Meta: The God Complex.

[elisi]

This week’s Doctor Who is without a doubt one of my favourite things ever. It was beautiful and heartbreaking and hit one of my major, major kinks and it also - miracles of miracles - treated religion with intelligence, rather than just steal some imagery and then sneer. Basically it was [metaphorically, and literally] 1 Corinthians 13, 11-12 in Doctor Who form (and yes, that is a spoiler-y, so don’t look it up if you don’t want to know). :)

Oh and please no spoilers beyond this episode. Thank you.

The God Complex
Now, for those not terribly familiar with the Bible, here it is written out:

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

Hello there Growing-Up Theme, have we met? Why yes we have. A long time ago I think...

Let’s go back to the beginning. The Doctor was late for Amelia (twice), and

DOCTOR: So... coming?
AMY: No!
DOCTOR: You wanted to come 14 years ago.
AMY: I grew up.
DOCTOR: Don't worry. I'll soon fix that.

Season 5 was about the Doctor trying to fix the little girl he broke - give her back the magic of childhood, so she could grow up properly and be ready to take that final step into adulthood and get married. We saw that he was ready to leave Amy and Rory behind, sneaking away from the reception on his own - happy about the way everything had turned out for the best, and prepared to let his young friends explore married life on their own.

Except... except River. River who turned up and delayed him long enough for Amy and Rory to get to the TARDIS for a new round of running away. Now River was obviously keen to ensure her own future, and the Doctor was hardly going to kick Amy and Rory out. But - there are consequences for refusing to grow up. Let me borrow two quotes:

“...the Doctor has sort of hung around in her life for far too long. He never says it out loud, but he obviously has an MO. 'I'll get out before I screw up their chances of happiness. I'll run away, and let them grow up. I'll go and find somebody else to mess about with.' But he's accidentally ended up with a married couple in the TARDIS, because he ran alway with Amy on the night of her wedding, and now he's in the most dreadful pickle. "
Steven Moffat, DWM 433

You can run, run forever, never put away childish things. You can stay a child forever.
All it takes is sacrifice. Your firstborn. That will do.
janie_aire

This episode was all about growing up and putting aside childish things. About seeing things for what they really are. About examining faith and whether it is true or misplaced.

The Doctor never really stopped seeing Amy as that little 7 year old girl (which was undoubtedly one reason he would never ever go there with her), and the hard work to restore her faith in him worked too well - her belief is that of a child's, who believes completely and without question. I think we can probably blame this faith/attitude for the lack of talk about Melody since LKH. a) Amy - still - believed that the Doctor would somehow fix the situation, and because of this b) She was running away. And oh my, has the Doctor been her enabler on that front...

AMY: You know what I said about getting back for tomorrow morning... Have you ever run away from something because you were scared, or not ready, or just... Just because you could?
DOCTOR: Once...a long time ago.
AMY: What happened?
DOCTOR: Hello!

They're both running from the truth that the Doctor can't fix Amy's life. Older Amy in The Girl Who Waited learned it the hard way, with almost nothing except bitterness left. And Rory, always more aware of things, always the adult, was already berating the Doctor in Vampires of Venice.

So faith... Good or bad? Well, let's look at Gibbis first. He was the only survivor, and people have wondered at this. But once I thought about it in a little more detail it was obvious - Gibbis, essentially, will believe in anything. He'll trow himself behind whatever presents the best hope of personal survival, so the minotaur could never get a foothold as Gibbis' faith kept shifting. Everyone else believed in something specific.

ETA: Forgot to mention! Gibbis is basically the anti-Doctor, cowardly where the Doctor is brave, ready to follow where the Doctor takes charge. The Doctor saves even the fish - Gibbis eats them. In an episode so critical of the Doctor, Gibbis is very important in showing us the flip side.

Which brings me to Rita. Oh Rita. Brilliant, wonderful Rita. Now she was clever and the Doctor was attracted to her like a moth to a flame, but she did something even more brilliant - she in no time at all pinpointed the Doctor's god complex, and I absolutely attribute this to her faith. Because the thing about real faith is that it's not blind or unquestioning. If you want to base your life on something, any intelligent person wants to make sure that's it's a solid foundation and not just pretty words. Which is why she questions the Doctor - as far as she can tell, he's just a man. Why is he setting himself up as saviour? (There is a difference between making yourself leader - which Rita has obviously done in her little group, since she's by far the most capable - and telling everyone that you are going to save them.)

(We have had Rory criticising the Doctor for a long while, because he is a very realistic person. To have a someone else make the same kind of critisism, but coming from a completely different worldview, is too delightful for words. So very often faith is portrayed as something irrational, which seriously annoys me. So thank you Mr Whithouse. I was not expecting this.)

Rita, although flattered and intrigued, rejects the Doctor, seeing him clearly for what he is. Rita is an adult, not ready to be drawn in by fairy tales when her life hangs in the balance.

Unlike Amy...

The Doctor's actions are long overdue, and deeply necessary. And not just for Amy's sake. 'What do Time Lords pray to?' asks Amy.

DOCTOR: Oh! Oh, Amelia Pond before I got it all wrong. My sweet little Amelia.
INTERFACE: I am not Amelia Pond. I am a voice interface.
DOCTOR: Hey, let's run away and have adventures. Come along, Pond.
[...]
DOCTOR: I'm going out in the first round. Ringing any bells? (cries in pain and falls face-down on the floor) OK, need something for the pain now. Come on, Amelia. It's me. Please.
INTERFACE: I am not Amelia Pond. I am a voice interface.
DOCTOR: Amelia, listen to me... I can be brave for you but you have got to tell me how.

The Doctor needs her faith, as much as she needs her belief in him. It's the most delightful co-dependency. The Doctor wants his sweet little Amelia, that he can run away with forever. Amy wants her Raggedy Doctor, who will fix her life. And in destroying Amy's faith in him, the Doctor is simultaneously allowing himself to see her as she really is - not his glorious Pond, but Amy Williams, a young married woman (the 'Williams' isn't about saying that women should take their husband's name - it's just a shorthand to differentiate). Which again is what leads to the minotaur's death. Both Amy and the Doctor found their rooms, so to destroy the minotaur they both needed their faith broken. (Rory didn't have a room and I don't think the Angels were it for Gibbis.)

Anyway, the Doctor then does the mature thing. He doesn't try to rebuild her faith, he lets her go.

To call back to The Girl Who Waited:



AMY: Why now?
DOCTOR: Because you're still breathing.
[...]
And what's the alternative? Me standing over your grave? Over your broken body? Over Rory's body?

In TGWW the focus was quite rightly on Rory and Amy... yet the Doctor was the one to close the door on older Amy, the one who lied through his teeth to save one because he couldn’t have both. We see the effects here.

It’s the mature thing to do, and I love that he does it, and that it show adulthood as an inevitable part of life, not something terrible. Amy is sad to leave her childhood behind, but clinging onto it for too long came with a heavy price (see janie_aire's quote above). And growing up is good - you get to have new little people, who need parents, adults, to help and guide. Refusing to accept how life goes - clinging onto childhood, or life, for too long - is never good.

Another thing I love is how the Doctor has clearly learned from the past, and is able to do the right thing, no matter how painful. Because he knows that the alternative is worse. Rose and Donna's 'forever' always bothered me (as did the Doctor's acceptance of those words - even if he was lying), and considering the way that he lost them, it is no wonder that he lets Amy go, forcing her to see the truth.

Stepping sideways for a minute, then it's interesting to look at River. River believes in the Doctor 100% (and she knows he needs that belief), but she has extremely realistic expectations of him):

OCTAVIAN: Dr Song, I've lost good Clerics today. You trust this man?
RIVER: I absolutely trust him.
OCTAVIAN: He's not some kind of madman then?
RIVER: I absolutely trust him.

RIVER: Father Octavian, when the Doctor is in the room, your only mission is to keep him alive long enough to get everyone else home. And trust me. It's not easy.

Now going back to Amy running from reality in regards to the Melody situation, then I am actually reminded of Fred from Angel. Fred was sucked into a Helldimension where humans were kept as cattle and survived by her wits for five years, before Team Angel happened to end up in the same place and rescued her. Now some months after retuning to Earth, and having slowly readjusted to normal life, Fred's parents turned up, looking for their daughter (Fred's parents are probably the NICEST parents in the whole of the Joss verse). And what did Fred do? Did she fall into their arms, saying how much she'd missed them? No - she ran. She grabbed her things and ran as far and as fast as she could. As she explained once they were reunited:

Trish: "Honey, don't you remember us?"
Fred: "I was - I was five years and so lost and, and at night I would... I was all by myself and you weren't there!"
Fred starts to cry.
Roger: "Fred, I don't understand."
Fred: "I got lost. I got lost, and they did terrible things to me, but, but it was just a storybook. It was just a story with monsters, not real. (keeps shaking her head) Not in the world but - but if you're here and you see me then - then it's real! And it did happen. If you see what they made of me... I - I didn't mean to get so lost!"

The Amy who keeps travelling with the Doctor can pretend that in some ways everything that happened to her was just a story. It feels like a story, sounds like a story. And because it's a story with the Doctor in, and he's the hero, then it will have a happy ending, she just needs to wait. Because there is always a happy ending to fairy tales, isn't there?


Mirrors and Boxes.

Now, as for the Doctor and his role and the way he is mirrored in the minotaur. Well. donna_c_punk has a wonderful theory that the whole hotel is the Doctor's room, and it was set up to trap him. I'm not sure I am convinced, but the parallels between the minotaur and the Doctor are spelled out so clearly (hello anvils! I don't mind you, you help my children understand stuff) that all I can do is try to look beyond them.

This is where 'For now we see in a mirror dimly' comes into play. The number of mirrors (both real and metaphorical) on this show is getting almost ridiculous. Let's start with the boxes.

The minotaur was actually in a prison. And the thing is - the Doctor lives in a Police Box. Again, River in Stormcage is such a perfect parallel... all these Doctor mirrors in their prison boxes.

The difference with the minotaur is that it's lost itself and has become pure instinct, and we see this trait in the Doctor both when he's talking to Rita and in his last goodbye to Amy. He can't stop himself from running, from looking to the next thing, from talking about all the bright and shiny things out there. Matt once said that his Doctor was addicted to time travel, and this is beginning to ring true in a way I'd not foreseen - he needs thrills, feeds off them, very much like an addict. Much like he constantly asks people to trust him...

Now these are not bad qualities. The Doctor is brave and marvellous and amazing, but any one thing taken to extremes can turn into something much darker. What is the Doctor afraid of? We hear the cloister bell, but I don't think the death of the TARDIS is his greatest fear. My guess as to who is in his room is his own dark mirror - The Valeyard/The Timelord Victorious/The Dream Lord. Someone who demands/steals what should be freely given ('He never asks to be thanked'/'Isn't anyone going to thank me?'), someone who makes himself god, playing with people, taking all for himself.

Oh he really, really had to let Amy go... (And she him: 'But don't tell him I said that. The levels of smugness would be truly frightening.')

Anyway, that brings me to the general topic of 'monsters'. And - House apart, and 'he' was from outside the universe - no monster this season could be labelled as straightforward 'evil':

- The Silence. We now know that the Silence is actually a religious order, which makes their motives much more complex than 'evil aliens'. They're not nice by any stretch of the imagination, but they have agency beyond 'we kill things'. Also I'm guessing that 'The oldest question in the universe' will have something to do with the Doctor, so we have to wait and see.

- The Siren turned out to be a virtual doctor, trying to save people. Hello mirror.

- House (as I said) was a thoroughly nasty piece of work, yet even there we had a (dark) mirror for the Doctor: 'Fear me, I have killed hundreds of Timelords.'/'Fear me. I have killed them all.')

- The Gangers provided us with an actual, literal copy of the Doctor, and turned out to be as monstrous/brave as any human.

- Kovarian and her army were formed as a deliberate reaction against the Doctor's reputation and actions, and provided the Doctor with a mirror he could not deny ('This was exactly you...')

- Melody, created by Kovarian, was a perfect dark mirror, until she chose to become River, the mirror that runs through the whole series.

- The monsters George feared came from his fear of rejection, and were easily overcome, once his father accepted him for what he was. (Seeing each other clearly...)

- The handbots (robot doctors!) were only trying to help, and through that could have killed Amy. (So. Many. Mirrors.)

- Finally the minotaur, a parallel so big that the theme is truly spelled out for all to see.

So, in conclusion (because omg I do not have the time for this...), what the mirrors tell us is that the Doctor is good, but often misdirected, and because of that can be a danger to those around him. My immediate reaction to this episode was this. The Doctor, by misunderstanding the situation and by setting himself up as Hero in Charge (TM), nearly committed a terrible mistake. He did what he always does, what he can't help doing, and that is both wonderful and also dangerous. And it also set up Amy as the Doctor's mirror - taking his place, making the final decision. ('You could have killed everyone'/'You could have killed a starwhale'), something which was made literal in TGWW, right down to the sonic and 'I am going to tear time apart for you'... And it ends up destroying her. In The Beast Below we were also given Amy's image of the Doctor ('Very old and very kind...').

Mirrors, mirrors everywhere.

Now earlier on today I recced this vid, and it still says it perfectly - the lyrics are amazing:

Hardly a Hero

Exuberant and terrified
Every time I look into your eyes
But I can't entertain the thought
Cuz we both know I'm not the man you thought I was

And I'm hardly the hero
This is the only thing I know to do
To make it through

I'll leave you with this:

Comments

[janie-aire.livejournal.com]

Oh, you are brilliant and beautiful!

First, thank you so much for the Corinthians quote. Perfect, absolutely perfect, and I'm slapping myself upside the head for not grokking it earlier, 'cause that quote is repeated in Curse of Fenric, which also features the Doctor having to shake his Companion's faith in him. Yeesh, I'm getting old.


Which brings me to Rita... the thing about real faith is that it's not blind or unquestioning. If you want to base your life on something, any intelligent person wants to make sure that's it's a solid foundation and not just pretty words... Rita, although flattered and intrigued, rejects the Doctor, seeing him clearly for what he is. Rita is an adult, not ready to be drawn in by fairy tales when her life hangs in the balance.

And yet, it's Rita's mature faith that results in her demise, while Amy's childish faith is more easily shattered by the mirror of Truth. It's a clever inversion, for in the world of Doctor Who it's the Doctor who, however misguided, has a solid foundation.


The number of mirrors (both real and metaphorical) on this show is getting almost ridiculous.

It actually makes me feel a little bit sick trying to wrap my head around all the mirroring in this episode.

What did you think about the fish?


I think we can probably blame this faith/attitude for the lack of talk about Melody since LKH... Amy *still* believed that the Doctor would somehow fix the situation...

Brilliant insight, yes! And I loved the note played by Rita, that having a cup of tea is how the British cope with trauma -- in other words, bottling it up inside and putting on a brave face.

[elisi]

Oh, you are brilliant and beautiful!
*blushes* It's definitely mutual - that comment of yours really helped illuminate a lot of stuff for me.

First, thank you so much for the Corinthians quote. Perfect, absolutely perfect, and I'm slapping myself upside the head for not grokking it earlier, 'cause that quote is repeated in Curse of Fenric, which also features the Doctor having to shake his Companion's faith in him. Yeesh, I'm getting old.
Huh. I thought you were deliberately referencing it, so I was going to congratulate you on being clever! :)

And yet, it's Rita's mature faith that results in her demise, while Amy's childish faith is more easily shattered by the mirror of Truth. It's a clever inversion, for in the world of Doctor Who it's the Doctor who, however misguided, has a solid foundation.
I've yet to really get my head around the fact that I can engage with the text on this issue, and not go 'lalalalalala' and move past in order not to get cross. (This is my method for dealing with RTD. It usually works, except for MD...)

It actually makes me feel a little bit sick trying to wrap my head around all the mirroring in this episode.
Yeah...

What did you think about the fish?
I... don't know. Well, obviously fish = people, and Gibbis ate it (much like he was willing to sacrifice anyone and everyone), and there's of course Jim the Fish (signifying being on the same page)... But most of all I find myself returning to this drabble, which is the best drabble EVER, as well as being the best summary of Doctor Who anywhere at all:

"Yeah, I know what an allegory is," said Ace.

Brilliant insight, yes!
I owe that one to Promethia. :)

And I loved the note played by Rita, that having a cup of tea is how the British cope with trauma -- in other words, bottling it up inside and putting on a brave face.
It's funny because it's TRUE!

[promethia_tenk]

Oop, and I see elisi has gotten to this while I type, but to add to what she's said already:

What did you think about the fish?

<>< Love the fish! Fish, so far as I can tell, are a very generalized metaphor for people and life in Moff Who. They live in water, which is time, and the Doctor has been given a number of associations with the Fisher King, whose wellbeing is closely connected with the wellbeing and fertility of all his kingdom, and who will be healed when a questing knight comes and asks the correct question(s), which are a mystery. (The Fisher King myth is one of a number of very old myths connecting fish and fishers with the origins and preservation of life; the association of Jesus with fish comes out of the same symbolism.)

Best guess for this particular fish is that it is to highlight the difference between the Doctor's compulsive need to save people (he even has to save the goldfish!) and Gibbis' sly self-preservation that sacrifices others (him eating it so secretively, caught by the security cameras). I also saw a group of people who were, shall we say, less than fans of Moff joking that the fish was obviously Melody "oh, it all makes sense now!" But frankly, I wouldn't rule that out. Amy has a similar bowl with a fish on the kitchen counter at the beginning of TIA (and doesn't it look a bit like a pregnant belly, that shape?), and the Doctor specifically tells Amy to save the fish, which would be some nice foreshadowing if Amy has to step up to save her daughter in some way, shape, or form in the finale.

[rahirah]

The problem I have with all this is that to me, the real signifier of Amy growing up and moving on would be her deciding to leave on her own, as Martha and many, many Old Who companions did. In kicking her out 'for her own good' the Doctor is being no less paternalistic and controlling than he was when he wanted her to adore him. And we're right back to the Doctor wallowing in emo manpain and refusing to admit that his companions have agency. I see this episode as a huge step backwards, not forwards.

[joking.livejournal.com]

This is why I don't think Amy and Rory's eviction from the TARDIS is permanent. I don't think they can just immediately adjust back to normal life because the Doctor decided they should. They'll be back next season.

[promethia_tenk]

I find it notable that their leaving is happening *now*, rather than at the end of the finale. If they were running away from their lives again (and particularly the Melody situation) and Amy was passively assuming the Doctor could fix everything for her, then maybe she did need that kick out the door to give her the distance and perspective to see her life clearly enough to really start making her own decisions. Basically, I'm figuring the finale is gonna involve the Ponds barging back onto the scene, kicking ass and taking names.

[elisi]

Hmmm. Well, what others have said (obviously), but I think there's a difference in that he explained what he was doing and why, and Amy clearly agreed.

And - just to be very flip - considering how much this season has been tearing him down, he probably deserves a little moment of man!pain. ;) As someone said, last time he was ~Ronery~, he went mad and decided that, yes, actually, he could do whatever he wanted. I'm looking forward to seeing him not doing that, and learning to deal with his loneliness in a more healthy manner. Amy needs to accept that she's a grown-up and the Doctor needs to accept that he will always be alone, in one sense or another.

ETA: And as indy1776 says further down, it echoes his goodbye to Barbara - except he's leaving them with a house and car (and both shoes!) and says a proper goodbye, rather than locking them out. See? He's learning. :)

[owlboy]

>>Matt once said that his Doctor was addicted to time travel

cuz it's all he has. :( Maybe he should get a hobby, like knitting or soduku.

I wish I had thoughts, but my brain is fried today. all I can manage is "yay meta good"

[elisi]

cuz it's all he has. :( Maybe he should get a hobby, like knitting or soduku.
Knitting or bi-plane, was it? Ahem. Yes, he keeps running, because it's all he has and all he knows.

I wish I had thoughts, but my brain is fried today. all I can manage is "yay meta good"
Yay meta good is very good! :)

[promethia_tenk]

kaffyr, earlier this week, described you as running a salon, and I can only agree with the accuracy of this statement : ) Beautiful as always *squishes*

[elisi]

A Meta Salon? I suppose I am. Never thought about it like that, just that I'm overly wordy. ;) Oh and thank you. *squishes you back* Really, really couldn't do this without you!

Oh my goodness I am SO HAPPY the show is over soon, I DO NOT have time for this... /o\

[independence1776]

This episode was all about growing up and putting aside childish things. About seeing things for what they really are. About examining faith and whether it is true or misplaced.

I need to rewatch the episode again with this in mind. I didn’t miss it the first time, but it wasn’t the lens I watched it through. (I watched it through “the Doctor’s journey of deconstruction”-- it’s my default mode for S6.)

I think we can probably blame this faith/attitude for the lack of talk about Melody since LKH.

Yes! She trusts he’ll fix it. After all, he helped bring her parents-- and a non-plastic Rory-- back for her, returned twice (thus breaking her a bit more and reinforcing her faith at the same time), helped her find herself, vindicated her belief in him at her wedding (by proving to everyone there that he did, in fact, exist), and a bunch of little things.

But I don’t think he will fix things, at least in the sense of getting baby!Melody back. But then, I compared the LKH situation to kids leaving the house for university or whatnot and thus is normal (just possibly accelerated), so I obviously don’t have a problem with it as it stands.

Gibbis' faith kept shifting. Everyone else believed in something specific .

But he believed that someone would save him-- it didn’t matter who. So I suspect I’ll remain a bit confused.

Rita: I have nothing but love for her.

Another thing I love is how the Doctor has clearly learned from the past, and is able to do the right thing, no matter how painful.

Yes. It’s not about him being alone now (though I love how empty the console room was at the end); it’s not about him dwelling in pain or saving Amy and Rory from himself or the dangers. With how often they’ve died in both seeming and fact, it’s definitely a part, but it isn’t the whole. Plus, I think he’d bought the house a while back and was just waiting for the right moment. It’s an apology that he wasn’t able to fix things.

Here's another bit of mirroring for you (from way, way back):

DOCTOR: During all the years, I’ve been taking care of you, you in return have been taking care of me.
SUSAN: On scanner - taking her TARDIS key from around her neck Grandfather, I belong with you!
DOCTOR: Not any longer, Susan. You’re still my grandchild and always will be. But now, you’re a woman too. I want you to belong somewhere, to have roots of your own. With David, you’ll be able to find those roots. Live normally like any woman should do. Believe me, my dear, your future lies with David. And not with a silly old buffer like me. One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine. Reaching for the controls Goodbye, Susan, goodbye, my dear.
With a pained look on his face, he activates the controls. The TARDIS dematerializes. SUSAN, still holding her TARDIS key, walks into the now empty space and presses the air. She looks at the ground and then into the sky. DAVID joins her and holds out his hand.
DAVID CAMPBELL: Susan? Susan? He knew... He knew you could never leave him.

[elisi]

I need to rewatch the episode again with this in mind. I didn’t miss it the first time, but it wasn’t the lens I watched it through. (I watched it through “the Doctor’s journey of deconstruction”-- it’s my default mode for S6.)
There are many ways of watching it...

Yes! She trusts he’ll fix it. After all, he helped bring her parents-- and a non-plastic Rory-- back for her, returned twice (thus breaking her a bit more and reinforcing her faith at the same time), helped her find herself, vindicated her belief in him at her wedding (by proving to everyone there that he did, in fact, exist), and a bunch of little things.
*nods a lot*

But I don’t think he will fix things, at least in the sense of getting baby!Melody back. But then, I compared the LKH situation to kids leaving the house for university or whatnot and thus is normal (just possibly accelerated), so I obviously don’t have a problem with it as it stands.
I think if they get her back, it won't be because of the Doctor, but because of Amy.

But he believed that someone would save him-- it didn’t matter who. So I suspect I’ll remain a bit confused.
Added this, you might not have seen it: Gibbis is basically the anti-Doctor, cowardly where the Doctor is brave, ready to follow where the Doctor takes charge. The Doctor saves even the fish [metaphor: fish are people] - Gibbis eats them. In an episode so critical of the Doctor, Gibbis is very important in showing us the flip side.

Yes. It’s not about him being alone now (though I love how empty the console room was at the end); it’s not about him dwelling in pain or saving Amy and Rory from himself or the dangers. With how often they’ve died in both seeming and fact, it’s definitely a part, but it isn’t the whole.
It's a necessary goodbye. And he leaves the healthy and alive and ready to start their own life. As you point out so beautifully, it's just like Barbara (LOVE that scene), except this time he takes the time to explain himself and gets Amy's assent that now is the time.

*sniff*

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

in destroying Amy's faith in him, the Doctor is simultaneously allowing himself to see her as she really is - not his glorious Pond, but Amy Williams, a young married woman (the 'Williams' isn't about saying that women should take their husband's name - it's just a shorthand to differentiate).

Yes, the "Williams" is a shorthand to differentiate and I can see why they did that. I wish they hadn't used "Williams" though, because it implies Amy Pond can't be grown up *unless* she has her husband's name. There are all sorts of unfortunate implications there.

The Doctor never really stopped seeing Amy as that little 7 year old girl (which was undoubtedly one reason he would never ever go there with her), and the hard work to restore her faith in him worked too well - her belief is that of a child's, who believes completely and without question.

Yes, this. And this is why I wish they'd kept the Amelia/Amy distinction from "The Big Bang" onwards, to emphasize that the Doctor thinks of her as Amelia. (E.g., the Doctor could have repeatedly called her Amelia.) In "The Eleventh Hour," "Amy Pond" is the adult identity she chooses for herself. By using Pond/Williams instead of Amelia/Amy as the childhood/adult distinction, it essentially says to me that "Amy Pond" is--well, not a false identity, but--only temporary, if that makes sense. Like she's caught somewhere in between "Amelia Pond" and "Amy Williams", and at some point she must cease to exist. This really bothers me on some deep level.

[elisi]

From T.S. Eliot's notes to the Waste Land:

Tiresias, although a mere spectator and not indeed a 'character', is yet the most important personage in the poem, uniting all the rest. Just as the one-eyed merchant, seller of currants, melts into the Phoenician Sailor, and the latter is not wholly distinct from Ferdinand Prince of Naples, so all the women are one woman, and the two sexes meet in Tiresias. What Tiresias sees, in fact, is the substance of the poem.

Moffat, in many ways, does the same. He tackles the general through the mundane. In telling the specific story of Amy and Rory, he is making points about couples and love generally. (Which makes the Doctor (and/or River) Tiresias I guess. Storytellers...)

In "The Eleventh Hour," "Amy Pond" is the adult identity she chooses for herself. By using Pond/Williams instead of Amelia/Amy as the childhood/adult distinction, it essentially says to me that "Amy Pond" is--well, not a false identity, but--only temporary, if that makes sense. Like she's caught somewhere in between "Amelia Pond" and "Amy Williams", and at some point she must cease to exist. This really bothers me on some deep level.
Hmmm. My immediate reaction is that 'Amy Pond' grew as a reaction against the Doctor. She was Amelia to him, so she chose something else, something *not* Amelia, *not* a fairy tale, in order to define herself. Looked at from another angle (and I was going to include this, but forgot), there was always that Pond/Williams split - the tension between the mundane and the extraordinary:

DOCTOR: Melody! Hello, Melody Pond!
RORY: Melody Williams.
AMY: ..is a geography teacher. Melody Pond is a superhero!

How very right she turned out to be.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Yay! This is great. I like the Corinthians reference a bunch.

[elisi]

Good, isn't it? *hugs show* Oh and thank you! The 'good' was re. the reference!

[hawkmoth.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm so glad I friended you this morning (what took me so long?) and got to see this directly...although I didn't have time to comment.

Brilliant and spot-on. I love it. I said somewhere else earlier that the Doctor had to let Amy and Rory go, that he had to *let go of them*. He may be a person who needs people, but he needed to recognize that he had reached a point that his kind of need is not necessarily a good thing for the people he's come to rely on.

Now here's a point: As far as we know, afte ACC, after the "honeymoon" bit he talked about in that Sarah Jane adventure, *our* Doctor (current Doctor) brought Rory and Amy (pregnant but not yet aware of it) back to Earth, to a relatively settled life, possibly in Leadworth, but apparently not in the same house we see at the end of TGC.

Whose choice was that? Did he drop them off for a little vacation from life in the TARDIS? Did they ask for a little breather? In TIA, Rory(?) says it's been two months since they've seen him in person. They are aware that he's "waving at them" out of history. But! They think it's *their* Doctor. We (and they) find out later that it was Future!Doctor.

Do we assume Amy and Rory are expecting Current!Doctor (who was off having his own adventures before getting his invitation to Utah?) to show up eventually? They obviously think their invitation is from him, and only get puzzled during the picnic when F!D mentions his age.

And...what's my point? Well, Amy and Rory don't seem too unhappy when we meet them at the end of those two months. Okay, if they're expecting the Doctor to come swooping in again to whisk them off for more time travel, they're not too anxious about it. So, even with all the angst and trials and tribulations of the events of the rest of the series, even though the Doctor made the choice for them, it's not like they're being thrown into "normality" without any experience at it. Sure, it's a wrench that he's leaving them, but I think they will adjust and be just fine...unless there are more adventures in store...but they'd be ready...

(And we're still left with the mystery of exactly when Amy was kidnapped and replaced by her ganger/avatar. Somewhere in the middle of that two month period, I think.)

[elisi]

Oh, I'm so glad I friended you this morning (what took me so long?) and got to see this directly...although I didn't have time to comment.
Well welcome to [here, have some tea and virtual cookies], and sorry it took me this long to reply. Life sort of decided to be awesome and VERY BUSY!

Brilliant and spot-on. I love it.
*beams* You can stay. Oh yes. ;)

I said somewhere else earlier that the Doctor had to let Amy and Rory go, that he had to *let go of them*. He may be a person who needs people, but he needed to recognize that he had reached a point that his kind of need is not necessarily a good thing for the people he's come to rely on.
*nods* All good things must come to an end. Especially if they've been going on for too long. I keep comparing the goodbye here with the Doctor slipping off in The Big Bang - the difference in emotion couldn't be greater. Then he was dancing up the stairs, happy that the universe was saved and that his friends were safe, that he was still alive and ready for new adventures, as they set off on their own too. But now...

And...what's my point? Well, Amy and Rory don't seem too unhappy when we meet them at the end of those two months. Okay, if they're expecting the Doctor to come swooping in again to whisk them off for more time travel, they're not too anxious about it. So, even with all the angst and trials and tribulations of the events of the rest of the series, even though the Doctor made the choice for them, it's not like they're being thrown into "normality" without any experience at it. Sure, it's a wrench that he's leaving them, but I think they will adjust and be just fine...unless there are more adventures in store...but they'd be ready...
*nods a lot* I think this episode strikes more of a final note, in that journeys will just be one-offs from now. Which... Might have been the intention originally, but then Current!Doctor was held captive for three months and then discovered about the odd (not)pregnancy and had to keep them with him to find out what was happening. And then came Demon's Run and he failed to saved Melody etc etc. So he was taking them with him partly out of duty, I think, to stop them - and himself - from facing up to how much he'd screwed things up.

So yes, it was very necessary to let them go, for all kinds of reasons.

[donna-c-punk.livejournal.com]

These are some great thoughts on the episode!

What is the Doctor afraid of? We hear the cloister bell, but I don't think the death of the TARDIS is his greatest fear.

My mind is always processing and working through things for days and sometimes weeks after an episode airs. I've been considering what he found behind the door marked "11" and, while in the shower this morning, came up with a possible alternate idea: maybe it was the actual TARDIS he found behind the door, the cloister bells ringing because of the extreme danger. It would also explain why he'd marked the door with a "Do Not Disturb" sign. I didn't see where he got that from, though. Was it the back of the door?

So, if "11" wasn't his "trigger" room, perhaps the room with little Amelia sitting on her suitcase was meant for him, not Amy? It's so easy to trick the audience into thinking Amelia was meant for Amy, but based on what the Doctor said to try to destroy Amy's faith made him "face up" to himself and his flaws. If he can't believe in his own abilities ... we're kinda screwed.

[elisi]

These are some great thoughts on the episode!
Thank you, and hello! Loved your post btw, and was going to comment, except this was eating my head at the time. Lots of my thoughts went into my own post though, so thanks for interesting ideas! :)

My mind is always processing and working through things for days and sometimes weeks after an episode airs.
Oh you and me both. Which is why I rarely post anything before at least the middle of the following week - I need to let everything percolate, then then work out what I think about it. Mmmm, meta. <3

I've been considering what he found behind the door marked "11" and, while in the shower this morning, came up with a possible alternate idea
Your idea intrigues me, but... I can't see it. Not that the show isn't sneaky at times, but we have to trust that when something is shown to us, it is what it is. I mean... the simplest way of explaining the little girl in the spacesuit, who could regenerate, was that she was Amy and Rory's and would grow up to be River. And this was indeed the case. It's more the consequences that were important - the fact that their daughter was *stolen* and turned into a weapon... So I think that Room 11 was the Doctor's (partly because he reacted the same way everyone else reacted - pupils dilating - and partly because the writer speaking on Confidential, grinning evilly, said he was quite sure that people would now be endlessly discussing what was in the Doctor's room. :)

[need to cut since I've exceeded to word limit...]

[elisi]

based on what the Doctor said to try to destroy Amy's faith made him "face up" to himself and his flaws. If he can't believe in his own abilities ... we're kinda screwed.
Oh he's ALL bluster! Here, I shall let the mighty Moff speak for me (I love Moffat, I truly truly do):

"...[The Doctor is] just a lunatic who’s capering around trying to have lunch somewhere nice, and all these people think that he’s this massive, mighty foe... I think that’s a fun thing to play with. Because we know he isn’t. We know he hasn’t even got a plan. He can’t even drive the box. We know that’s not true. So I think that makes it a fun thing to play with. It’s a dangerous card for the Doctor to play because the more he makes his enemies fear him, the more powerful they will become in response to what is, in fact, an unarmed man who can’t drive."

From the podcast for Forest of the Dead, with Moffat, RTD and DT, talking about the moment when River whispers the Doctor's name in his ear:

Moffat: And I have to say, David, I think your performance in this is astonishing. There are two bits that are brilliant. It’s this, where you’re just flung back to being a man – you’re just an ordinary bloke for a minute – and this bit here where you shoulder the Doctor again… There we are, the mask back on!
RTD: You see how much the Doctor is-
Moffat: -is surface
RTD: -a pose
Moffat: It’s the interesting thing about the Doctor, isn’t it? What is it that’s special about him? In terms of writing him he’s not faster or stronger, actually. He can regenerate, which is pretty cool, but not all the time... and he’s superclever, but actually the people he’s up against are superclever, so it’s not that. I think it’s almost the power of the greatest gob in the universe – he can sort of talk his way, confidently, past anybody.
DT: Which he slightly abuses there because he’s been slightly undermined. He shouts too loudly and is a bit nasty to the team…
Moff: But look – they’re all confident in him now. [umming awing] He’s almost a charlatan – in a good cause! – he poses, doesn’t he? He makes it seem like he’s this god-like creature, and he kinda, really, there’s just a bloke under there.
RTD: Oh absolutely.
Moff: Which I think makes him great fun to write.

'Unarmed man who can't drive' might be my favourite description of the Doctor EVER. And this is very much what the season plays on - Moffat is trying to undo the whole 'Larger than life' persona, and (we hope) return the Doctor to be someone just capering around space, not someone great big warrior hero. :) Incidentally this is why I think River is so perfect for him - the very first lesson she learns is that the Doctor can't save her... He can't even save himself. So she has an extremely realistic understanding of him, which means that she admires the fact that he always tries to do the right thing, no matter what, even more. She never needs the speech he gives to Amy, because she knows exactly who he is.

[me-llamo-nic.livejournal.com]

That verse is actually quoted in 'Curse of Fenric'. Interestingly enough, that's not the end of the similarities between the two episodes.

Though I must say, I prefer C.S. Lewis' version: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." Which is more like what I took away from 'The Eleventh Hour'. This one totally harshes my fairytale. =P

Also, there are so many mirrors that I can't even see straight anymore.

[elisi]

That verse is actually quoted in 'Curse of Fenric'. Interestingly enough, that's not the end of the similarities between the two episodes.
I saw your post, but didn't read it, since I actually own The Curse of Fenric and intend to watch it, and I don't want to be spoiled. :)

Though I must say, I prefer C.S. Lewis' version: "When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I ADORE C.S.Lewis. <3

Which is more like what I took away from 'The Eleventh Hour'. This one totally harshes my fairytale. =P
Well we have two episodes left, so - unless things go very, very wrong - we should have our fairytale back at the end of the season! :) Plus, remember Rule 27: Never knowingly be serious!

Also, there are so many mirrors that I can't even see straight anymore.
*nods*

[pseu-trapd.livejournal.com]

Your meta breaks my brain, in a good way. Stuff like this makes me love DW even more than I already do and helps tie together all the threads that I couldn't gather myself.

Also, a simple but funny inversion: River is in the Stormcage while the Oncoming Storm hangs out with the Ponds.

[elisi]

Your meta breaks my brain, in a good way.
*beams and hands you super glue*

Stuff like this makes me love DW even more than I already do and helps tie together all the threads that I couldn't gather myself.
Allllll the mirrors! <3

Also, a simple but funny inversion: River is in the Stormcage while the Oncoming Storm hangs out with the Ponds.
Heeeeee! Oh that's brilliant!