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Joss & RTD.
Some thoughts that have been in my mind recently, partly inspired by this interview with RTD. (MAJOR spoilers for Day 4 of CoE!!!!)
Now there is that famous quote of Joss', about giving fans what they need, not what they want. Does anyone actually know where that comes from? I mean, he *did* actually say that, right?
I think the problem with that quote is that it's very superior, very paternal. 'I know what's best for you, even though it hurts' kinda thing, and (because of various similarities in their story telling styles I suppose) I think that this attitude has, in the fandom hive mind, been transferred to RTD. But I'm not sure that's actually accurate. From this interview (spoilers for CoE), these quotes stood out for me:
"No, to be honest, we don't take fan thinking into consideration. Certainly not with casting, certainly not with script. That's never an issue and never will be, I think."
"As writers the story dictates we go in a certain direction, so we have to follow that direction. We don't sit there deciding how light or how dark something should be. I don't even understand these terms -- literally. When we're talking about the script, the editing, or we're talking about the story, we don't talk about that for a second. We're just honest with the story. "
I said to![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hexyhex yesterday that what RTD cares about is telling stories. If people like it - fantastic. If not... well, tough luck. As he says:
"But if you can’t handle drama you shouldn’t watch it. Find something else. Go look at poetry. Poetry’s wonderful."
Yes it's very dismissive, but I have to respect his artistic integrity. It's his story, and he'll stand by it.
ETA: I should maybe point out that I'm perfectly aware that RTD has his limitations as a writer, esp his tendency to go the 'Everything can be fixed by reversing the polarity of the neutron flow' route. The fact that he *didn't* do that in CoE is one of the reasons I like it so much.
ETA: Spoilers in comments.
Now there is that famous quote of Joss', about giving fans what they need, not what they want. Does anyone actually know where that comes from? I mean, he *did* actually say that, right?
I think the problem with that quote is that it's very superior, very paternal. 'I know what's best for you, even though it hurts' kinda thing, and (because of various similarities in their story telling styles I suppose) I think that this attitude has, in the fandom hive mind, been transferred to RTD. But I'm not sure that's actually accurate. From this interview (spoilers for CoE), these quotes stood out for me:
"No, to be honest, we don't take fan thinking into consideration. Certainly not with casting, certainly not with script. That's never an issue and never will be, I think."
"As writers the story dictates we go in a certain direction, so we have to follow that direction. We don't sit there deciding how light or how dark something should be. I don't even understand these terms -- literally. When we're talking about the script, the editing, or we're talking about the story, we don't talk about that for a second. We're just honest with the story. "
I said to
hexyhex yesterday that what RTD cares about is telling stories. If people like it - fantastic. If not... well, tough luck. As he says:"But if you can’t handle drama you shouldn’t watch it. Find something else. Go look at poetry. Poetry’s wonderful."
Yes it's very dismissive, but I have to respect his artistic integrity. It's his story, and he'll stand by it.
ETA: I should maybe point out that I'm perfectly aware that RTD has his limitations as a writer, esp his tendency to go the 'Everything can be fixed by reversing the polarity of the neutron flow' route. The fact that he *didn't* do that in CoE is one of the reasons I like it so much.
ETA: Spoilers in comments.
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What I actually came to say is that I had just seen this on another LJ ... and also THANK YOU for all the links you keep giving - you are a star.
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Gorgeous, isn't it? Ideally I'd like something from CoE itself, but I've not been able to find anything that's not spoilery, and I know lots of people haven't seen it yet. And then I found this! *pets shiny banner* (It's made by
What I actually came to say is that I had just seen this on another LJ
Hee! Fandom hivemind indeed. :) And it's totally my pleasure - I think I'll have to do a link roundup tomorrow.
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Isn't it just? I keep just looking at it...
And now that I've seen Day Four, and I can read up on stuff...
Wait until you've seen Day 5!!!!!!! (You don't want to be spoiled, TRUST ME!)
I'm thinking that as much as I love Joss, I connect with RTD much more. Who knew?
Same here. It's odd... but then Joss kinda lost me with 'season 8', so...
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BUT - we get to read/write fan fiction to fix what we don't like!
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Yup. And I (mostly) like their stories! *g* Also - as you say - we have fic to fix the rest!
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I didn't entirely get his comment about SPN, but then it seemed more of a dig toward Kirpke not killing his main characters. Of course if Kirpke killed even one main character he'd only have one left. LOL
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Shiny header is SHINY! *pets OTP*
I read the interview because I saw CoE; Day 4 last night and I see nothing wrong with his attitude toward killing a character he created.
That's the thing - it's his sandbox, and he can do what he wants. It made me *hurt*, but I can see why he did it.
Of course if Kirpke killed even one main character he'd only have one left. LOL
Heh. I guess he's a little like Joss with the Scoobies... there's some characters that are automatically 'safe', and RTD doesn't go in for that, I don't think. (Of course he has immortal ones to play with, so...)
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Yup; me too. I'm anxious to talk to a RL friend and see what he as a non TW watcher (but big Buffy-verse fan) thought!
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Proper adult drama is a Good Thing. :)
I'm anxious to talk to a RL friend and see what he as a non TW watcher (but big Buffy-verse fan) thought!
Oooh, do tell once you've found out.