elisi | And just because I didn't spam you enough yesterday...

Had a lovely evening last night. There was *nothing* on TV (and we got bored of saying rude things about the male figure skaters' cosumes), so Darcy decided that watching a bit of early Buffy (i.e. funny, not depressing) would be a good idea. :) So we watched 'Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered' (which I'd completely forgotten was a Valentine's episode!) and 'Passion'. Much fun and much angst and OMG-Angelus-is-such-a-bastard!!! And they were all so young and innocent and just generally lots of 'aaaaaw!' Oh and anyone who thinks that Xander was this really swell guy who was ruined in the later seasons is *delusional*!
From 'Passion':
Cordelia: So Giles is gonna try to kill Angel then?
Xander: Well, it's about time somebody did.
Willow: Xander!
Xander: I'm sorry, but let's not forget that I hated Angel long before
you guys jumped on the bandwagon. So I think I deserve a little
something for not saying 'I told you so' long before now. And if Giles
wants to go after the, uh, (looks up at Buffy) fiend that murdered his
girlfriend, I say, 'Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!'
Oh and he wants to to the lovespell out of pure vengeance - me thinks he and Anya were destined to be! *g* But seriously, he has a very nasty streak when things don't go his way. I think he was right to worry about turning into his father.

Also I found it very interesting that everyone keeps calling Angelus 'Angel' - even Dru does it. The only one who goes with 'Angelus' is Spike. (Oh and seeing Dru wheeling Spike away from danger in the factory fight scene was for some reason incredibly funny.)

What else? The Baby is now 4 1/2 months old and very chubby and cute and she can *almost* roll over.

Before I run, just a couple more things...

If you're after a slightly different Valentine's fic, try Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show (Buffy & Connor). And it's wonderfully short! Part of

inlovewithnight's Valentine's Fluffyton.

Joss speaks again. And cracks me up. What is it about that guy and puppies?

ETA: I completely forgot this! 'Arbitrar of Quality' (who is watching BtVS for the first time, unspoilt), just reviewed 'Ted' and thought it the best ep. of the series so far! You can find the review here if you're interested, but rememeber not to spoil him!

ETA 2: Sorry I'm so bad at commenting on all your lovely posts. But time isn't my friend!

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I think it's very telling that it isn't until he gets his own show that the Angel/Angelus distinction is made. And if I'm not mistaken (I may very well be in this instance, I haven't seen season 2 in ages), Spike calls Angel "Angelus" before the loss of the soul.

Spike calls Angel "Angelus" before the loss of the soul
Firts thing he says to him in 'School Hard' if memory serves. Oh and he also calls him Angelus in the 'Why We Fight' flashbacks. 'Tis all a muddle!

But seriously, he has a very nasty streak when things don't go his way. I think he was right to worry about turning into his father.

Yes, absolutely. Rewatching has made that very clear. I've just rewatched Dead Man's Party where he was so nasty I'm actually finding it really hard to write about. Xander had swell moments, but also a very dark streak and it's easy to forget that that was there right from the beginning.

The youth and the innocence is heart-breaking isn't it.

seeing Dru wheeling Spike away from danger in the factory fight scene was for some reason incredibly funny.) Not to mention Spike's reference to not getting into the fight unless you've been tagged. Clearly someone has been watching tv wresting together.

Oh and seeing Dru wheeling Spike away from danger in the factory fight scene was for some reason incredibly funny

Oh yes!!!!! This cracks me up every time I see the episode, glad I'm not the only one! In my arms sister!

"Passion" is one of the best episodes of season 2, it's such a tragedy. I love, love the scene when Giles finds Jenny's body. Puccini plus the blank look on his face when they are taking the corpse away...it's splendid.

I don't think that Dru ever called Angel, Angelus, it's either Angel or Daddy for her. I think she knew better than anyone that he's the same person, but that when all soul having he couldn't be her daddy. She's far from being an idiot. After all in season 2, Dru took revenge for what Angelus did to her and her family, on Angel, torturing him physically and morally...

Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show

Arr! Thanks for the earworm.

Oh and anyone who thinks that Xander was this really swell guy who was ruined in the later seasons is *delusional*!

SO TRUE!! ;)

Oh and anyone who thinks that Xander was this really swell guy who was ruined in the later seasons is *delusional*!

Phew, nice to know I'm not delusional then. He always had a nasty streak in him as far as I'm concerned.

I've not read the fic you recommended, but now have Neil Diamond in my head singing the song. *g*

You know, of all the scoobies, I always felt Xander was the most real. He was petty and insecure and jealous and behaved just a like a teen-aged boy whose home life is crap and who has discovered that the mosters under the bed are real. His innocence was lost with Jesse and he was never really able to move beyond that. I think his journey is very interesting but no, he is not a nice guy.

Xander had many moments in which he exemplified being a friend. Heck, fighting vampires when he didn't have to says a lot for the guy. However, I agree, that going back to season 2 there were moments he could be an asshole. I'm a little bit forgiving of his hatred of Angel and Spike given that he lost a good friend (Jesse) to vampires and saw Buffy and the rest hurt by both on numerous ocassions. It's when he turns his self-righteouness and anger on Buffy is when I loathe seeing him.

Xander could be a major prick, but I always thought he and Cordelia were meant for each other. I never felt the same chemistry between him and Anya. I think Jane Espenson mentioned in a commentary that she always wished Xander could have guested on Angel so he could have a reunion with Cordelia.

Firts thing he says to him in 'School Hard' if memory serves

Yes, and if my memory serves, he pronounces it icorrectly!

(When I heard James speak at a conference once, he said "OMG my accent was so bad in that episode! Why didn't they fire me?" Hee.)

Early Spike does speak rather... theatrically! *g*

it's easy to forget that that was there right from the beginning.
That's it. Although I've always liked the fact that the writers dared make their characters so real and three-dimensional.

The youth and the innocence is heart-breaking isn't it.
Oh yes. Especially contrasted with Giles' much greater experience.

Spike's reference to not getting into the fight unless you've been tagged.
How could I have forgotten that! It's priceless! :)

glad I'm not the only one!
Oh no, not at all! :)

Puccini plus the blank look on his face when they are taking the corpse away...it's splendid.
Gives me chills just to think about it. ::happy sigh::

I think she knew better than anyone that he's the same person, but that when all soul having he couldn't be her daddy.
Very well put! Oh - although in 'Crush' she refers to him as Angelus, when he was actually Angel still... see, Spike is so much easier. ;)

Sorry. It's a good little fic though. :)

Heee! I like Xander though, especially because he is such a three-dimensional character. :)

But seriously, he has a very nasty streak when things don't go his way. I think he was right to worry about turning into his father.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking about Season 6 Xander is that, as you point out, the seeds were there from the beginning. I just wish they hadn't bloomed into quite such a large weed. One thing I think is really interesting about his attitude toward Angelus is the way his hatred of vampires in general intersects with his sexual jealousy and the possessive aspect of his friendship with Buffy. That's something that's also an issue later on in the show.

He always had a nasty streak in him as far as I'm concerned.
Which isn't surprising considering his upbringing. And the fact that his first experience with vamipres was his friend Jesse getting killed, his antagonism is very straightforward.

I always felt Xander was the most real.
Yes, yes, yes!

Actually a lot of yes's to everything you said. And I love the show for not taking fluffy short-cuts. (The children watched 'Cinderella' yesterday and she is such a saint that I wanted to hit her over the head! *sigh*)

scarlettgirl said, he always felt very real. He was both heroic and petty, but I'm glad that his best side won in the end. :)

A reunion would have been very sweet. But then I do love Anya/Xander and Cordelia/Angel, so I'm happy either way. :)

I think a lot of his vampire-hatred comes from Jesse's death. So really, it's all Darla's fault!

I have a theory about S6 that I'm one day going to write down (although it's not saying anything new really), but I love S7 for trying to patch things up again and for Xander in particular coming to terms with a lot of issues.

And just because I didn't spam you enough yesterday...

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