Of lizards and elections.

[elisi]

Am posting this now, because I am tired of having so many tabs open.

So, I presume you are all familiar with Hitchhiker's Guide and lizards = politicians, if not, I've copied & pasted the relevant part out below:

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”


Now, Hillary is obviously a lizard. I'm not disputing that for a minute. But she's a female lizard (very rare), and also no one wants the wrong lizard to get it.

(I don't think Obama was a lizard, which is why he's so rare. Although he could play the lizard's game, which is crucial. But that's a different discussion.)

As for Bernie... I don't know. He reminds me of our Jeremy Corbyn. Full of ideals and easy to love. (He's an adorable grandpa who is on the same wavelength as the Tumblr generation - he's immensely lovable! Please don't think I dislike him. In an ideal he'd totally wave a magic wand and change the world overnight.)

But back to Corbyn - I like Corbyn. I like his principles, and the fact that he does his best to stand up for them in a hostile world. And he gets crucified for it, regularly. The press, the Tories (and his own party to a great degree) are all out to get him, painting him in the worst possible light, and straight-up lie about him. But he is loved at grassroots level. Miss M (17 now - I KNOW) has joined Momentum (a grassroots movement inspired by him). I desperately want him to succeed, to somehow manage to gather the party together & offer a solid opposition so we can get rid of the Tories before they completely destroy the country. But it's going to take time, if it works at all. When I'm hopeful, I think that by the time the next election rolls around he'll have worked out to play the game (in a way that doesn't compromise him too much) and be someone who knows how to appeal to all voters, esp those who currently vote Tory and think a Labour government will do nothing but spend profligately.

Back to Bernie - Bernie has that same appeal, but (to borrow from one of the articles I'll link to below) his plans seem to go as follows:

1. Discover our economy has problems
2. Vote for me
3. ????
4. Revolution!

Revolution isn't a workable strategy. What does he even MEAN by that? Beheading the aristocracy? The Occupy movement? Burn Las Vegas & Wall Street to the ground?

The thing is, Bernie and Hillary want the same things (they've voted the same way... I can't remember, but it's 80%+ at least), but Hillary has plans for how to achieve what she wants. Her goals are lower, but she knows how to get there. She is well aware of the fact that she has to battle the GOP every step of the way, and I very much doubt Bernie's 'revolution' will magically make all the Trump supporters suddenly embrace socialism.

At least, that's my view from over here.

Here are some links for y'all, gathered from conversations all over, so sorry if I can't remember who recommended them:

First of all an up-and-front anti-Hillary article, as I don't dispute there are issues:

Hillary Clinton’s Empowerment

Hard Choices. I used to hate Hillary. Now I’m voting for her.

Bernie Sanders and Revolution Betrayed

An All-Caps Explosion of Feelings Regarding the Liberal Backlash Against Hillary Clinton

And finally, something purely positive:

Hillary Clinton's Autism Plan Suggests Times Are Changing

One thing I like very particularly is that it shows how she's evolved. People change. People grow. People learn. There are far too many instances of people dragging out something she did 30 years ago to prove how horrible she is. Maybe that's another thing that pinged me - there is a whole narrative surrounding her, things people repeat because everyone knows it to be true. It reminds me of 'Moffat is a misogynist'.

So yeah, my position is 'Vote for the Lady Lizard'. The Adorable Gramps is adorable, but I don't think he'd fare well against the [other] lizards. Or do a very good job of pretending to be one, or working with them. (I'm not sure if he's a lizard or not. Don't know enough about him - am currently giving him the benefit of the doubt.)

ETA: Not About Gender: 2 Fast 2 Gender (Re. Sander's leadership style & gender stuff.)

And now I'm off to write Clara meta for this project (SO SHINY!), which will be a lot more fun than politics. :)

Comments

[geekslave.livejournal.com]

I've never read "The Hitchhiker's Guide..." That quoted part was awesome. I don't really vote often because it does feel just like having to choose between two lesser evils or lizards.

I will definitely be voting this year because the thought that any of those chucklehead Republicans, especially Trump, is frightening. I'm definitely leaning more towards Hilary than Sanders. I know it's cool to like him and he does seem to have his heart in the right place.But this is my problem with him.

1. Discover our economy has problems
2. Vote for me
3. ????
4. Revolution!

It's all well and good to say you want to do this or that, but how do you plan to realistically achieve it. It's the same thing with Trump. Yeah, he's saying all these things that his supporters seem to want, but it doesn't seem like any of them have bothered to think how he can possibly achieve any of it. He can't just wave a magic wand and because he wants something, it just happens.

That all caps explosion article was great!

Stacey

[elisi]

I've never read "The Hitchhiker's Guide..."
This is something you must rectify. *firm nod*

That quoted part was awesome.
It is the truest thing ever written about politics, and fairly representative of the British viewpoint. We have very very little of the American excitement over political figures.

I don't really vote often because it does feel just like having to choose between two lesser evils or lizards.
When you have lizards like yours, I'd say voting for the lesser evil is even more important. :(

I'm definitely leaning more towards Hilary than Sanders. I know it's cool to like him and he does seem to have his heart in the right place.But this is my problem with him.
If he could actually do any of the stuff eh wants, it'd be brilliant. But I'm way to cynical.

He can't just wave a magic wand and because he wants something, it just happens.
"You'll have so much winning you'll get tired of winning!" What does that even MEAN?

That all caps explosion article was great!
I draw hearts around it. Big angry hearts. :)

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
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[elisi]

I guess there ARE people around on LJ on a Saturday. :)

[greensword.livejournal.com]

Back to Bernie - Bernie has that same appeal, but (to borrow from one of the articles I'll link to below) his plans seem to go as follows:

1. Discover our economy has problems
2. Vote for me
3. ????
4. Revolution!

I prefer Bernie to Hillary, but I also hate the idea that the Presidency is the only position worth voting for. The House & the Senate are important too! Not to mention state and local governments. I'm still frustrated that the democrats didn't do more when they had full control of the congress in 2008-2010 -- to the point where I wonder whether the filibuster thing wasn't an excuse not to deliver on promises.

Anyway, what I wish Bernie would articulate better - although maybe he has and I've missed it - is the importance not just of regaining the presidency but building a progressive movement on all levels.

[elisi]

I prefer Bernie to Hillary, but I also hate the idea that the Presidency is the only position worth voting for. The House & the Senate are important too! Not to mention state and local governments.
True. Although politics is complicated and it takes a lot to make people understand enough to care.

Anyway, what I wish Bernie would articulate better - although maybe he has and I've missed it - is the importance not just of regaining the presidency but building a progressive movement on all levels.
I presume that's what he means when he talks about 'revolution'. But he doesn't seem to be doing a lot to make it happen.

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

I look at this election and all I can think of is Giles. The earth is doomed.

[elisi]

I know how you feel...

[orangerful.livejournal.com]

I wish that the top two people would just team up. Hilary for president, Bernie for Vice president. (though I've also thought that maybe it should be first place gets president, second vice so you might have a dem pres and republican vice...I think that would be cool...our system is so frakked but after listening to a book on the Revolution, it has always been this way!)

[elisi]

I wish that the top two people would just team up. Hilary for president, Bernie for Vice president.
Yes, that would be ideal. And well, stranger things have happened.

[liliaeth]

Isn't that how things used to be at the beginning of the US. I mean, they say so in Hamilton. The problem is to get two people to work together after they've just spent two years attacking one another ;-)

[promethia_tenk]

Yeah, way back in the beginning the runner up did become VP. They realized quickly this was a horrible idea . . .

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I see it pretty much the same way. Bernie is nice and probably a real good guy and my american great aunt and her husband love him, but in the end I hope they go with Hilary, simply because her chance of knocking out the republican candidate out of the park are bigger.

I'd be really really scared for the world with most of these lunatics. I mean there are degrees of bad of course, i still hope they go with someone like Kasich. Would be shit for the US-citizens, but at least he's unlikely to do shit with the nuclear arsenal. Trump with a bomb would basically be Kim Jong un with more firepower.

[elisi]

simply because her chance of knocking out the republican candidate out of the park are bigger.
This. And, as you say, the Republicans are very very scary. :(

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

The thing is, Bernie and Hillary want the same things (they've voted the same way... I can't remember, but it's 80%+ at least), but Hillary has plans for how to achieve what she wants. Her goals are lower, but she knows how to get there. She is well aware of the fact that she has to battle the GOP every step of the way, and I very much doubt Bernie's 'revolution' will magically make all the Trump supporters suddenly embrace socialism.

I agree with you there.

[elisi]

All vote for the Lizard Lady!

[merrymaia.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[elisi]

:)

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Excellent links, thank you. I was wondering a lot about Bernie vs. Hillary lately, having keen interest but limited time/brainpower/attention span to actually hunt down fact checks and figure out clearly where each of them stood. It's always nice to be delivered enlightening content on a silver platter ;) And it confirmed what I seemed to vaguely perceive about them, while delivering actual information and keeping nuance and an open mind. So thanks a lot :)

[elisi]

It's always nice to be delivered enlightening content on a silver platter ;) And it confirmed what I seemed to vaguely perceive about them, while delivering actual information and keeping nuance and an open mind. So thanks a lot :)
Oh, totally my pleasure. I've only scratched the surface really, but at least I feel I understand some of it... And of course, I remember Hillary from way back.

[jerusha]

I actually disagree about Bernie Sanders not being a lizard. I mean, I like the guy, don't get me wrong, but he's willing to say and do some fairly crappy things in order to get elected. Granted, I think he does so because he has a vision for our country, and I like his vision better than anybody on the GOP's side, but I also think he has no idea how to make his vision a reality.

I'm going to be voting for Hillary Clinton because I do think she has a vision, but also a way to get there. I think she knows how and when to compromise, and dammit, I want to see a woman in the fucking White House, and she's super competent.

Also, I loved that all-caps article. I said something similar to Tyson the other night. I have a feeling that Hillary could use an anger translator.

[elisi]

I actually disagree about Bernie Sanders not being a lizard.
I don't know enough about him in order to say, but I realise that I sort of lumped him in with the non-lizards. I shall have to edit to say that I'm unsure.

I'm going to be voting for Hillary Clinton because I do think she has a vision, but also a way to get there. I think she knows how and when to compromise, and dammit, I want to see a woman in the fucking White House, and she's super competent.
This. Just going by 'Who is the most qualified?' (and isn't a mad Republican) she wins hands down.

Also, I loved that all-caps article. I said something similar to Tyson the other night. I have a feeling that Hillary could use an anger translator.
*nods* And she's done shitty things, it's not like the male nominees haven't - it just somehow matters more because she's a woman...

[sea_thoughts]

Yes, agreed with all of this.

[elisi]

*is pleased*

[promethia_tenk]

^^^^ True then, still true now.

Thing is, you can see candidate after candidate after candidate get elected to the presidency with big, shiny ideas about what they're going to do only to run smack into the rock wall of what you can actually do as President. This happened to Obama, though he eventually got his mojo back, many years later. Shininess can get you far in politics; it's not as effective when it comes to actually governing. I think it's extremely rare that a politician comes along who is as prepared as Hillary would be for that rock wall.

I actually voted for Hillary in the 2008 primary. It was a symbolic vote by that point: our primary was so late that Obama already had the nomination locked up. And I was totally happy to vote for Obama come the main election. But. Hillary.

ETA: just reading your links, and I feel like this is a moment of radical political speech in which I would like to participate:

AND IF YOU COME AT ME FOR EVEN ONE GODDAMN SECOND WITH A "YOU JUST LIKE HER BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN" I WILL DESTROY YOU WHERE YOU STAND. I LIKE HER!

*clears throat* I just like her.

I feel like some other people probably do too. But people who just like Hillary Clinton are not the kind of people to feel that that is sufficient reason to vote for somebody, so we talk about experience and policies and whatnot. Which is important! And, like, please do not stop being the people who believe that these things are more important than likability. But they're fighting with a lot of people (not everybody, but a lot) who are coming from 'I just don't like her,' perhaps not always in so many words (though often in so many words), and no amount of reasoned debate is ever going to shift that. So I feel like this needs a lot more saying:

I just like her.

[elisi]

I LOVE that gif, and I was thinking of using it, except I don't think I have it saved. (Well, I've saved it now.) Oh, and you saw this, right?

I think it's extremely rare that a politician comes along who is as prepared as Hillary would be for that rock wall.
This. I can't think of anyone else who knows just how difficult that job is.

I actually voted for Hillary in the 2008 primary. It was a symbolic vote by that point: our primary was so late that Obama already had the nomination locked up. And I was totally happy to vote for Obama come the main election. But. Hillary.
♥ I remember 2008, and I was definitely on Obama's team - but I was very much hoping Hillary would come back, because it would be so very awesome to have a female president.

*clears throat* I just like her.
I want to shout at all the men that they're 'Just voting for Bernie/Trump/Whoever because they're a man'. >:(

Also, I like Hillary sort of for the same reasons I rooted for Eleven before I'd ever seen him on screen. People were so nasty about him, that I decided to like him on principle. Or - like I say above - it's like the Moffat narrative. Hillary's is very similar and it raises my hackles.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Hee!! I love your lizard excerpt here. Tis utterly perfect. And definitely our system (sadly). *Beams*

As for Bernie...well, he has been voted in by his state several times and is a silent, but powerful force in the Senate. When Republicans grudgingly admit you're a hardass that they don't mind capitulating to, it is a win in my book. As for his no plan? Welll...methinks he's a card player. And he doesn't want to give away his playbook yet. But that's just because I know a little more about him. The media goes out of their way to NOT cover him and they are still waiting for him to fall off of the face of the earth. He's a lizard-hybrid, but he's an okay sort. Honestly, whoever gets this, I'll vote for - because they are a damned sight better than the crazy-pants party. I would really love them to be on one ticket though. Gosh, yes!!

*HUGS*

[elisi]

Hee!! I love your lizard excerpt here. Tis utterly perfect. And definitely our system (sadly). *Beams*
It seems to be how democracy works most places...

When Republicans grudgingly admit you're a hardass that they don't mind capitulating to, it is a win in my book.
Ah, but would they capitulate if he was President?

As for his no plan? Welll...methinks he's a card player. And he doesn't want to give away his playbook yet.
If he has a plan, he should show it. 'Revolution' is not a good tactic, and isn't something a lot of people will vote for. I like him very much, and he has all the right principles, but for a country that can't even agree that basic health care is a human right, he'll never be able to get any of it done.

I would really love them to be on one ticket though. Gosh, yes!!
Ah, if only. But yes, when an ACTUAL lizard would be better than any of the Republicans you have a problem...