Misc.

[elisi]

Firstly Happy Birthday vampirefever! Hope you've had a great day filled with your favourite things. :)

*****

In other news Darcy and I went to see 'Watchmen' last night, and it impressed me hugely. I do not know the graphic novel at all, so didn't quite know what to expect apart from DARK STUFF, but (although the violence was occasionally so gruesome that I had to cover my eyes) I really, really liked it, and we both wanted to go re-watch it immediately, to catch all the stuff we missed first time round. I love smart movies that make me think!

And that is all, because it is late and I'm half-asleep.

Comments

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

No, I hadn't seen Vogue. Err, what's it about? I just watched it, and it seems rather, um, silly.

I actually think Rorschach is the "most" heroic - though his heroism has a cost to his soul. I'm not entirely sure if I think the cost is worth it. Though I do think that Batman and Spider-man's idiotic refusal to kill, even in self defense, even to the point of reviving villains (CPR on the Joker) to prevent it, is a) borderline evil, as they consistently get away and kill hundreds more; b) laziness on the writer's part, since they only do it to ensure more conflict in the future without actually, you know, coming up with new stuff; c) stretching credulity. So I rather liked that all the heros in Watchmen weren't afraid of killing in self defense, at least.

Well, since I no longer care, I guess it doesn't matter whose side I'm on. Though I've thought about why I still think they're canon, and I think it's because I'm a huge Star Wars expanded universe fan, which includes television, film, comics, novels, video games, and RPGs in canon. So a new medium didn't throw me. But bad writing doesn't make me wanna continue subjecting myself to it.

I think Watchmen fits into the superhero genre - though consciously trying to break out of it, it remains trapped by the same issues, visual cues, and character types.

[elisi]

Err, what's it about? I just watched it, and it seems rather, um, silly.
Well that's sort of the point. To quote someone with more eloquence than I am capable of right now: One of New York magazine's Best Videos of the year, and that's no lie. In Vogue, Luminosity punctures the violence of 300 by defiantly aestheticizing both the battlefield and the men on it. She conflates the battlefield and the dance floor, subjecting the men to a female and queer gaze and setting Madonna up as this world's reigning pagan goddess. An instant classic that went straight into vidding canon.

I actually think Rorschach is the "most" heroic - though his heroism has a cost to his soul. I'm not entirely sure if I think the cost is worth it.
*nods* And that ambiguity is what I find so fascinating. :)

Though I do think that Batman and Spider-man's idiotic refusal to kill, even in self defense, even to the point of reviving villains (CPR on the Joker) to prevent it, is a) borderline evil
Good point - Watchmen of course shows the flipside, but there's no doubt that letting murderers run free is very bad... and incredibly irresponsible.

I think it's because I'm a huge Star Wars expanded universe fan, which includes television, film, comics, novels, video games, and RPGs in canon.
That makes sense. I'm very strict when it comes to canon, so we've just got different points of view.

I think Watchmen fits into the superhero genre - though consciously trying to break out of it, it remains trapped by the same issues, visual cues, and character types.
In a glass, darkly? Anyway, I've really enjoyed our discussion - thank you lots for making me think. :)

ETA: By the way, have you seen The Tick? (On Amazon here, although rather expensive.) If not, then you SHOULD, especially if you're doing a big super-hero comparison essay thing. *nods* He's an absurdist spoof of comic book superheroes, yet absolutely wonderful and with a fabulous gallery of supporting characters. And his sidekick might be my favourite sidekick *ever*.

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Okay...I guess. I just think 300 is both violence porn and stupid to the nth degree.

Hmmm, ambiguity. I actually just read a really good article about moral ambiguity which helped me understand why I'm generally frustrated with claims of complexity with ambiguity, and corresponding put downs of "black and white" morality as simplistic: Shades of Grey(havens). Not that you're wrong about Rorschach, it just made me think about the issue - and I found the article helpful.

Dunno about "through the glass" - Dan and Ozy's costumes are clearly ripped from the mid-90s Batman films, the origin story of Dr. Manhattan is basically the Hulk's, and (my favorite connection), Silk Specter II has the same mother/hero/footsteps issues as Black Canary (from the really fun Birds of Prey). I think it's more indebted to superheros than the creators are willing to admit - I wish they were just a bit more upfront about their intentions, instead of pretending to be completely original or realistic (at least, the artist Dave Gibbons is up front about it - Zach Snyder and Alan Moore much less so).

I have not seen the Tick - praps will check it out from the library, if it's available!

[elisi]

I just think 300 is both violence porn and stupid to the nth degree.
That seems to be the general consensus.

I actually just read a really good article
*bookmarks* I love intelligent writing, thank you!

I think it's more indebted to superheros than the creators are willing to admit - I wish they were just a bit more upfront about their intentions, instead of pretending to be completely original or realistic
I'm not familiar with any of the creators, I must admit, but you seem to have a point, absolutely. And, since I mentioned The Tick already, he is very, very deliberately ripped off - that's half the joke. :) See if you can find it somewhere (it might be going cheap on eBay), it's wonderful and very entertaining. Kinda like the anti-Watchmen!

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

You're more than welcome. Sorry for being behind on replying.

The main creators I'm irritated with are Alan Moore, who thinks he's God's gift to nerds, and Zach Snyder, who thinks he's the most original filmmaker since D. W. Griffiths.