elisi | More squee! And a Spuffy thought!

Well, Christmas has obviously come early, because yesterday someone gifted me with more icon-space! Thank you so much anonymous benefactor! LJ-fairy? Christmas-fairy? Or... ::looks suspiciously at Anna and her magic wand::

Today we went to Impish Girl's pre-school/nursery to see their nativity play! Anyone who hasn't seen 25 3-year olds doing this hasn't lived! They were all just so cute!! And afterwards there was tea and cakes, and because about half the children are asian, and parent's brought the refreshments, I had Christmas cake and onion bhajis (sorry about spelling).

But - I also have a little thought to share:

Spuffy Thought

Now I doubt I'm the first one to notice this, but I felt like sharing anyway! We all know that heartbreaking moment:

Buffy: "I love you."
Spike: "No you don't."

I'm one of those who think that yes she meant it and yes he believed her. (See this post by

the_royal_anna and this FitB by Kimi: The Way It Works - set just post-Chosen).

But that's not what I'm going to talk about. Because I discovered that there was a precedent for 'I love you' / 'No you don't'! And also that in this scene the denial doesn't mean disbelief. Let me show you - this is from the alley scene in 'Dead Things:

Spike: "You're not going in there."
Buffy: "I have to do this. Just let me go."
Spike: "I can't. I love you."
Buffy: "No, you don't."
Spike: "You think I haven't tried not to?"
Buffy hauls off and punches him in the face. Spike goes flying back into a couple of garbage cans, against the wall of the next building.
Buffy: "Try harder."

Buffy's denial is most certainly an instruction - a command even. And how interesting that this exchange comes at one of their lowest points and the mirror scene at their highest! I just liked the symmetry. Now go discuss! ;-)

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Yay for icon space - now you have so much choice you'll go slightly mad... :)
*hugs you for this post* Denial does not mean disbelief.
Besides there's always good fanfic to reassure us of this.... *g*

you are brilliantly observant, as always.
i relly liked reading those links, too. i'd have never seen them otherwise. thanks so much!

Interesting. I'm in the 'she meant it, but he didn't (or didn't dare to) believe it' camp myself.

I'm adding to my icons very slowly - I'll try to get a really good selection and not just go slightly mad... hee! ;-)

Although there are some I uploaded straight away! Such as this gorgeous one by

kathyh!

And of course denial doesn't mean disbelief! Silly ducks!

You're right,

kathyh has some excellent ones!The colours are wonderful.
Also

amavel_bel has some great AtS 5 ones too.

Thanks for the compliments! *blushes*

And you mean you've never read

the_royal_anna's essays? Go do so now! They're all in her memories! Bestest, loveliest essays ever!

Well, life would be boring if we all agreed, wouldn't it! (And I adore this icon! I'll never be able to let go of the extra icon-space now... and having an LJ was supposed to be a free hobby!)

can you do me a favor? i wrote a small harry potter slash drabble and need a little constructive citicism. it is the first fanfic i have written, so i want to be able to do better next time. i know harry potter isn't your fandom, but i didn't have any spuffy thoughts at the time. anyway, it is in my lj entries. if you don't want to, then just pretend i never asked. thanks

Also amavel_bel has some great AtS 5 ones too

If those were the ones rec'd by

thedeadlyhook I saw them yesterday... will go have another look soon!

Oh, I saw it earlier when I was skimming through my flist, and was going to have a look in a moment! And I love Harry Potter (read the last one in two days and it only took so long because I had a family to look after!). Will go read now! :)

That is a good icon! I'm teetering on the brink at 49 of the damn things - and I had to remove some!

I'm teetering on the brink at 49 of the damn things - and I had to remove some!

Heh! That'll be me in 3 days time...

I hadn't ever thought of that. Thank you :)

And I just cried all over Kimi's story.

If he believed a word of what she said (even if she did mean it, in her way, if it was real to her, as far as she's capable of loving anyone that's not her or an extension of her) he'd have gone off to her when he could. He didn;t. Ergo he didn;t believe her and was telling the truth as his last act (or so he thought) as a truth teller.

I didn't believe her either, or there would have been at least a slivver of grief at his death - as there would be from any half decent human being.

I forget when I noticed, but it felt like a cartoon-light bulb moment! Heh.

THere's additional symmetry between DT adn Chosen there too. In DT he loves her adn she beats him to a pulp and leaves him to die. In Chosen she tears his heart out with a spoon by jumping Angel and showing no remorse, then she gives him the amulet she and Angel won't risk wearing themselves and which kills him, as she leaves him there to die.

No wonder he decided against going back for more.

Oh, me too! To me that story is canon! I have a little printout that I keep in my bedside cabinet!

(Yes I'm sad, but it's so perfect!)

When I watch the “Chosen” I cannot but believe that Spike believed that Buffy loved him. It is just at that moment there was nothing hidden between them. And I am always easily persuaded by the argument on htat side. So, “no. you don’t” as a request works well for me.

But there is more to it, It recently occurred to me: Spike was seeing his and Buffy’s story – sometimes – as the “Gone with the wind” remix (remember Tabula Rasa?), so the irony of the situation was not lost on him either.

And the next year, having found himself undead again his insecurities and doubts, that didn’t matter at that moment came back with the vengeance…

This is a reply to both comments - I see where you're coming from, but personally I just happen to disagree. See this thread from my Intervention essay which says most of what I think about those last moments (or rather, why Buffy smiled).

And I think that giving Spike the amulet was the biggest compliment she could have given him - can you imagine if she'd brought Angel home: "Well everybody, the Champion is here!" That would have been worse I think.

She'd already done worse to Spike by snogging angel and completely dismissing Spike's rights to his own emotions of feeling upset and betrayed.

But then she'd already done that before in AYW, only this time instead of leaving Spike's home in flames she leaves him.

And smiles about it both times.

I think in AYW she was probably just happy to finally have found the strength to say no.

In Chosen I firmly believe that she was proud of him - of how far he had come! And I'm certain that there were plenty of tears later! (See Kimi's fic)

Oh, interesting thoughts! The 'Gone with the Wind' comparison is v. good! And I think there might be a thousand reasons why he didn't go back to Buffy, but maybe he just wanted to see if he could get that Shanshu!

A fic is a fic. It's not real, it's not on screen. What we got on screen was a monster that couldn't even muster up a moment of grief adn decency for her victims, be they Spike, Anya or the kids she got killed. But hey, why would she, they weren't her, so why give a shit.

I get a feeling that you don't like Buffy very much...

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More squee! And a Spuffy thought!

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