elisi | Aaaah, fandom...

Current Mood: amused

Aaaah, fandom...

Sometimes fandom throws out the wonderfullest lines. Such as this question:

You have experience decapitating with a xacto knife? ;-)

It being the latest in a growing discussion of AOQ's review of FFL.

There's also a guy (3D master) who's so anti-Spike that he's made himself a whole new theory about him, that fits with pretty much nothing of canon. *shakes head in amusement*

Also I just realised that I've yet to show off my new icon!

st_salieri found it hidden on her laptop. Isn't it brilliant? Salieri is very clever! :)

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I've just been reading the FFL thread, and couldn't believe some of the things that 3D Master was coming out with! Some people have some weird ideas... :)

Love the icon! :D

My mind was in danger of breaking from the contortions it had to go through. It's nice that they allow someone with mental problems to spend a little time online though! *g*

I've been looking for the icon for ages. I'm so pleased she found it. :) It's a shame I can't use it on the newgroup... although it of course hugely spoilerish.

Brilliant icon!

Great icon!

I just read the review, not the comments so tell em...Did anyone coment on:

They're not like you and I," comes from William.
(Poets don't bother with proper grammar.)

Because 3 years ago I started a whole grammar war on the Internet about that "like you and I"! The funny thing was that it wasn't a war between Americans and Brits since the war divided North America as well as British Isles!

Nobody agreed on that at the time. I even asked my colleagues who taught English and started a new kerfuffle between them at school with it!

I have been told by an English friend that the use of "me" was actually not proper grammar for a long time until recently. A scottish colleague who taught English seconded that, but another teacher said that the use of I was a mistake.

"I" was always the proper grammar when I was at school. The use of "me" was a definite no-no! I still find myself using "you and I" rather than "you and me" even now. *g* In the England of William's time I would have thought that "you and I" would definitely have been the proper way of saying it. :)

Of course, I could be wrong...

Thanks!

That's exactly what my English friend told me. Being French I only instinctively knew that William didn't make a grammar mistake (I thought that the verb was implied and also I must have read "you and I" in English plays I guess when I was a student in my 20's)but some English people told me I was wrong and he should have said "you and me" and I had a Canadian friend (from Vancouver) who was horrified by William's faux-pas.

That icon's marvellous - nearly as marvellous as your journal header, which I've just seen when clicking on to post this comment. How long have you had that? It rules!

Did you think Spike told Buffy everything we saw onscreen? I assumed not. I'd love to see a fic with the dialogue she heard.

I mean to say "onscreen during Fool For Love."

"I" is one of the few words in the English language retaining a few of its old case endings, and most kids today aren't taught what a case is. Because "You" is correct for both the singular and plural second person pronoun, many people get confused. "You and I" is hammered into their heads as the correct nominative case that they hyper-correct and use it for the objective case as well.

But there's an easy way to determine the correct case for compound subjects and compound objects: break "They're not like you and I," up into "They're not like you," and "They're not like I." The latter is clearly wrong; it should be "They're not like me." On the other hand, if the sentence were "You and __ should go to the park," then "I" would be correct, because "You and I" is the subject of the sentence.

(For further headaches, note that I'm using the correct but almost-completely-abandoned past subjunctive mood of "to be" in the sentence above--nine out of ten speakers of American English will probably tell you that it should be "if the sentence was 'You and I.'")

But that's the problem and it was the knot of the war in question. According to several Brits "I" was the proper use even if it were not a subject! My friend told me it was a bit pedantic a use, but definitely proper grammar.

An American friend who studied grammar in college backed it! Too bad I didn't save the numerous emails that were exchanged then.

But others thought that it should have been "like you and me" because it was an objective case (and also because of the use of "like" instead of "as").

And there I was, I who isn't an English speaker! *g*

Thank you! I was going to attempt to say the same thing, but with more words and probably making less sense! *g*

I only put up the banner yesterday, so you're not out of touch at all! And I've meant to use that banner for ages and ages, just never got round to it. It's made by

killmebecomeme if you're curious. (And the icon's sharable, btw)

And are you back? Because I'm bouncing to see you. :)

Re. you FFL question (and I knew what you meant, even before I saw the extra comment) then no, I think Buffy got a very edited version of Spike's early life. (And yes a fic would be awesome!)

I asked my husband, and he came down (heavily) on the 'you and me' side ("If you use 'I' you're a moron - you wouldn't say 'They're beneath I'!")

English is a haaaard language sometimes!

Thanks! :) Feel free to snag. (And yours is superb too! I need to re-watch 'Destiny' like *now*!)

LOL

Sorry, I didnt' mean to start that thing again on your LJ and spread the grammar war in your family!

I bet that my friend would have told him that "They are beneath I" might actually be oldfashioned and affected, but actually correct!

Somehow I liked her side because being affected and using such a language fit a poet who wrote a word like "effulgent"!

I just read 3D Master's comments. Wow, what show was he watching??

No worries - Daarcy is a grammar fiend anyway. He has a BA in English and it hurts him when people misuse the language.

'You and I' does sound affected, so maybe that's the explanation...

I don't know. Oh! Maybe he's the same guy

frelling_tralk was talking to the other day. (See this post.)

Some people... *shakes head*

I have never understood that. Suddenly light beams through the clouds.

I'm kindasorta back. I would far rather be here than in real life, put it that way .

And yes a fic would be awesome!
You could write it! *gives you an appealing look*

Oh, now i'm muddled again :)

Is the sentence really: "They are not like you and I are" / "They are not like you are and I am"?

Hee! I'm catching up now and whoa! There were like 30 posts when I left for work this morning, now it's at 137. I've got a lot of reading to do. Also, I just read AOQ's response to Burt1 and squee! he agrees with me. :giggle:

Why do I get such a kick out of this stuff? LOL

Also, I think AOQ is quickly realizing that a review focusing on Spike soon equals a thread a mile long.

Oh dear lord. The insane 3D_Master is replying to my post. Well, isn't that special. Sigh... always gotta have a crazy one joining in the fray. This should be fun.

There may be a difference between British and American usage there (and in the U.S., it may eventually become accepted usage just because so many people say it that way now.) But I'm pretty sure if you look in the grammar books, they still say that 'me' is always the correct usage for an object!

That is exactly correct. People who were taught that saying "You and me are great friends" was wrong, adn "You and I are great friends" is correct, without understanding why the first one was wrong, over-correct to saying "They are not like you and I" in order to sound more refined. (I seriously doubt that William would really have made such an error.) It gets even more confusing because "He is not as brave as you and I," is correct. (I've totally forgotten the rule for that one, though. Where's

mistraltoes when you need her?)

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