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Awesome things. :)
Yesterday the postman brought two surprises. One was a personalised birthday card for the Cherub (featuring Eleven).
The other was a postcard for my OC. (In a language I couldn't read.)
Both were from the always wonderful![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
the_redjay.
(The postcard was from her OC, and to be on the safe side she'd put it through google translate! What is even my life? ♥)
~
In other news, this is also awesome:
Mary Sue, what are you? or why the concept of Sue is sexist.
This is the beginning (please read the whole thing):
~
ETA: Oh, and a gorgeous Spuffy vid made by the same vidder who did the Doctor Who Skyfall one:
Can't Pretend
The other was a postcard for my OC. (In a language I couldn't read.)
Both were from the always wonderful
the_redjay. (The postcard was from her OC, and to be on the safe side she'd put it through google translate! What is even my life? ♥)
~
In other news, this is also awesome:
Mary Sue, what are you? or why the concept of Sue is sexist.
This is the beginning (please read the whole thing):
So, there’s this girl. She’s tragically orphaned and richer than anyone on the planet. Every guy she meets falls in love with her, but in between torrid romances she rejects them all because she dedicated to what is Pure and Good. She has genius level intellect, Olympic-athelete level athletic ability and incredible good looks. She is consumed by terrible angst, but this only makes guys want her more. She has no superhuman abilities, yet she is more competent than her superhuman friends and defeats superhumans with ease. She has unshakably loyal friends and allies, despite the fact she treats them pretty badly. They fear and respect her, and defer to her orders. Everyone is obsessed with her, even her enemies are attracted to her. She can plan ahead for anything and she’s generally right with any conclusion she makes. People who defy her are inevitably wrong.
God, what a Mary Sue.
I just described Batman.
~
ETA: Oh, and a gorgeous Spuffy vid made by the same vidder who did the Doctor Who Skyfall one:
Can't Pretend
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That's some sweet surprises in the mail! :D Wonderful!
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Sad, but true. So let's be on the lookout!
That's some sweet surprises in the mail! :D Wonderful!
Made my day! :)
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Great stuff! ^_^
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I never use the term Sue anymore. It's so thrown about it doesn't even mean anything.
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And I've never been fond of the term. Have never created self-inserts called Raven either, mind you... ;)
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Indeed. Also, your icon is awesome. :)
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And the icon is by
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*sigh*
*HUGS*
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And so what, you say? Well, the problem was, we were writing interactive fiction. And when you try to write interactive fiction with a character like that, it's no fun at all, because they've always got to be the best at everything. The entire universe warps around them.
That's always been the definition of Mary Sue/Marty Stu to me. Not that they're male or female, not whether they're a self insert, but 1. Do they warp the entire universe and all the characters in it around them, and 2. Is this fun for anyone but the original author?
I don't mind if people want to write that kind of character when they're not foisting them on unwilling co-authors. But I'm not too keen on reading them, because if they're not YOUR special awesome woobie, they're just no fun.
(And no, I'm not against original characters at all -- I love them and write tons of them myself. And I do think that to learn how to write good ones you probably have to write a bunch of awful ones first. I just probably won't be reading them.)
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This, yes. That's how I define it as well, though these days the phenomenon is just as likely occur with a canon character who has been fandom-woobified into oblivion as it is an OC, and such woobies are nearly always male. We need a new non-gendered term for it - black hole characters for the universe warping effects?
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This. Especially #1, which is the definition I was using, except people seemed to throw it around in a very different way.
I don't mind if people want to write that kind of character when they're not foisting them on unwilling co-authors. But I'm not too keen on reading them, because if they're not YOUR special awesome woobie, they're just no fun.
M-hm. Thanks for sharing, it's always good to get as many perspectives as possible.
(And no, I'm not against original characters at all -- I love them and write tons of them myself. And I do think that to learn how to write good ones you probably have to write a bunch of awful ones first. I just probably won't be reading them.)
LOL.
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I used to have a problem with the Mary Sue term, but not for reasons having to do with sexism. I just used to see it all the time and never really got what it meant, or didn't agree with the label. Until I ran into what I consider the quintessential Mary Sue, then I got it. I think there are Mary Sues and Gary Sues and they're both lame.
Stacey
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Until I ran into what I consider the quintessential Mary Sue, then I got it.
Did her name begin with Bella and end with Swan? ;)
I think there are Mary Sues and Gary Sues and they're both lame.
Well they sort of kill any plot or tension...
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LOL, no, not Bella. I've never really given "Twilight" enough thought to really think of her as a Mary Sue, though she probably is one. I definitely don't like her. I was referring to Gwen from "Torchwood."
Stacey
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Well, I think it's exaggerated for comedic effect.
LOL, no, not Bella. I've never really given "Twilight" enough thought to really think of her as a Mary Sue, though she probably is one.
She is actually dealt with very well in that essay. :)
I was referring to Gwen from "Torchwood."
Gwen? Really? Not that I can't see what you mean (she and Rose both have that Speshul thing about them), but Gwen screws up too much.
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For me I consider a Mary Sue (or Gary Sue) to be a character that has people constantly fawning all over them (was there any reason Andy needed to have a crush on her?), the writing makes it seem like they can do no wrong, by either making them infallible or glossing over the mistakes they do make.
I personally don't mind too much the Mary Sue characters who are written as near perfect. They can be boring, but they're basically inoffensive. But when you have a character making mistakes constantly and the writers refuse to acknowledge those mistakes or face any real consequences those are the characters I hate. That's why I started to loathe Gwen by mid-season 1. I know she was the main character and Rhys was only supporting but it ticked me off that she cheated on him for basically no reason (I know they came up with an excuse for her, but it was lame) and then we're not only supposed to weep for her as she cries over pizza, but she gets to mind rape Rhys to confess briefly just so she can ease her guilty conscience, and she gets away with it scot-free. Yeah, Gwen constantly made mistakes but because she was never written as being held accountable, or that the audience should really even see what she did as so bad, I never liked her much, and do consider her a Mary Sue.
Stacey
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Basically I don't really have a reply. (If you can believe it.) I can see where you're coming from (both Rose & Gwen have that every-woman audience-POV thing going on that never does much for me), but she is enough of a screw-up not to register as an issue. Yes she gets away with a lot, but *we* know. She mindwipes Rhys, but we are definitely not meant to see this as a good thing, but as her misusing the resources she has available, and a definite low-point, and as Torchwood seeping into her.
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That, and Roda/Seeker feels. <3
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And oh yes, all the feels. <3