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Closing Time.
You know what’s marvellous about this episode from a meta point-of-view? The mirrors finally [begin to] become clearly defined, and I can write a post with lots of subheadings and different topics, rather than something that’s a big tangled ball with no beginning or end.
Please no spoilers beyond this episode (and the trailer)!!!
General Thoughts
People are, not surprisingly, comparing this to The Lodger. Now I loved The Lodger, and it was my squishy. But The Lodger can’t hold a candle to this. Humorous observations on how alien the Doctor is in human society, a companion trapped in the TARDIS, and a will-they-won’t-they romance is fabulous. But compared to bromance, fatherly love saving the day, and the Doctor’s quiet musings on the eve before his death? No comparison, sorry. And before you start arguing - this episode HAD A BABY. All your arguments are invalid. :)
Anyway, there were lots of marvellous touches, Stormageddon not the least. And the fact that Auntie Mabel was in it... (She has a dog called Pippin and a spotty plane. The Doctor would ADORE her.) The shushing. The literal stepping through the looking glass. The stars on the ceiling. The Doctor working in a toyshop. Not to mention that Craig saved the world with LOVE... (Gareth Roberts, the writer, makes NO EXCUSES for this. I like him a lot.) Anyway, the whole thing gave me flashbacks to ‘Doctor Who and the Daemons’, wherein Jo saved the world with LOVE (and the Daemon exploded because of it), and it was ALL VERY LOVELY AND DAFT. Love my show.
Also, Craig is the most wonderful counterpoint to all the harsh accusations that the Doctor has taken onboard this season. Craig is under no illusions as to how dangerous the Doctor is, but he also sees clearly that the Doctor is a good person, that his heroism saves the world a lot, and that he’s worth it.
Which reminds me that, for some reason (did anyone else think this?) Eleven, when saying “I’m old and selfish and I always have been” reminded me hugely of One. Or maybe it’s just that he really always has been selfish (because One certainly was). Anyway, having Craig around was delightful, and just what was needed - esp as he was someone who had gained from the Doctor’s influence.
And what does the Doctor do in the end? Spend his last few hours before going off to die tidying Craig’s house. Nicest man in the universe! QED
The Girl Who’s Tired of Waiting
This is one of the cleverest things I’ve come across:
It says an awful lot in a single image, and the sheer elegance of it pleases me immensely.
Not only is it saying that Amy has ‘moved on’ from the Doctor, but she’s actually done something with her life. (Are people happy yet?) Because given the name and the tag line of the perfume, it’s very clearly her own product. Now who could have foreseen that? No longer Amy Pond, kissogram, but Amy Pond, business woman. Very nice. As for Rory, then![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
owlsie found this on Tumblr and I nearly broke something:
Anyway, it’s obviously not Amy in the spacesuit on the beach (well, never say never, but... River is a walking, talking Chekov's gun). Yes, Amy was mirrored very heavily with the Doctor, but it was to show us the fact that she shouldn’t go down that route. (Darn mirrors, I got all turned around.) Her role is a different one... Which brings me to the next part.
Melody Pond is a superhero.
It occurred to me the other day that Melody has three mothers. Amy of course, her actual mother, but I’ll get to her in a moment.
- The first one to bring Melody up is Kovarian, and Mels is very much her creation. Wild, dangerous, deadly. ‘I’m the woman who kills the Doctor’ is her refrain, and there isn’t much else to her. She’s a weapon, designed to kill. We see it in the astronaut suit - even the cradle she is put in looks like that suit.
- Which brings us to the TARDIS, who shows Mels a different way and helps her to see that there is much more to life. She has layers and skills she didn’t know. And I think it’s very much the TARDIS’s child which goes to Luna University to study (mirrored by the old, old crib the Doctor brought out). It’s a remote place, and River looks almost ascetic in her robes - quiet, studious, careful. She becomes a scholar, without a hint of the wildness that once reigned supreme.
But then Kovarian returns...
My thinking is that in the finale River will learn to ‘marry’ these two sides of her personality, which will create the woman we know she becomes. (I once wrote meta on S6 of Buffy, and how Spike and Dawn could be seen as different sides of Buffy’s personality which she needed to merge. The same very much applies to River, except it’s all contained in one person.) Anyway - crucial to this (I predict) will be Amy (and Rory). River has been moulded by others, but not by her actual parents, and becoming their daughter, properly, will be what helps her become whole.
It is possible that this will mean literally re-writing her story and letting Amy and Rory have their baby back, but I suspect not. Here, let me look at the season so far.
We’re all stories in the end
I think there are three story strands. Or rather, one main story but within that two strands:
The overarching story is the one about the Doctor and the Ponds.
This story is then split up into the parts about Melody/River (all the Moffat episodes), and the standalones, all of which centre around children and their parents and acceptance in their resolution.
[Sidebar: Apart from The Doctor’s Wife, which is the season In a Mirror, Darkly. We still have the family theme, but twisted (House is like an evil TARDIS, and smaller on the inside, as well as being a dark mirror of the Doctor), and we have the patchwork family of Auntie, Uncle, Nephew and Idris, all of them dependent on House and unable to escape him, Idris sacrificed without a second thought.]
ANYWAY, would you look at those standalones. The only ones without actual children are The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex, both of which deal with Amy waiting for the Doctor and moving beyond that, as well as confirming her love for Rory. Otherwise, it’s wall-to-wall parent/child bonding, with either the father feeling inadequate, or the child being different and needing acceptance. Do you think maybe that the show has a theme going on here, and that somehow this will apply to the larger story of the Ponds and their daughter? I think so. Oh yes I do.
Look at you! You’re young.
So, here’s where I go all out in my comparisons between End of Time and Closing Time. I am going to be VERY GOOD and look at everything from a very objective point of view, but I have to mock, just a little, so a small comparison before we start, since (apart from all the other parallels I am going to pull out) we have the Doctor doing a farewell-tour before he dies:
Bless you Ten. Guess everyone has an emo phase, even a Timelord. (OK, shutting up now and getting to the meta. He was so young... *pets him*)
Now my first point is that when under pressure, the Doctor will throw his life away for a good cause without blinking. Look at Nine saving Rose's life, or Ten in the Library, or Eleven in TBB...
He sees the solution, and the fact that it's his life in the balance is less important than 'This will work!' Also, in Parting of the Ways, and in the Library, and in TBB, he's in a good place - he's travelling with the perfect companion(s), that he loves dearly, and his sacrifice is partly (or wholly) to save them.
And - as Promethia reminded me - the Doctor is always happiest when he has something to fight for rather than against... Dying for Rose (or Donna, or Amelia) he’ll do with a smile on his face.
But the situation in the Specials, and now in S6, is very different. He has been running from death for a long time. He knows it is coming, knows that he in some measure deserves it (breaking The Laws of Time/losing Melody etc), and he's travelled on his own for a long time - yet there are huge, vast differences.
Firstly (just to get it out there) the glimpsed Ginger Companion(s). Ten sees Donna, Eleven sees Amy and Rory, both of them overcome with longing. But where Donna is ‘making do’, unaware of what she’s lost, Amy and Rory are rebuilding their life, no longer looking back. The Doctor is wistful, but knows that he tried his best to do right by them, and they are no longer pining.
We have a Companion who is not really a companion, since he doesn’t go travelling with the Doctor - he's just an old friend who runs about the place with the Doctor and helps him investigate, and whom the Doctor can unburden himself onto.
There is also the ‘goodbye tour’, which I’ve already touched on. Ten is of course dying already, and doesn’t have much time, but his pain is palpable. Former companions stop and just watch him walk away in the distance, deeply affected by his pain. Eleven - although his predicament is much worse - is focussed out, unable to stop himself from noticing things. “I’m done with saving them,” he tells himself, but is utterly unable to stop. (Again: Ten needed people, Eleven needs to help people.)
Now before I go any further I’m going to juxtapose two images/speeches/scenes, which beautifully sum up these two characters and how they deal:
Now a lot of this is due to personality, not to mention age. Ten was never going to go gently into that good night. Ten was Ten - beautiful and brilliant and exquisitely damaged. Despite all his years, he was young by nature - Rose imprinted on him, and that bright, youthful joy was his birth right, and he felt the loss keenly. When Ten reached for age it was always in the context of loss and pain, and when he reached for power it led to The Timelord Victorious.
He went to his death having held the Laws of Time in his hands, able to do anything, and - despite there never being the slightest doubt that he’d sacrifice himself to save the universe/Wilf - he resented the hell out of it. Which of course means that he really needed to die, because he was a clear and present danger who thought (or liked to think) himself above the laws of the universe. Given the relentless misery and loss that had been thrown at him over the preceding years, this was not surprising.
Now Eleven... Eleven was always effortlessly old. Eternally young of spirit, but just old. And where Ten got an old man to rant at, someone with whom he didn’t need to hold back, Eleven got a baby to talk to... And we see that he's turned into Wilf. He’s old, he’s had his time. He looks at Alfie and sees that the world is full of young people, just beginning. And that is good. Life continues, life will always continue, even when he's no longer there, and he (metaphorically) hands over to little Alfie. Death is a part of life, and that is emphasised here beautifully. The Doctor’s acceptance, his acknowledgment that he’s had a good life, that he’s lived his dream and more besides, is very important.
Also important is the snippet from the trailer, where the Doctor asks why he has to die. Because unlike Ten he isn’t sacrificing himself for someone, and whilst he certainly has enough blood on his hands, who has decided to appoint themselves his judge, jury and executioner, and why? Vigilantes are not a good thing, and I don’t think the Doctor is very keen to be a pawn in someone else’s game.
He is at peace with dying, but the why, I think, is going to be pivotal. Because he's the Doctor, and he's here to help.
Please no spoilers beyond this episode (and the trailer)!!!
People are, not surprisingly, comparing this to The Lodger. Now I loved The Lodger, and it was my squishy. But The Lodger can’t hold a candle to this. Humorous observations on how alien the Doctor is in human society, a companion trapped in the TARDIS, and a will-they-won’t-they romance is fabulous. But compared to bromance, fatherly love saving the day, and the Doctor’s quiet musings on the eve before his death? No comparison, sorry. And before you start arguing - this episode HAD A BABY. All your arguments are invalid. :)
Anyway, there were lots of marvellous touches, Stormageddon not the least. And the fact that Auntie Mabel was in it... (She has a dog called Pippin and a spotty plane. The Doctor would ADORE her.) The shushing. The literal stepping through the looking glass. The stars on the ceiling. The Doctor working in a toyshop. Not to mention that Craig saved the world with LOVE... (Gareth Roberts, the writer, makes NO EXCUSES for this. I like him a lot.) Anyway, the whole thing gave me flashbacks to ‘Doctor Who and the Daemons’, wherein Jo saved the world with LOVE (and the Daemon exploded because of it), and it was ALL VERY LOVELY AND DAFT. Love my show.
Also, Craig is the most wonderful counterpoint to all the harsh accusations that the Doctor has taken onboard this season. Craig is under no illusions as to how dangerous the Doctor is, but he also sees clearly that the Doctor is a good person, that his heroism saves the world a lot, and that he’s worth it.
Which reminds me that, for some reason (did anyone else think this?) Eleven, when saying “I’m old and selfish and I always have been” reminded me hugely of One. Or maybe it’s just that he really always has been selfish (because One certainly was). Anyway, having Craig around was delightful, and just what was needed - esp as he was someone who had gained from the Doctor’s influence.
And what does the Doctor do in the end? Spend his last few hours before going off to die tidying Craig’s house. Nicest man in the universe! QED
This is one of the cleverest things I’ve come across:
It says an awful lot in a single image, and the sheer elegance of it pleases me immensely.
Not only is it saying that Amy has ‘moved on’ from the Doctor, but she’s actually done something with her life. (Are people happy yet?) Because given the name and the tag line of the perfume, it’s very clearly her own product. Now who could have foreseen that? No longer Amy Pond, kissogram, but Amy Pond, business woman. Very nice. As for Rory, then
owlsie found this on Tumblr and I nearly broke something:Anyway, it’s obviously not Amy in the spacesuit on the beach (well, never say never, but... River is a walking, talking Chekov's gun). Yes, Amy was mirrored very heavily with the Doctor, but it was to show us the fact that she shouldn’t go down that route. (Darn mirrors, I got all turned around.) Her role is a different one... Which brings me to the next part.
It occurred to me the other day that Melody has three mothers. Amy of course, her actual mother, but I’ll get to her in a moment.
- The first one to bring Melody up is Kovarian, and Mels is very much her creation. Wild, dangerous, deadly. ‘I’m the woman who kills the Doctor’ is her refrain, and there isn’t much else to her. She’s a weapon, designed to kill. We see it in the astronaut suit - even the cradle she is put in looks like that suit.
- Which brings us to the TARDIS, who shows Mels a different way and helps her to see that there is much more to life. She has layers and skills she didn’t know. And I think it’s very much the TARDIS’s child which goes to Luna University to study (mirrored by the old, old crib the Doctor brought out). It’s a remote place, and River looks almost ascetic in her robes - quiet, studious, careful. She becomes a scholar, without a hint of the wildness that once reigned supreme.
But then Kovarian returns...
My thinking is that in the finale River will learn to ‘marry’ these two sides of her personality, which will create the woman we know she becomes. (I once wrote meta on S6 of Buffy, and how Spike and Dawn could be seen as different sides of Buffy’s personality which she needed to merge. The same very much applies to River, except it’s all contained in one person.) Anyway - crucial to this (I predict) will be Amy (and Rory). River has been moulded by others, but not by her actual parents, and becoming their daughter, properly, will be what helps her become whole.
It is possible that this will mean literally re-writing her story and letting Amy and Rory have their baby back, but I suspect not. Here, let me look at the season so far.
I think there are three story strands. Or rather, one main story but within that two strands:
The overarching story is the one about the Doctor and the Ponds.
This story is then split up into the parts about Melody/River (all the Moffat episodes), and the standalones, all of which centre around children and their parents and acceptance in their resolution.
[Sidebar: Apart from The Doctor’s Wife, which is the season In a Mirror, Darkly. We still have the family theme, but twisted (House is like an evil TARDIS, and smaller on the inside, as well as being a dark mirror of the Doctor), and we have the patchwork family of Auntie, Uncle, Nephew and Idris, all of them dependent on House and unable to escape him, Idris sacrificed without a second thought.]
ANYWAY, would you look at those standalones. The only ones without actual children are The Girl Who Waited and The God Complex, both of which deal with Amy waiting for the Doctor and moving beyond that, as well as confirming her love for Rory. Otherwise, it’s wall-to-wall parent/child bonding, with either the father feeling inadequate, or the child being different and needing acceptance. Do you think maybe that the show has a theme going on here, and that somehow this will apply to the larger story of the Ponds and their daughter? I think so. Oh yes I do.
So, here’s where I go all out in my comparisons between End of Time and Closing Time. I am going to be VERY GOOD and look at everything from a very objective point of view, but I have to mock, just a little, so a small comparison before we start, since (apart from all the other parallels I am going to pull out) we have the Doctor doing a farewell-tour before he dies:
Bless you Ten. Guess everyone has an emo phase, even a Timelord. (OK, shutting up now and getting to the meta. He was so young... *pets him*)
Now my first point is that when under pressure, the Doctor will throw his life away for a good cause without blinking. Look at Nine saving Rose's life, or Ten in the Library, or Eleven in TBB...
He sees the solution, and the fact that it's his life in the balance is less important than 'This will work!' Also, in Parting of the Ways, and in the Library, and in TBB, he's in a good place - he's travelling with the perfect companion(s), that he loves dearly, and his sacrifice is partly (or wholly) to save them.
And - as Promethia reminded me - the Doctor is always happiest when he has something to fight for rather than against... Dying for Rose (or Donna, or Amelia) he’ll do with a smile on his face.
But the situation in the Specials, and now in S6, is very different. He has been running from death for a long time. He knows it is coming, knows that he in some measure deserves it (breaking The Laws of Time/losing Melody etc), and he's travelled on his own for a long time - yet there are huge, vast differences.
Firstly (just to get it out there) the glimpsed Ginger Companion(s). Ten sees Donna, Eleven sees Amy and Rory, both of them overcome with longing. But where Donna is ‘making do’, unaware of what she’s lost, Amy and Rory are rebuilding their life, no longer looking back. The Doctor is wistful, but knows that he tried his best to do right by them, and they are no longer pining.
We have a Companion who is not really a companion, since he doesn’t go travelling with the Doctor - he's just an old friend who runs about the place with the Doctor and helps him investigate, and whom the Doctor can unburden himself onto.
There is also the ‘goodbye tour’, which I’ve already touched on. Ten is of course dying already, and doesn’t have much time, but his pain is palpable. Former companions stop and just watch him walk away in the distance, deeply affected by his pain. Eleven - although his predicament is much worse - is focussed out, unable to stop himself from noticing things. “I’m done with saving them,” he tells himself, but is utterly unable to stop. (Again: Ten needed people, Eleven needs to help people.)
Now before I go any further I’m going to juxtapose two images/speeches/scenes, which beautifully sum up these two characters and how they deal:
Now a lot of this is due to personality, not to mention age. Ten was never going to go gently into that good night. Ten was Ten - beautiful and brilliant and exquisitely damaged. Despite all his years, he was young by nature - Rose imprinted on him, and that bright, youthful joy was his birth right, and he felt the loss keenly. When Ten reached for age it was always in the context of loss and pain, and when he reached for power it led to The Timelord Victorious.
He went to his death having held the Laws of Time in his hands, able to do anything, and - despite there never being the slightest doubt that he’d sacrifice himself to save the universe/Wilf - he resented the hell out of it. Which of course means that he really needed to die, because he was a clear and present danger who thought (or liked to think) himself above the laws of the universe. Given the relentless misery and loss that had been thrown at him over the preceding years, this was not surprising.
Now Eleven... Eleven was always effortlessly old. Eternally young of spirit, but just old. And where Ten got an old man to rant at, someone with whom he didn’t need to hold back, Eleven got a baby to talk to... And we see that he's turned into Wilf. He’s old, he’s had his time. He looks at Alfie and sees that the world is full of young people, just beginning. And that is good. Life continues, life will always continue, even when he's no longer there, and he (metaphorically) hands over to little Alfie. Death is a part of life, and that is emphasised here beautifully. The Doctor’s acceptance, his acknowledgment that he’s had a good life, that he’s lived his dream and more besides, is very important.
Also important is the snippet from the trailer, where the Doctor asks why he has to die. Because unlike Ten he isn’t sacrificing himself for someone, and whilst he certainly has enough blood on his hands, who has decided to appoint themselves his judge, jury and executioner, and why? Vigilantes are not a good thing, and I don’t think the Doctor is very keen to be a pawn in someone else’s game.
He is at peace with dying, but the why, I think, is going to be pivotal. Because he's the Doctor, and he's here to help.
no subject
Your analyses always make me go 'huh', and 'interesting!' and 'I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but now that you mention it...', and they essentially add oceans of depth to my enjoyment of the show.
Re: the finale, I think Rory will play a pivotal role as nurse to the Doctor/Doctor River Song and father to Melody. And I think it's going to cost him something huge.
no subject
Your analyses always make me go 'huh', and 'interesting!' and 'I hadn't thought of it quite that way, but now that you mention it...', and they essentially add oceans of depth to my enjoyment of the show.
*beams* Thank you! I sort of can't not write, so it's lovely to know that other enjoy it! :)
Re: the finale, I think Rory will play a pivotal role as nurse to the Doctor/Doctor River Song and father to Melody. And I think it's going to cost him something huge.
Hmmmm. Well SOMETHING is up. My money is more on Amy at the moment, but since everything is connected, Rory could well be pivotal. *counts down nervously*
no subject
(I pointed out the mirror/door to you in my episode reaction! Without your previous meta, I would have probably paid it no mind.)
As one who got so very tired of Emo!Ten, I appreciated you comparison/contrast of Ten and Eleven. (Eleven really is my favorite of all the "new" doctors...) And I agree, if Eleven is at peace with dying, he wants answers before he goes.
(And now I really want you to read my Alfie story!)
no subject
*g* I'll take that as a good thing. :)
(I pointed out the mirror/door to you in my episode reaction! Without your previous meta, I would have probably paid it no mind.)
So many mirrors... /o\
As one who got so very tired of Emo!Ten, I appreciated you comparison/contrast of Ten and Eleven.
You've see
(Eleven really is my favorite of all the "new" doctors...)
Well I only know the 'new' ones, but he's definitely my favourite too. It's funny, because I loved Ten very much, but once Eleven came along I suddenly went 'Hang on, so this is what's been missing...'
And I agree, if Eleven is at peace with dying, he wants answers before he goes.
He doesn't want to die pointlessly.
(And now I really want you to read my Alfie story!)
Thanks for reminding me. Life... is busy.
no subject
Also I think it's obvious that Ten suffered from that god complex that the "Closing Time" Eleven has overcome, first with his actions at the end of "God Complex" and afterwards during those long years of loneliness before his farewell tour. The baby embodied what Eleven has faith in, humanity, while Ten still saw himself as a god the others had faith in. It's significant that he worked in a toys store, serving humanity, waiting for human customers.
The baby and Amy are the new gods.
no subject
Someone called Craig Eleven's Wilf, but it's Alfie who's more pivotal in that particular respect. :)
Also I think it's obvious that Ten suffered from that god complex that the "Closing Time" Eleven has overcome, first with his actions at the end of "God Complex" and afterwards during those long years of loneliness before his farewell tour.
*nods a lot* And I love that it's been so systematically dismantled. Presuming that he finds a way to Not Die, he will be a very different man to the one at the end of RTD's run. Someone with a lot more humility.
The baby embodied what Eleven has faith in, humanity, while Ten still saw himself as a god the others had faith in. It's significant that he worked in a toys store, serving humanity, waiting for human customers.
LOVE the 'Here to help'. Love it to teeny tiny pieces! <3
The baby and Amy are the new gods.
All hail the Mighty Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All!
no subject
i loved reading your analysis, but i did think eleven was pretty emo at the end, even if he wasn't full on emo at the beginning ...
no subject
Petrichor = the smell of dust after rain. It was one of the passwords Amy and Rory needed to get into the old console room in The Doctor's Wife. :)
i loved reading your analysis, but i did think eleven was pretty emo at the end, even if he wasn't full on emo at the beginning ...
Well he's just about to die, so I'm not going to quibble. And the thing is that the show undercuts it *beautifully* by the little girl going 'I liked his hat'. It's the lack of indulgence that's the key difference. Oh and thank you. :)
no subject
joy joy joy
Amy is *still* a mirror to the Doctor. Invoking the password that got them into Ten's console room. Becoming famous. Good with kids. Having a companion following her around. She's been converted.
Conversion. (Ten wore Converse shoes for running.) "With the Word." Perfect that we get Cybermen this time. Silver men, *mirror men*, "you will be like us." This is how the Doctor fights monsters, becoming like them. Notice the eyeglass loop he wears while wiping the memory of the cybermat so he can reprogram it. Shushing everyone, an invocation of silence.
The impact he has on Craig. Fighting the cybermat on their backs, using kitchen implements to beat it into submission. Their gestures in the elevator while discussing the "star trek teleport" thingie. They take turns sitting and pacing in the kitchen; Eleven sprinkles pepper on Craig as if he's "cooking".
And the ultimate conversion: The Doctor learning to fight for love, rather than fighting against monsters, is ultimately what Craig learns, too.
no subject
*twirls you*
Amy is *still* a mirror to the Doctor. Invoking the password that got them into Ten's console room. Becoming famous. Good with kids. Having a companion following her around. She's been converted.
Oh very good. But it's a different kind of mirror? (This is what I mean about the mirrors being clearer.) River is a literal mirror, with Timelord abilities and a timey-wimey nature, and someone who travels the universe by herself. Amy has turned into Sarah Jane. :) (Also see this discussion.)
Conversion. (Ten wore Converse shoes for running.) "With the Word." Perfect that we get Cybermen this time. Silver men, *mirror men*, "you will be like us." This is how the Doctor fights monsters, becoming like them. Notice the eyeglass loop he wears while wiping the memory of the cybermat so he can reprogram it. Shushing everyone, an invocation of silence.
LOVELY. (And yes, I forgot to mention the cybermen. As well as Eleven's sudden declaration of love... Which was funny, but the fact that this is what he reaches for, after Ten's near fatal inability to say the words, speaks volumes about how far he's come.)
The impact he has on Craig. Fighting the cybermat on their backs, using kitchen implements to beat it into submission. Their gestures in the elevator while discussing the "star trek teleport" thingie. They take turns sitting and pacing in the kitchen; Eleven sprinkles pepper on Craig as if he's "cooking".
Oh god the pepper! *dies laughing again* Um good points. I just keep cracking up.
And the ultimate conversion: The Doctor learning to fight for love, rather than fighting against monsters, is ultimately what Craig learns, too.
And the fact that love isn't easy - as Roberts pointed out, it's Alfie crying, the thing that Craig has been unable to cope with, which brings him back and makes him fight. Oh I'm TOTALLY going to quote Buffy (because it'll always be applicable): 'Love is pain, and the Slayer forges strength from pain. Love... give... forgive. Risk the pain. It is your nature. Love will bring you to your gift.'
no subject
"I can be brave for you..."
Vigilantes are not a good thing, and I don’t think the Doctor is very keen to be a pawn in someone else’s game.
I think part of the Doctor's aim in recruiting his younger self and (more importantly) his companions to go to "Space 1969" is so that someone will know about The Silence after he is gone. With him out of the way, they have a clear field to do whatever they want to the universe. It's a follow-up to what he needed from Craig, proof that people can do things for themselves, that the universe can carry on without him. And now that he's seen that, he can really be done saving them and leave the universe in the hands of River, Amy, Rory, Craig, and everyone else.
no subject
Exactly.
It's a follow-up to what he needed from Craig, proof that people can do things for themselves, that the universe can carry on without him. And now that he's seen that, he can really be done saving them and leave the universe in the hands of River, Amy, Rory, Craig, and everyone else.
Indeed. Although OBVIOUSLY he's going to come back somehow, but without the god complex.
Also, can I steal your icon?
no subject
Feel free. =)
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no subject
YES! Kovarian and co. (and Moffat) have focused on the darker side, it's wonderful to see the lighter, how he changes people for the better. It's the same with Amy, too-- she took her experiences of traveling, made her "nickname" into an inside joke, and runs her own life. She's not waiting around anymore.
it’s obviously not Amy in the spacesuit on the beach
Until canon shows otherwise, I remain convinced it will be. (I know I'm probably wrong, but it makes too much sense to me to change my mind based on what we know now.)
It is possible that this will mean literally re-writing her story and letting Amy and Rory have their baby back, but I suspect not.
I've never thought that. It's too pat, too easy. And it wouldn't be a simple rewrite of giving Amy her parents back-- it would change everything about River's history, and I doubt she'd grow up to be River.
He knows it is coming, knows that he in some measure deserves it (breaking The Laws of Time/losing Melody etc), and he's travelled on his own for a long time - yet there are huge, vast differences.
I thank you so much for pointing them out in a positive light. (I wrote a bit of meta in my 6.11 review, and a stranger came into my LJ with a relentlessly negative opinion, saying Eleven is worse than Ten, and Moffat's arc is unhealthy for/damaging children. I couldn't get her to see the positives.)
I have my own meta on Ten versus Eleven's deaths and attitudes toward that I'm planning to write (have to wait until after the finale airs), but I like how you approach things by mental age. "Not fair" is the refrain of a teenager. Eleven, well, his monologue to Alfie is possibly my favorite part of the episode.
Vigilantes are not a good thing, and I don’t think the Doctor is very keen to be a pawn in someone else’s game.
Even though he's sort of a vigilante himself, but it's on his terms. And he hates being a pawn-- look how he reacted to the Time Lords trying to control him. :D
He is at peace with dying, but the why, I think, is going to be pivotal. Because he's the Doctor, and he's here to help.
Yes. Just yes.
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*nods* I think this foray into darkness was very deliberate, and one that didn't show darkness as 'cool', but as something problematic. And from that the Doctor has been able to grow and learn and has hopefully gotten rid of his god complex for good.
Until canon shows otherwise, I remain convinced it will be. (I know I'm probably wrong, but it makes too much sense to me to change my mind based on what we know now.)
Something I'm beginning to learn is that Moffat takes the obvious route, the one that's been signposted to death, but that that's never the end, it's just the beginning. Amy will, I'm sure, play a huge role, but mostly as River's mother I should imagine.
I've never thought that. It's too pat, too easy. And it wouldn't be a simple rewrite of giving Amy her parents back-- it would change everything about River's history, and I doubt she'd grow up to be River.
M-hm. It's all so very specific, plus - she tells him not to change a thing before she dies. I think (based on all the standalones), that it'll more be about acceptance of who she is.
I thank you so much for pointing them out in a positive light.
It is my particular gift! :) Also, I remember far too well all the negative reactions to EoT, so although I can't help mocking a tiny bit, I can't see any reason to say 'This is good, and so much better than that.' If I can only make something look good by making something else look bad, then I am standing on flimsy ground.
(I wrote a bit of meta in my 6.11 review, and a stranger came into my LJ with a relentlessly negative opinion, saying Eleven is worse than Ten, and Moffat's arc is unhealthy for/damaging children. I couldn't get her to see the positives.)
O_O As a *mother*, I find Moffat's stuff infinitely better for the kids than RTD's. And you can quote me on that. (Not putting RTD down, but...)
I have my own meta on Ten versus Eleven's deaths and attitudes toward that I'm planning to write (have to wait until after the finale airs), but I like how you approach things by mental age. "Not fair" is the refrain of a teenager. Eleven, well, his monologue to Alfie is possibly my favorite part of the episode.
I can't for the life of me remember where I first read this, but someone talked about how Nine is like a child, Ten like a teenager and Eleven like an adult (young adult - and now older). I always liked this.
Even though he's sort of a vigilante himself, but it's on his terms. And he hates being a pawn-- look how he reacted to the Time Lords trying to control him. :D
Indeed. Although I think this season has really, really taught him to look at himself more carefully. (Oh Demon's Run... <3)
Yes. Just yes.
It makes me sniffle, just thinking about it.
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Yes, and it will be quite a different show (especially from RTD's era). And it will be better for it-- the mad man in the box off to see the universe.
Something I'm beginning to learn is that Moffat takes the obvious route, the one that's been signposted to death, but that that's never the end, it's just the beginning.
I've thought that for a while. So many people are going "Moffat is complicated; everything is twisty; multiple timestreams and the Ponds will get infant!Melody back" that I've basically kept my mouth shut in order to keep from going mad trying to prevail against much of fandom's opinion.
It is my particular gift!
And it's why I keep reading your LJ. I love Who; I don't want to be dragged down by negativity.
If I can only make something look good by making something else look bad, then I am standing on flimsy ground.
I agree. It's one thing to criticize in comparison, but it's another thing entirely to bash. (And you mock out of love, anyway. There's a subtle difference there that nevertheless comes across.)
O_O As a *mother*, I find Moffat's stuff infinitely better for the kids than RTD's. And you can quote me on that. (Not putting RTD down, but...)
That was pretty much my reaction. (Minus the mother bit-- not one and have no plans to be.) I told her that I would have loved this storyline as a kid; I've always liked the darker side to stories. Plus, it's one of the "we must protect the children" things that really gets me riled. Hiding darkness won't help anyone, least of all the ones who are growing up and needing to know that stuff. (I have an entire rant on this-- it's an attitude that's prevalent here in America-- so I'll stop now.)
As for the RTD versus Moffat, I agree wholeheartedly. Moffat truly seems to care about family and relationships between people that *aren't* antagonistic.
how Nine is like a child, Ten like a teenager and Eleven like an adult (young adult - and now older)
Ooh! That's an awesome thought (and so believable).
I think this season has really, really taught him to look at himself more carefully.
It has. The 6.11 meta I mentioned was all about how the Doctor choosing to kick Amy and Rory off the TARDIS meant he could no longer hide from himself in the emptiness-- he had to face what he'd learned, and choose how he was going to live in the future. (Did I mention I love this arc?)
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Just like it was in the olden days... :)
I've thought that for a while. So many people are going "Moffat is complicated; everything is twisty; multiple timestreams and the Ponds will get infant!Melody back" that I've basically kept my mouth shut in order to keep from going mad trying to prevail against much of fandom's opinion.
It's funny, because obviously SOMETHING will need to happen so we get the Doctor back/he doesn't die/[insert other explanation], but if we look at the story of Melody, then 'River is Amy and Rory's daughter' was by far the simplest explanation, and it turned out to be the correct one.. Her *story*, kidnapping etc, is complicated yes, but the basic premise is still ridiculously straightforward.
And it's why I keep reading your LJ. I love Who; I don't want to be dragged down by negativity.
I live in my own little happy corner, and have no desire to explore beyond that. Fannishness is my Happy Place, why would I want to grumble, I have enough problems in RL...
I agree. It's one thing to criticize in comparison, but it's another thing entirely to bash. (And you mock out of love, anyway. There's a subtle difference there that nevertheless comes across.)
Let me guess - it's the dancing Barrowmans... *g* (Also I'd hate to harsh anyone's squee.)
That was pretty much my reaction. (Minus the mother bit-- not one and have no plans to be.) I told her that I would have loved this storyline as a kid; I've always liked the darker side to stories.
My girls LOVE it. And they generally don't find it scary, to be honest. Plus, it sparks brilliant discussions. (We watched TIA tonight, and the way they connected older Doctor from Closing Time to the one at the beginning of TIA, and were THRILLED with how clever it all was... Oh, this is what TV is for!)
Plus, it's one of the "we must protect the children" things that really gets me riled. Hiding darkness won't help anyone, least of all the ones who are growing up and needing to know that stuff. (I have an entire rant on this-- it's an attitude that's prevalent here in America-- so I'll stop now.)
Preaching to the choir.
As for the RTD versus Moffat, I agree wholeheartedly. Moffat truly seems to care about family and relationships between people that *aren't* antagonistic.
RTD has many talents, but he readily admits that Moffat is better at family stuff. And as for kids in the audience, then my girls are STILL upset about Donna's fate, and I had to explain Water of Mars. That was tricky. (Oh the Doctor went mad and sort of became evil...)
Ooh! That's an awesome thought (and so believable).
Neat, isn't it? And I think we can take the Time War as a reset for the character.
It has. The 6.11 meta I mentioned was all about how the Doctor choosing to kick Amy and Rory off the TARDIS meant he could no longer hide from himself in the emptiness-- he had to face what he'd learned, and choose how he was going to live in the future. (Did I mention I love this arc?)
Will have a look later, if I remember. (Head slowly dying of cold.) But that is an excellent point, and yeah, I love this arc too. <3
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You probably got the specific wording from me--I've used it a lot. But it's a notion I culled out of the ether, and I can't quite remember what's mine and not.
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All hail!
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♥
You definitely summed up why I loved this episode, why I loved the inclusion of Alfie (I'm usually not someone who automatically "aww"s whenever a baby is on-screen but this time I adored it)
Babies are lovely, but it's nice when they're there for a REASON...
and why I love Eleven and why I love him in relation to where he's come from (Ten).
I love the progression, and the way Moffat has taken all of the issues and dismantled them.
And you're very right and I only really realized that when I read this. The one real question that I'm eager to know the answer from this finale is, "Why?" I don't want to know "Who?" (which is interesting considering how much they've played with that question too recently). I want to know why.
This is the thing Moffat does - he takes the obvious shocking issue (THE DOCTOR DIES), serves it up immediately, and then changes the focus to something else. I love it.
Which is interesting also, since this Silence business is related to the oldest question. And what really is an older question than, "Why?" Hmmm...
*points to icon* It's TOTALLY going to have something to do with this. ;)
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He'll make the sky rain on him if he has to.
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QED
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I don't get the "CARRY ALL THE BAGS!" comic, though. I mean, I know Rory was carrying bags for Amy, and I've read Hyperbole and a Half, but I don't understand the joke in the combination. Is it that Rory will do anything for Amy wholeheartedly, so he is more than happy to live a normal live fetching and carrying for her?
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As for 'CARRY ALL THE BAGS' then it was more that it wasn't until I looked at the scene in question for the second time that I realised just how many bags Rory was carrying... So nothing big or clever, it just made me laugh.
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It took me a long time to let go of Ten (I hadn't fallen for a Doctor so hard since the days of Four and Five) but omg I so love Eleven now! He's fast becoming my favourite Doctor EVER. Matt Smith is just so perfect in the role - and this season has had me squeeing and flailing on a regular basis!
*flails some more in anticipation of the finale*
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It took me a long time to let go of Ten (I hadn't fallen for a Doctor so hard since the days of Four and Five) but omg I so love Eleven now!
Oh I loved Ten. He hit so many of my kinks it isn't even funny (hello there morally ambiguous hero in a long coat), but Eleven just... I can't even explain it. He's just magic.
He's fast becoming my favourite Doctor EVER. Matt Smith is just so perfect in the role - and this season has had me squeeing and flailing on a regular basis!
Magic. Also, I've never had someone like Eleven before. Except Gandalf maybe. He was something new.
*counts down SLOWLY*
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Well, Eleven *is* Space-Gandalf.
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:)
ETA: IT WOULD REALLY HELP IF I ACTUALLY CHOSE THE RIGHT ICON! *headdesk*
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. . . yeah.
I am commented out, but this is lovely, and yay, it's almost the end of the season and everything is so coherent! *celebrates, probably prematurely*
Here, have some oranges for your cold : )
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And oranges... Thank you.
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This all happened in the few days before we started this series yes? Doctor tells Craig that tomorrow is the day he dies, and the impression I got that this was true chronologically with Earth time, in a straight line, no timey wimey nonsense.
So surely the Amy and Rory in the shopping centre are the Amy and Rory that haven't yet seen the Doctor's death?
If this is so, does that make the poster's meaning change- my initial thought was that it was one of their *here we are* signs that Amy and Rory send out to get his attention?
This is all very confusing, and giving me a time-head.
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Hmmm. No, I think the Doctor is speaking from the POV of his own timeline, so he is ahead of his death, time wise. Going by Alfie's age, then if he was conceived pretty much immediately after the Doctor left (and if we presume that was June 2010), then he would have been born no earlier than February 2011. The Doctor died in April, and Alfie is a lot older than 3 months.
So... the Amy and Rory we see are definitely the ones that the Doctor left behind after The God Complex. :) Does that make sense?
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Timey-wimey. Makes it *really* confusing!
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*ignores screencap*
It's timey-wimey!
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And, while reading this, it occurred to me: Ten is young like a teenager: he's full hope and feelings and angst and just that bit of resentment at the situations life's put him in. He hates that he had to essentially kill off all of his people and that in the end that was all for nothing. Eleven is young like a child: full of barely contained energy and wonder at the world (which is true of all the Doctors, but moreso Eleven than Ten and Nine). He's always asking "why?" and he's always looking forward and not back. And all of that reflects on their actions and their relationships with their companions.
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Thank you! :)
Ten is young like a teenager: he's full hope and feelings and angst and just that bit of resentment at the situations life's put him in. He hates that he had to essentially kill off all of his people and that in the end that was all for nothing.
Oh Ten is totally a teenager, both the good and the bad. Eleven I see more as very old, but very child-like. He knows that there's no point in trying to be all sensible and grown-up - kids have far more fun, and see the world a lot more clearly. (I have reams of meta on these two...) Eleven is like the grandad, or uncle, who always plays with the children and gets up to all kinds of mischief, rather than sit around talking with the adults. :)
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*prays that it's literal*