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The space between. (Spike and Angel in S5).
You might remember the post I wrote for One Bit Shy about Spike’s development in S5?
Well he replied a while a go with a very long and thought provoking answer and I’ve been working on a reply for more than a week. Reposting my thoughts here - feel free to check it out, although I doubt there’ll be anything new for anyone. But it does lay out in great detail why I love Spike and Angel in S5. :)
~~~~
First of all sorry that I’ve been so slow replying. Busy life and all that - and you had a lot to say! ;)
>> You asked me to keep writing (about Spike no less!),
> Write. Not run into his arms.
If I’d been running into his arms there would have been lingering descriptions. And possibly pictures. Like... oh say this one (by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ciley if anyone wants to snag!):
*g*
>> The first one tells us his name, the second what he does (kills
>> things), but the third one... oh the third one tells us who he is.
> A predator? Please don't forget what his aim for Sheila was. One of the
> oft observed characteristics of Spike was his ability to charm.
I do not dispute that - nor the excellent points you bring up about Spike being unable to change his core being, which remains the same. But - almost all the mess in S6 comes about because Buffy doesn’t know if she needs Spike to be a monster she can lose herself in, or a man who can save her (he has fought the darkness inside, so maybe he can help her do the same). It all comes to a head in Seeing Red of course:
Spike: “It won't let me be a monster. And I can't be a man. I'm nothing.”
> As Spike heads out on his soul quest he does not appear to actually believe
> in it. He certainly does resent having to do it. He's taking a long shot
> because nothing else is left to him. His attitude is actually akin to many
> of the things he's done in an attempt to please Buffy. He rails at it. He
> knows it's not really him. He resents having to do it. A bunch of things
> highlighting how unchanging so much of Spike is.
Now I’m not so sure about that. Yes he’s angry - obviously - and resentful. But I think he *does* believe in his quest:
SPIKE: She thinks she knows me. She thinks she knows who I am. What I'm capable of. She has no idea. I wasn't always this way. It won't be easy, but I can be like I was. Before they castrated me. Before... Then she'll see who I really am.
ETA: Darn it, it's from the shooting script and didn't make it on screen. Which is good! :) And I am a moron... that's less good.
Yes it’s all stupidly ambiguous so people will think that he wants the chip out - but we see very clearly that it isn’t just about her. It’s about him being good enough, him showing her that she’s wrong and he’s right. That he can change. Most of S6 is about the two of the trying to work out where they are in relation to each other, with Buffy coming down to his level (“You came back wrong!”). When he himself proves that he really truly is beneath her, it becomes his incentive to try to pull himself up to her level.
But onto S5...
> Damage went further by sort of revisiting his attitude from Lies My Parents
> Told Me and revising it to be more mindful of the real evil he had done
> pre-soul. But this isn't a dive into consuming guilt like Angel. Instead
> he actually identifies with Dana and emphasizes his approach of integrating
> the whole of himself by recognizing the monster that's still part of him.
Now I wouldn’t say that...
ANGEL: A lot of pain?
SPIKE: More than I'd like. But not as much as you would. Just what I deserve.
ANGEL: I didn't say that.
SPIKE: No. I did. The lass thought I killed her family. And I'm supposed to what, complain 'cause hers wasn't one of the hundreds of families I did kill? I'm not sayin' you're right... 'cause, uh... I'm physically incapable of saying that. But, uh... for a demon... I never did think that much about the nature of evil. No. Just threw myself in. Thought it was a party. I liked the rush. I liked the crunch. Never did look back at the victims.
No it’s not ‘all consuming’ guilt in that sense, but then he did that back when he first got the soul. Here he begins to understand a wider concept of guilt and punishment. It’s the flip-side to LMPTM indeed, recognising that if Wood had killed him, he would have been perfectly right to do so. And Dana becomes a symbol of the Slayers he killed (and by extension all his victims). The Chinese Slayer asks him to tell her *mother* that she’s sorry, Nikki begs for her because of her *son*. No deed exists in isolation:
SPIKE: Yeah. That's what you're remembering—other slayers.
DANA: You killed her.
SPIKE (sadly): Yes. But—
DANA: You killed them both.
SPIKE (whispering): That and worse. But I was never here.
DANA: Doesn't matter! Head and heart. Keep cutting till you see dust.
‘I was never here’/‘Doesn’t matter’. That’s the lesson he learns.
And I don’t think he identifies with Dana - I think it’s the other way round. *She* is like *them*.
But to get to the main bit:
> Where I would have been fine with leaving him. I'm not convinced all that
> much was done with him in AtS. A closer look at his history with Angel is
> interesting - adds some nuance to the past - but addressing that
> relationship post-soul isn't terribly interesting to me for Spike's sake.
> (It serves more of a function for Angel.)
Thinking about it all, I’m beginning to realise that we’re coming at this from completely different angles. Well sort of. Because there’s a whole other side to this, and it is quite simply such a part of how I see Spike in S5 that it never really occurred to me to spell it out.
The thing is that in many ways I agree with your assessment that nothing much happens development-wise for Spike (or Angel - at least until the very end). There is no major arc for either vampire, and yes Spike (being a mirror for Angel, as well as a Connor-substitute) is far more important for Angel’s story than the other way round. But you see, it’s not just about them individually. I like Spike’s arc and I like Angel’s, but compared to other seasons they aren’t scintillating... But looking at them in isolation defies the point. It’s in the space in between that the action takes place. It’s in their relationship where we see the arc and the furious development, it’s in their interactions that we get the story. Like with Buffy and Spike... except that was (more than anything) a love story. Spike and Angel’s story is different - it’s about family (father/son and brotherly bonds), it’s about rivalry and friendship, about love and hate and being the only two souled vampires in existence.
Seeing that relationship develop, seeing it change from anger and spitefulness and hate (but with an undercurrent of mutual understanding), to respect and consideration and mutual support (but without losing the snark of course), is one of my favourite things ever. It’s what makes S5 stand out and shine.
See what I love more than anything is having two characters that you could stick in an empty room and then just watch them spark off each other - no props, no plot, no story needed. Spike and Buffy were always like that. Spike and Angel are the same.
Now before you get any ideas - it’s not about sex. There’s nothing in S5 to suggest that they’re getting it on (except TGiQ of course, but it’s all silly hints and nothing more). Actually - since I’m on the subject - I’m putting their ‘one time’ post-Destiny. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I read a *fascinating* fic bystir_of_echoes (Lament For The Dead) where Spike turns up in Angel’s bedroom the night after the big fight, and encounters a thoroughly beaten and unguarded Angel:
The only real thing was here, now, this moment and all that stood between them. The horror, the ugliness of a past they had tried desperately to escape, tried desperately to avoid just as they had avoided each other. Just as they had been afraid to look upon each other and see everything they had shared. Rage and destruction, death and chaos, together they had been the cause of it all and relished in the moment. Savoured every scream, every desperate cry for mercy, watched and laughed as hope died, replaced by terror as limbs snapped and eyes closed and bodies were cast battered and broken on the bloodstained floor.
And then there was nothing, nothing but shame, toxic in its fury that smothered them in a shroud of confusion, self-loathing and abandonment…
The hatred Spike felt thawed under the realisation of the truth and the knowledge that this, this moment was what it was really like to share the slaughter of innocents with another man.
Wonderful writing - I love how the author took one of the most ridiculous lines the show ever produced and used it to show the true darkness of their relationship. And yes, I could see them being ‘intimate’ at that moment in time - the quiet after the storm, the counterpoint to the furiously destructive and very, very personal battle. It would also explain their almost playful jibing in ‘Harm’s Way’ that really jars with the seething resentment at the end of ‘Destiny’.
But to get back on track... It is true that the Spike at the end of AtS S5 is not very far removed from the Spike at the end of S7. But - his relationship with Angel is so different as to almost be on another planet. If/when they meet Buffy post-NFA I’d expect her to ask Angel what the *hell* he was thinking unleashing an apocalypse. And then Spike (Spike of all people!) would defend him! (Even though Spike probably asked Angel the same thing many times over). And that is [the main reason] why I love S5 so very much: It took two of my favourite ever characters, put them together and let them deal with and move past (most of) the ugliness of their history and established them as firm brothers-in-arms.
Now you say in your reply that ‘Angel dumps on Spike all season’. As someone who is also rather fond of sweeping statements I’ll not take this too literally, but - I honestly do not see that happening. There are moments of course - eps. 2-4 being the primary example of Angel being really very unpleasant, although in many ways he is doing just what Buffy did in S6 and taking out his issues on Spike, because he in Spike sees someone like himself (Angel and Buffy are in many ways very, very similar) [You always hurt the one you love]. The difference of course being that Spike gives back as good as he gets - he never lets Angel walk over him the way he did with Buffy. This gets somewhat alleviated in the hell-and-poetry talk and then doesn’t really show up again until ‘Destiny’, which is thoroughly nasty - 100+ years worth of frustration being unleashed in one go, which is probably quite healthy in that it lets them move on.
And after that - I can honestly not think of a single case of Angel being deliberately cruel or nasty towards Spike. Heck in ‘Damage’ he tries his best to stop Spike from going after Dana on his own, and it’s very obvious that what he *wants* to say is “I care about you - please don’t go out and get yourself killed!” except of course he can’t do that because they’re manly men etc. *shakes head fondly*
Going back to my Angel-Buffy parallel there’s also the fact that they don’t need to hold back with Spike. We see this very clearly in ‘Get It Done’, where Buffy is far more brutal with Spike than anyone else - because she knows he can take it. The flip side to that is that Spike is the only one she opens up to. Saying that ‘Spike has her back’ isn’t just about fights, or Spike backing her up in arguments - it’s about having a place to unload. Angel does exactly the same in S5, only far more so. You might call it ‘dumping’ - I call it opening up on a scale we’ve rarely seen. Like say House and Wilson (presuming you watch ‘House’?). And it’s different than Wesley or Cordelia, who are the ones who usually try to talk to Angel. In ‘Numero Cinco’ and ‘You’re Welcome’ we see first one, then the other try to get Angel back on track, to find the purpose, the mission he lost. That’s not Spike’s role - Spike quite simply understands Angel. And over the course of the season we see how more and more issues are dealt with and stop being *obstacles* between them, and instead tie them closer together. TGiQ being the final stage, changing their rivalry over Buffy into shared loss. She becomes ‘their’ Buffy.
OK, I’m going to have to stop writing, because it’s eating too much time. I’ll just say that for me *personally* I would not for all the wonders of the world have done without the joy of watching the Spike/Angel relationship develop. At the end of S7 everyone knew that Spike and Angel hated each other (or at least disliked each other intensely). At the end of AtS S5 everyone knew that Spike and Angel loved each other (even if they’d never say so out loud). And for that alone Joss will forever have my eternal gratitude!
And as for how the relationship would have fared in Season 6... well apparently we’ll find out! :)
Finally, no matter how fitting and wonderful his death in Chosen, I’ll always be grateful that Spike was brought back. Partly of course because this means that maybe one day Buffy can settle down with him, but even more than that because of Angel:
David Fury: Unlike Buffy who ended up with her three friends and were able to end in that way, in Angel's case, everybody that he's ever been close to dies, which is really Angel's story - that he will always outlive the people he cares about. He has gone on and on, he has seen people he loves die, which is another reason that he and Buffy realized they couldn't be together. [...] But the fact that he was side-by-side with Spike was kind of a wonderful turnaround in the mythology of the series.
Interviewer: There's Butch and Sundance right there.
Once upon a time (post-Smile Time), my dear friendthe_royal_anna wrote a ‘little story’ about Angel and a string of golden-haired girls (‘cause it’s always blondes for Angel). You like metaphors, right? Go read, it's amazing!
And then not very long ago I (very presumptuously) wrote a ‘last act’ as it were, inspired by Not Fade Away (and David Fury’s comments).
Reading it through now I almost feel like deleting this whole post, because that story snippet pretty much says everything I want to say about why I love that they brought Spike back. Ah well.
Well he replied a while a go with a very long and thought provoking answer and I’ve been working on a reply for more than a week. Reposting my thoughts here - feel free to check it out, although I doubt there’ll be anything new for anyone. But it does lay out in great detail why I love Spike and Angel in S5. :)
First of all sorry that I’ve been so slow replying. Busy life and all that - and you had a lot to say! ;)
>> You asked me to keep writing (about Spike no less!),
> Write. Not run into his arms.
If I’d been running into his arms there would have been lingering descriptions. And possibly pictures. Like... oh say this one (by
ciley if anyone wants to snag!):*g*
>> The first one tells us his name, the second what he does (kills
>> things), but the third one... oh the third one tells us who he is.
> A predator? Please don't forget what his aim for Sheila was. One of the
> oft observed characteristics of Spike was his ability to charm.
I do not dispute that - nor the excellent points you bring up about Spike being unable to change his core being, which remains the same. But - almost all the mess in S6 comes about because Buffy doesn’t know if she needs Spike to be a monster she can lose herself in, or a man who can save her (he has fought the darkness inside, so maybe he can help her do the same). It all comes to a head in Seeing Red of course:
Spike: “It won't let me be a monster. And I can't be a man. I'm nothing.”
> As Spike heads out on his soul quest he does not appear to actually believe
> in it. He certainly does resent having to do it. He's taking a long shot
> because nothing else is left to him. His attitude is actually akin to many
> of the things he's done in an attempt to please Buffy. He rails at it. He
> knows it's not really him. He resents having to do it. A bunch of things
> highlighting how unchanging so much of Spike is.
Now I’m not so sure about that. Yes he’s angry - obviously - and resentful. But I think he *does* believe in his quest:
ETA: Darn it, it's from the shooting script and didn't make it on screen. Which is good! :) And I am a moron... that's less good.
Yes it’s all stupidly ambiguous so people will think that he wants the chip out - but we see very clearly that it isn’t just about her. It’s about him being good enough, him showing her that she’s wrong and he’s right. That he can change. Most of S6 is about the two of the trying to work out where they are in relation to each other, with Buffy coming down to his level (“You came back wrong!”). When he himself proves that he really truly is beneath her, it becomes his incentive to try to pull himself up to her level.
But onto S5...
> Damage went further by sort of revisiting his attitude from Lies My Parents
> Told Me and revising it to be more mindful of the real evil he had done
> pre-soul. But this isn't a dive into consuming guilt like Angel. Instead
> he actually identifies with Dana and emphasizes his approach of integrating
> the whole of himself by recognizing the monster that's still part of him.
Now I wouldn’t say that...
ANGEL: A lot of pain?
SPIKE: More than I'd like. But not as much as you would. Just what I deserve.
ANGEL: I didn't say that.
SPIKE: No. I did. The lass thought I killed her family. And I'm supposed to what, complain 'cause hers wasn't one of the hundreds of families I did kill? I'm not sayin' you're right... 'cause, uh... I'm physically incapable of saying that. But, uh... for a demon... I never did think that much about the nature of evil. No. Just threw myself in. Thought it was a party. I liked the rush. I liked the crunch. Never did look back at the victims.
No it’s not ‘all consuming’ guilt in that sense, but then he did that back when he first got the soul. Here he begins to understand a wider concept of guilt and punishment. It’s the flip-side to LMPTM indeed, recognising that if Wood had killed him, he would have been perfectly right to do so. And Dana becomes a symbol of the Slayers he killed (and by extension all his victims). The Chinese Slayer asks him to tell her *mother* that she’s sorry, Nikki begs for her because of her *son*. No deed exists in isolation:
SPIKE: Yeah. That's what you're remembering—other slayers.
DANA: You killed her.
SPIKE (sadly): Yes. But—
DANA: You killed them both.
SPIKE (whispering): That and worse. But I was never here.
DANA: Doesn't matter! Head and heart. Keep cutting till you see dust.
‘I was never here’/‘Doesn’t matter’. That’s the lesson he learns.
And I don’t think he identifies with Dana - I think it’s the other way round. *She* is like *them*.
But to get to the main bit:
> Where I would have been fine with leaving him. I'm not convinced all that
> much was done with him in AtS. A closer look at his history with Angel is
> interesting - adds some nuance to the past - but addressing that
> relationship post-soul isn't terribly interesting to me for Spike's sake.
> (It serves more of a function for Angel.)
Thinking about it all, I’m beginning to realise that we’re coming at this from completely different angles. Well sort of. Because there’s a whole other side to this, and it is quite simply such a part of how I see Spike in S5 that it never really occurred to me to spell it out.
The thing is that in many ways I agree with your assessment that nothing much happens development-wise for Spike (or Angel - at least until the very end). There is no major arc for either vampire, and yes Spike (being a mirror for Angel, as well as a Connor-substitute) is far more important for Angel’s story than the other way round. But you see, it’s not just about them individually. I like Spike’s arc and I like Angel’s, but compared to other seasons they aren’t scintillating... But looking at them in isolation defies the point. It’s in the space in between that the action takes place. It’s in their relationship where we see the arc and the furious development, it’s in their interactions that we get the story. Like with Buffy and Spike... except that was (more than anything) a love story. Spike and Angel’s story is different - it’s about family (father/son and brotherly bonds), it’s about rivalry and friendship, about love and hate and being the only two souled vampires in existence.
Seeing that relationship develop, seeing it change from anger and spitefulness and hate (but with an undercurrent of mutual understanding), to respect and consideration and mutual support (but without losing the snark of course), is one of my favourite things ever. It’s what makes S5 stand out and shine.
See what I love more than anything is having two characters that you could stick in an empty room and then just watch them spark off each other - no props, no plot, no story needed. Spike and Buffy were always like that. Spike and Angel are the same.
Now before you get any ideas - it’s not about sex. There’s nothing in S5 to suggest that they’re getting it on (except TGiQ of course, but it’s all silly hints and nothing more). Actually - since I’m on the subject - I’m putting their ‘one time’ post-Destiny. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I read a *fascinating* fic by
stir_of_echoes (Lament For The Dead) where Spike turns up in Angel’s bedroom the night after the big fight, and encounters a thoroughly beaten and unguarded Angel:The only real thing was here, now, this moment and all that stood between them. The horror, the ugliness of a past they had tried desperately to escape, tried desperately to avoid just as they had avoided each other. Just as they had been afraid to look upon each other and see everything they had shared. Rage and destruction, death and chaos, together they had been the cause of it all and relished in the moment. Savoured every scream, every desperate cry for mercy, watched and laughed as hope died, replaced by terror as limbs snapped and eyes closed and bodies were cast battered and broken on the bloodstained floor.
And then there was nothing, nothing but shame, toxic in its fury that smothered them in a shroud of confusion, self-loathing and abandonment…
The hatred Spike felt thawed under the realisation of the truth and the knowledge that this, this moment was what it was really like to share the slaughter of innocents with another man.
Wonderful writing - I love how the author took one of the most ridiculous lines the show ever produced and used it to show the true darkness of their relationship. And yes, I could see them being ‘intimate’ at that moment in time - the quiet after the storm, the counterpoint to the furiously destructive and very, very personal battle. It would also explain their almost playful jibing in ‘Harm’s Way’ that really jars with the seething resentment at the end of ‘Destiny’.
But to get back on track... It is true that the Spike at the end of AtS S5 is not very far removed from the Spike at the end of S7. But - his relationship with Angel is so different as to almost be on another planet. If/when they meet Buffy post-NFA I’d expect her to ask Angel what the *hell* he was thinking unleashing an apocalypse. And then Spike (Spike of all people!) would defend him! (Even though Spike probably asked Angel the same thing many times over). And that is [the main reason] why I love S5 so very much: It took two of my favourite ever characters, put them together and let them deal with and move past (most of) the ugliness of their history and established them as firm brothers-in-arms.
Now you say in your reply that ‘Angel dumps on Spike all season’. As someone who is also rather fond of sweeping statements I’ll not take this too literally, but - I honestly do not see that happening. There are moments of course - eps. 2-4 being the primary example of Angel being really very unpleasant, although in many ways he is doing just what Buffy did in S6 and taking out his issues on Spike, because he in Spike sees someone like himself (Angel and Buffy are in many ways very, very similar) [You always hurt the one you love]. The difference of course being that Spike gives back as good as he gets - he never lets Angel walk over him the way he did with Buffy. This gets somewhat alleviated in the hell-and-poetry talk and then doesn’t really show up again until ‘Destiny’, which is thoroughly nasty - 100+ years worth of frustration being unleashed in one go, which is probably quite healthy in that it lets them move on.
And after that - I can honestly not think of a single case of Angel being deliberately cruel or nasty towards Spike. Heck in ‘Damage’ he tries his best to stop Spike from going after Dana on his own, and it’s very obvious that what he *wants* to say is “I care about you - please don’t go out and get yourself killed!” except of course he can’t do that because they’re manly men etc. *shakes head fondly*
Going back to my Angel-Buffy parallel there’s also the fact that they don’t need to hold back with Spike. We see this very clearly in ‘Get It Done’, where Buffy is far more brutal with Spike than anyone else - because she knows he can take it. The flip side to that is that Spike is the only one she opens up to. Saying that ‘Spike has her back’ isn’t just about fights, or Spike backing her up in arguments - it’s about having a place to unload. Angel does exactly the same in S5, only far more so. You might call it ‘dumping’ - I call it opening up on a scale we’ve rarely seen. Like say House and Wilson (presuming you watch ‘House’?). And it’s different than Wesley or Cordelia, who are the ones who usually try to talk to Angel. In ‘Numero Cinco’ and ‘You’re Welcome’ we see first one, then the other try to get Angel back on track, to find the purpose, the mission he lost. That’s not Spike’s role - Spike quite simply understands Angel. And over the course of the season we see how more and more issues are dealt with and stop being *obstacles* between them, and instead tie them closer together. TGiQ being the final stage, changing their rivalry over Buffy into shared loss. She becomes ‘their’ Buffy.
OK, I’m going to have to stop writing, because it’s eating too much time. I’ll just say that for me *personally* I would not for all the wonders of the world have done without the joy of watching the Spike/Angel relationship develop. At the end of S7 everyone knew that Spike and Angel hated each other (or at least disliked each other intensely). At the end of AtS S5 everyone knew that Spike and Angel loved each other (even if they’d never say so out loud). And for that alone Joss will forever have my eternal gratitude!
And as for how the relationship would have fared in Season 6... well apparently we’ll find out! :)
Finally, no matter how fitting and wonderful his death in Chosen, I’ll always be grateful that Spike was brought back. Partly of course because this means that maybe one day Buffy can settle down with him, but even more than that because of Angel:
David Fury: Unlike Buffy who ended up with her three friends and were able to end in that way, in Angel's case, everybody that he's ever been close to dies, which is really Angel's story - that he will always outlive the people he cares about. He has gone on and on, he has seen people he loves die, which is another reason that he and Buffy realized they couldn't be together. [...] But the fact that he was side-by-side with Spike was kind of a wonderful turnaround in the mythology of the series.
Interviewer: There's Butch and Sundance right there.
Once upon a time (post-Smile Time), my dear friend
the_royal_anna wrote a ‘little story’ about Angel and a string of golden-haired girls (‘cause it’s always blondes for Angel). You like metaphors, right? Go read, it's amazing!And then not very long ago I (very presumptuously) wrote a ‘last act’ as it were, inspired by Not Fade Away (and David Fury’s comments).
Reading it through now I almost feel like deleting this whole post, because that story snippet pretty much says everything I want to say about why I love that they brought Spike back. Ah well.
no subject
You put it much better than I could on what draws me to S/B. Don't feel the same enthusiam for S/A, but I can see why they've gained such a strong fanbase as opposed to Spander. Hee.
The difference of course being that Spike gives back as good as he gets - he never lets Angel walk over him the way he did with Buffy.
Nuh uh, Buffy let Spike walk all over her. Just playin'. But I really don't see their season 6 relationship that way. S7 maybe... mainly due to him being depressed and completely dependent on Buffy's guidance.
Um, since you never answered, you're not like mad about my "Ew" reaction to a certain preference of yours are you? *sheepish smile*
no subject
I might have given the matter some thought... and read a LOT of meta! *g*
Don't feel the same enthusiam for S/A, but I can see why they've gained such a strong fanbase as opposed to Spander. Hee.
Ick! Spander! *scrubs out brain* Sorry, never could understand the attraction. And I always liked the Spike/Angel interactions... the slashy aspects sorta snuck up on me! ;)
But I really don't see their season 6 relationship that way.
Hmm... well it's there and it isn't. He lets her use him ("I might be dirt etc") and will pretty much take any crumb she has to offer. Of course he 'fights back' on an entirely different level, where she lets *him* pull her along. It's all very complex.
Um, since you never answered, you're not like mad about my "Ew" reaction to a certain preference of yours are you? *sheepish smile*
Gah! Where? *has no memory of this whatsoever* So very sorry, I'm usually so good at answering comments!
no subject
You finding DB so much more attractive than JM. Apparently a lot of people agree with you. Like I know he's gotten old and stuff, but in his heyday he was very very ridiculously pretty. I'm not imagining things. *pouts*
no subject
(It's late and I'm tired so sorry if I make no sense. But Spike is definitely the most gorgeous sexy thing to walk this planet!)
no subject
Yet, they often do get compared. It's always pointed out that JM has a big head as if DB is perfect in every way. Um, no.
But Spike is definitely the most gorgeous sexy thing to walk this planet!
LOL. I wouldn't say that.