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Whether to kill yourself or not is one of the most important decisions a teenager can make.
Oh Heathers. It's like doing the time warp. And it's still... utterly singular.
As you might have guessed Darcy and I watched it tonight, and what I noticed was its... Buffyness. Or rather - I don't think Buffy would have been Buffy without Heathers. The twisted sensibility to the whole thing, the *language*, the subversion - Buffy used it all.
Other things... There are really no nice characters (apart from Martha - the overweight girl - and Veronica's old friend, I think her name was Betty?). The guys are either idiot jocks (main contribution: date rape. And this is shown pretty conclusively, and almost as an aside), and the 'cool' outsider turns out to be a complete psychopath. Most of the characters are mostly interested in popularity and/or which university they'll be going to. All of which is especially interesting because it's from a female POV throughout. Except Veronica isn't a saint, or a hero.
Mostly, then I just really like the subversion. J.D. might be cool, and he certainly has legitimate reasons to act out, but that doesn't excuse him. His man!pain is given zero space, and that's very good. (And there's no great love story. Just teenagers being teenagers.)
Finally, it's all very long ago and now I feel old. But I guess that's unavoidable.
/rambling
As you might have guessed Darcy and I watched it tonight, and what I noticed was its... Buffyness. Or rather - I don't think Buffy would have been Buffy without Heathers. The twisted sensibility to the whole thing, the *language*, the subversion - Buffy used it all.
Other things... There are really no nice characters (apart from Martha - the overweight girl - and Veronica's old friend, I think her name was Betty?). The guys are either idiot jocks (main contribution: date rape. And this is shown pretty conclusively, and almost as an aside), and the 'cool' outsider turns out to be a complete psychopath. Most of the characters are mostly interested in popularity and/or which university they'll be going to. All of which is especially interesting because it's from a female POV throughout. Except Veronica isn't a saint, or a hero.
Mostly, then I just really like the subversion. J.D. might be cool, and he certainly has legitimate reasons to act out, but that doesn't excuse him. His man!pain is given zero space, and that's very good. (And there's no great love story. Just teenagers being teenagers.)
Finally, it's all very long ago and now I feel old. But I guess that's unavoidable.
/rambling
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ETA: Let me know what you think, if/when you get there?
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Veronica just smokes a cigarette and watches the boy burn. No tears, no pleading, no "all a man needs is a woman's love". She utterly rejects the notion that she needs either "her friends" or a man to define her. In the end, Buffy confirms that she needs both her friends and a man to define her.
And it deals in some of the same issues - power and control. Plus it "deconstructs" the bad boy/misunderstood/too cool for school bohemian hero (a la James Dean) we're normally supposed to admire. **END SPOILERS**
I'm amazed that film got wide release 30(?) years ago; I can't imagine that film being released today. It's too wickedly, wonderfully "dark".
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Reporting back - I watched Heathers and DAMN! That was amazing.
*beams* I am very happy! :D
I kept expecting Veronica to say those loving, kind words that would "Save" the poor misunderstood boy and instead...just, DAMN. That was a singular image.
I know... He's such a typical lost boy (complete with tragic backstory) and... nothing. He's a psychopathic jerk, and gets treated as such - esp when he starts spouting all his 'deep' stuff.
At the end, Buffy's "heroic arc" is about being able to say "I love you" (the emphasis on the female ability to "connect" and relate)
*ponders* Yes and no... One of the things I like about Buffy's story is how she gets all the man!pain - people are forever complaining about how she's closed off etc in the later seasons, whereas a male characters would be stoic or whatever. Not that I can't see what you mean, but I'm quite happy that she manages to get past that emotional stony-ness and learn to reach out again. Not saying they couldn't have done it differently, but I'm at a place where the show is what it is, and I'm not grumbling. :)
Veronica just smokes a cigarette and watches the boy burn. No tears, no pleading, no "all a man needs is a woman's love". She utterly rejects the notion that she needs either "her friends" or a man to define her. In the end, Buffy confirms that she needs both her friends and a man to define her.
To be fair, Buffy is a good bit older. And Veronica goes off to choose a new friend, someone who'll not judge her or vice versa.
And it deals in some of the same issues - power and control. Plus it "deconstructs" the bad boy/misunderstood/too cool for school bohemian hero (a la James Dean) we're normally supposed to admire.
Heathers has the advantage of being a movie, and thus is able to focus on a single thing. A TV show does, by its very nature, have to pursue several avenues & stories. (Not defending Joss really, more saying that they're different things.)
I'm amazed that film got wide release 30(?) years ago; I can't imagine that film being released today. It's too wickedly, wonderfully "dark".
Let's hope the future circles back to films like these.
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Except Veronica isn't a saint, or a hero.
Heh, agreed! I'd say she at least ends the movie as a better person than she was at the beginning.
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Plus I'm sure Joss stole 'What's your damage?' and '[insert description of your choice], much?' wholesale. (Unless they were genuine lines teenagers used then? *is clueless*
And early Cordelia and Harmony seem like they would have been right at home with the Heathers.
Ooooh yes. *is reminded of Reptile Boy*
Heh, agreed! I'd say she at least ends the movie as a better person than she was at the beginning.
Oh yes. Darcy and I agreed that if there was a message (we had to think), it was probably 'Don't be a jerk'.
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Not really. Try Massacre at Central High, the forerunner. Heathers is different, and I'm sure many people would prefer it, but to me Massacre at Central High is much more solid.
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I actually own the DVD. I bought it used when a record store was going out of business. I should pull it out!
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Tis rather awesome. (Darcy described it as 'The Breakfastclub with bombs' which isn't quite accurate, yet it's certainly from that era.
I actually own the DVD. I bought it used when a record store was going out of business. I should pull it out!
We were looking through Netflix, trying to find something to watch. And hey presto - there it was!
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