AtS S5. Ep. 1, 2 & 3.

[elisi]

Squee! *bounces* Bestest sister-in-law ever just called and said she'll pick up the girls from school! Which is extra brilliant since Little Miss M has choir and finishes and hour later than Impish Girl! Oh and she's going to get them some tea as well!

So since I decided to take a break, you get some scattered thoughts on the beginning of AtS (which I've been re-watching), since AOQ has just posted his review of 'Conviction (yet again proving that he has no sense of humour!).

Conviction
This was *so* much fun! 'Deep Down' is still my favourite opener, but this comes a close second. Too many lovely moments to mention, so I'll just focus on the best bits:

Hauser: "You pathetic little fairy!"
Angel: "I'm not little!"

Squeeeeeeeeeeee!

And of course the best one of all:

Angel: "I have no problems spanking men!"

(And a million fangirls died and went to heaven, where they - after worshipping The Mighty Joss - proceeded to write lots and lots of slashy porn!)

Dear Lord above what a great line! Sub-text rapidly becoming text... Is it any wonder that we all love Joss, no matter how much he likes to rip out our hearts?

Anyway, on to the meat of the episode:

HAUSER: That's exactly what you are. You're minuscule. A dust mote on the shelf of that great institution. Now, you think I'm just a trigger-happy jerk who follows orders, but I am something you will never be. I'm pure. I believe in evil. You and your friends, you're conflicted. You're confused. We're not. That is why you are gonna lose, because we possess the most powerful thing in the world... conviction.
ANGEL: There is one thing more powerful than conviction. Just one. Mercy.
[kills Hauser in cold blood]
AGENT: What happened to mercy?
ANGEL: You just saw the last of it.

Just damn! That was *so* cold. No second chance, no trying to save this guy... just brutal murder. And foreshadowing of the shooting of Lindsey in NFA much? Angel's not so heroic anymore...

See it ties back to 'Blind Date':

Angel: "No, it's not my fault. - I-I didn't cause it, and I can't fix it. I can't do anything about it. - Well, she's guilty. - She's guilty and- and they let her go. She murdered a man right in front of me and I can't even testify to that fact in a court of law."
Cordy: "Well, maybe in night court you could..."
Angel: "It's their court room, not mine."
Cordy: "Whose?"
Angel: "Their rules, their game."
Cordy: "Oh, you mean the Wolfram and Hart types."
Angel shakes his head: "I have no place in their world at all."
Wesley: "Angel."
Angel: "How am I expected to do battle if I can't even get into the ring?"
Wesley: "You have a place, Angel. Our battle will be fought elsewhere."
Angel: "It's still their world, Wesley. Structured for power - not truth. - It's their system, and it's one that works. - It works because - there is no guilt - there is no torment, no consequences. - It's pure. - I remember what that was like. - Sometimes I miss that clarity."

Notice the repetition of the word 'pure'! There's even a mention of Holland Manners in this episode, and none of that is co-incidence. 'Blind Date' was all about Manners testing Lindsey... and in the end Lindsey chose W&H. Remember Lee being killed? Please compare Holland Manners then and the Angel we now have. Not so very different are they? Killing employees if they refuse to fall in line... And of course this time it's Gunn getting the guilty client off, not Lindsey! W&H don't want Angel dead, they want him dark - and they're definitely getting there!

Speaking of Lindsey, I have to mention this:

Lindsey: "The key to Wolfram and Hart: don't let them make you play their game. - You gotta make them play yours."
Angel: "Thanks. I'll keep that in mind."
'Dead End'

In the beginning of S5, Angel is playing their game... and when he finds a way to make them play his game the stakes have been raised unbearbly high. ::loves S5::

Just Rewards
I'm working on a long Spike&Angel essay inspired by this ep, so instead I'll go with silly. I was thinking of writing out how all (well some) of the different fandom groups reacted to Spike being on the show (since I was actually following fandom for the first time and noticed this stuff):

Spike fans: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! [/incoherent joy]

Angel fans: Shirtless!Angel! Woohoo! [mutter: TWO YEARS we've been waiting for this!] Oh and Petty!Angel! Yay!

Spuffy shippers: Why didn't they show the 'I love you'? Although he *did* ask after her straight away! Now CALL HER!

Spangel shippers: Spike in Angel's bedroom! Spike saying he's Angel's date! Lots and lots and lots of snark! *pop Champagne, write lots of pr0n and already love S5 to infinity and beyond*

Spike/Fred shippers: We knew it! Spike needs someone *nice* who'll *appreciate* him - not like that nasty Buffy! [Rest of fandom: Yeah, whatever.]

Spike haters: Spike has ruined AtS! *sulk*

(Do you have any that you think I should add?)

Unleashed
This is such a sweet episode! I don't think I've actually re-watched it since it first aired, when mostly I was impatient, but I *love* the Angel/Nina interactions - and they're all so HAPPY! The last scene with everyone in Angel's appartment, ordering Chinese and being friendly... *SNIFF* It's like that breakfast scene at the end of 'Parting Gifts'. Utterly lovely, but so, so bittersweet knowing what'll become of them all...

Comments

[elisi]

I have to seriously question his judgement.
He has very strange tastes, but overall his judgment ain't too bad...

Also, the final season should have been spent exploring an AtS character, not one that BtVS has done to death.
Oh but that isn't it at all! Spike on AtS is All. About. Angel! He's his shadow, his mirror, his past come to life, his ideal, his nightmare... I'm not going into any detail since I'm in the middle of writing an essay about his role on AtS, but re. that specific point read this essay by thedeadlyhook: Dude, where's my soul? Spike was *necessary* in S5!

I've noticed in the decay of both shows that they keep writing better individual moments and episodes, but that the larger arcs become worse, and truly stupid elements are introduced.
Oh I'm the opposite - I think the shows got better and better as they went on. I love the continuity, symbolism, themes, seeing larger patterns etc, which the later seasons have in far greater measure. :)

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

overall his judgment ain't too bad...
I agree with some of what he said, but the way he said it irked me.

Spike on AtS is All. About. Angel!

I don't much care for that, see. I'd prefer Spike to be all about Spike, and Angel to be about the character of that name. Not all about, though; Angel doesn't interest me half as much as the group dynamics do, and those faded away this season.

Oh I'm the opposite - I think the shows got better and better as they went on. I love the continuity, symbolism, themes, seeing larger patterns etc, which the later seasons have in far greater measure.

I love BtVS S6 and individual episodes of BtVS S7 and AtS S4&5, but I thought both final seasons cared little about the supporting characters, and I'm not fond of some of the plot lines. Season Six and dark Willow were wonderful except for the magic=crack story line. "It's not that Willow was growing increasingly more controlling and abusive, she just picked up a bad crack habit." Season Six would make so much sense without the annoying and exculpating metaphor; it's a real disappointment it got put in. Season Seven had some amazing episodes (Selfless, CWDP, Storyteller) and Andrew, but not only did it bring back the weakest villain from one of the weakest episodes, it made that the center of things so unlike the magiccrack, you couldn't get away from it. I've already explained my problems with AtS S5 (and thedeadlyhook explains it much better than I), and I don't remember AtS S4 all that well, except for Deep Down, The House Always Wins, Supersymmetry, and the two horrid love triangles. As you might have guessed from the comment about Amends, I'm not as much a fan of AtS. ;) I suppose I'm not so much a fan of heavy arcing, either. I think Buffy S3 was a very good pattern: the arc is being built all season, but only towards the end of the season does it actually take over the show.

[elisi]

I agree with some of what he said, but the way he said it irked me.
It's Usenet. *shrugs*

I'd prefer Spike to be all about Spike, and Angel to be about the character of that name.
Well it's that *also* - although most of all it's about the interplay between the two! ::loves S5 and all the slashy goodness:: *g*

Angel doesn't interest me half as much as the group dynamics do
I see. Well yes then, I can understand where you're coming from. But then - as Angel remarked in 'Home' - W&H's strategy was very obviously 'divide and conquer'.

Season Six and dark Willow were wonderful except for the magic=crack story line.
You know, I'm not sure that we were ever supposed to take that at face value. Yes I think that Rack's stuff was addictive, but it was Willow & friends who decided that *all* magic was bad. (I wrote this huge long essay about Metaphors in S6 if you want to know what I think of Willow's storyline in that season. It's all divided up into characters, so you neededn't read the whole thing.)

it made that the center of things so unlike the magiccrack, you couldn't get away from it.
Of course! It's inside them all! I *love* The First, because the battles (like in S6) are all internal. To quote molly_may (in this post):

To me (and I know this doesn't qualify as an original thought), the First is almost entirely a metaphor. Really, it brings back the metaphor to an extent that the series hadn't used since the early seasons, but it does it in a more oblique way than the early seasons did. [...] What the First really is is the worst fears and doubts of the characters themselves, the thing that keeps them from using their power to its full extent, or stops them from doing the right thing, or exploits their weaknesses so that they actively do the wrong thing.

(And since I am obviously on a (self-)pimping streak, here's an essay I wrote a while ago: Epiphany: I understand The First Evil!

I suppose I'm not so much a fan of heavy arcing, either.
And AtS is mostly about arc, so I can see why that wouldn't work for you (but it's is one reason I love it). I really like S3, but wish there had been *more* arc... that said it is chockfull of outstanding standalone episodes, so I'm not going to complain! ;)

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

But then - as Angel remarked in 'Home' - W&H's strategy was very obviously 'divide and conquer'.

It all makes sense. I just don't like it. AtS S2 (probably my favourite season) shows a rift without neglecting the others in favour of Angel.

You know, I'm not sure that we were ever supposed to take that at face value. Yes I think that Rack's stuff was addictive, but it was Willow & friends who decided that *all* magic was bad.

I think we were, especially given that the characters did. It can be fanwanked into quality, but as it stands, I think magic!crack was a sloppy add-on to cover up Willow's control freak storyline (because someone high up didn't like it? I don't know).

And AtS is mostly about arc, so I can see why that wouldn't work for you (but it's is one reason I love it).

It's not the arcs that are my basic problem with AtS, it's the destiny. As someone else said, BtVS is about good works, while AtS is about grace. I'm just not keen on the whole helpless-before-fate angle. I prefer to think that the most important thing is that people try to do their best, and live or fall by that. In fact, I can quote one of my favourite passages from AtS:

Kate: "My whole life has been about being a cop. If I'm not part of the force it's like nothing I do means anything."
Angel, still looking pretty beat up: "It doesn't."
Kate: "Doesn't what?"
Angel: "Mean anything. In the greater scheme or the big picture, nothing we do matters. There's no grand plan, no big win."
Kate: "You seem kind of chipper about that."
Angel: "Well, I guess I kinda - worked it out. If there is no great glorious end to all this, if - nothing we do matters, - then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today. - I fought for so long. For redemption, for a reward - finally just to beat the other guy, but... I never got it."
Kate: "And now you do?"
Angel: "Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because - I don't think people should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness - is the greatest thing in the world."

Okay, that was gratuitous quotage. But we're all fans here, so we can forgive these things. Right? Actually, stop me, or I'll be quoting Spike's speech on why the world is worth saving, which follows from Angel's bit, but not from what we were originally discussing. There are just moments in the shows that completely click, you know? *wanders off in happy fangirl daze*

[elisi]

I just don't like it.
Well there's no cure for that! *g* And since I forgot to say it before, then I love Gunn's arc in S5 (*finally* they did something with him!) and think that Spike's journey was very good and necessary... choosing to be a Champion for himself, rather than for Buffy's sake.

I'm just not keen on the whole helpless-before-fate angle. I prefer to think that the most important thing is that people try to do their best, and live or fall by that.
Well I *love* that quote too, and it is *central* to AtS. As for the fate thing... well these quotes say it perfectly:

I've always loved Angel differently to the way I loved Buffy. Once upon a time I said that Buffy was character-driven where Angel is theme-driven, that sometimes in Angel it felt like the characters were subservient to the story. And now I start to see that that was the point of Angel; that it was about characters trying to be bigger than the story they were in. It was a battle, character versus story, and the answer was always that you could only fight your story so far. That in the end you'd have to seize your story, whichever point of that story you'd find yourself at, and make it yours. I think that's what Angel leaves with me. It's your story. Tell it.
the_royal_anna, Not Fade Away.

And what I always loved best about the Buffyverse was that it wasn’t always about getting out of the hole. Sometimes you can't get out of the hole, and you can’t sit around waiting until you do. You have to make a difference where you are, as you are. That's the point.
the_royal_anna, Power Play.

Buffy was a show about growing up, Angel was about trying to live in this world. Different battles, different message. Buffy ends with our heroes with a world of opportunity. Angel ends with a battle that'll never end. And I honestly couldn't say which one I love the most.

*is also in happy fangirl daze*

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

And since I forgot to say it before, then I love Gunn's arc in S5 (*finally* they did something with him!)

Oh, I do too. I wish they'd paid more attention to him, but my love for Gunn was really inspired by seeing him first in S5, where he is the only one who really believes in what they're doing and dresses snappily and sings G&S.

Buffy was a show about growing up, Angel was about trying to live in this world. Different battles, different message. Buffy ends with our heroes with a world of opportunity. Angel ends with a battle that'll never end. And I honestly couldn't say which one I love the most.

I really like the message of the last scene of Angel, but I don't like the rest of the ending, which seems more about making foolish stands than trying to deal with the world as it is and making it better. Gunn really embodies that vision in S5, and I'm sad that he too chose to make a stand (though his last day with Anne was great). I'm also disappointed that they backed down from "this is the home office" to "the evil in this world is the product of a demon conspiracy". ...You see, not only can I sit around quoting Angel all day, but I can also sit around complaining about Angel all day! Buffy's ending made more sense in term of the arc of the show, even if there were certain flaws. If only Angel's wrap-up had been as in tune with its last shot: "Let's get to work."

[elisi]

where he is the only one who really believes in what they're doing and dresses snappily and sings G&S.
Ah, but he's falling faster than anyone else and it all turns into a tragedy! Wonderful stuff. :)

Gunn really embodies that vision in S5
Hmmmm, I'm not so sure. OK, he's very gung-ho etc, but it's very much like when he sold his soul for a truck... he's got the fire for 'the mission', but he takes a short-cut. And the mission wasn't about making the world better with the stroke of a pen, it was about saving souls.

though his last day with Anne was great
Anne is the perfect embodiment of AtS's message. *Love* that scene!

I'm also disappointed that they backed down from "this is the home office" to "the evil in this world is the product of a demon conspiracy"
Well the 'Home Office' bit was just bluff apparently, designed to get Angel down:

Lindsey: "Darla, what's wrong? (Sees the ring) What is this? (Takes it from her) Where did you get this?"
Darla shrugs: "What's the difference? Doesn't work anyway."
Lindsey: "No, of course it doesn't work, because after Angel stole it there was a disenchanting ceremony. It took half the meeting. How did you get this?"
'Epiphany'

But I don't see it as them backing down from that - more seizing it and showing how it works. People are miserable and nasty, and W&H are *exploiting* that. Using it to fuel their apocalypse, which personally I find very clever!

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

OK, he's very gung-ho etc, but it's very much like when he sold his soul for a truck... he's got the fire for 'the mission', but he takes a short-cut.

It's true. He took a short cut and paid the price. Twice, with Fred's death and then with Wesley "Psycho Much?" Wyndham-Pryce. *hugs Gunn* My own hubristic tragic hero!

Well the 'Home Office' bit was just bluff apparently, designed to get Angel down

Oh, I forgot about that! It's been a while since I rewatched AtS.

People are miserable and nasty, and W&H are *exploiting* that.

I though it came off as saying evil is imposed from the outside. Again, some rewatching may be in order, but that was the strong impression I got.

And I still don't understand what was smart about Angel's plan. Way to go, Angel, you provoked the apocalypse!

[elisi]

*hugs Gunn* My own hubristic tragic hero!
*hugs him too*

And I still don't understand what was smart about Angel's plan. Way to go, Angel, you provoked the apocalypse!

"We can't bring down the senior partners, but for one bright, shining moment, we can show them that they don't own us."

Me, I just love it. :) Partly, because just like The Father Will Kill The Son it's a prophecy come true in the most unexpected way: 'The vampire with a soul will be a big player in the apocalypse, but no one knows what side he'll be on.' And even watching it, we don't know. Well he's on the side of good, but the consequences will be dire. I love me some shades of grey!

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

It's an adolescent gesture that endangers the lives of all LA (or so I infer). That's not the note I want the show to go out on, especially not when it seems the show is endorsing what Angel & co. is doing as the right thing.

It rather contradicts the message that the last shot and most of Angel sends, which is that you have to keep struggling with a less than perfect world. Rather than do that, Angel would go out in a blaze of stupidity glory. I really need to rewatch the earlier seasons, which do much better message-wise, IMO.

[elisi]

Hmmmm. Here's a snippet from an interview with David Fury:

FURY: Again, we had planned this [the finale] very early on. The basic idea was to discover who the architects of the apocalypse were and then were going to do this Godfather-like massacre where all of our characters were going to go killing each of them, and the last beat of the episode would be Angel and whoever was left of his crew about to launch into the apocalypse. You know, "Let's go, let's move…whatever."

My thought on that is, that's the perfect way to end the show. The point of Buffy was always girl power and showing that power. The point of Angel was always that the fight never ends. He'll always fight. It's an eternity of fighting. You can't ever win but the fight is worth fighting. That was a perfect 'going out' scene - you know, the Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid sort of we're going up against impossible odds and probably die? That's the perfect way to end the series, and anybody who says otherwise is dumb.

I know what you're saying - that the message of 'helping the helpless' got lost - but then really that disappeared somewhere in S4, when Jasmine's apocalypse got underway and the 'detective side' went away (and Cordy wasn't there with her visions). Come S5, we have *Spike* taking over Angel's original role (I'm going to post an essay on Spike & Angel tomorrow btw, so won't go into more detail here), because Angel has moved on... What I like about that, is the fact that the story focusses far more centrally on Angel himself and his story. Buffy had a different Big Bad every year, but Angel always had W&H, and it was made clear that the only reason they let him live was because he was a major player in their apocalypse - only no one knew what side he'd be on. To end the show with him finally becoming that player (and still not being able to tell what side he was helping the most) was immensely satisfying to me. (And as I said, we see people like Anne carrying on his original mission.)

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

And as I said, we see people like Anne carrying on his original mission.

And that's why Anne is awesome. Sister Sunshine. ;)