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Meta: Why Ten is like Wesley.
I have had what I can only describe as a backwards epiphany. And I’ve even managed to think up an metaphor for it...
The thing is, that for years I’ve been saying that Ten is *broken*, and damaged. (This is not exactly news, just look at ‘Handlebars’). But for me it was like a tune that I knew well. I fitted Ten beautifully, but I was sure I’d heard it somewhere before. I thought maybe it was Angel’s tune, and certainly there are similarities, but Angel’s tune fits Jack much better. I thought it might be Buffy’s, but that wasn’t quite it either, despite certain overlaps. And then yesterday, I suddenly realised what the words to that tune were, and - they were Wesley’s:
When you strip everything else away, the self thatWes Ten is left with is like glass; sharp, brittle. Damaged. Wes Ten has the potential to snap. More than potential, even.
Those are the words that have been in the back of my head whenever I’ve thought of Ten. And oh, it doesn’t end there...
The above description is taken from what might be the best Wesley meta ever, by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ascian3, in her review/analysis of Lineage. I’ll just cut and paste and let the words speak for themselves:
Here's the thing about Wesley: he's gorgeous when he's desperate. It's not until he lets himself go that he's really everything he could be (sharp, coldly efficient, deadly) and he doesn't let himself go until there's literally nothing left. We saw glimpses of it when he was interrogating the robot. He was threatening to blow up the building, himself included, and he meant every word of it. When you strip everything else away, the self that Wes is left with is like glass; sharp, brittle. Damaged. Wes has the potential to snap. More than potential, even - keeping a woman in your closet for the summer is not the action of a sane man. Most of the time he's not that guy, but he's been there. He can be.
[...]
Wes is capable of giving everything he is and has and believes in, under the right circumstances. It's horribly powerful and terribly dangerous, because under the right kind of pressure Wes can do things. Like lock a woman in his closet. Like blowing up the building, and himself with it. Like stealing a child from its father. His intentions are good but it hardly matters, because at the edge of his tolerance Wes would probably burn the world to reach them. He has all the power of utter desperation at his fingertips, and it's never very far away.
I could rewrite this thing word for word, just changing the specifics. Like, say, ‘locking up your enemies for eternity is not the action of a sane man’.
Really, just take a moment to compare Wesley and Justine, and Ten and The Family of Blood. Or... imagine that Ten had been able to keep the Master. (“I’ll take away your bucket.”) I do worry that maybe I've read too much dark!fic, but... "He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord. [...] He still visits my little sister once a year every year." Oh Ten. You really were monumentally screwed up.
Anyway, the line that stands out is this (let me just change the name):
His intentions are good but it hardly matters, because at the edge of his tolerance Ten would probably burn the world to reach them.
If that isn’t one of the best descriptions of Waters of Mars ever, I don’t know what is. It's horribly powerful and terribly dangerous. And oh, it kept us spellbound...
But there’s more. Let’s talk about love for a minute. This is fromthe_royal_anna’s post on AHitW/Shells:
Of course Wes will help Illyria. I talked about this lots after Lineage, but he has this overriding need to save. And there’s always been this battle in him, because he longs to find something good, something pure, something beautiful to save, something that will lift him beyond himself. But how can he save what is better than him? He needs something less than him, something more broken than him, something that needs saving.
And there, in a nutshell, we have Rose and the Master. (And maybe the Master’s brokenness is one of the things that so attracts the Doctor? An eternal project...)
I shall now do a little show and tell, because this bit of dialogue is just too prefect not to play with. Plus, I think it’s important to note, with both Ten and Wes, that although they’re ready to put their life on the line (in rather unhealthy ways) if necessary, they’re not actually suicidal. They don’t want to die, and although the pain and loss often seems too much to bear, they still know that life is good (“And since I don't actually intend to die tonight, I won't accept a lie.”/“I don’t want to go.”). Like this, see:
(I'm sure I don't need to point out that I'm well aware that there are many differences between them too, such as the fact that Ten doesn't tend to shoot people in the face, to mention just one. My point is that they're broken in the same way.)
And finally, I shall return once more toascian3’s post. These are her final words:
Wes needs to learn how to stop clutching so desperately to the people around him. If he could just breathe a little, just learn to let go without letting go, he'd be okay.
And... hello Eleven! :)
ETA: One more thing. Fromyhlee's review of TGiQ:
"I can't believe I forgot how Denisof as Wesley can stand there and exude pain. It's like a superpower."
I rest my case.
The thing is, that for years I’ve been saying that Ten is *broken*, and damaged. (This is not exactly news, just look at ‘Handlebars’). But for me it was like a tune that I knew well. I fitted Ten beautifully, but I was sure I’d heard it somewhere before. I thought maybe it was Angel’s tune, and certainly there are similarities, but Angel’s tune fits Jack much better. I thought it might be Buffy’s, but that wasn’t quite it either, despite certain overlaps. And then yesterday, I suddenly realised what the words to that tune were, and - they were Wesley’s:
When you strip everything else away, the self that
Those are the words that have been in the back of my head whenever I’ve thought of Ten. And oh, it doesn’t end there...
The above description is taken from what might be the best Wesley meta ever, by
ascian3, in her review/analysis of Lineage. I’ll just cut and paste and let the words speak for themselves:Here's the thing about Wesley: he's gorgeous when he's desperate. It's not until he lets himself go that he's really everything he could be (sharp, coldly efficient, deadly) and he doesn't let himself go until there's literally nothing left. We saw glimpses of it when he was interrogating the robot. He was threatening to blow up the building, himself included, and he meant every word of it. When you strip everything else away, the self that Wes is left with is like glass; sharp, brittle. Damaged. Wes has the potential to snap. More than potential, even - keeping a woman in your closet for the summer is not the action of a sane man. Most of the time he's not that guy, but he's been there. He can be.
[...]
Wes is capable of giving everything he is and has and believes in, under the right circumstances. It's horribly powerful and terribly dangerous, because under the right kind of pressure Wes can do things. Like lock a woman in his closet. Like blowing up the building, and himself with it. Like stealing a child from its father. His intentions are good but it hardly matters, because at the edge of his tolerance Wes would probably burn the world to reach them. He has all the power of utter desperation at his fingertips, and it's never very far away.
I could rewrite this thing word for word, just changing the specifics. Like, say, ‘locking up your enemies for eternity is not the action of a sane man’.
Really, just take a moment to compare Wesley and Justine, and Ten and The Family of Blood. Or... imagine that Ten had been able to keep the Master. (“I’ll take away your bucket.”) I do worry that maybe I've read too much dark!fic, but... "He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord. [...] He still visits my little sister once a year every year." Oh Ten. You really were monumentally screwed up.
Anyway, the line that stands out is this (let me just change the name):
His intentions are good but it hardly matters, because at the edge of his tolerance Ten would probably burn the world to reach them.
If that isn’t one of the best descriptions of Waters of Mars ever, I don’t know what is. It's horribly powerful and terribly dangerous. And oh, it kept us spellbound...
But there’s more. Let’s talk about love for a minute. This is from
the_royal_anna’s post on AHitW/Shells:Of course Wes will help Illyria. I talked about this lots after Lineage, but he has this overriding need to save. And there’s always been this battle in him, because he longs to find something good, something pure, something beautiful to save, something that will lift him beyond himself. But how can he save what is better than him? He needs something less than him, something more broken than him, something that needs saving.
And there, in a nutshell, we have Rose and the Master. (And maybe the Master’s brokenness is one of the things that so attracts the Doctor? An eternal project...)
I shall now do a little show and tell, because this bit of dialogue is just too prefect not to play with. Plus, I think it’s important to note, with both Ten and Wes, that although they’re ready to put their life on the line (in rather unhealthy ways) if necessary, they’re not actually suicidal. They don’t want to die, and although the pain and loss often seems too much to bear, they still know that life is good (“And since I don't actually intend to die tonight, I won't accept a lie.”/“I don’t want to go.”). Like this, see:
(I'm sure I don't need to point out that I'm well aware that there are many differences between them too, such as the fact that Ten doesn't tend to shoot people in the face, to mention just one. My point is that they're broken in the same way.)
And finally, I shall return once more to
ascian3’s post. These are her final words:Wes needs to learn how to stop clutching so desperately to the people around him. If he could just breathe a little, just learn to let go without letting go, he'd be okay.
And... hello Eleven! :)
ETA: One more thing. From
yhlee's review of TGiQ:"I can't believe I forgot how Denisof as Wesley can stand there and exude pain. It's like a superpower."
I rest my case.
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just...totally. Yes.
>>And maybe the Master’s brokenness is one of the things that so attracts the Doctor? An eternal project...
Oh yes. He's a classic co-dependant there. "Fixing" other people so he doesn't have to deal with his own fucked up-ness. Some people think it was out of character for Ten to give that offer to the Master, but I don't...
Oy, poor Ten.
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just...totally. Yes.
I know, right? (It all just fell into place...)
Oh yes. He's a classic co-dependant there. "Fixing" other people so he doesn't have to deal with his own fucked up-ness.
Ooooh yes.
Some people think it was out of character for Ten to give that offer to the Master, but I don't...
Are you kidding? It's the most Ten-ish thing EVER! (And once again, I rec Pendulum. Ten, in a nutshell!)
Oy, poor Ten.
Yeah, that's what I keep coming back to as well. Poor, poor Ten.
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i love it when that happens<3
I'm itching for s6 of DW in good part because I've analyzed s5 beyond death, and I'm craving those "Oohhh" moments...
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And...it's the first thing I've ever read that's made me want to re-watch the later seasons of Angel...
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*beams* I felt terribly clever all of a sudden...
And...it's the first thing I've ever read that's made me want to re-watch the later seasons of Angel...
Really? That pleases me muchly! *loves the later seasons of Angel far too much*
ETA: Oh, and thank you for the pimp! *blushes*
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But interestingly...the only thing in the entire last two seasons that I did not hate was Wesley's death in the last episode. It was profoundly moving and beautifully done and just perfect. Wesley's telling Illyria that he doesn't want her to pretend to be Fred because "the first lesson a Watcher learns is to separate truth from illusion" - and then when he's dying he tells Ilyria he wants her to lie to him now...I get teary-eyed just thinking about it, and I watched it once 5 years ago!
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comment-stalking
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Weirdly, I used to compare Wes with Donna instead. For one, they're both my favorite on their respective show. Also, at the beginning both of them are unlikable enough but by their tragic "end" they broke my heart to tiny pieces. Lastly, their arrogant façace hids deep insecurities. And a somewhat problematic rapport with their father/mother... Mmh...
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0_o indeed...
Weirdly, I used to compare Wes with Donna instead. For one, they're both my favorite on their respective show. Also, at the beginning both of them are unlikable enough but by their tragic "end" they broke my heart to tiny pieces. Lastly, their arrogant façace hids deep insecurities. And a somewhat problematic rapport with their father/mother... Mmh...
I would never have thought to compare them, but now you point it out - yeah, there might be something there.
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There are similarities to their brokenness, certainly. Heaps and heaps of self-loathing. Perhaps in part because of their daddy issues, if by 'daddy' I can mean the Time Lords, in the Doctor's case.
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\o/
There are similarities to their brokenness, certainly. Heaps and heaps of self-loathing.
Ooooh yes. And their morality, which inevitably leads them to dark places...
Perhaps in part because of their daddy issues, if by 'daddy' I can mean the Time Lords, in the Doctor's case.
*nods a lot* "Tell me, father, what is it that galls you so, that I was never as good at the job as you... or that I just might be better?"
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It's interesting; I was really irritated back in the day when they killed of Doyle (who I loved) for Wesley of all people. Then he went and just got all dark and awesome.
::hugs this meta::
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They do break very, very beautifully...
It's interesting; I was really irritated back in the day when they killed of Doyle (who I loved) for Wesley of all people. Then he went and just got all dark and awesome.
This is where my viewing history is v. interesting, since the first time I ever saw Wesley (didn't watch S3 of BtVS when it was broadcast), was in Home. And oh, that scene with Lilah made me fall for him immediately! (That said, when I went back and watched the whole show, I was very sad to see Doyle leave so swiftly.)
::hugs this meta::
Awwwww. ::hugs you::
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But how can he save what is better than him? He needs something less than him, something more broken than him, something that needs saving.
YES. YES. And this is why I love Wes, really - of COURSE he'll take Illyria in. He relates to people (or not-people) who are alone. He is the consummate outsider. And yes, there is that hugely selfish aspect of that - wanting to 'save' the other - but it's just amazing how big an impact he has on these people who are damned, irredeemable, wretched. (Lilah also joining Illyria here.) He makes them *human*. And he has no idea.
They don’t want to die, and although the pain and loss often seems too much to bear, they still know that life is good (“And since I don't actually intend to die tonight, I won't accept a lie.”/“I don’t want to go.”)
THIS. I see so much talk of how Wes was suicidal or whatever there at the end, but it's such a misunderstanding of him. He wanted to live. He was sincere. He didn't give up. Not ever. Not even through the periods of his life when he sincerely believed not a soul on the planet would miss him. And I mean, I have huge personal reasons to find that deeply moving, and as popular as Wes is, it's never not disheartening to see him getting flak for being ~unpleasant~ or ~whiny during that period (after, you know, nearly being murdered twice and then getting kicked out from his family group). Meh.
OH LOOK EMOTION VOMIT. Must be a great post. ;)
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LOL!
And yes, there is that hugely selfish aspect of that - wanting to 'save' the other - but it's just amazing how big an impact he has on these people who are damned, irredeemable, wretched. (Lilah also joining Illyria here.) He makes them *human*. And he has no idea.
You know, there is a case to be made for Lilah = the Master. The fact that they had something good, and Wes/the Doctor then couldn't save them. And, indeed, they didn't want to be saved. ("But it matters that you tried." *heartbreaks*) Um, that was a tangent. Anyway, yes.
THIS. I see so much talk of how Wes was suicidal or whatever there at the end, but it's such a misunderstanding of him. He wanted to live. He was sincere. He didn't give up. Not ever. Not even through the periods of his life when he sincerely believed not a soul on the planet would miss him.
*nods a lot* This is why I addressed it specifically, because it's an important part of who they are - and it's so often overlooked.
And I mean, I have huge personal reasons to find that deeply moving, and as popular as Wes is, it's never not disheartening to see him getting flak for being ~unpleasant~ or ~whiny during that period (after, you know, nearly being murdered twice and then getting kicked out from his family group). Meh.
Ooooh, I know what you mean - and yet what he did was pretty unforgivable. Conundrum is conundrummy and delicious.
OH LOOK EMOTION VOMIT. Must be a great post. ;)
Heeeeeeeeee! ♥
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Not a connection I would have come up with myself but I think that's more due to a lack of Wes at the moment (haven't watch BtVS or AtS in far to long!)
Very good :)
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:)
Not a connection I would have come up with myself but I think that's more due to a lack of Wes at the moment (haven't watch BtVS or AtS in far to long!)
Yeah, it's been a while for me too. And it really isn't an obvious connection, until after it's been made...
Thank you lots for reading!
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worlduniverse in his broken state. (Not to say I wasn't scared of/for Wesley, but Wesley wasn't a Time Lord with a TARDIS.)I liked Ten a lot, but I was extremely relieved when he finally regenerated. And I'd been feeling that way for seasons, not just for the post-season four specials that really emphasized that arc of his development.
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*So* much yes to everything you say. I mean, I loved Ten, and found him fascinating to watch, but he always had control issues. I keep coming back to
Now, to the meat, the gristle in the teeth, the I TOLD YOU SO moment of the show - the Doctor's treatment of The Family. I've said over and over again that this Doctor is much darker, almost unhinged and probably slightly sociopathic than Nine ever could hope to be. We are starting to see the overt manifestation of "no second chances" and my god, is it *delicious*. I get the impression he's trembling on the knife-point of completely losing control and the cracks in his facade are widening. [...] I think a full-out Time Lord meltdown would bring down galaxies and that's always lurking just below the surface with this Doctor.
(And there's a reason 'Handlebars' is the Tenth Doctor vid...)
And I, too, was eager for regeneration - partly just because Ten was clearly so *broken*, so *hurt*, that it seemed the kindest thing to just put him out of his misery, y'know? Plus, the nearer we got the end, the more dangerous he became, which only re-enforced it, because the Doctor shouldn't be someone you're afraid of.
Anyway, thank you for reading and sharing your thoughts. :)
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Just two points.
About Family of Blood. I saw Remembrance of the Daleks with 7th and was amazed by the similarities of their reactions, that cold seething rage and sadistic way of destroying the enemy (the way 7th brought the last Dalek to suicide - shudder), and the cause was the same - someone wanted to steal Timelord power for themselves.
That made me think that it could be the worst crime in the eyes of a Timelord, could be the trigger to make ANY of them to flip out like that.
Another similarity between 10th and 7th was that at that point they represented highest Timelord authority. 7th was President Elect or something, and Ten was the only one left. So they had to punish the enemy according to the crime...
And by the way - I yet have to see a SANE Timelord. So far I saw Doctor (4,7,9,10,11), Master, Rani, Rassilon. Doctor is the sanest of them all, from our POV, and that only because he hangs around with humans...
OK, the point was - what Ten did with Family of Blood seemed to me giving in to his Timelord nature more than him going insane. I.e. it was him being a proper Timelord rather than being a broken Timelord. And the whole episode was about Human vs. Timelord... And that's why Joan refused him. And damn, he was creepy and almost obscene when he talked to Joan about coming with him...
I see Ten's tragedy and source of his brokenness as trying to be TOO human. His is a bit of a Little Mermaid's tale (especially the very end, OMG!). For a "normal" Timelord (and again, I don't think any of them are normal from our POV), most of what he did when flipping out *was* the norm and wouldn't cause any qualms.
Latching on to humans after Time War because there was nothing left to ground him from the Timelord side - that's what made him so clingy.
Yes, those words fit Ten so well!
Wes needs to learn how to stop clutching so desperately to the people around him. If he could just breathe a little, just learn to let go without letting go, he'd be okay.
Another point... Taking away Master's bucket. Hmm, not sure it would went that way, not after what I saw in End of Time, where they managed real connection. They are frenemies and know each other for too long for Ten to unload on Master like that. As for him obsessing over fixing Master - with just two of them left, it was more of Time War guilt and trying to save the last piece of Gallifrey after destroying everything else, than personally about Master.
And those words of Wes to Illyria, about what is left living for - OMG! Yes, so perfectly Ten!
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That made me think that it could be the worst crime in the eyes of a Timelord, could be the trigger to make ANY of them to flip out like that.
*ponders* I had not thought of those two stories together. Although Family of Blood was originally a Seven story, adapted for Ten (adapted a lot). Ultimately, then no, I don't think they relate - Ten doesn't flip put because of what they want, but because of the fallout. The human deaths, his own 'life' and 'death' as John Smith, his loss of Joan. John Smith (like all the humans) is helpless in the face of these strange foes, a helpless victim - the Doctor isn't, and they get a punishment that is far, far out of proportion to their crime. See this post of
Another similarity between 10th and 7th was that at that point they represented highest Timelord authority. 7th was President Elect or something, and Ten was the only one left. So they had to punish the enemy according to the crime...
No, Seven was only the official emissary. (I think they offered Five the presidency. He turned it down.) With Ten, it all comes to a head in WoM of course - 'The Laws of Time are *mine*!' But Seven still has them breathing down his neck. (Eleven is so very much like Seven, except as a dotty grandfather. Eleven plots. Eleven lies. Eleven manipulates. Mmmm, Seven is my favourite after Eleven. <3) (Although above all, Eleven is kind. And joyfully mad.) Btw. I've not watched all of Seven yet - am saving him up - but wrote an essay for "Chicks Unravel Time' about Season 25, the one that begins with Remembrance.
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And by the way - I yet have to see a SANE Timelord. So far I saw Doctor (4,7,9,10,11), Master, Rani, Rassilon. Doctor is the sanest of them all, from our POV, and that only because he hangs around with humans...
LOL. Most of them are just dull?
OK, the point was - what Ten did with Family of Blood seemed to me giving in to his Timelord nature more than him going insane. I.e. it was him being a proper Timelord rather than being a broken Timelord. And the whole episode was about Human vs. Timelord... And that's why Joan refused him. And damn, he was creepy and almost obscene when he talked to Joan about coming with him...
Oooooh, do you like dark!fic? Like... seriously disturbing stuff yet oh so plausible? (Doctor/Rose. No sex or anything like that. Just 100% disturbing - love can be a terribly dangerous thing.)
and explode into space. Summary: "I'll have to settle down. With a house or something - a proper house with, with, with doors and things - carpets! Me! Living in a house! Now that, that - that is terrifying." An Impossible Planet AU.
I see Ten's tragedy and source of his brokenness as trying to be TOO human.
Yessssssssssssssss. *does the Numfar dance of joy* KNEW you'd get it.
His is a bit of a Little Mermaid's tale (especially the very end, OMG!).
Ooooh, perfect. Yes. I have a ton of meta about Ten trying to be human - and how the failure is inbuilt - but most of it is about Eleven also, so still spoilery. (Eleven is far more alien than Ten. Which of course is good [for him], because it's not healthy to be broken.)
For a "normal" Timelord (and again, I don't think any of them are normal from our POV), most of what he did when flipping out *was* the norm and wouldn't cause any qualms
Time Lords don't flip out... At the induction ceremony for the Academy all Time Lords said: "I swear to protect the ancient Law of Gallifrey with all my might and brain. I will to the end of my days, with justice and with honour temper my actions and my thoughts." (Source: Shada) There's a reason the Doctor is a renegade, and the Time Lords often use him for difficult missions.
Latching on to humans after Time War because there was nothing left to ground him from the Timelord side - that's what made him so clingy.
Absolutely. Earth sort of became his home-from-home. And RTD's seasons are very Earth-centric.
Another point... Taking away Master's bucket. Hmm, not sure it would went that way, not after what I saw in End of Time, where they managed real connection.
I was thinking more Last of the Time Lords ("So you're just going to... keep me?"). This is where I want to throw my AU at you (because I explore how they might be able to co-exist), but I've given you enough reading material already. *g*
As for him obsessing over fixing Master - with just two of them left, it was more of Time War guilt and trying to save the last piece of Gallifrey after destroying everything else, than personally about Master.
Oh totally. (I draw big sparkly hearts around all of the Doctor/Mater in EoT. Which is good, because the rest of the plot makes no sense... *g*)
And those words of Wes to Illyria, about what is left living for - OMG! Yes, so perfectly Ten!
Crazy, isn't it? (Coming to [Rusty's] Doctor Who after Buffy was the most perfect fit.)
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