elisi: Edwin and Charles (Slayer by kathyh.)
elisi ([personal profile] elisi) wrote2005-06-23 10:30 am

Thoughts on 'The Wish'.

Watched ‘The Wish’ last night - and what do you know? Some rambling followed.

This episode is a fascinating look at the characters... it made me think an awful lot. Originally I just wanted to watch it for Buffy - all this talk of how Buffy turned into a complete bitch in later seasons - how much of a basis is there for that theory in ‘The Wish’? Not sure if I actually came to any conclusions, but here are my thoughts - ordered by character:


The Master: I never really liked him in S1, but here he’s delightful - the scene where he drinks what I presume is blood out of a teeny little cappuccino cup? Adored it. It’s all about the power for him, and I think in some ways his outlook is very much like Wolfram & Hart - lets use what the humans have created to destroy the world.

Willow: Vamp!Willow is interesting - she was obviously vamped when she was still shy, little nerdy Willow and is very playful - enjoying her power, enjoying being everything she was not. Very much like William actually. She’s let all the stuff she suppressed come to the surface. But although she is deviant and very unpleasant I didn’t find her all that scary - comparing her with Dark!Willow she's a much lighter baddie, if you can see what I mean. Dark!Willow is full of anger and hate and rage - she doesn’t play. Willow went through a lot in the years that separate her from Vamp!Willow and it shows - there is a darkness to her that’s very different.

Xander: Oh, Xander - now him I found chilling. NB does nasty very, very well. We saw some of it in ‘The Pack’, but it’s fully fledged here. Vamp!Xander is not playful - he’s more calculating. He enjoys watching. All the daftness of human Xander have vanished, leaving a cold, brutal killer. Vamp!Xander is an Angelus in the making, and under the guidance of The Master he would have been exceptional. All of which made me wonder - where is all that in human Xander? It’s a side we rarely - if ever - see. Which I guess is something that ties him to Angel again... who - looking at Liam - could have guessed at what lay inside?

Angel: I don’t know if I could have loved Angel more in this episode. I mean look at this bit of dialogue:
Angel: I waited. I waited here for you. But you never... I was supposed to help you. [...] The Master rose. He let me live... to punish me. I kept hoping maybe you'd come. My destiny.
My destiny!!!!! I just wanted to hug him. The only character to be *exactly* the same! ::loves:: (I don’t think I can say any more - I mean what more is there to say? Except that he looked really hot! Mmmm, eye candy!)

Buffy: Oh, but she’s an interesting one. This is Buffy without friends and family - Buffy the Vampire Slayer with everything stripped away. Buffy who’s only the Slayer, not the girl as well. But it’s fascinating to see how ‘Buffy’ she is anyway:

She doesn’t take orders - is not an obedient little Slayer like Kendra:
Giles (on the phone to Buffy’s Watcher): Yes, I understand, but it's imperative that I see her. Here. (listens) Well... when will you? (listens) Yeah, well, you are her Watcher. I'd expect her to at least check in to...
She doesn’t sit around waiting, she makes a plan and implements it straight away. She’s good at taking advantage of unexpected help (Angel). And very good at slaying of course.

It’s the other things that stand out though:
Buffy: World is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing doesn't change that.
She’s very weary and disillusioned. She doesn't have Faith’s joy of life. She slays because that’s what she’s good at - it’s her duty, her life. If she met Dracula and he told her she was a killer, she’d just shrug. Of course she’s a killer.

How does she compare to S6 - S7 Buffy? I’m not sure... There is a hardness to her, that we very seldom see on the show. The real Buffy is torn - in ‘Selfless’ she shuts down into that hard core, so she can kill Anya - but Wishverse Buffy would never need to - she’s there already. Which of course gets her killed. Because Spike was right (as he very often is) - it’s her ties to the world that keep her alive. And in S6 and S7 she fights very hard to keep hold of those ties - to keep hold of her life. She can be harsh and cruel when she gets desperate, but I think this is because of who she is and what she is. There is that hard core inside her that she can fall back on - if she has to, she can strip everything away. And it isn’t pretty, but it gets the job done. And that’s what matters. It’s how she killed Angel.

But I don't think that she wants to be that Buffy - the cold, cruel one. She wants to be happy and to be loved. It's just that as life gets harder and harder, and her calling continually forces her to maker ever more difficult choices, she has to fight all the more to keep hold of Buffy-the-girl.


Did any of that make sense? I just feel like I was waffling. Now I’d love for all you clever people to bring up lots of excellent points that I’d never even though of. :)

shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 09:47 am (UTC)(link)
Don't know if I really have anything to add - great analysis, especially of Buffy and Xander.

I think we see very little of that controlling aspect on Xander on the show, but it does emerge somewhat in the way he views the women in his life - all of them - as being his somehow. Of course, all the women in his life are more powerful than he is, so that dark side of him never gets a chance to come out.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 10:12 am (UTC)(link)
There's definitely a nasty element of bullying in Xander's behaviour towards Spike in season 6- especially in Normal Again and Entropy. It comes across as that he feels bad because of what happened with Anya and he just takes his feelings out on the one person he knows can't fight back. He's his father's son after all.

However, instead of dealing with this, ME chose to bury it, which was sort of sad. I'd rather have seen Xander acknowledge it and deal - which needn't have meant apologising to Spike or anything. Maybe we're supposed to take the fact that he didn't behave that way in season 7 as him dealing with it, I don't know.

[identity profile] petzipellepingo.livejournal.com 2005-06-23 10:16 am (UTC)(link)
It comes across as that he feels bad because of what happened with Anya and he just takes his feelings out on the one person he knows can't fight back. He's his father's son after all. Nods. Oh yeah, I agree with everything both of you have said here especially Vamp Xander.

kathyh: (Kathyh Buffy)

[personal profile] kathyh 2005-06-23 10:28 am (UTC)(link)
Fascinating analysis. I loved your points about the differences in Vamp!Willow and Dark!Willow and this

Vamp!Xander is an Angelus in the making, and under the guidance of The Master he would have been exceptional. All of which made me wonder - where is all that in human Xander? It’s a side we rarely - if ever - see. Which I guess is something that ties him to Angel again... who - looking at Liam - could have guessed at what lay inside?

That's really interesting. I've never thought of similarities between Xander and Liam, but I wonder if their common characteristic is anger. Xander buries it, but it is there, and it can burst out in some quite nasty ways i.e. with Buffy in Dead Man's Party and Anya and Spike in Entropy. Liam always strikes me as an angry young man too, both with his father and with his life.

[identity profile] petzipellepingo.livejournal.com 2005-06-23 10:46 am (UTC)(link)
Plus we have the famous pat on the shoulder in Lies. A gesture Season 6 Xander would never, never have made especially after Entropy.
I also think part of Xander's hateful behavior towards Spike was because he feared that once again Buffy would prefer the company of Dead Boy to his own. Of course we know that indeed she does and that really sets off Xander into full blown Spike hatred and disgust.
He always wanted to be more to Buffy than a friend and in his opinion, she just couldn't see the real him over the Undead.

[identity profile] petzipellepingo.livejournal.com 2005-06-23 10:47 am (UTC)(link)
That's the work of [livejournal.com profile] mrmonkeybottoms.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 10:48 am (UTC)(link)
I still wish we could have seen the moment when Buffy asked him to let Spike move in with him. It needn't have been much - just something in Selfless when Buffy and Xander are hunting the spider demon. She's asks him, we get a reaction shot and then straight into the action.

I'd have preferred that to the fait accompli that we actually did get.

I know there were reasons why NB didn't get much to do in season 7, but there were so many of those little grace notes that ME used to be so good at that we just didn't get in season 7.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 12:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but I'm not really talking about things like that. The life going on in the background happens in every season (except maybe 6 where it's all terribly claustrophobic) but there were too many important things that just got left out in season 7, and that never happened before.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 12:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I'm glad for you. Maybe I'll like it better next time, who knows?

It still has some of my favourite BtVS moments, but they're exclusively centered round Spike, except for Selfless. In other seasons, I found things to like about the other characters too, in season 7, not so much.
fishsanwitt: (Touched (love))

[personal profile] fishsanwitt 2005-06-23 01:13 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm waiting for the all the clever people too :)

This made *perfect* sense. I love it when you dissect an episode. It makes me want to go and watch the episodes again.

Thank you! ::hugs::
kathyh: (Kathyh Angel dragon)

[personal profile] kathyh 2005-06-23 01:25 pm (UTC)(link)
but with a lot of anger - particularly aimed at his father.

Yup, they both had huge father issues. As you say though Xander had his friends and it doesn't appear as if Liam did.

I knew someone would have something clever to say about it.

I never have anything clever to say!
kathyh: (Kathyh domestic)

[personal profile] kathyh 2005-06-23 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Nah, it's the heat. It just agitated my brain cells briefly *g*.
shapinglight: (Default)

[personal profile] shapinglight 2005-06-23 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Will always love Sleeper. It's one of my favourite Spike-centric episodes.

[identity profile] annabelle528.livejournal.com 2005-06-23 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't have anything to add, but I love reading your ideas and everyone else's insightful comments. :)

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