Because I'm incapable of shutting up my brain...

[elisi]

So, AOQ is up to 'I Was Made To Love You'. And he did not like it. Oh no. So I (we) actually re-watched it last night and it's a very, very good episode. Thoughts below the cut - but be warned, they're seriously jumbled up. Parts are from my response to AOQ, others are musings on DT.

Thoughts on IWMTLY
I found it pretty close to Excellent. A solid Good at any rate. Seriously. As I said before, the ideas it throws out are fascinating. I think it's a very logical follow-up to last weeks ep. (Crush). Because IWMTLY is all about love - what exactly is it? People are already discussing whether April was capable of real feelings, and how much emotion a robot can posses (why *did* her batteries last that long?)... remind you of anything? Superficially it's about Buffy coming to terms with single life (or rather not settling for just anything), but I think there's more to it than that. Buffy, Spike, Warren, Joyce and April are all searching for love. But love can't be manufactured - Warren made April 'to be perfect' and yet he grew bored with her and fell for Katrina instead. Because she surprised him. Buffy is looking for love, but realises that a relationship is not the same as love. Joyce seems the most sensible one - she's nervous of course, but she wants to find out who Brian is, see if they click, see what might be if they're both open to it.

(Also compare and contrast S5 Buffy with S2 Buffy in how she deals with Joyce's potential boyfriend. True he isn't a robot (at least as far as we know), but S2 Buffy was the epitome of sulky teen. I like the grown up version better.)

See there are incredibly strong parallels between Spike and April. Both were 'made to love someone' - to be the perfect partner. As we saw in FFL Dru chose William specifically as a companion because she was lonely. She wanted someone focussed only on her, because 'Daddy' was too wrapped up in Darla. But love isn't predictable, it's a very dangerous thing.

And what *is* love? Both April and Spike think that what they feel is love - does that make it so? (Think of it in the light of 'Blade Runner'.) Notice how Buffy tells Warren to 'break up properly' with April. To shut her down completely. Just like she did herself with Spike in 'Crush'. And yet, she sits with April as she slowly fades away - talking to her like she was real. (That whole conversation is brilliant - like Buffy talking with her own sub conscious. Maybe if she waits long enough *her* boyfriend will come back and say he's sorry...)

Warren... hmmm. I noticed that he used the word 'deserve'. He felt that he 'deserved' a relationship. Do we all deserve true love? And the way he told April that Buffy was the target... not nice. Understandable, but not nice. Generally he does a lot of walking away - doesn't want to deal with the consequences of his actions. Which sounds rather like Spike actually... [ETA: In this episode!]

~~~

See we already have a lot of the parallels that'll come into play in DT: Spike is Warren and Spike is April. But Buffy... Buffy isn't part of it yet. Although this scene says a lot:

TARA: But it's so weird. I mean, everyone wants a nice normal person to share with, but this guy, if he couldn't find that, I guess it's ... kinda sad.
Shot of Buffy staring at her hands.

I'm not going to go into all the stuff about reality, because I'd never get back out (and the baby woke up and is now sitting on my lap so I have to be swift), but I wanted to compare and contrast these two lines, because they show what Warren became - or rather what he made himself become:

IWMTLY:
WARREN: I mean, she's perfect. I don't know, I ... I guess it was too easy. And predictable. You know, she got boring. She was exactly what I wanted, and I didn't want her. I thought I was going crazy. Then something happened. Katrina was in my engineering seminar, and she was really funny and cool. You know, she was always givin' me a hard time, real ... unpredictable. She builds these little model monorails that run with magnets, and ... Anyway. I fell in love with Katrina.


DT:
WARREN: Look at her, man! The the shape of her lips. The smooth, silky skin. The way her nose- the way her nose crinkles when she laughs... (softly) She's perfect.

::shudders:: Damn that's disturbing...



You should also all go read this essay, it is *superb*: Mary Sue Goes Septic: Warren Meers.

Comments

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed "I Was Made To Love You," but it's never been one of my favorites, mostly because I hate the way Spike acts and is treated in this section of Season 5 (I should note that I only watched this section of the season once, so my memories may be kinda foggy.) I think the dislike of the episode may partly stem from the intensity of the following episode - it's a hard act to precede "The Body."

Plus, I hated "Crush." Spike just didn't grow morally here, and his attempts to win Buffy were so clumsy that I almost thought he didn't really love her. Thus, I winced when he lied to the gang about what happened. Pain all round.

Buffy Season 2 = Sulky Buffy? I liked Buffy Season 2! She had an emotional openness that she really lacks here. True, she also was a teenager, with issues, but I never thought she was that whiny or self-focused.

Was Spike really made to love Dru? I thought the factors driving her to sire William were more varied than mere desire for a companion - she wanted to display her power (sire any drooling idiot) and make a champion (the best and purest knight in all England). Plus, there's the crazy. Interesting thought, but I don't really see the parallel as strongly between Spike and April here, because of the complexity of the Spike/Dru relationship.

I liked April's death - strangely moving. And swings! Restless moment! Errr, overdoing the prophecy/foreshadowing thing here. Moving on.

Curious to know how Spike is trying to walk away from the consequences of his actions. I don't see that happening - rather, I see him not understanding that there are consequences - he doesn't expect the reactions he gets. The Bot is just one of his soulless ploys, not spurred on by rejections, I think. At this stage, he's still yearning for the embraces (or thinks he is. When he gets the bot he'll know it's more than that).

I love the parallel quotes - that's brilliant. Makes me wonder how many times the writers watch the episodes - and how much of the parallelism is deliberate.

I also think the comparison between Spike and Warren is a bit uneven - Spike is evil, but never misogynistic. A bit of the courtly spirit still informs him (and yes, I know some consider all that chivalry to be misogynistic, but I don't agree).

Completely agree with Jems about the soul and it's necessity - and after thinking about it, I think that's why Spike really has to stay away from Buffy in Angel Season 5 - he needs to be her moral equal independantly of her, not always relying on her.

I love "Dead Things" - and I sympathise with both Buffy and Spike here (and in "Seeing Red"). I think when Buffy came back, Spike still loved her (truly - as she admits in "Conversations with Dead People" and Tara confirms in "Dead Things"), but since his values are on evil first, he doesn't know how to show that love properly. As you say, Buffy isn't helping, either - rewarding him with sex when he's not trying to be a better man just isn't the path to redemption.

I'd rather debate about Aquinas than Plato. Or Augustine. Or Edwards. Plato is way overrated. But Beer! (Kidding - I'm still underage, and have never had beer).

I love the Warren essay - very succint and true. I've never liked Spike or Angel because they were bad (other than that they were good foes to defeat), but for their struggle towards redemption and commentary on the nature of evil. And Spike is pretty cool. Shut up, Andrew. Anyway, I've always thought that those who dismiss "good" characters as boring don't really see the hideous banality of evil. It's interesting at first, but sucks you into worse and worse things - as you see with Angelus. He's cool, powerful, irresistable - and he drives an innocent, tormented girl insane. That's not cool. His sadism and artistry make him horrifying, not attractive. The same with Spike - his bloodlust is not attractive, though his skill at combat is. I hope I'm not the type of Spike fan that others think is scary - I love Spike for his redemption, not his fall.

Anyway, great post, and discussion afterwards is well worth the reading.

[elisi]

I think the dislike of the episode may partly stem from the intensity of the following episode
Yes - it's sat between two heavy weights, which is not an enviable job!

Plus, I hated "Crush."
Oh no! But 'Crush' is *brilliant*! I adore it! I can see why you don't like Spike in it - and ditto for IWMTLY - because it makes me cringe too, but I think it was probably necessary. At the time, I believe the Redemptionistas were getting very vocal, and had decided that 'soulless redemption' was what the show was aiming for re. Spike, because he looooved Buffy! So I guess they tried to show just how clueless Spike was in some ways... before bringing on 'Intervention'! (I've actually got a half-finished essay on 'Crush' sat around in a folder somewhere, I might polish it off and post it if I can find the time!)

I don't really see the parallel as strongly between Spike and April here, because of the complexity of the Spike/Dru relationship.
Well it's all because I can't help but looking forward to 'Dead Things' - and the parallels and mirroring between Spike, Buffy, Warren and Katrina are just endlessly fascinating. Since April is the forerunner for Katrina in that ep, she therefore becomes connected with Spike... but it's rather a tenuous connection - you're absolutely right that Spike/Dru is far more complex! (And ditto the Spike/Warren parallels - I guess it can be seen as mild foreshadowing or something.) As I said to shapinglight Warren and Spike are on opposite paths - Warren will fall in love with darkness, Spike is in some way in love with light. But their journeys aren't straight or even fixed at this point - that's what makes it so fascinating.

I think that's why Spike really has to stay away from Buffy in Angel Season 5 - he needs to be her moral equal independently of her, not always relying on her.
Exactly! I wrote a little essay about it once, where I said something like 'Can you be a champion and love's bitch?' Because I don't think so... and when they meet again, he'll be his own man. ::)

but since his values are on evil first, he doesn't know how to show that love properly.
::nods:: I'm not even going to being to tackle that, but I guess you've read the_royal_anna's essay on S6 Buffy and Spike, which lays it all out beautifully!

Beer is highly overrated! I much prefer wine! (Also the law in the US is insane!)

I've always thought that those who dismiss "good" characters as boring don't really see the hideous banality of evil.
Yep! I think it was C. S. Lewis who said something along the lines of all the evil people through history being depressingly similar, whereas the saints were wondrously different. (Have you read Mere Christinanity?) Also Spike only became really interesting once he started fighting his own nature - because there is no bigger foe. (I remember once seeing a picture of a man holding the tail of a dragon and looking very proud. On the tail was written 'smoking' and 'drinking'. On the rest of the dragon were all sorts of more fundamental failings: Greed, Pride, Lust etc. I thought it was excellent!) Which might be why I like the later seasons the best - because the Scoobies have to fight themselves, rather than boring monsters. (My essay on metaphors in S6 is coming along *really* well, I think I might be onto something!)

But - thank you so much for your fascinating comment! :)

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Ahh, now my dislike of "Crush" makes some sense. I still wince at how wicked and unattractive Spike's behavior is here (and at his description of love in "Seeing Red"), but I completely agree that if redemptionism (the soulless variety) was being pushed, the writers needed to show Spike's basic affinity with evil. He needed to see that not being good was not okay. Thanks so much for explaining this - it really helps.

"When they meet again..." and they will. Oh yes, they will. :-)

Hmm, have to go look for the essay - I think I read it (I spent several days browsing anna's site) but don't really remember it.

Oh, I love Mere Christianity (and The Screwtape Letters - I wonder if any of the Buffy and Angel writers read that one - the picture of evil is so similar sometimes). I agree that Spike is most interesting when he falls in love with Buffy - he makes me wince in season four and early season five, but his struggles are so powerful in late five, six, and seven. Though I have to say, I love him in season two (both because he's so new and fresh, and because he's behaving very atypically for a vampire, being in love and allying with Buffy and all). And I love "Lover's Walk" - he's so insightful and funny.

Such fun! Keep up all the essays - the metaphors one sounds interesting!

[elisi]

Thanks so much for explaining this - it really helps.
My pleasure. I was even told that some people took Dawn' statement about the vs chip 'Same diff' as being true (what with children being truth speakers and all that...). I find that very odd!

Anna has two superb S/B essays:

My Spike and Buffy
S6 Buffy and Spike

I really wish I could have her brain. She btw was my introduction to fandom (I'd read various reviews and fanfic, but not come across fandom proper) and a very delightful guide she was too! :)

Nothing to add to what you said re. Spike (& C.S. Lewis) - I couldn't agree more! And I am unable to stop writing it seems, except now that it's weekend and the whole RL thing just takes over...