Birthdays and stuff...

[elisi]

It's birthday time again and look at what kathyh made for me!!!! (Or rather what I cajoled her into making... *g*). I hope you like, ladies!

So - Happy Birthday to opalescence_ and stoney321 (who won't see this, but...). I hope you have a fabulous day and enjoy your Spike! :)

In other news we watched 'Revelations' (3.07):

More Tai Chi...

Darcy's comment: "His hair gets pointier every episode!"
Me: "Buffy must be bringing him hair gel..."

A little later, after one of their almost-kisses:

Buffy: Sorry. It's just... old habit. Bad, bad habit to be broken.
Angel: It's hard.
Buffy: It's not hard. Cold turkey. That's the key to quitting.
Darcy: No, Buffy - it's hard!
Me: [collapses]

Sometimes I adore my husband too much for words! :)

There was something else... oh yes, the Scoobie meeting where they all confront Buffy with their knowledge of Angel. Which brings up another point: Everyone consistently calls him 'Angel' throughout S2 (and 3). The *only* time he's ever referred to as 'Angelus' is when Spike first meets him in School Hard. After that it's 'Angel' all the way. The 'Angelus' thing is very much something from AtS!

Anyway, that scene is *so* uncomfortable. And I found myself comparing it with 'Beneath You' and decided that all told Buffy had it a lot easier with Spike. And *Spike* had it easier. See in S3 the Scoobies are worried for themselves, because Angelus went after Buffy's friends. In S7 they're worried for Buffy, because Spike was obsessed with her. The dynamic is completely different. Also Spike never killed anyone Buffy was close to:

Revelations:

Xander: Hope not. Because I think you're harboring a vicious killer.

Buffy: It was wrong, okay? I know that, and I know that it can't happen again. But you guys have to believe me. I would never put you in any danger. If I thought for a second that Angel was going to hurt anyone...

Xander: ...you would stop him. Like you did last time with Ms. Calendar.

Beneath You:

XANDER: OK, in the biggest way, I am not loving this plan. (to Buffy) I am not loving Spike. (whispering) He tried to rape you.

BUFFY: And he failed. I know I can take him. Xander, take Nancy home. Spike and I will patrol.

Basically I just don't like the episode much. Even Darcy was complaining that the Scoobies were being stupid in not seeing that Souled!Angel was different from Angelus, and that Gwendolin Post was *evil* and needed a smack-down. Also hate her effect on Faith. Meh.

ETA: It's a very good episode of course, where all the story lines get moved forward etc. I just don't enjoy it very much.

Comments

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

I liked Giles' "You have no respect..." speech a lot, but other than that, the episode is pretty unmemorable.

Shhh, Beneath You. ;-)

Pretty gifty icon!

Question: did I get a new layout? I thought I had my nice blue flexible squares.

Hilarious commentary.

Geek note - one of the things I hated about the Buffy monthly comic was the lame way it had Angel pick a new name right before he meets Buffy in "Welcome to the Hellmouth". I thought he was Angel much before that. Oh, well, post-traumatic multiple personality vampire disorder - PTMPVD for short - is such fun. Fortunately, as you say, Spike don't gots it.

[elisi]

I liked Giles' "You have no respect..." speech a lot
Oh yes. That one is *harsh* - a real punch in the gut - but necessary. The rest... I just can't get excited about. And I really, really like Faith. *sigh*

did I get a new layout? I thought I had my nice blue flexible squares.
But didn't you use to have pretty orange? Am I just hopelessly behind? (Well yes - Duh!)

the lame way it had Angel pick a new name right before he meets Buffy in "Welcome to the Hellmouth".
Hmmmm - see that makes me want to look up scripts and stuff. But I'm not going to. ::resolve face::

PTMPVD for short - is such fun.
Bwah!

Spike don't gots it.
Three cheers for Spike! :)

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Orange - pretty - but so last month. :-)

Cheers for Spike every time he comes onscreen! Wheee!

I unfortunately only liked Faith after Angel 1.16(?) - Five by Five (which I got the scriptbook for - yay!) - but now I likes her muchly. Gotta love redemption.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I don't really blame the Scoobies for being scared, especially with the knowledge that Buffy tried to hide Angel frome them, also the fact that Buffy was seen kissing Angel recklessly. I really don't blame the scoobies for freaking out. Eventually, Willow said she's back to like Angel because he saved her, and Xander told Buffy he trusted her and he did, since he never acted off agaianst Angel after this episode.

Giles' reaction is very understandable, since he was the one who suffered the most from Angelus.

Xander and Willow were also very close to die in the hands of Angelus.

[http://users.livejournal.com/opalescence_/]

Thank you so much!!!

[elisi]

You're welcome. :)

[elisi]

Oh the Scoobies are perfectly justified - Buffy has a sad habit of keeping secrets (actually they all do now I think about it), but she *really* could have handled the Angel thing better.

[elisi]

Gotta love redemption.
Oh yeah! See I first saw Faith in S7 (never saw S3 when it first aired), so I was all 'Huh?' and very anxious to catch up. I liked her OK in S3, but it's 5x5 that really gets me too! After that - just wow! :)

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Aw I feel bad for poor Buffy, she loves Angel so much and she feared the others would have wanted him to be staked, so she hid him from them, but I do think in the situation that the Scoobies are the ones on the right. In Dead Man's Party, I'm at Buffy's side. In Empty Places, I'm with both sides the Scoobies and Buffy's.

[elisi]

::nods:: I think this is why I like the show so much - it got increasingly complex as it went along, and it wasn't possible to say 'so-and-so is ALL wrong!'. Re. Empty Places, then Buffy had the right idea (go back to the vineyard), but the wrong plan (what was needed was a sharp, singular attack, not an army).

[stoney321.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! (And of course I'd see this! I click on my user info page to journals all the time! I have a weird indexing thing I do, that's all. Heh. I'm ODD. Surely you've figured that out by now, right?)

*squish hug cuddle!*

[elisi]

Hee! Well I wouldn't have written it if I'd thought you'd never check... *g*

*big squishy hugs back* and thank you for all the nice things you said in your other comment! :)

::uses Darcy icon::

[samsom.livejournal.com]

Hey! I usually lurk in your LJ - major fan of your metas - but I wanted to say something about this ep.

I don't blame the Scoobies for being scared, and seeing Buffy kiss Angel was about the worst possible thing for Xander to walk into, but I always felt the difference between Giles's reaction and Xander's was significant. Giles was expressing his own feelings, understated and sincere, in a private setting. Xander used the others, imo, to punish Buffy for making the wrong choice, and he did it in public. He used his words, and Ms. Calender, as weapons. I've always found it hard to watch this scene, and the one in Dead Man's Party, for this reason. I never felt his heart was in the right place, but instead was motivated by jealousy, because Buffy always picked the undead over anyone human.

I know I'm being harsh, and I don't mean to be. I like Xander, and his role on Buffy, but in this, I'm not sympathetic to him and the others for ganging up on Buffy and demanding to be privy to every single aspect of her life.

And hi!

[elisi]

Hi! *waves*

I love it when people de-lurk. :) Do you want me to friend back btw? I'm hopeless at keeping up with my flist though, just to warn you.

I like Xander, and his role on Buffy, but in this, I'm not sympathetic to him and the others for ganging up on Buffy and demanding to be privy to every single aspect of her life.
Xander can be awfully harsh and mean. He's exactly the same in 'Becoming I' when Buffy finds the re-souling spell, and even in 'Prophecy Girl' when Buffy won't go with him to the prom.

So yes, it's a horrible scene, but - looking at it structurally - it sets up the confrontation with Giles very well.

Anyway, please feel free to de-lurk as much as you like. :)