Sort of meta: I'm Just A Traveller (Thoughts on the 13th Doctor)

[elisi]

Thoughts on the Doctor in S11, a few minor spoilers for the season so far.

N.B. This is not the meta café - this is just a custard cream to go with your tea. :)

The Doctor in S11 is quite different to what we are used to. There are no big victories, no speeches, no trading on her fame or inherent power, no using her name as a weapon.

Some people laud this, some people dislike it. This Tumblr post lays out some interesting points - please go read it, then come back to me:

What do Ryan, Yaz, and Graham actually know about the Doctor?

Now, from a Doylist perspective, maybe Chibnall just wants to return to a more Classic Who mould, maybe he dislikes the Doctor as the all-powerful Lonely God and just wants her to be a renegade traveller like she was in the beginning.

The Watsonian take is far more interesting though.

I have written extensively about how Moffat put the show and the Doctor back together, and we can follow the development quite clearly, right from the first real, serious check on what he had become:

DOCTOR: You think I wanted this? I didn't do this. This, this wasn't me!
RIVER: This was exactly you. All this. All of it. You make them so afraid. When you began, all those years ago, sailing off to see the universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name. Doctor. The word for healer and wise man throughout the universe. We get that word from you, you know. But if you carry on the way you are, what might that word come to mean? To the people of the Gamma Forests, the word Doctor means mighty warrior. How far you've come.
A Good Man Goes To War

And then onto Twelve who turned that problem inwards (‘Am I a good man?’) until he found the answer:

DOCTOR: I really didn't know. I wasn't sure. You lose sight sometimes. Thank you! I am not a good man! I am not a bad man. I am not a hero. And I'm definitely not a president. And no, I'm not an officer. Do you know what I am? I am an idiot, with a box and a screwdriver. Just passing through, helping out, learning.
Death in Heaven

Now, having this epiphany this didn’t automatically make things easier, but it certainly highlighted the way forward, even as Twelve clearly decided that he was at the end of his life anyway. But then came Twice Upon a Time, and this moment:

GLASS WOMAN: The Doctor has walked in blood through all of time and space. The Doctor has many names.
DAVROS [OC]: The Destroyer of Worlds.
GLASS WOMAN: The Imp of the Pandorica. The Shadow of the Valeyard. The Beast of Trenzalore. The Butcher of Skull Moon. The Last Tree of Garsennon. The Destroyer of Skaro. He is the Doctor of War.
(The images disappear.)
DOCTOR 1: What, what was that?
Twice Upon A Time

I see this moment as the one driving the very last step, the Doctor seeing himself through his past self's eyes. Much like Kazran did not change his ways until he was faced with his child-self, so the Doctor's final change is quite possibly due to this encounter - River asks him what his younger self would think of him, but an idea is never as impactful as a personal experience: to see the First Doctor recoil, bewildered and appalled at what he will become. Is it any wonder that Thirteen strives to be someone her first incarnation would understand and approve of? Trying her best to find her way back to what her intentions were back when she first set off to see the universe.

And then of course there is One’s later comment, just before they go their separate ways:

DOCTOR 1: You've saved him.
DOCTOR: Both of them. Never hurts, a couple fewer dead people on the battlefield.
DOCTOR 1: So that's what it means to be a doctor of war.
Twice Upon A Time

The Doctor has been 'The Doctor of War' (or 'the War Doctor') ever since Eight made the fateful decision to drink of the Sisterhood's potion. A potion that was more symbolic than anything else - it was about deliberately calling forth all his darker traits and leaving 'the Doctor' behind. And regenerating into Nine did not magically change anything back; The Day of the Doctor follows the Doctor down the years, through Ten and Eleven, four hundred years of having committed genocide hanging over him. Is it any wonder Twelve delves into himself to puzzle out what kind of man he really is? And despite everything, he still dies on a battlefield, war trailing in his wake.

And don't forget: Twelve wanted to die. He was old and tired and exhausted. He eventually capitulated, agreeing to regenerate, but it's no wonder that going forwards the Doctor wants to simply 'save a few people on the battlefield', rather than fight the war. To see the 'little people', rather than trying to topple the ones at the top.

So I think that the Doctor – once he’d decided to regenerate after all – made a conscious decision to step back, to use a new regeneration to get ‘back to basics’; to no longer trade in on her fame and reputation but just solve problems on a day to day basis, rather than play judge, jury & executioner - or god, handing out life and death. And in her first episode she lays out her agenda very clearly:

DOCTOR: And if there is one thing I'm certain of, when people need help, I never refuse.
~
DOCTOR: We're all capable of the most incredible change. We can evolve while still staying true to who we are. We can honour who we've been and choose who we want to be next. […] I'm the Doctor. Sorting out fair play throughout the universe.
~
YASMIN: Is this normal for you?
DOCTOR: I'm just a traveller. Sometimes I see things need fixing, I do what I can.
The Woman Who Fell To Earth

So, the Doctor is starting anew. She wants to fix things, to 'sort out fair play', to be a referee - and these are all roles away from the spot-light. Where the Doctor would usually step in and take charge, Thirteen does her best to listen to others and find out what actually needs doing (or not) rather than impose her will.

She has of course tried to let go of her past before:

ROSE: Where are you from?
DOCTOR: What does it matter?
ROSE: Tell me who you are!
DOCTOR: This is who I am, right here, right now, all right? All that counts is here and now, and this is me.
The End of the World

Except Thirteen is not a damaged shell of a man who has spent untold years fighting in the worst war in the universe. She has done the work, faced and fought her demons and chosen what kind of person she wants to be, going forward. There is no defensiveness in her replies to her companions' questions, just simple, honest answers - something which may very well be as much for her own benefit as for theirs, re-enforcing to herself what her new path is.

So, the new companions have no reason to believe that she is anything more than what they have seen – an alien time traveller who is incredibly smart and good at technology. However, I think there is a definite sense that she tries to keep her new friends in the dark as to who she really is and what her history has been, what she is capable of. Mostly by omission, but in this scene she actively tries to shut down a conversation that could raise unwelcome questions:

CICERO: Wait. I've heard that name. Aren't you in the Book of Celebrants? Isn't there a whole chapter about you?
DOCTOR: Me? No. Very common name. Anyway, lovely chatting. Must be off. Hope you all get better soon. (She bundles her companions out the door, before sticking her head back around the corner.) I'd say it was more of a volume than a chapter. Just so you know.
The Tsuranga Conundrum

The big question is – will we get a big moment? Will the Doctor be able to live her life the way she wants, or will she be pushed to use/trade on her power/history? To properly use it?

DOCTOR: Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I liked. That is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor, and you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up.
(There is a pause, then the shadows withdraw.)
VASHDA NERADA: You have one day.
Forest of the Dead

DOCTOR: Okay. One more. Just one. Is this world protected? Because you're not the first lot to come here. Oh, there have been so many.
(The projection shows the Daleks et al.)
DOCTOR: And what you've got to ask is, what happened to them?
(A run through of all the previous Doctors, then this Doctor steps through the projection with a jacket and bow tie.)
DOCTOR: Hello. I'm the Doctor. Basically, run.
The Eleventh Hour

DOCTOR: Do me a favour. The Fatality Index. Look up The Doctor.
RAFANDO: You have an entry, just like any other sentient being.
DOCTOR: Under Cause Of Death.
(Rafando works his wrist computer. It ticks rapidly as it runs through all matching entries.)
RAFANDO: You do seem to have an impressive record of fatalities credited to you.
(The ticking keeps going, and speeds up.)
RAFANDO: A truly remarkable record.
(The guards retreat.)
RAFANDO: Where are you going? He's unarmed! You are unarmed?
DOCTOR: Always.
(The wrist computer still hasn't stopped scrolling through.)
RAFANDO: You stand alone?
DOCTOR: Often.
RAFANDO: You're the one who should be afraid.
DOCTOR: Never.
RAFANDO: Have a nice day, then.
Extremis

And what will her companions say then?

DOCTOR: That thing killed hundreds of people.
ROSE: It's not the one pointing the gun at me.
DOCTOR: I've got to do this. I've got to end it. The Daleks destroyed my home, my people. I've got nothing left.
ROSE: Look at it.
DOCTOR: What's it doing?
ROSE: It's the sunlight, that's all it wants.
DOCTOR: But it can't
ROSE: It couldn't kill Van Statten, it couldn't kill me. It's changing. What about you, Doctor? What the hell are you changing into?
Dalek

DOCTOR: But you've seen it out there. It's beautiful.
DONNA: And it's terrible. That place was flooding and burning and they were dying, and you were stood there like, I don't know, a stranger. And then you made it snow. I mean, you scare me to death.
The Runaway Bride

CLARA: I think I'm more scared of you right now than anything else on that TARDIS.
Journey to the Centre of the Tardis

Because the thing is – making armies turn and run at the mention of her name is nothing more than a normal Tuesday to the Doctor. But 'just passing through, helping out, learning' – that’s a whole different thing. And I can’t find it in me to begrudge her this shot at something new, something simpler. Remember, this is where she stood, not long ago:

DOCTOR: You're not even really here. You're just memories held in glass. Do you know how many of you I could fill? I would shatter you. My testimony would shatter all of you. A life this long, do you understand what it is? It's a battlefield, like this one, and it's empty. Because everyone else has fallen.
Twice Upon A Time

And so she took her own advice:

DOCTOR: You wait a moment, Doctor. Let's get it right. I've got a few things to say to you. Basic stuff first. Never be cruel, never be cowardly, and never, ever eat pears! Remember, hate is always foolish, and love is always wise. Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind. Oh, and you mustn't tell anyone your name. No one would understand it, anyway. Except – Except children. Children can hear it sometimes. If their hearts are in the right place, and the stars are too, children can hear your name. But nobody else. Nobody else, ever. Laugh hard, run fast, be kind.

And so far - she is keeping to it, despite the pain.



But how long can she carry on?

Comments

[watervole]

I'm very much liking the 'small story' scenarios.

partly because history is better told through the lives of the people affected by it, and partly because I'm fed up of story-lines where the entire universe is in danger (again).

[elisi]

partly because history is better told through the lives of the people affected by it, and partly because I'm fed up of story-lines where the entire universe is in danger (again).
Well, we know that the universe will ultimately be OK, or there is no more show. But the little people - that raises the stakes, because anything could happen.

[watervole]

Very good point. Little people, like the Hindu husband, can die - and do - and we can mourn them more than we mourn an army because we have come to know him as a person.

The universe only raises a question of how it will be saved, rather than having the same tension.

[elisi]

The universe only raises a question of how it will be saved, rather than having the same tension.
Well, it all depends on how it's done. The fate of the universe can hang on a single, ordinary person (see Donna in Turn Left for example).

So far, the stories are perfectly fine(and the historicals more than fine) but I would like something more to sink my teeth into. Hence this post, trying to make sense of what is happening. It's not a problem, I'm just delving into Classic Who instead to find more of the specific things that I like.

I have been spoiled for 7 years, so the fact that so many like the current show a lot pleases me as it ought to cater to everyone.

[beccaelizabeth]

good thoughts

[elisi]

Thank you. :)

[rahirah]

I have loved this season so far because its focused upon stories about people rather than grand cosmic tapestries that eventually fall apart under the weight of their own plot twists.

[elisi]

Also it tends to be difficult finding something *bigger*. Chibnall tends to do character stuff well - I'm waiting for this to pay off, and hope the finale will be character centric somehow.

[jerusha]

I've really been enjoying this season.

[elisi]

Which makes me very happy! And also goes to prove that with this show you just have to wait an sooner or later a Doctor/showrunner will turn up who does it for you. :)

[purplefringe]

Going to check back in later when I'm not going out (I feel like I'm always saying this!) but just FYI I *LOVED* this piece of mini-meta, I think it's perfect and insightful and draws a beautiful thread through everything that's happened so far. Also - how do you always find such perfect quotes from the show?? Do you have them all in your head??

[elisi]

Going to check back in later when I'm not going out (I feel like I'm always saying this!)
That's just life.

but just FYI I *LOVED* this piece of mini-meta, I think it's perfect and insightful and draws a beautiful thread through everything that's happened so far.
♥ Partly written out of frustration with how low key everything is, but wanted to delve deeper and see how it fits with the overall arc of what the Doctor has been through...

Also - how do you always find such perfect quotes from the show?? Do you have them all in your head??
Yes and no? Like, I know which quotes I want, and yes, I remember them, but I go to Chakoteya and find them so I can just copy&paste, since I don't have them memorised word for word. :)

(I *am* good at remembering dialogue I guess - someone once observed that it was like the quotes were talking to each other, which I loved. Quite possibly it was you! *g*)

[purplefringe]

I see this moment as the one driving the very last step, the Doctor seeing himself through his past self's eyes. Much like Kazran did not change his ways until he was faced with his child-self, so the Doctor's final change is quite possibly due to this encounter[...]Is it any wonder that Thirteen strives to be someone her first incarnation would understand and approve of?

This is SUCH a good point and analogy <3 I really like this, as the final step.

Is it any wonder Twelve delves into himself to puzzle out what kind of man he really is? And despite everything, he still dies on a battlefield, war trailing in his wake [...] it's no wonder that going forwards the Doctor wants to simply 'save a few people on the battlefield', rather than fight the war. To see the 'little people', rather than trying to topple the ones at the top.

Again, this is such a perfect, crystal clear summary of everything that's jumbled in my head - thank you for spelling it out! (and OH GOD Twelve still dies on a battlefield - and regenerates on another - argh /o\)

She has of course tried to let go of her past before

I rewatched this ep recently, and I still didn't think to put that together! Wonderful comparison - it really highlights how far the Doctor has come. (EVERY TIME I think about that episode, I just think about how Nine took Rose to see the death of her own planet on her first trip, and just facepalm at how much therapy he needed :P It makes me wonder where Thirteen would have taken her crew first, if she'd had a choice over the matter. Also how she would have reacted to that sort of pushiness, that Nine gets from Rose. Yas and co are much more chill.)


Finally, those quotes about companions fearing the Doctor - beautifully chosen. They ARE speaking to each other, across writers and eras! I love Chakoteya, but it's a proper skill to remember even roughly what you're looking for :)

Ok - Who Time!

[purplefringe]

UPDATE POST-WHO:


(SPOILERS)


I loved that ep :D The noise I made at the fez scene (which I had avoided watching on CiN) was possibly inhuman. Also the Agatha Christie mention. Also the 'was that too bombastic?' moment (THE META IN THAT) also THIRTEEN'S FACE at the end when Yas asked to see Dan's daughter aaaaah

[elisi]

I found the [fez] clip this morning and flailed muchly! (You should read that post, I am v v happy)

And I forgot the Agatha Cristie line - that was gold. Especially because so often they throw random lines in, but this one tied back to an actual episode. <3

[elisi]

This is SUCH a good point and analogy <3 I really like this, as the final step.
I was rather pleased with it, yes. :D

Again, this is such a perfect, crystal clear summary of everything that's jumbled in my head - thank you for spelling it out! (and OH GOD Twelve still dies on a battlefield - and regenerates on another - argh /o\)
I still haven't written about Twice Upon A Time - maybe this Christmas... (If you're curious, read T.S.Eliot's Little Gidding.) Also Promethia's vid really cemented a lot of things. And having tried to project where Thirteen might go, we were pretty accurate? Much more lowkey, which we could already see in S10. (And hey, this is the first meta I have posted in... I don't even know how long. I look forward to whatever yo do with it in vid form once the season is over.)

I rewatched this ep recently, and I still didn't think to put that together!
Well, it's not the most natural of things to compare - the thing with Thirteen is the *lack* of defensiveness, and it's difficult to appreciate something that isn't there.

EVERY TIME I think about that episode, I just think about how Nine took Rose to see the death of her own planet on her first trip, and just facepalm at how much therapy he needed :P
This. Poor, poor Nine. Also, I need to watch DotD and then Rose. (I also got the book of Rose, it was fun & fleshed stuff out a lot. But it was just a book, but a four dimensional wonder & joy.)

It makes me wonder where Thirteen would have taken her crew first, if she'd had a choice over the matter. Also how she would have reacted to that sort of pushiness, that Nine gets from Rose. Yas and co are much more chill.
Yes, it's difficult to compare because the situations are so different. But look at Ten & Martha, where he lies to her to feel better... Thirteen is SO MUCH less damaged.

Finally, those quotes about companions fearing the Doctor - beautifully chosen. They ARE speaking to each other, across writers and eras!
55 years of show... One long story. ♥

I love Chakoteya, but it's a proper skill to remember even roughly what you're looking for :)
Thank you, I can't really help it...

[purplefringe]

I look forward to whatever yo do with it in vid form once the season is over.

I have no particular vid ideas yet, so if anything occurs, hit me up :)

But look at Ten & Martha

Ooooh, another v good point. Am going to think about this some more.

[elisi]

I have no particular vid ideas yet, so if anything occurs, hit me up :)
At the moment? Probably something like Rage Against the Machine. ;)

Ooooh, another v good point. Am going to think about this some more.
Happy thinking!

[maia]

♥ ♥

[elisi]

Thank you.

♥ ♥

[sea_thoughts]

Iiiinteresting.

So you think the control freak side of the Doctor's nature is manifesting in a slightly different way this time in that she's controlling what her companions know about her?

Maybe we're heading to a revelation of what she's been, what she's done. How will they react?

[elisi]

Iiiinteresting.
Thank you. <3

So you think the control freak side of the Doctor's nature is manifesting in a slightly different way this time in that she's controlling what her companions know about her?
Yes. She obviously wants to have a new start, properly, and her reputation and history are a millstone in that regard. So I think the way she behaves and how she deals with things is very deliberate, even as she is more open & honest than any of her predecessors. (Possibly apart from Five, he strikes me as a similar sort of person.)

Maybe we're heading to a revelation of what she's been, what she's done. How will they react?
WELL THAT IS THE QUESTION!!! *grabby hands* Gimme me my Doctor!!

I walked away from the last Great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and I watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time. No space. Just me. I walked in universes where the laws of physics were devised by the mind of a mad man. I've watched universes freeze and creations burn. I've seen things you wouldn't believe. I have lost things you will never understand. And I know things. Secrets that must never be told. Knowledge that must never be spoken. Knowledge that will make parasite gods blaze. So come on, then. Take it! Take it all, baby! Have it! You have it all!

I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

Mainly, fuck yes, even more A Christmas Carol parallels, and thank you for the link.

(thumbs up)

I’m gonna do a combination of Watsonian and Doylist: Moffat, by putting the show and the Doctor back together, soft reboot etc, has made it not only possible, but also *natural* to write the Doctor as/for the Doctor to usually be “just a traveler” instead of the Lonely God.


Regarding your questions of “how long can it go on?”:

1. Well, maybe she’s just that type of Doctor, a Five rather than a Seven, let’s say.

2. She’s been lucky so far, in that she’s mostly met

a)low-level threats, so the rage of a Time Lord is not needed. Nor has she been triggered in a serious way grief-wise ala Rings of Akhaten to have a “moment” and make the companions go “…dude” and wanna take her to therapy. The fact that as you said, she’s in better place when it comes to angst than say, Nine, certainly helps.

b)people/aliens/things who are not that aware of her history and reputation so it doesn’t come up. And, you know, this *should* occasionally happen after Eleven’s decision to try and keep a low profile and erase knowledge about himself a bit. If nothing else, to retroactively make me go “aww, good boy, you’re trying” at him.

3. I think you will agree that the Moffat Edict is not restrictive, but rather stresses limits and frequency. AKA, the name “Doctor” should not come to mean “great warrior”. Making armies turn and run at the mention of it means something. Basically, Oncoming Storm shouldn’t be your modus operandi, dearest, watch it; you’re a madman with a box. The important thing is to try, to strive for the “just a traveller” angle/side of the duality, and henceforth the Doctor does.

That doesn’t mean that the Classic Doctors or post-epiphany Twelve didn’t have their moments of thwarting huge invasions etc (because after all, as Moffat knows, the Oncoming Storm is fun to write). The potential is there, of course it is, it’s always going to be. But there should be a balance, measure, and after AGMGTW there is. Like I said, Thirteen has been lucky so far and landed on the “mad(wo)man with a box” side.

Because, to quote Gandalf: “Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I've found it is the small things; everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay... simple acts of kindness, and love.

Or basically, to quote you and Elliot: Damyata; control/restrain yourselves.
:)

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

It's funny, because in thinking about Resolution, I came back to this post - in that yes, I think (hope) that the Doctor's niceness (/reticence) is deliberate and a direct consequence of trying to distance herself from being the Doctor of War.

(Either that, or this is the point where the Valeyard runs off with the Doctor's darkness, leaving her terribly nice and somewhat ineffectual.)

I like the Eliot quote, and the Tolkien one, but am also not exactly enamoured of Thirteen's approach so far. However, if I view it as a deliberate flaw, it helps.

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

It's funny, because in thinking about Resolution, I came back to this post - in that yes, I think (hope) that the Doctor's niceness (/reticence) is deliberate and a direct consequence of trying to distance herself from being the Doctor of War.
I was under the impression that you liked Resolution?

(Either that, or this is the point where the Valeyard runs off with the Doctor's darkness, leaving her terribly nice and somewhat ineffectual.)
LOL. But nah, I think she'll be okay.


Having now seen all of it, I still think the main problem is the type of stories being chosen -and of course, how they're told. AKA, a hero's only as good as his villain, to quote me "we're all just like '...huh. So this happened. Okay', insert your Simpsons joke here, etc.

I mean, darkness is not warranted if the threat is always let's say, a medium. And that is cool for a bit. I wouldn't mind considering this a breather season. The poor alien deserves a holiday at this point and all that.
It's just that there's a limit? The Unicorn and the Wasp was a lovely episode. But how would we feel if it was the finale? Or if every episode, including that, felt like it?

The Doctor can't exactly showcase her depth, age, and darkness when everything that happens just *feels* like a moderate inconvenience. Dudes were stealing entire PLANETS. There were stakes! How do you make that feel less dramatic and important than a basic Base Under Siege story?! It's the finale, come on, give us something.

This Doctor is just generally nice, under regural circumstances. And that's what we've had up to this point. I think we will see age and darkness and all that good stuff at some point, but since she's more stable and healthy, she *will* need something extraordinary to happen. With this Doctor, we will *need* to go "shit just got real" when it comes to the stakes first.

Now, "stakes" doesn't automatically equal "good episode". But I think you definitely need one or the other to escape the niceness, the M.O. After all, I don't think it's an accident that there was quite a lot of lovely depth to Thirteen in "The Witchfinders" or "It Takes You Away".

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

Stray Series 11 Observations

-Even though I greatly enjoyed several months of going “yes, Twelve, do explosively regenerate with the Tardis in flight, after all, it worked so well the last 4 times you did it, Doctor. No wonder she chucked your stupid arse into the stratosphere immediately afterwards”, well, Tardis, dear, that is some fantastic aim. (thumbs up)

-The salad guy. Wouldn’t it have been great in Resolution, if they were running around and there was like, a “Salad Guy Memorial” in the background?

-My friend observed that Yaz’s nickname sounded a bit like the “yaaaass” meme. So that’s what we both said every time somebody said her name.

-I really enjoyed the dick hologram-race-organiser-bloke from “The Ghost Monument”.

-This series was really obvious with who the random-character-who-is-gonna-die-to-show-the-monster-is-scary was going to be, so we kept making “oh boy, one day ‘till retirement” jokes.

-I really enjoyed “The Tsuranga Conundrum” for some reason. I think it’s not that well-liked?... But I love me a Base Under Siege, and I just found it worldbuilding-y and engaging.

-Nice symbolism with the poppies in “Demons of the Punjab”. Also, I think this is the closest we’ll get to a pure historical? The aliens were there just to observe. Awesome.

-“This is the best thing ever! Never did this when I was a man. (…) Yeah, that's right. My references to body and gender regeneration are all in jest. I'm such a comedian.” Or as I like to call it, That Trans Aesthetic ™. (rimshot)

-We were well ahead of Graham, and so made a bunch of Pulp Fiction jokes and references whenever someone was going about that watch/handling it/looking at it dramatically.

-I like to think that the message of “Kerblam!” wasn’t deliberate. Maybe they just went “ooooh, bubble wrap” and “let’s steal the cool chase scene from the end of Toy Story 2”, and wanted for once to have the twist that the obviously menacing, ominous corporation with the creepy robots wasn’t the villain after all, and didn’t think about the subtext. I mean, it’s happened before. I think it was legitimately surprising. (Plus, canonically, Twelve later indirectly helps bring down space capitalism, so I think we’re good :))

-Fun bit of synchronicity, I wonder what it means, a day before we watched the episodes, one of the theatre-workshop-things I take part in announced that we’re gonna put on Arthur Miller’s The Crucible. So I just went “huh” at The Witchfinders

-My God, that King James actor was such a ham. Such a ham. It was beautiful. Also, the aliens, the Morax, sound quite close to the Lorax. So there were a lot of jokes about various Dr Seuss characters being war criminals. And “I speak for the trees! The trees say fuck you!”

-What the hell were they smoking when they wrote “It Takes You Away”, we want some.

-“Kolos” has a rather unfortunate, rude meaning in Greek, so we kept snickering whenever someone said the name of the planet all seriously.

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

well, Tardis, dear, that is some fantastic aim. (thumbs up)
I hadn't thought of that. Ha.

-The salad guy. Wouldn’t it have been great in Resolution, if they were running around and there was like, a “Salad Guy Memorial” in the background?
Alas, if only.

-My friend observed that Yaz’s nickname sounded a bit like the “yaaaass” meme. So that’s what we both said every time somebody said her name.
Poor Yaz... (please someone write her well! Although apparently the novels are the place to be.)

-I really enjoyed the dick hologram-race-organiser-bloke from “The Ghost Monument”.
I can't believe they got Art Malik and gave him such a tiny part! (Or maybe he just had an afternoon.) Anyway, proper acting legend there.

-This series was really obvious with who the random-character-who-is-gonna-die-to-show-the-monster-is-scary was going to be, so we kept making “oh boy, one day ‘till retirement” jokes.
Or 'There seconds'...

-I really enjoyed “The Tsuranga Conundrum” for some reason. I think it’s not that well-liked?... But I love me a Base Under Siege, and I just found it worldbuilding-y and engaging.
I liked it too! It was just fun and entertaining and the Pting was very different.

-Nice symbolism with the poppies in “Demons of the Punjab”. Also, I think this is the closest we’ll get to a pure historical? The aliens were there just to observe. Awesome.
Yes, it was a beautiful episode. <3

-“This is the best thing ever! Never did this when I was a man. (…) Yeah, that's right. My references to body and gender regeneration are all in jest. I'm such a comedian.” Or as I like to call it, That Trans Aesthetic ™. (rimshot)
LOL. Love it.

-We were well ahead of Graham, and so made a bunch of Pulp Fiction jokes and references whenever someone was going about that watch/handling it/looking at it dramatically.
... Nope, no idea. Splainy please?

-I like to think that the message of “Kerblam!” wasn’t deliberate.
I wish I could do the same. (I linked to the DoWntime review somewhere, but there is also El Sandifer.) Basically it offended me more than any other Doctor Who story, and I include Peri's story in that.

-Fun bit of synchronicity, I wonder what it means, a day before we watched the episodes, one of the theatre-workshop-things I take part in announced that we’re gonna put on Arthur Miller’s The Crucible. So I just went “huh” at The Witchfinders
Ha! Hope you enjoy the production.

My God, that King James actor was such a ham. Such a ham. It was beautiful.
Another big star, but thankfully one they didn't waste. I love nothing more than guest stars who just eat up all the scenery!

Also, the aliens, the Morax, sound quite close to the Lorax. So there were a lot of jokes about various Dr Seuss characters being war criminals. And “I speak for the trees! The trees say fuck you!”
LOL

-What the hell were they smoking when they wrote “It Takes You Away”, we want some.
It Takes You Away was BY FAR the best episode of the season. It's the only episode that I immediately sat down to re-watch, because I found it that captivating.

-“Kolos” has a rather unfortunate, rude meaning in Greek, so we kept snickering whenever someone said the name of the planet all seriously.
Oh excellent. Rude jokes are definitely of the good. :)

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

... Nope, no idea. Splainy please?
Graham makes a Pulp Fiction reference at the end of The Witchfinders. But Demons of the Punjab had that watch as a MacGuffin, which reminded us of the similar watch and its story from Pulp Fiction.

I wish I could do the same. Basically it offended me more than any other Doctor Who story, and I include Peri's story in that.
Well, we can always pretend it never happened. Love and Monsters, DW hates canon like Dawkins hates God, handy plot-hole-eating cracks, etc.

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

Graham makes a Pulp Fiction reference at the end of The Witchfinders. But Demons of the Punjab had that watch as a MacGuffin, which reminded us of the similar watch and its story from Pulp Fiction.
Ahhh.

Well, we can always pretend it never happened. Love and Monsters, DW hates canon like Dawkins hates God, handy plot-hole-eating cracks, etc.
Love and Monsters was just a bit rubbish (and the joke at the end was awful and tasteless), but it wasn't offensive in the same way.

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

Love and Monsters was just a bit rubbish (and the joke at the end was awful and tasteless), but it wasn't offensive in the same way.
Well, yes, but I'm trying to say selective amnesia is a thing, if it helps you.

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

Ah, if only.

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

I was under the impression that you liked Resolution?
I do! And one of the reasons is that it seems to confirm my hypothesis.

LOL. But nah, I think she'll be okay.
It is genuinely the best explanation possible. (I have so many thought on the Valeyard, I love him to absolute pieces! But that's for another post/discussion.)

AKA, a hero's only as good as his villain
Ah Tim Shaw. :( (This is another reason I was happy about Resolution, because at least she had to step up.)

It's just that there's a limit? The Unicorn and the Wasp was a lovely episode. But how would we feel if it was the finale? Or if every episode, including that, felt like it?
To be honest, I wouldn't mind that, since that was a fun episode. (Nevermind the writer, of whom the less said the better...) And I am still trying to work out specifically why I am so unsatisfied (disregarding Kerblam! which just made me very angry and caused me to view everything with suspicion).

Dudes were stealing entire PLANETS. There were stakes! How do you make that feel less dramatic and important than a basic Base Under Siege story?! It's the finale, come on, give us something.
It's weird, isn't it? What I wouldn't give for Six to stride in, pompously laying down the law and being properly outraged.

This Doctor is just generally nice, under regural circumstances. And that's what we've had up to this point. I think we will see age and darkness and all that good stuff at some point, but since she's more stable and healthy, she *will* need something extraordinary to happen. With this Doctor, we will *need* to go "shit just got real" when it comes to the stakes first.
This is why Resolution was so interesting (I will write a proper post about it) - because she was still clinging to 'nice'. I think it's a genuine character flaw (in the same way that Ten was swallowed by man!pain and Twelve was generally abrupt and often insensitive).

After all, I don't think it's an accident that there was quite a lot of lovely depth to Thirteen in "The Witchfinders" or "It Takes You Away".
Good writers! Good writers! My kingdom for good writers!

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

I do! And one of the reasons is that it seems to confirm my hypothesis.
Oh, okay, I misunderstood you.

And I am still trying to work out specifically why I am so unsatisfied
Well, I think we both worked out many possible reasons, and more than one can be to blame.

disregarding Kerblam! which just made me very angry
I noticed! It’s possible that’s why I’m more forgiving –I saw your reaction and expected it to be worse.

This is why Resolution was so interesting (I will write a proper post about it) - because she was still clinging to 'nice'. I think it's a genuine character flaw (in the same way that Ten was swallowed by man!pain and Twelve was generally abrupt and often insensitive).
Oh, I’m with you. But to be fair to Thirteen, various Doctors have exhibited varying degrees of niceness to Daleks in the past, even they deserve a warning, etc. Especially after all the character development of Doctors 9-12, so I wouldn’t necessarily consider it a flaw *here*.
Also, at this point, I wouldn’t say that a single Dalek constitutes extraordinary circumstances/shit just got real for the Doctor. I mean, it’s a regular Tuesday –and she hates Tuesdays, but still, Tuesday. Plus, I follow the theory that the Doctor notices when similar circumstances occur and tries to act accordingly. P.e. Twelve nopes right out of there and lives it to the humans in “Kill the Moon”, because “Waters of Mars” happened, he spells it out in “Thin Ice”, etc. So maybe she’s remembering Nine, and is trying to freak out a bit less and act cool –and yeah, she would freak out way less anyway for obvious reasons, but you get the point.

Good writers! Good writers! My kingdom for good writers!
You’re on! …Wait a minute, you don’t actually have a kingdom, do you?!

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

Well, I think we both worked out many possible reasons, and more than one can be to blame.
Very true. But I am watching my way through Classic Who, and found S22 (the Sixth Doctor's first) perfectly enjoyable, even if it's held up as one of the worst. (And yes, Peri's treatment is atrocious.) But was actively looking forward to watching more, whereas I have zero motivation to watch Thirteen. And that makes me sad.

I noticed! It’s possible that’s why I’m more forgiving –I saw your reaction and expected it to be worse.
As an *episode* it's not bad. But the message is terrible.

Especially after all the character development of Doctors 9-12, so I wouldn’t necessarily consider it a flaw *here*.
Well, considering that it's the main saving grace of my view of the character, I will absolutely call it a flaw! ;)

Also, at this point, I wouldn’t say that a single Dalek constitutes extraordinary circumstances/shit just got real for the Doctor. I mean, it’s a regular Tuesday –and she hates Tuesdays, but still, Tuesday
Which is why I was very relieved when she tackled it like she should. (And that, actually, is the problem. I don't trust the writers, but - thankfully - at least you can't go wrong with a Dalek.)

P.e. Twelve nopes right out of there and lives it to the humans in “Kill the Moon”, because “Waters of Mars” happened, he spells it out in “Thin Ice”, etc. So maybe she’s remembering Nine, and is trying to freak out a bit less and act cool –and yeah, she would freak out way less anyway for obvious reasons, but you get the point.
It all follows, yes. And she is very good with Fixed Points and checking in with people etc etc. But Kerblam! is still unforgivable.

You’re on! …Wait a minute, you don’t actually have a kingdom, do you?!
They don't know that.

Re: I'm from the future!

[(Anonymous)]

But was actively looking forward to watching more, whereas I have zero motivation to watch Thirteen. And that makes me sad.
Well, we’ll always have Paris? Paris being the Moffat years. Also, I think a year of no New Who will generate at least some interest and motivation by itself, if nothing else.

Well, considering that it's the main saving grace of my view of the character, I will absolutely call it a flaw! ;)
You do you! Although I will say, niceness, happiness and calm are hard(er) to make interesting, and as we’ve discussed, Thirteen was quite (or maybe even way too) chill this series. We can always hope for some bad things! and serious conflict! to happen next time and make her interesting. (Or, you know, more good episodes).

But Kerblam! is still unforgivable.
): Well, can I help?

They don't know that.
;)

Re: I'm from the future!

[elisi]

Well, we’ll always have Paris? Paris being the Moffat years.
Oh yes, and the whole rest of the show, all 50+ years.

Also, I think a year of no New Who will generate at least some interest and motivation by itself, if nothing else.
Let's hope so!

Although I will say, niceness, happiness and calm are hard(er) to make interesting, and as we’ve discussed,
Well I'm currently watching Five (who is 'the Nice One') and I love pretty much everything. But then the stories are generally excellent.

): Well, can I help?
Well you can try, but - apart from everything else -the basic issue (so we are told) is massive unemployment. And the answer the story comes up with is 'More terrible, unskilled jobs'. That is the *actual* solution, there is nothing else. The episode LOOKS good, the robots work well, killer bubble wrap is genius, but the actual story? Irredeemable.

[mengu.livejournal.com]

If they get around to actually talking about this, I'll be on board with this era. But they had a series finale and an episode entitled "Resolution" without a word properly poking at it? I'm not willing to put in the effort here. I don't trust them to be worthy of it.

Like—I was this to be a thing, right? So many stories about the Doctor's darkness and arrogance and so on, I really want this to be a conscience decision, that this one has [over-]reacted by honestly changing, and stepping back, being more open and honestly and... more genuinely second-chancey than 10 was, lol. But. I don't trust Chibnall, intellectually. :|

[elisi]

I've avoided writing anything more, because mostly I just get cross. However I might do a lot of smaller posts, trying to dig into things.

But yeah, I don't trust Chibnall either. :( And the sad thing is, that he's good at Dark & Gritty, so why all this... blandness?