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Some thoughts on AtS S5
Feeling tired and blah today, mostly because I’ve picked up a cold! Went to see the doctor today, and found out that the baby’s due on the 27th of September. And that’s about it as RL life happenings go... life is slow, but at least I got the house tidied (mostly) on sunday.
Anyway, before everyone leaves out of boredom, husband and I watched ‘Hellbound’ last night, and I was inspired to write down some s5 Angel thoughts that have been nagging me since... oh, the summer? Just a bit of continuity and some parallels that I figured other people might like too.
I love Darla’s s2 arch, especially ‘The Trial’. That moment at the end, when Angel’s ready to turn her - the one thing he refused to do, even when she begged him - and then her saying no, the fact that he cares is enough... *sniffle*. But this exchange made me wonder:
The Trial
ANGEL: "Maybe it would be different. - We don't know. - Maybe, uh... because, you know, I have a soul - if-if I did bite you..."
DARLA: "No."
ANGEL: "We don't know what it would do to you."
And then in “Why We Fight’ that question was answered - what happens when a souled vampire sires someone. Does the soul make a difference?
Why We Fight
ANGEL: “You're the only one I ever did this to...after I got a soul.”
LAWSON: “Do I have one, too?”
ANGEL: (blinks, looks aside) “I don't think it works that way, son.”
LAWSON: “Didn't think so.”
---
LAWSON: (looking up at Angel while getting to his feet) “You gave me just enough, didn't you? Enough of your soul to keep me trapped between who I was and who I should be. I'm nothin'... because of you.”
It makes me so happy that the soul does make a difference, but also makes me think - what would Darla have been like if Angel had sired her?
(And I know Spike sired loads of people in S7 and they seemed as evil as all other vampires, but I think that The First probably managed to bypass the soul just as it did the chip.)
ETA: Go read the threads started by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
superplin and danceswithwords to see better and more coherent arguments.
*******
When I first watched ‘Not Fade Away’ there was one sentence that particularly jumped out at me in that I’ve-heard-that-somewhere-else way:
Not Fade Away
WESLEY: “There is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset or painting or finely-aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any... There is nothing that I want.”
After a while I remembered. It was from ‘To Shanshu in LA’ when Wesley thinks that ‘shanshu’ means ‘death’ and Angel greets this news with nothing more than a shrug:
To Shanshu in LA
WESLEY: "Angel's cut off. Death doesn't bother him because - there is nothing in life he wants! It's our desires that make us human."
How sad that Wesley ends up as cut off from life as Angel - that death was probably a relief.
**********
Now about ‘Hellbound’. First I want to say that I love this episode. I know people complain about Spike being written as stupid in s5, but here he works out what Pavayne is doing and how to beat him all by himself, and also proves Angel wrong. Angel’s a pessimist, but although Spike is possibly rivalling him in the depressed stakes at the time, Spike doesn’t accept defeat.
There are so many things that I could discuss, but for now I’ll go with just one thing - how Spike in this episode is very, very similar to Cordy in ‘Rm w/a vu’. Both characters seemed ‘off’ in the first few episodes of the season in which they appeared. Cordy having lost her money and prestige, Spike being a ghost (having lost himself in a sense).
Now the thing is, that both these characters are pulled down as far as possible - and then they suddenly spring back. And the interesting thing is, that it’s a final insult - something meant to break them - that they grab and claim as their strength. Let me illustrate:
Rm w/a vu
MAUDE: “You better be sorry, you stupid little bitch.”
CORDY: (She stops crying and slowly looks up at Maude): “I’m a bitch.”
MAUDE: “Take off the bed sheets, make a noose. Go on. It’ll all be over soon.”
CORDY (she slowly gets up and looks Maude in the eye): “I’m not a snivelling whiny little Cry-Buffy. I’m the nastiest girl in Sunnydale history. - I take crap from no one.”
MAUDE: “You are going to make yourself a noose and put it around..”
CORDY: “Back off! Polygrip. - You think *you’re* bad? Being all mean and haunty? Picking on poor pathetic Cordy? Well, get ready to haul your wrinkly translucent ass out of this place, because lady, the bitch is back.”
MAUDE: “Do you think that I’m going to take that from trash like you?”
CORDY: “I tell you what I think. I think that you’re going to pack your little ghost bags and get the HELL OUT OF MY HOUSE!”
Hellbound
PAVAYNE: “Yes, squirm, boy. It won't make a difference. Getting what you deserve.”
SPIKE: “You're right. I do deserve to go to hell. But not today”.
(Spike squirms free and knocks Pavayne off of him. Spike stands, and Pavayne is on the floor on his back looking at Spike.)
PAVAYNE: “You dare!”
SPIKE: (as Spike stands, the portal behind him closes) ”Quite a bit, mate. Reality bends to desire. That was it, right? That's why I could touch Fred, write your name in the glass. All I had to do was want it bad enough. (Spike looks down at his naked body and clothing appears on him again) And guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch!”
Cordy revels in being the meanest girl in town. Spike affirms that yes he deserves to go to hell. But when it comes to these two no one else is going to tell them what to do or who they are! They are comfortable with themselves, flaws and all - and who's to say that a flaw can't be your strength? This is one of the reasons that we love these characters. They speak their mind and give as good as they get!
But now my brain is turning to mush and I keep misspelling words, so I think I’d better stop. I hope you found at least some of this worth your time.
Anyway, before everyone leaves out of boredom, husband and I watched ‘Hellbound’ last night, and I was inspired to write down some s5 Angel thoughts that have been nagging me since... oh, the summer? Just a bit of continuity and some parallels that I figured other people might like too.
I love Darla’s s2 arch, especially ‘The Trial’. That moment at the end, when Angel’s ready to turn her - the one thing he refused to do, even when she begged him - and then her saying no, the fact that he cares is enough... *sniffle*. But this exchange made me wonder:
The Trial
ANGEL: "Maybe it would be different. - We don't know. - Maybe, uh... because, you know, I have a soul - if-if I did bite you..."
DARLA: "No."
ANGEL: "We don't know what it would do to you."
And then in “Why We Fight’ that question was answered - what happens when a souled vampire sires someone. Does the soul make a difference?
Why We Fight
ANGEL: “You're the only one I ever did this to...after I got a soul.”
LAWSON: “Do I have one, too?”
ANGEL: (blinks, looks aside) “I don't think it works that way, son.”
LAWSON: “Didn't think so.”
---
LAWSON: (looking up at Angel while getting to his feet) “You gave me just enough, didn't you? Enough of your soul to keep me trapped between who I was and who I should be. I'm nothin'... because of you.”
It makes me so happy that the soul does make a difference, but also makes me think - what would Darla have been like if Angel had sired her?
ETA: Go read the threads started by
superplin and danceswithwords to see better and more coherent arguments.*******
When I first watched ‘Not Fade Away’ there was one sentence that particularly jumped out at me in that I’ve-heard-that-somewhere-else way:
Not Fade Away
WESLEY: “There is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset or painting or finely-aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any... There is nothing that I want.”
After a while I remembered. It was from ‘To Shanshu in LA’ when Wesley thinks that ‘shanshu’ means ‘death’ and Angel greets this news with nothing more than a shrug:
To Shanshu in LA
WESLEY: "Angel's cut off. Death doesn't bother him because - there is nothing in life he wants! It's our desires that make us human."
How sad that Wesley ends up as cut off from life as Angel - that death was probably a relief.
**********
Now about ‘Hellbound’. First I want to say that I love this episode. I know people complain about Spike being written as stupid in s5, but here he works out what Pavayne is doing and how to beat him all by himself, and also proves Angel wrong. Angel’s a pessimist, but although Spike is possibly rivalling him in the depressed stakes at the time, Spike doesn’t accept defeat.
There are so many things that I could discuss, but for now I’ll go with just one thing - how Spike in this episode is very, very similar to Cordy in ‘Rm w/a vu’. Both characters seemed ‘off’ in the first few episodes of the season in which they appeared. Cordy having lost her money and prestige, Spike being a ghost (having lost himself in a sense).
Now the thing is, that both these characters are pulled down as far as possible - and then they suddenly spring back. And the interesting thing is, that it’s a final insult - something meant to break them - that they grab and claim as their strength. Let me illustrate:
Rm w/a vu
MAUDE: “You better be sorry, you stupid little bitch.”
CORDY: (She stops crying and slowly looks up at Maude): “I’m a bitch.”
MAUDE: “Take off the bed sheets, make a noose. Go on. It’ll all be over soon.”
CORDY (she slowly gets up and looks Maude in the eye): “I’m not a snivelling whiny little Cry-Buffy. I’m the nastiest girl in Sunnydale history. - I take crap from no one.”
MAUDE: “You are going to make yourself a noose and put it around..”
CORDY: “Back off! Polygrip. - You think *you’re* bad? Being all mean and haunty? Picking on poor pathetic Cordy? Well, get ready to haul your wrinkly translucent ass out of this place, because lady, the bitch is back.”
MAUDE: “Do you think that I’m going to take that from trash like you?”
CORDY: “I tell you what I think. I think that you’re going to pack your little ghost bags and get the HELL OUT OF MY HOUSE!”
Hellbound
PAVAYNE: “Yes, squirm, boy. It won't make a difference. Getting what you deserve.”
SPIKE: “You're right. I do deserve to go to hell. But not today”.
(Spike squirms free and knocks Pavayne off of him. Spike stands, and Pavayne is on the floor on his back looking at Spike.)
PAVAYNE: “You dare!”
SPIKE: (as Spike stands, the portal behind him closes) ”Quite a bit, mate. Reality bends to desire. That was it, right? That's why I could touch Fred, write your name in the glass. All I had to do was want it bad enough. (Spike looks down at his naked body and clothing appears on him again) And guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch!”
Cordy revels in being the meanest girl in town. Spike affirms that yes he deserves to go to hell. But when it comes to these two no one else is going to tell them what to do or who they are! They are comfortable with themselves, flaws and all - and who's to say that a flaw can't be your strength? This is one of the reasons that we love these characters. They speak their mind and give as good as they get!
But now my brain is turning to mush and I keep misspelling words, so I think I’d better stop. I hope you found at least some of this worth your time.
no subject
Re. Lawson - I think he was looking for a reason, something other than just the kill. Angelus of course thought killing an art - Spike just had fun. Most vampires were probably too stupid to ever look for any sort of meaning. Actually, Lawson was probably a lot like Riley - he fell apart with out a mission.
And I think that you're definitely right about Spike and the soul thing - actually, see my response to
Anyway, will go edit the bit that makes no sense.
no subject
I think this is exactly right, and it's echoed nicely in the episode title.
no subject
Good point!