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Brief Who thoughts.
The Doctor's Wife
I've tried to write down thoughts on this episode, honestly, but they just... don't work. 'Effulgent' is still the best description. I love the fact that they stole each other and the timey-wimey-ness of their interactions ('Goodbye'/'Hello' back to-front; 'Why is that word so sad? No. Will be sad...'; 'This is when we talked...' Oh show, breaking my heart with grammar and tenses). I love the confirmation that Timelords can change sex when they regenerate (which sheds a very interesting light on things, and explains a lot about the Doctor's general attitude to these things, actually). Loved Amy and Rory (but they'll get their own post). Loved how Eleven was so utterly heartbreaking, and yet his grief and loss wasn't the focus, and the last beat of the episode was him dancing. Really, loved it all, nothing to add.
The Rebel Flesh
Now this episode I do have thoughts on, especially since it ties in with the overarching themes, but I want to watch part 2 before I try to sort through it all (mirror, mirror, on the wall...). But! One thing I'm as sure of as I can possibly be: Ganger!Doctor is NOT the Doctor who gets killed in The Impossible Astronaut. (Much like I was certain that S5 would end with a wedding, even after Rory had been killed and removed from history.) Anyway, I am very curious about what the Doctor knows and isn't telling. Plus - I can't wait to see the Doctor trying to practice what he preaches, what with two of him there. Last time he had a clone, the poor chap got tossed into Pete's World after about three seconds' worth of interaction - this time I am expecting a lot of 'in a mirror, darkly' and so forth. And mutual bow-tie admiration. <3
I've tried to write down thoughts on this episode, honestly, but they just... don't work. 'Effulgent' is still the best description. I love the fact that they stole each other and the timey-wimey-ness of their interactions ('Goodbye'/'Hello' back to-front; 'Why is that word so sad? No. Will be sad...'; 'This is when we talked...' Oh show, breaking my heart with grammar and tenses). I love the confirmation that Timelords can change sex when they regenerate (which sheds a very interesting light on things, and explains a lot about the Doctor's general attitude to these things, actually). Loved Amy and Rory (but they'll get their own post). Loved how Eleven was so utterly heartbreaking, and yet his grief and loss wasn't the focus, and the last beat of the episode was him dancing. Really, loved it all, nothing to add.
The Rebel Flesh
Now this episode I do have thoughts on, especially since it ties in with the overarching themes, but I want to watch part 2 before I try to sort through it all (mirror, mirror, on the wall...). But! One thing I'm as sure of as I can possibly be: Ganger!Doctor is NOT the Doctor who gets killed in The Impossible Astronaut. (Much like I was certain that S5 would end with a wedding, even after Rory had been killed and removed from history.) Anyway, I am very curious about what the Doctor knows and isn't telling. Plus - I can't wait to see the Doctor trying to practice what he preaches, what with two of him there. Last time he had a clone, the poor chap got tossed into Pete's World after about three seconds' worth of interaction - this time I am expecting a lot of 'in a mirror, darkly' and so forth. And mutual bow-tie admiration. <3
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That idea never struck me, and now I'm really afraid that that's exactly what's going to happen. Then again, it doesn't seem like a very Moffat-like twist.
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Didn't strike me either - I picked it up from various reviews...
and now I'm really afraid that that's exactly what's going to happen. Then again, it doesn't seem like a very Moffat-like twist.
It really isn't. I mean, obviously that death is somehow going to be be undone, but not in that way. Again, too many unknowns for me to actually speculate, but bait-and-switch? Too cheap. (Also Ganger!Doctor looks CREEPY AS HELL! I somehow don't think he'd be happy falling on the proverbial sword.)
However, I am very much looking forward to seeing the Doctor interacting with himself - last time he tossed his clone into a parallel universe (with a few neat lies and Rose to snog) and we never got anything interesting out of it. Hurrah for dark mirrors! Darn, meant to put that in the post. *wanders off to edit*
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Yeah. Though one thing that I didn't quite like about the episode is that the gangers are clearly Other - they have all the memories of the originals, but they are still not Them. When Farscape did a similar thing they ended up with exact copies that were both the original, which opened up some really delicious ideas. But we'll see how they handle it.
However, I am very much looking forward to seeing the Doctor interacting with himself
Having just rewatched "Amy's Choice", I agree. "Only one person can hate me that much," etc. *walks off whistling Elvis Costello's "Deep Dark Truthful Mirror"*
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Ah but that's what I find interesting, and where Rory comes in:
Doctor: Why do you have to be so... human?
Auton!Rory: Because right now I'm not.
To what extent do our memories make us who we are? (I'm reminded of that throwaway line about humanity existing as download for about a million years, amongst other things.) Plus, the Doctor said that the Flesh was alive and *conscious*, reaching out to him (and he's clearly not telling everything he knows) - what does that mean? There's an endless pit of nature vs. nurture and so forth to delve into...
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yeah I don't think so either. Moff just... wouldn't. And from the previews it looks like ganger!Doctor is quite unstable. The Doctor in Utah wasn't.
My personal theory is that the Doctor makes a whole lot of bad mistakes here. Whether not he's been there before [I think he has] it seems like he knows what is supposed to happen in the monastery and is trying to rewrite history. And that will have repercussions down the road, culminating in his death.
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Your theory--I like it.
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Also, older!Doctor was regenerating. And Ganger!Doctor is made of 'the Flesh', not Timelord DNA.
it seems like he knows what is supposed to happen in the monastery and is trying to rewrite history.
You know, I've been thinking the very same thing! And it'd be so perfectly in character... Ten was all 'The Laws of time are mine AND THEY WILL OBEY ME!!!' whereas Eleven is just being exceedingly sly and not telling anyone what he knows. And is he's rewriting time (or trying to) then my guess is that it's a bit like Waters of Mars - that is, he knows how the story ends, but not the details, so he's trying to manipulate what's there to change the outcome.
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Yeah... the little things though, like him saying the exact thing Amy says at the same time, and telling Cleaves that they're at a cross roads and need to make the right choice... give me the suspicion that he's been here before, something terrible happened, and he's trying to prevent that. Possibly making it even worse in the process.
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*ponders* Well the Flesh is all stretchy and stuff, so I'm not sure how that'd work - but as you say, he probably gets killed off. So many lovely flashbacks to Amy's Choice. Mmmm Valeyard. Have you ever read Past, Present, And Future, btw? (The Doctor plays cards with who he was and who he could be. The Doctor (10th), The Doctor (1st), The Valeyard.) Fascinating.
the suspicion that he's been here before, something terrible happened, and he's trying to prevent that. Possibly making it even worse in the process.
*nods a lot* Or at least that he knows what happens. (Like I said - echoes of Mars, except this time we're in the dark too... Oh and DON'T SPOIL ME! I might have to avoid the internet entirely next week. /o\)
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Echoes of Mars sounds like a cool fic title. Or a band name.
>>I might have to avoid the internet entirely next week
I am for definitely avoiding Tumblr for the entire week proceeding the 7th episode... people on there have NO concept of spoiler tags!
Oh yeah, and I LOVE Waters of Mars, but the fact we're in the dark as to the Doctor's motivations here, makes it 10x better.
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It is verrry good. I mean, I just love the concept of the Valeyard, and Eleven seems much more likely to tip into that.
Echoes of Mars sounds like a cool fic title. Or a band name.
And now I want to write that fic...
I am for definitely avoiding Tumblr for the entire week proceeding the 7th episode... people on there have NO concept of spoiler tags!
Someone on my flist just got spoiled by Twitter. She is NOT HAPPY!
Oh yeah, and I LOVE Waters of Mars, but the fact we're in the dark as to the Doctor's motivations here, makes it 10x better.
Oh definitely. Plus Ten's 'motivations' were basically that he was having a nervous breakdown. Which was perfectly in character, but it was all about *him*, whereas here we don't even know what Eleven's thinking, so the focus is on what's happening...
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>>And now I want to write that fic...
Pls do :D
>>we don't even know what Eleven's thinking, so the focus is on what's happening...
I love that even the characters in MoffWho are puzzleboxes that need figuring out... kfjhdf brainfood fjklgj
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No.
I love that even the characters in MoffWho are puzzleboxes that need figuring out... kfjhdf brainfood fjklgj
Om nom nom nom.
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(Still no. Even though I have - whisper it - the Pokemon soundtrack... Miss M used to love that show when she was tiny.)
Also I don't have a clue what to write, which is a slight obstacle. Not to mention all the OTHER fic that I need to write first...
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Yes! Everyone hit the emotional tones exactly right. And that dancing at the end is the only way that episode could have ended.
Ganger!Doctor is NOT the Doctor who gets killed in The Impossible Astronaut.
Am curious as to why. (I half-believe Ganger!Doctor will be, know it isn't likely because it's too simple, but I want the mystery solved. The anticipation is driving me up a wall.)
Last time he had a clone, the poor chap got tossed into Pete's World after about three seconds' worth of interaction - this time I am expecting a lot of 'in a mirror, darkly' and so forth.
That's what makes me worried about the clone. A lot of people were saying, "oh, the Doctor's good. He won't mind." and I'm thinking, "What about TenII?" He certainly wasn't happy there…
(Thanks for the "avoid the Internet" spoiler warning. I'm half-glad I'll be visiting my sister for a week starting Friday and thus have little access to the Net, but at the same time annoyed because I'll be behind by a week, thanks to BBC America. >.< Avoiding spoilers is going to be… difficult.)
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The Doctor Dances...
Am curious as to why. (I half-believe Ganger!Doctor will be, know it isn't likely because it's too simple, but I want the mystery solved. The anticipation is driving me up a wall.)
Heh. And so say we all... Most of all, then it's the fact that you do NOT write a scene like that and take the audience for a ride. It'd be like fixing Donna's head - some things should be what they are, or they lose all impact. Like Rory dying in the Silurian episodes - he really did die, and the price for bringing him back was heavy. Imagine if instead it had been robot!Rory and all the pain and heartache in the following episodes had been a lie...
HOWEVER, as
That's what makes me worried about the clone. A lot of people were saying, "oh, the Doctor's good. He won't mind." and I'm thinking, "What about TenII?" He certainly wasn't happy there…
Well the TenToo situation was different in that he was human - I think he knew exactly what Ten was planning, but that doesn't mean it didn't sit awkwardly (which RTD does admit - esp re. Rose). It was partly because TenToo was... a plot point, something to tie up Rose's story and set up Donna's fate, which was of course the focus. Now we'll get a clone with agency of his own, which should prove rather delicious.
Thanks for the "avoid the Internet" spoiler warning. I'm half-glad I'll be visiting my sister for a week starting Friday and thus have little access to the Net, but at the same time annoyed because I'll be behind by a week, thanks to BBC America. >.< Avoiding spoilers is going to be… difficult.
My pleasure, and yeah, BBCA have not really thought things through very well...
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Got it now! And that makes far more sense than anything else. No longer believe it's Ganger!Doctor.
HOWEVER, as eilowyn says below, it could be that Ganger!Doctor is the one who kills him.
I like that theory!
Well the TenToo situation was different in that he was human
I think I'm in the extreme minority in how I view TenII. He may only have one heart and a human lifespan, but he's still mostly Time Lord. And I think part of the reason he was shoved off into the parallel universe (beyond the Rose plot-point) was so that the Doctor didn't have to confront himself every day. I've lost my train of thought… I don't know where I was going with this other than the fact that the Doctor is going to have to actually confront himself in 6.06.
Now we'll get a clone with agency of his own, which should prove rather delicious.
Yes-- it's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most!
BBCA have not really thought things through very well...
They did, actually. If they aired 6.06 this weekend, a significant portion of their viewers won't see it. (This weekend is the unofficial start of summer here, no matter that the holiday is to remember fallen soldiers, and many people travel.) I'd actually be one of them, because my sister doesn't have BBC America, and watches it through iTunes. Most viewers probably aren't in fandom, and thus don't really care it was pushed back by a week, and might actually be grateful for it. All of the logic aside, I'm still annoyed by it.
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:)
I like that theory!
Me too. It'd be... neat. But that presumes that Ganger!Doctor isn't killed off in the next episode...
I think I'm in the extreme minority in how I view TenII. He may only have one heart and a human lifespan, but he's still mostly Time Lord.
Oh oh oh! Go watch Signed, the Doctor. Srsly. A-mazing.
And I think part of the reason he was shoved off into the parallel universe (beyond the Rose plot-point) was so that the Doctor didn't have to confront himself every day.
Oh I am not disagreeing with that at all. ("...there's only one person in the universe who hates me as much as you do." By the way, have I mentioned how much I love Amy's Choice?) But - my point (which I didn't elaborate on) was that TenToo was a Timelord/human hybrid, and both parts of him are known quantities. Ganger!Doctor - well. That could get interesting... TenToo said: "I am the Doctor!" and destroyed the Daleks and Ten went 'Oh dear, you're really dangerous, Rose stop him going postal, byeeee!' Ganger!Doctor can't be gotten rid of, and considering how Eleven spent the whole of 'The Rebel Flesh' arguing that the gangers were REAL PEOPLE he has to acknowledge his other self... \o/
They did, actually. If they aired 6.06 this weekend, a significant portion of their viewers won't see it
I bow to your superior knowledge.
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It's just this perfect jewel of an episode. No meta, really, it just is. ♥
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Promethia had the same idea, and I rather love it! Although yes, it does depend on what happens...
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There is a nice shot of the Doctor reflected in the astronaut visor just before he's shot, so that could be telling.
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Well you said something about Ganger!Doctor surviving anyway.
Long day.
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Just didn't want to be taking credit for what wasn't mine.
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Ah yes. I don't think that'll happen (partly because I'm not sure Ganger!Doctor would be made of Timelord DNA), but it's a very good idea. (And now I'm back to wanting to shake the show...)
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(And now I'm back to wanting to shake the show...)
A good plan *shakes*
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Personally it's just that the Ganger!humans are all stretchy and stuff, and clearly not human, even though they're 'exact copies' - dunno if something else happened to Ganger!Doctor, but presumably he's also made of Flesh... I mean, he's all white and stuff.
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But, basically I'm just in 'wait and see' mode, so . . . *shrug*
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why are people assuming that the Doctor's Time Lord-y-ness shouldn't be replicable?
Isn't that the reason for burning the body in TIA? I can't remember the exact words, but doesnt older!Canton tell Amy, Rory and River how dangerous his DNA could be if it got into the wrong hands?
What if that's what created the Flesh in the first place and is what he's gone back to fix somehow?
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Hmmm. I definitely agree that he's trying to fix some piece of history or other (whether a fixed point or not remains to be seen), but throwing something specifically Timelord-y into the mix could be an interesting twist.
*ponderponderponder*