Harvey Weinstein and Riley Finn

[elisi]

I've been meaning to write *something* about the whole Harvey Weinstein thing. There are a hundred things I could link you to. However, the thing that I can't get out of my head is this bit of dialogue from 'The Initiative' (slightly edited):

Parker: [Laughs] oh, yeah. The word is stamina. I mean, definitely a bunny in the sack, but later on, well. You know the difference between a freshman girl and a toilet seat? A toilet seat doesn't follow you around after you use it.

Riley decks Parker who hits the floor.

Riley: (Walking between Forrest and Graham.) I can't believe that I did that.

Forrest: What the hell for?

Riley: He--he was just being so crude.

Forrest: Please. You've heard me say much grosser things than that.

Riley: I just didn't like hearing him (he pauses thoughtfully) talk about Buffy that way. I think I... Well, I guess I like her.

I have said before that I think Riley Finn was a metaphor for male privilege (straight, white male privilege specifically) and this is the perfect example.

Riley is a nice guy. Decent. Works hard. Goes to church. Serves his country. And it's possible we're meant to cheer him on for decking Parker. But. The line that stands out is Forrest's:

You've heard me say much grosser things than that.

The only thing different is that Riley happens to like Buffy. The whole of the cold open is a lengthy frat-boy-ish objectification of women. And Riley never speaks up.

I wish they'd done more with him. I can't even tell if the metaphor was deliberate, or if they just took the most basic template possible to create him, and the metaphor was built in.

However, it's useful. (Also see Xander of course.) Because in creating him, they essentially made Buffy date the Patriarchy. And the Patriarchy couldn't hack it and ran away.

But... they never really made the Patriarchy face its issues. Maybe they couldn't. Maybe that would have been a step too far for Joss... (*SO* not surprised at his ex-wife's allegations.)

And so it goes. From the Weinsteins and the Trumps at the top, through the Whedons and the Gibsons right down to the guy on the bus who puts his hand on your knee.

Because all the Riley Finns in the world just laugh when their friends are crude.


Not because she's your sister, your mother, your daughter, your girlfriend. Because he is your brother, your father, your son, your friend.


(ETA: Much like white people need to tackle racism, and straight/cis people need to tackle LGBT+ bigotry.)

Comments

[wolfy_writing]

I think that's a really good point. It fits in with the whole "As a father of daughters" thing - so many guys believe they need to have a specific personal connection to a particular woman to care. (I hope it's a lot of "Feeling like they need to explain their connection in order to justify why they care", but a lot of it sounds like "I only care because it might happen to my little girl!" Especially hearing it from guys like Ben Affleck immediately after learning they sexually harassed women they worked with.)

Also, the way "crude" and "misogynistic" were conflated. You can talk pretty graphically about sex without calling a woman a toilet seat.

[kerkevik_2014]

The one that gets me is Seth Macfarlane's'joke' at the Oscars a few years ago. Not being a fan of them I only saw it for the first time a few days ago. Everyone's calling it a joke; everyone, except possibly for Emma Stone who was standing next to him, laughed as if it were a nervous laughter enducing joke.

But look at his face. He's not joking at all. That man is so furious that he can barely contain his disgust that nothing is being done.

kerk

[shadowkat]

That episode is rather interesting...because it's really all about Spike.

And there's a scene in the middle of it that's played for laughs, and most fans read as a joke about male impotence, including the actor who performed the role.

Yet, watch that scene again from Willow's perspective. Spike saunters comes into her room, Buffy's not there, and he decides to attack Willow instead. But can't get it up, his head explodes. And they both have a chat about something being wrong with him. Willow even wonders if there's anything wrong with her -- and maybe it's her. The framing is an attempted college rape, with vampirism as the metaphor. Yet it's played as the poor guy couldn't get it up, and a joke about impotence.

Then when Buffy does come into the mix and fights off, not Spike but the Initiative trying to grab her and Spike...they refuse to acknowledge a woman fought them off. And the Initiative is run by female doctor, who is very masculine, controlling, and considered "mother".

So we start with Parker, and end with a far worse sexual predator Spike, with the dangerous frat-boy Initiative in between...and Forest later becomes part of Adam's monster squad.

[yourlibrarian]

Good call, yes. And I didn't remember the Spike & Willow scene was in the same episode either -- makes one realize how much has changed in the last decade, at least in terms of awareness and fandom discussion.

[jerusha]

YUP. I agree with this so hard.

[teragramm.livejournal.com]

I have said before that I think Riley Finn was a metaphor for male privilege (straight, white male privilege specifically) This sentence has a lot of truth to it and has made me realize why I disliked Riley so much.

This also why actors like Ben Afleck spouting how disgusting Harvey's behavior was, is just as disgusting. How dare he? His brother has been accused of the same thing and there has been at least one person saying Ben groped her. If your closet isn't so clean, don't complain about someone else's closet.

[sea_thoughts]

But... they never really made the Patriarchy face its issues. Maybe they couldn't. Maybe that would have been a step too far for Joss...

Yeah, they could acknowledge the issue but they could not actually deal with it. That would be admitting they were also at fault. The funny/sad thing is that just acknowledging the existence of patriarchy was so groundbreaking.

Anyway, as Emma Thompson said, Weinstein's hardly the only predator in Hollywood, he was just one of the most... efficient. But as soon as he stopped making money, the protection melted away, didn't it? (Did you see Emma's interview on Newsnight? AMAZING.)

[double_dutchess]

Because all the Riley Finns in the world just laugh when their friends are crude.

Very true, and I'm afraid an awful lot of us are Riley Finns. Fortunately I don't have any Parkers or Forrests among my friends or acquaintances, but I am definitely guilty of not speaking out against people when I should have (or not speaking out strongly enough). I'm just not that brave :-(

[davesmusictank.livejournal.com]

Wow, until you mentioned that clip from Buffy i had totally forgotten it and of course you are so right.

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

Huh. Interesting choice. Surely the more obvious topic to address here would have been the analogies between Weinstein and some of the recently revealed behaviors of Whedon?

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

Really great observation. Sadly I think the writers did intend for Riley to come across as a good guy in that conversation, simply because he put Buffy specifically on a pedestal, and we’re meant to overlook the rest of it as typical guy talk

[desdemonaspace]

I'd forgotten that Riley decked Parker. Well, he deserved to be punched. But you are absolutely right: guys giving other guys a pass, because they're your bro sucks.

Yes, straight/cis people need to tackle LGBT+ bigotry.