“That doesn't make any sense.”
“Not everything does. Not everything has to.”)

So yes, I think that this IS another case where Moffat prioritises ideas over plot/logic –and I’m not saying that as a bad thing. It is a way of writing; not one I would choose, but I accept it.

Reading his comments about it, I think I got it. What he was trying to do is simulate the EXPERIENCE of watching old-school DW. AKA, there are some uncomfortable bits, you learn to accept those bits and facepalm briefly, but you move on and they don’t ruin the experience for you. I mean, I don’t remember, but the Tomb of the Cybermen probably has some issues because 1967. Of course it would. But *every* time I watch that discussion Two and Victoria have, I *shall* go “daaaaauum”, and congratulate Matt Smith on his excellent taste.


2). Twelve’s humour is in top form in this episode. Favourites include, but are not limited to:

Trolling One with the sunglasses,

“You know that I'm dying, and if you don't want me to go off and die somewhere else where you can't watch, you're going to have to stop shooting at me!”

His increasingly ridiculous attempts to distract One in what basically was a spitting image of me trying to babysit my sister when she was a very disobedient baby. (“Oh, look at the astral map! Look at all the lovely blinking lights. Look at that.”)

Bill making the “windows are the wrong size” comment and him dropping behind to check, like “…they are? Huh.”

Re: And here we go

[(Anonymous)]

3). Random Observations:

Sidebar: The IMP of the Pandorica??I think I died. Like - THE IMP, TREMBLE ALL YOU PEOPLES! It's accurate though, Eleven is impish. <3
In which you almost made me die laughing. I just imagined a tiny, adorable Eleven jumping about while shouting that.
(Although, every time they pull the Oncoming Storm card, I am just begging for a “Ka Faraq Gatri”, a “Karshtakavaar”, come on.)

Please . . . just see me.
Oh for the love of God. How am I supposed to ignore this?
In case you’re interested, the aforementioned inspiration that ambushed me basically was Vision and Seeing in the Twelfth Era (in Short Fic Form). I connected EVERYTHING, it was quite satisfying.
By the title of Just See Me in my deviant gallery. Yeah, the originality is strong with this one, I know.

Now, I think he got it wrong. The message wasn’t that he could do *anything*, that he should save someone and to hell with the consequences.
Just save someone, because there is no such thing as unimportant.
I think it was also a hint that he should LISTEN to his companions because “there is no such thing as unimportant”. Aka always remember Donna Noble and don’t fucking do that again, and thus the contrast of Ten in the Runaway Bride and 11 in a Christmas Carol for example, regarding “importance”, and obviously the contrast of Clara’s ultimate fate. Doctor, you idiot. There, there, you’re learning.

This line is wonderful on oh so many levels. And not just because now I'm imagining Bill, Nardole & Twelve watching Bake-Off
Busy man my ass. See, he totally has time to watch movies –he just prefers watching cooking shows and Disney.
(His browser history was an endless loop of the Frozen soundtrack/mental image of 12 singing outside the vault “MISSY, DO YOU WANT TO BUILD A SNOWMAN?”)


4). Regarding Rusty

I’ve always thought that poor Twelve was overly harsh with himself in Into The Dalek. I mean, yeah, I get it. But saving Gallifrey *has* changed him. His hatred doesn't and can’t just go away like the poor man wants, he isn't a saint, but think back to 9 and 11's first Dalek episodes, where they were both reduced to bodily beating them and screaming in rage. 12 is at least willing to consider the possibility of a good Dalek –although he *is* gleefully "see? I told you so" to getting-slapped-by-Clara levels when it isn't. But he does try to communicate, to change it.

“I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek.”
Also, and I am not the only one to notice, this line can be quite ambiguous in its meaning: The Doctor had taken it to mean the whole “divine hatred” bit from Asylum of the Daleks (-one of my absolute favourite bits btw) just directed towards the Daleks. But you know, hatred against evil shows something. So it could also mean, in perfect honesty, that defining a good Dalek as well, good, a Dalek who rejects their programming and does good things, the Doctor is that. Because he *could* be a traditional Dalek after all he has been through, he does have that darkness in him, but consistently chooses to be good.

After all, as Clara had pointed out, “what they learned”, the whole point, was not that the Daleks are irreversibly evil. It was that a good Dalek is possible –if rare and very difficult to acheive.
Because “By any analysis, evil should always win. Good is not a practical survival strategy.”

And the Daleks are terrific at surviving. One has a very good point. The Daleks are the natural, absolute extension, the logical endpoint of the evil EVERYONE is capable of in the name of logic, survival, winning. Evil is natural. Goodness is always a choice and not an easy one.

(So yes, I am losing myself in semantics here but what I’m trying to say is that maybe, Rusty did not mean the same thing as the Dalek who confronted Nine, even if he took it to mean that. You know, like the thing they did with “Doctor of War”?)

Because people don't believe there could be any such thing as a good Dalek.

And insert you own obvious comment about the Doctor’s often mythological figure, the parallels between Daleks and Time Lords ever since the Time War (who can tell the difference any more/genocides/hybrids) and the Doctor’s renegade status and rare position as a Time Lord who interferes, here.