It’s a wonderful scene and seeing it like was beautiful. I’ve never cried over a fictional character as much as I did over Ianto; it just broke me. I so wish they could have had a longer run. I would love to know more about Ianto’s though process falling in love with Jack. Sigh.
It’s a wonderful scene and seeing it like was beautiful. Which is why I watched it and went straight to LJ to post it! <3
I’ve never cried over a fictional character as much as I did over Ianto; it just broke me. You and me both. No other character, ever, has been anything like the same. (I wrote fic immediately after, as a way of coping. Very short: Dear Jack. Helped a tiny bit. What helped the most was the House of the Dead radio play which finally brought closure. Still - it hurts.)
House of the dead (or any other radio play) is not very familiar to me beside their existence (except Ianto’s speech in Deadline. Blip in time <3), but I found a transcript and read it just now.
Each new death must take such toll on Jack after all this time, and I do believe Ianto meant something quite special to him. I think Ianto took him by surprise actually. Losing him must have wrecked him. I can see him wanting a last chance to see him like he did in the play.
Dear Jack: Wonderful little tale.
"If it was a weevil, please lie in the report." That does sound like something he would write!
"I kept a space empty." This made me a little teary eyed actually.
House of the dead (or any other radio play) is not very familiar to me beside their existence (except Ianto’s speech in Deadline. Blip in time <3), but I found a transcript and read it just now. I could send it to you if you like? I've never listened to radio plays except for the Torchwood ones, and House of the Dead is outstanding in that they get John Barrowman to *act*. (He's not great on radio, bless him.)
Each new death must take such toll on Jack after all this time, and I do believe Ianto meant something quite special to him. I think Ianto took him by surprise actually. Losing him must have wrecked him. I can see him wanting a last chance to see him like he did in the play. Nearly killed me (I wrote a loooooong meta), but deeply satisfying. Darn I love fanservice when it's done right.
Dear Jack: Wonderful little tale. Thank you. :)
"If it was a weevil, please lie in the report." That does sound like something he would write! I love writing Ianto!
"I kept a space empty." This made me a little teary eyed actually. And it's all destroyed. *Sniff*
(Sorry for the late reply) I don’t want to be a bother, but thanks for the offer. I did read the transcript and I found part of it in a video on youtube. :)
Even though I had my issues with his stories I always thought RTD's greatest strength was his ability to write realistic/intimate dialogue, something I think Mofftat often struggles to do.
Great vid. One of my favorite scenes. I remember being so excited when I saw it. It gave me such hope for the show and Jack/Ianto...and then the rest of COE happened. *sob*
It is the Rusty (and Joss) way - when people are happy & things are going well, you should assume the position, because EVERYTHING IS GOING TO HELL! /o\
What's kind of funny about that though is things weren't exactly going well for Jack and Ianto. They were in an okay place but clearly Ianto was insecure about their relationship and Jack wasn't exactly reassuring him about it.
What's kind of funny about that though is things weren't exactly going well for Jack and Ianto. They were in an okay place but clearly Ianto was insecure about their relationship and Jack wasn't exactly reassuring him about it. That's partially Rusty setting things up and jossing stuff a little. (IMHO. *g*)
I've always liked that scene. His family just adds dimensions to Ianto. Honestly, CoE is by far my favorite Torchwood. All the characters are so well written & developed.
::sigh::
I know it's not popular to say, but I kind of miss having both RTD & Moffat involved in DW. They helped curb each other's worst excesses, you know?
I would really like to see what would happen if RTD wrote a companion introduction episode under Moffat. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen, because (a) RTD is severely limiting his work to take care of his partner, and (b) Moffat tends to grab plot-significant episodes for himself.
But he couldn't do that - it'd be Moffat's character, so others couldn't write him/her/other until they knew them...
Besides, they both (quite rightly) grab plot-significant episodes, and re-write a lot of the others. (I don't know how much Moffat re-writes, but RTD re-wrote every episode except for Moffat's, Chibnall's and a couple of others.)
/writer feeling strongly about stuff
(The idea is interesting, but considering that they assemble characters in COMPLETELY different ways, the result could be... Well.)
I really need to read "The Writer's Tale", don't I? I think it's back available on amazon (it wasn't when I wanted it!) so I may need to check it out!
They do assemble characters in completely different ways, but I'm not sure it couldn't be complementary. I enjoy Moffat era companions, but I don't find myself caring the way I did about say, Donna.
I really need to read "The Writer's Tale", don't I? I think it's back available on amazon (it wasn't when I wanted it!) so I may need to check it out! Yesssssss you do!
They do assemble characters in completely different ways, but I'm not sure it couldn't be complementary. I enjoy Moffat era companions, but I don't find myself caring the way I did about say, Donna. I really wish we could have Moffat's Writers Tale, because I'd love to get a better look inside his head! I know what you mean, in that Rusty is great at the every(wo)man characters that spring from the page - however I don't find any of them as interesting as Moffat's.
Don't the writers often have to write companions before they know them, though? I mean, this last series, did Gatiss and Neil Gaiman and all the rest have to wait until Moffat had the first draft of "Bells of St. John" finished? Or do they all get a handout that says, "Clara Oswald: witty, sharp, and psychologically savvy, more cautious and closed than Amy, brave rather than balls-to-the-wall fearless, knows what normal is and notices when the Doctor isn't being it?" It seems to me that getting a series out on time would involve a certain amount of laying down guidelines and trusting your writers to help the characters grow organically—not to mention trusting the actors to help keep things consistent.
You're probably right; I'd just really like to see what RTD's writing looks like under Moffat, and character introductions are one thing that I really think he does well. Just look at Martha. Within a very short span of time, one scene, we know that she's calm, balanced, possibly a little bit too conscientious, and that she reacts with amused confusion (but, significantly, no fear or hostility) when strange men do strange things like taking their tie off at her. For all that I find him chokingly melodramatic at times, the man has a gift for outlining an emotional landscape in relatively few strokes, and I think Moffat could get that talent pointed in a direction I would really enjoy.
Don't the writers often have to write companions before they know them, though? I guess so - but presumably the showrunner then goes over the script and polishes it...
You're probably right; I'd just really like to see what RTD's writing looks like under Moffat, and character introductions are one thing that I really think he does well. Just look at Martha. Oh definitely. Here's what Moffat himself had to say about Smith & Jones:
[On ‘Smith and Jones’] Anyone who's interested in writing should study that script - it's one of the most technically brilliant scripts you'll ever get your hands on. The construction of it is dazzling, and yet - and this is the REALLY dazzling part - it's designed to feel light and airy and simple. And for that dim-witted reason, people think it IS simple. It's not, it's incredible. Look, what's folded away in all that gorgeous froth. A new main character, whole and complete - an old friend within minutes. Her entire background and family, all there for us, perfectly clear. And while all that’s going on, AT THE SAME TIME, a hospital gets stolen and taken to the (bloody) moon. All this in under ten minutes! And never mind all that, the entire format of the entire show is explained and sold to a brand new audience. Stunning. But - and this what makes your blood boil - because it's made to LOOK easy, idiots and critics think it IS easy. Try it! Go on, get yer pen, TRY it.
Thing is, I get a lot of praise for the complexity of Blink, and quite bloody right too. But because I know what I'm talking about, I can tell you as a matter of FACT, that Smith And Jones is WAY more complex. But because Blink wears its complexity on its sleeve, cos that was kind of the point, Smith And Jones conceals it, cos it's a means to an end.
Really and truly, Smith And Jones, go study. And if you don't think it's brilliant, shut up until you understand that it is.
Re. RTD writing for Moffat, then he DID write an episode of Sarah Jane where Eleven guest starred. (Death of the Doctor - SJA S4.05) Interestingly it didn't make the RTD stans warm up to Eleventy, nor did the Eleven-fans grow to appreciate Rusty...
I have the impression, though from where I'm not quite sure, that Moffat rewrites others' episodes far less than RTD ever did; for example, while he did edits on The Doctor's Wife, he didn't touch the script for Nightmare in Silver.
Yes, I think Moffat rewrites less, but I'm pretty sure he was involved with getting Nightmare in SIlver into shape - Gaiman isn't a scriptwriter, so if nothing else there would have been a practical editing.
I'm trying to remember--I think it was, he gave plenty of advice on ideas and so forth, but the actual words of the script he didn't edit. And if that's his approach to the second episode of a man who usually works in another medium, he's not likely to be very hands-on with experienced writers. This is compared to RTD who would, like, rewrite from page one on some of them.
(Nightmare in Silver, for what it's worth, also lost more than three scenes from its beginning and many other bits at the filming stage presumably for time reasons. But that's a different conversation.)
"On the one hand I don’t have time to write Doctor Who," said Gaiman. "It doesn’t pay very well, but you also have to rewrite it and rewrite it and rewrite it and never get paid, whereas in America you get paid for every rewrite..."
So I don't think Moffat let anything through that wasn't up to muster, even if he didn't edit every word like Rusty did. And considering how Rusty nearly killed himself... That's probably a good thing. (I adore The Writers Tale, but good god, the man is crazy.)
And oh, editing and so forth can upend anything. /o\
I've always liked that scene. His family just adds dimensions to Ianto. Honestly, CoE is by far my favorite Torchwood. All the characters are so well written & developed. CoE is certainly the best written, yes. But it also destroyed it. And it wasn't Torchwood Torchwood, apart from in little glimpses here and there. *sigh*
I know it's not popular to say, but I kind of miss having both RTD & Moffat involved in DW. They helped curb each other's worst excesses, you know? LOL! Seriously - read The Writers Tale. Moffat had very, very little influence on RTD. Except for making sure his scripts followed RTD's plans. (And vice versa once Moffat began writing S5.)
Great scene! Quite striking within the set of episodes if I remember well. And I agree with you, RTD's strongest pieces were the smaller, domestic, quieter times.
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It’s a wonderful scene and seeing it like was beautiful. I’ve never cried over a fictional character as much as I did over Ianto; it just broke me. I so wish they could have had a longer run. I would love to know more about Ianto’s though process falling in love with Jack. Sigh.
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Which is why I watched it and went straight to LJ to post it! <3
I’ve never cried over a fictional character as much as I did over Ianto; it just broke me.
You and me both. No other character, ever, has been anything like the same. (I wrote fic immediately after, as a way of coping. Very short: Dear Jack. Helped a tiny bit. What helped the most was the House of the Dead radio play which finally brought closure. Still - it hurts.)
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Each new death must take such toll on Jack after all this time, and I do believe Ianto meant something quite special to him. I think Ianto took him by surprise actually. Losing him must have wrecked him. I can see him wanting a last chance to see him like he did in the play.
Dear Jack: Wonderful little tale.
"If it was a weevil, please lie in the report." That does sound like something he would write!
"I kept a space empty." This made me a little teary eyed actually.
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I could send it to you if you like? I've never listened to radio plays except for the Torchwood ones, and House of the Dead is outstanding in that they get John Barrowman to *act*. (He's not great on radio, bless him.)
Each new death must take such toll on Jack after all this time, and I do believe Ianto meant something quite special to him. I think Ianto took him by surprise actually. Losing him must have wrecked him. I can see him wanting a last chance to see him like he did in the play.
Nearly killed me (I wrote a loooooong meta), but deeply satisfying. Darn I love fanservice when it's done right.
Dear Jack: Wonderful little tale.
Thank you. :)
"If it was a weevil, please lie in the report." That does sound like something he would write!
I love writing Ianto!
"I kept a space empty." This made me a little teary eyed actually.
And it's all destroyed. *Sniff*
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And don't worry about the late reply, I know just how you feel. :)
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Good scene, lovie...
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(I miss Ianto SO MUCH. Why did they have to kill my show? /rhetorical question)
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Stacey
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Stacey
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That's partially Rusty setting things up and jossing stuff a little. (IMHO. *g*)
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::sigh::
I know it's not popular to say, but I kind of miss having both RTD & Moffat involved in DW. They helped curb each other's worst excesses, you know?
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I would pay money to see that!!
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Besides, they both (quite rightly) grab plot-significant episodes, and re-write a lot of the others. (I don't know how much Moffat re-writes, but RTD re-wrote every episode except for Moffat's, Chibnall's and a couple of others.)
/writer feeling strongly about stuff
(The idea is interesting, but considering that they assemble characters in COMPLETELY different ways, the result could be... Well.)
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They do assemble characters in completely different ways, but I'm not sure it couldn't be complementary. I enjoy Moffat era companions, but I don't find myself caring the way I did about say, Donna.
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Yesssssss you do!
They do assemble characters in completely different ways, but I'm not sure it couldn't be complementary. I enjoy Moffat era companions, but I don't find myself caring the way I did about say, Donna.
I really wish we could have Moffat's Writers Tale, because I'd love to get a better look inside his head! I know what you mean, in that Rusty is great at the every(wo)man characters that spring from the page - however I don't find any of them as interesting as Moffat's.
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You're probably right; I'd just really like to see what RTD's writing looks like under Moffat, and character introductions are one thing that I really think he does well. Just look at Martha. Within a very short span of time, one scene, we know that she's calm, balanced, possibly a little bit too conscientious, and that she reacts with amused confusion (but, significantly, no fear or hostility) when strange men do strange things like taking their tie off at her. For all that I find him chokingly melodramatic at times, the man has a gift for outlining an emotional landscape in relatively few strokes, and I think Moffat could get that talent pointed in a direction I would really enjoy.
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I guess so - but presumably the showrunner then goes over the script and polishes it...
You're probably right; I'd just really like to see what RTD's writing looks like under Moffat, and character introductions are one thing that I really think he does well. Just look at Martha.
Oh definitely. Here's what Moffat himself had to say about Smith & Jones:
Re. RTD writing for Moffat, then he DID write an episode of Sarah Jane where Eleven guest starred. (Death of the Doctor - SJA S4.05) Interestingly it didn't make the RTD stans warm up to Eleventy, nor did the Eleven-fans grow to appreciate Rusty...
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(Nightmare in Silver, for what it's worth, also lost more than three scenes from its beginning and many other bits at the filming stage presumably for time reasons. But that's a different conversation.)
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"On the one hand I don’t have time to write Doctor Who," said Gaiman. "It doesn’t pay very well, but you also have to rewrite it and rewrite it and rewrite it and never get paid, whereas in America you get paid for every rewrite..."
So I don't think Moffat let anything through that wasn't up to muster, even if he didn't edit every word like Rusty did. And considering how Rusty nearly killed himself... That's probably a good thing. (I adore The Writers Tale, but good god, the man is crazy.)
And oh, editing and so forth can upend anything. /o\
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CoE is certainly the best written, yes. But it also destroyed it. And it wasn't Torchwood Torchwood, apart from in little glimpses here and there. *sigh*
I know it's not popular to say, but I kind of miss having both RTD & Moffat involved in DW. They helped curb each other's worst excesses, you know?
LOL! Seriously - read The Writers Tale. Moffat had very, very little influence on RTD. Except for making sure his scripts followed RTD's plans. (And vice versa once Moffat began writing S5.)
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