Two more TLJ links

[elisi]

Via Kerk:

Will Wheaton on The Last Jedi, general thoughts, no spoilers:

“We are the spark, that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down.”
I felt like, if I were a kid today, this movie would be *my* Star Wars, it would the one I would still be talking about in forty years, the way the original Star Wars (that I refuse to call ‘episode whatever’) is for me today.


Via sea_thoughts:

Bitter Gertrude (MANY SPOILERS!!): “This is Not Going to Go the Way You Think”: The Last Jedi Is Subversive AF, and I Am Here for It



If you didn't like TLJ, if you felt it handled [insert issue/story/character] badly, and wonder why some people are so taken with it, this article might provide some answers. I was practically making dolphin noises by the end of it. (And - believe it or not, although I can prove it - I had the idea for the icon before reading the article!)

And for those that would like the icon - as usual free to good homes, but please credit - I made a US version too:

Comments

[kass]

Ooh, I liked both of those; thank you.

[elisi]

You're very welcome! :)

[kerkevik_2014]

Porg One anyone :-)

https://dorktower-feed.dreamwidth.org/284811.html

kerk

[elisi]

Awww. But very nicely drawn. <3

[lynnenne]

Thanks for linking to that article! I relinked on my LJ because it sums up my feelings perfectly. Your icon is totally on point.

[elisi]

You're very welcome.

There are a ton of good articles, but that one just hits the biggest nail on the head.

We watched The Force Awakens a few weeks ago (as preparation) and I was (again) struck by how well it does things - Rey is never 'just' a girl. She is 'just' a scavenger, but her gender is never used derogatively. She is never told her name is pretty. Etc etc. And then The Last Jedi came along and made everything a hundred times better! :D

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

Nice linkage thank you. I agree wholeheartedly with the long article. It has to be that the story moves on, otherwise there's no point to a rebellion moving forward and by definition that means the old characters have to go and make way for the new, younger and less tired rebels. That is scary, and I know that a lot of people hate it, but I love it. It's really much more like true life. Things are changing and the technology in the film is also moving forward, so the people who are rebelling need to be aware of that and see the changes....

:)

Sorry, bit of a rant there as I really enjoyed the film choices made as did the rest of my family :)

Edited to add - of course Luke may be gone, but doesn't mean he can't come back ;)

[elisi]

That is scary, and I know that a lot of people hate it, but I love it. It's really much more like true life. Things are changing and the technology in the film is also moving forward, so the people who are rebelling need to be aware of that and see the changes....
Exactly. I am still trying to work on my own thoughts, to try to formulate why *this* film resonated with me more than any of the others have, but this is a big part of it. They are moving and changing and it's wonderful.

Sorry, bit of a rant there as I really enjoyed the film choices made as did the rest of my family :)
Oh ranting welcome. Esp as the rest of my family were less impressed/didn't like it, so I am the sole person waving the flag.

Edited to add - of course Luke may be gone, but doesn't mean he can't come back ;)
Of course!!

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the links!

I totally agree with the long article, re: changes and the need to keep moving forward.

[elisi]

My pleasure. And I love that article. :)

[sea_thoughts]

Just had dinner with a couple of friends, the male half was less than impressed with TLJ but I pointed out a few good things (including the thing we discusssed where people disobeying orders is portrayed as a Bad Thing) and he seemed thoughtful. I also asked if he thought Kylo had been plotting from the beginning or if he saw an opportunity and seized it. He said he thought the latter option was more likely.

[elisi]

Apparently Kylo's actions (killing his master and taking his place) is a very Sith thing to do. So I like it even more now.

The more I think, the more I like it? Just... all the things. *waves hands*

(Also v pleased that you are using my icon!)

[sea_thoughts]

It is a very Sith thing. It's why you only ever have two Sith because the apprentices all kill their masters, sooner or later. The question is whether Kylo was planning to murder Snoke all along or whether it was a moment of the straw breaking the camel's back. The film supports both interpretations, I think.

I love the icon, thanks for sharing.

[elisi]

This is what comes of never being invested previously - I am constantly learning new things! And yes, both interpretations are valid. I think he was on edge anyway, dissatisfied and unhappy, but which way he was going to deal with that was still up in the air.

And you're very welcome! :)

[sea_thoughts]

The interesting thing is that they've hinted he wasn't Snoke's only apprentice and that Snoke trained others. So maybe we will see them pop up in Episode IX? That would be fascinating.

[elisi]

Yes, Ben Solo ran away from Luke and took several of Luke's other trainees with him... All of them just children presumably.

[sea_thoughts]

I thought those other trainees became the Imperial Guard... which Rey and Kylo just decimated. But maybe a few of them didn't?

[elisi]

...

That would seem a very logical conclusion, yes. Thank you for that, clearly my brain is not working.

(oh god it was SUCH A GORGEOUS SCENE. *cries*)

[sea_thoughts]

I haven't seen anyone else talking about it but when Luke said that Ben took some of his students, it seemed to explain where the Imperial Guard had come from. (Although they didn't seem to use the Force when fighting so maybe that means they were just ordinary warrriors?)

[elisi]

Maybe the novelisation will flesh it out? Who knows. It doesn't bother me overly.

ETA: Detail I missed on my first viewing (just went to see it again. It's so goooooooood! *cries):

Kylo Ren takes some of the students with him - and kills the rest. (Luke says that he reckons Kylo thought Luke was dead too.)

No wonder he goes off to die in the middle of nowhere.

[sea_thoughts]

Yep. I took that in on my second viewing as well. Kylo slaughtered the rest of the apprentices, who hadn't done anything to him. But funnily enough, you don't hear people talking about that...

So yeah, Luke has a fuckton (excuse the swearing) of survivor's guilt. Anyone would. Ben being his nephew just made it even worse.

[elisi]

Kylo slaughtered the rest of the apprentices, who hadn't done anything to him. But funnily enough, you don't hear people talking about that...
Well we didn't see him standing over the little ones in a DARK CAPE WITH YELLOW EYES ready to MURDER THEM.

So yeah, Luke has a fuckton (excuse the swearing) of survivor's guilt. Anyone would. Ben being his nephew just made it even worse.
Swearing absolutely appropriate. Was he wrong? Yes. But if what he saw was something that immediately sparked mass murder, it's easy to see why he had that moment of weakness.

(I love it, it's terrible and complicated and chewy.)

[sea_thoughts]

Well we didn't see him standing over the little ones in a DARK CAPE WITH YELLOW EYES ready to MURDER THEM.

I know you're being a bit facetious but that is one of the images from RotS that haunts me. The little boy's trusting face as he asks "what are we going to do" and then his flinch as Anakin ignites his lightsaber...

*shudders*

Was he wrong? Yes. But if what he saw was something that immediately sparked mass murder, it's easy to see why he had that moment of weakness.

Yes. Some anvils need to be dropped, as TV Tropes puts it. I understand why they couldn't include a visual (the movie was already long enough) but I wish there'd been a bit more emphasis on Ben killing anyone who wouldn't go with him.

Maybe it will be picked up in the next movie.

[elisi]

I know you're being a bit facetious but that is one of the images from RotS that haunts me. The little boy's trusting face as he asks "what are we going to do" and then his flinch as Anakin ignites his lightsaber...
Horrible scene. :( Somehow the OTT visuals make it worse? As in, it was so unnecessary. It would have made more of an impact if he hadn't looked so villain-y.

I understand why they couldn't include a visual (the movie was already long enough) but I wish there'd been a bit more emphasis on Ben killing anyone who wouldn't go with him.
The emphasis is on the repetition of the narrative. We see/hear it three times. A sort of master class in unreliable narrators...

Maybe it will be picked up in the next movie.
I hope so! :)

[sea_thoughts]

Ah, I see what you mean. It would have made more of an impact if Anakin had still looked like Anakin instead of someone with a liver problem.

The emphasis is on the repetition of the narrative. We see/hear it three times. A sort of master class in unreliable narrators...

Yes, very true. But only Luke talks about the other apprentices and the ones who were killed. They don't even rate a mention from Kylo.

[elisi]

Ah, I see what you mean. It would have made more of an impact if Anakin had still looked like Anakin instead of someone with a liver problem.
LOL. Yes, it's one of the reasons I like Kylo Ren so much. We can see the mask (not the literal mask, although that too of course) - the way he deliberately tries to be overly dramatic. It's part of the narrative, not a stylistic choice on part of the move makers. (I am explaining this so badly. But you know what I mean.)

Yes, very true. But only Luke talks about the other apprentices and the ones who were killed. They don't even rate a mention from Kylo.
Well, he was wronged! It's all Luke's fault! If Luke hadn't tried to kil him, those apprentices would still be alive!

Also, if you have the time, watch the video in my latest post, it's the best delve into Anakin I have seen.

[sea_thoughts]

Yes, it's one of the reasons I like Kylo Ren so much. We can see the mask (not the literal mask, although that too of course) - the way he deliberately tries to be overly dramatic. It's part of the narrative, not a stylistic choice on part of the move makers. (I am explaining this so badly. But you know what I mean.)

Yes, the posturing and the attempt to create a feared and 'cool' persona are integrated into the actual story and commented on as a bad thing by other characters (even Snoke!).

Well, he was wronged! It's all Luke's fault! If Luke hadn't tried to kil him, those apprentices would still be alive!

God, I can actually picture him saying these things in canon. *shudders*

I commented on the video, I watched it this week and it's so good. I love this guy's analyses.

[elisi]

Yes, the posturing and the attempt to create a feared and 'cool' persona are integrated into the actual story and commented on as a bad thing by other characters (even Snoke!).
And manipulated by Snoke...

God, I can actually picture him saying these things in canon. *shudders*
He's such a piece of work!!

I commented on the video, I watched it this week and it's so good. I love this guy's analyses.
I may watch more.

[sea_thoughts]

*bounces with excitement* Definitely watch his video on how Newt Scamander is the opposite of toxic masculinity... beneficial masculinity?? And the Born Sexy Yesterday video.

[elisi]

I haven't seen Fantastical Beasts, do I need to? Should I avoid spoilers? Doesn't it matter?

[sea_thoughts]

Just rewatched it - it's a 14 minutes video, you can watch up to around 11:35 without seeing any major spoilers. The video doesn't really touch on the plot of the movie up to that point, just describes Newt's character and what makes him so different from normal fantasy protagonists.

[elisi]

Thank you. :)