![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Spike Essay
It seemed like a few people would like to read this, so I've dug it out, blown off the cobwebs and polished it off! I hope you find it interesting:
Essay: Why Spike stayed in LA and what role he filled in Angel's life
Most people I think see Spike on AtS as a replacement for Cordy - the one who tells Angel where to get off. Which is true to some extent, but I don’t think that’s how it feels to Angel.
So this is my theory as to how Spike replaced Connor in Angel’s world.
To start with Connor, I think that Angel (subconsciously at least) wanted Connor to become a Champion (that dream all fathers have of their son saying “I want to be just like you dad!”). From Deep Down:
Angel: "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. - It's harsh, and cruel. - But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be. - You're not a part of that yet. - I hope you will be."
And of course in Awakening it's part of the 'Perfect Day':
Connor: “... Is this what it feels like, being a champion?”
Angel: “Pretty much.”
Angel continually tries to reach out to Connor and explain to him the meaning of being a champion, but I think Connor is too damaged to go down that path. He has been so messed around (by Holtz and Evil!Cordy/Jasmine) that he cannot recognise real love, and does not understand that Angel loves him. From Home:
Angel: “Ok, look, let me say this. I love you, son.”
Connor: “It's a lie.”
Angel: “It's not.”
Connor: “It's always a lie.”
Post-mindwipe-Connor does however understand love. And, after getting his memories back, is able to look at what happened and see Angel’s love. But, understanding what Angel did for him, he chooses to take his new life and live. From Origin:
Connor: “Hey, can we... get outta here? I'd like to go back... see my parents. (puts down the axe) This whole fighting thing, I'm not... I'm not really sure it's for me.”
Of course in Not Fade Away, he comes back to help his father with Hamilton, but Angel sends him away to live the life that he gave him:
Angel: “Go home...now.”
Connor: “They'll destroy you.”
Angel: “As long as you're OK, they can't... Go!”
--------------------------------------------
Spike on the other hand is not a damaged child, and he has always understood love. He might blame Angel(us) for making him what he became. From Destiny:
Spike: “Drusilla sired me... but you... you made me a monster.”
But he doesn’t need Angel to fix him. Spike had no prophecies, no higher powers telling him what to do - he chose his own destiny. And (as I’ve come to see it) during the course of AtS s5 - he chose to be a champion! That was of course not the original intention when getting the soul. That was an extraordinary venture, but I don't think he ever had time to think about what it meant. First he was crazy, and then he had to help Buffy fight The First Evil. What the soul made him, was not something he contemplated. And then Buffy chose him as her Champion - he found a greater purpose!
But then he came back - as a ghost - and had many months to observe and ponder. He could see Angel struggle with his decision to take over W&H and he heard about the Shashu prophecy. He probably found out a great deal about what Angel Investigations did prior to taking on the lawfirm.
So when he chooses not to go to Buffy after he is re-corporealised, he is trying to find out who he is. He saved the world and died as a champion, but is that really who he is? Is it what he wants to be? From Harm's Way:
Spike: “I was on my way. Had a boat ticket and all. Then I put a little thinking into it. A man can't go out in a bloody blaze of glory, savin' the world, and then show up 3 months later, tumbling off a cruise ship in the south of France. I mean, I'd love to, don't get me wrong, but, uh, it's hard to top an exit like that.”
And I don't think it's really about Buffy - I think it's about him. Can you be a Champion and Love's Bitch? I don't think so - it's a matter of focus, and where your heart lies. Of course these two meshed for Spike in 'Chosen', but do they still? What does it mean to be a souled vampire?
So when ‘Doyle’ comes, Spike goes along with him, since he has nothing better to do, but he never trusts him completely.
In ‘Soul Purpose’ Angel has the magically-induced nightmares of Spike usurping him. And he wakes up to find the dream coming true - Spike is the Peoples Champion, he helps the helpless. (I’ve seen Spike described as ‘Spike, the Vampire Slayer’ at this point.)
Now looking at this from a story-arch point of view, at the exact time ‘Doyle’ gets taken away, Spike gets something much more important - Angel’s respect! From You're Welcome:
Cordelia: “And you called this guy the big hero?”
Spike (to Angel): “You called me a hero?”
Angel: “I didn't know you were eating people.”
Spike: “It was a taste test, you git.”
He obviously gets a bit unsettled by the fact that he has been played by Lindsey, but from then on, he helps people anyway - no more sitting around in stripjoints. And a lot of that probably has to do with Angel calling him a hero, since this was one of the disputed points in Destiny:
Spike: “Here we are, then. Two vampire heroes... competing to wet our whistle with a drink of light, refreshing torment.”
Angel: “Is that what you think you are—a hero?”
So I think, that Spike slowly comes to understand, that what he wants to be - what he is - is a champion. And this is made clear, IMHO, after Fred dies, and he stays in LA (rather than become a 'rouge demonhunter'), and starts working with Angel (more or less).
SPIKE: This is what she would have wanted. It's what *I* want. I don't really like you. Suppose I never will. But this is important, what's happening here. Fred gave her life for it. The least I can do is give what's left of mine. The fight's comin', Angel. We both feel it... and it's gonna be a hell of a lot bigger than Illyria. Things are gonna get ugly. That's where I live.
ETA: And Angel at this point sees him as an equal. From A Hole In The World:
Drogyn: "The power to draw back Illyria lies in there. It requires a champion who has traveled from where it lies to where it belongs."
Angel: "You got two of those right here."
-----------
Now Angel sold out. He gave up the world (and his redemption?) to save Connor. But I think this in the end makes it easier for Angel. When Cordy gives him the visions (or vision, as it turns out), he understands that he can’t concern himself with the small stuff anymore. He has too much power.
But Spike doesn’t. Spike never really becomes a part of W&H. He intuitively rejects it when Wesley and Gunn ask him to join (behind Angel’s back). And I think this is important to Angel. On some level Spike becomes the champion-child that Connor could never be. Because Spike wants to be a champion. He beats Angel to the Cup of Torment. He has always wanted things, and his ties to the world are much stronger than Angel’s. Even as a ghost, he is at times closer to the group than Angel.
And yes, I think Angel signs away the Shanshu. (Or at least he believes he does, which is what matters). Partly because it's part of the ruse, partly because this will re-stabilise the universe (the Senior Partners only fixed it temporarily), but maybe also because this way he gives Spike the chance for a normal life, that he gave Connor. And it's possible that he thinks that Spike deserves it more (although he’ll never admit it). Spike after all sought out a soul, rather than being cursed. Spike automatically started fighting the good fight, rather than sit around for a century brooding. And Spike is family - more younger brother than son, maybe - but the one who knows Angel best. And probably the only one who really understands him. They have so much in common, that it pulls them together. There might be a bit of the same vibe that Buffy-Spike had. Angel knows he can trust Spike, and that he doesn’t have to hold back with him. (And family is clearly a very important thing for Angel - he even goes back to Darla, Dru and Spike after the soul, so the ties must be very strong. And he was ready to die to give Darla another shot at life). And Angel has also had part of the Shanshu - he has a child!
So I think, that in the end Angel sees Spike as a successor, and not a usurper.
Also, just to finish, Spike gave Buffy the normal life she always wanted ('Death is your gift') and maybe he doesn't want to interfere. Because the reasons for the breakup with Angel also apply to Spike - he can't give her children. She will age, he won't. I think he might have his eyes on that Shanshu, and if he gets it, he can be 'the longhaul guy'!
ETA: Another factor for staying might be that for the first time in his life, Spike has actual friends. Angel's team accept him as he is and treat him as an equal, and I think that must be very important to him!
Essay: Why Spike stayed in LA and what role he filled in Angel's life
Most people I think see Spike on AtS as a replacement for Cordy - the one who tells Angel where to get off. Which is true to some extent, but I don’t think that’s how it feels to Angel.
So this is my theory as to how Spike replaced Connor in Angel’s world.
To start with Connor, I think that Angel (subconsciously at least) wanted Connor to become a Champion (that dream all fathers have of their son saying “I want to be just like you dad!”). From Deep Down:
Angel: "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. - It's harsh, and cruel. - But that's why there's us. Champions. It doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered, or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world was what it should be, to show it what it can be. - You're not a part of that yet. - I hope you will be."
And of course in Awakening it's part of the 'Perfect Day':
Connor: “... Is this what it feels like, being a champion?”
Angel: “Pretty much.”
Angel continually tries to reach out to Connor and explain to him the meaning of being a champion, but I think Connor is too damaged to go down that path. He has been so messed around (by Holtz and Evil!Cordy/Jasmine) that he cannot recognise real love, and does not understand that Angel loves him. From Home:
Angel: “Ok, look, let me say this. I love you, son.”
Connor: “It's a lie.”
Angel: “It's not.”
Connor: “It's always a lie.”
Post-mindwipe-Connor does however understand love. And, after getting his memories back, is able to look at what happened and see Angel’s love. But, understanding what Angel did for him, he chooses to take his new life and live. From Origin:
Connor: “Hey, can we... get outta here? I'd like to go back... see my parents. (puts down the axe) This whole fighting thing, I'm not... I'm not really sure it's for me.”
Of course in Not Fade Away, he comes back to help his father with Hamilton, but Angel sends him away to live the life that he gave him:
Angel: “Go home...now.”
Connor: “They'll destroy you.”
Angel: “As long as you're OK, they can't... Go!”
--------------------------------------------
Spike on the other hand is not a damaged child, and he has always understood love. He might blame Angel(us) for making him what he became. From Destiny:
Spike: “Drusilla sired me... but you... you made me a monster.”
But he doesn’t need Angel to fix him. Spike had no prophecies, no higher powers telling him what to do - he chose his own destiny. And (as I’ve come to see it) during the course of AtS s5 - he chose to be a champion! That was of course not the original intention when getting the soul. That was an extraordinary venture, but I don't think he ever had time to think about what it meant. First he was crazy, and then he had to help Buffy fight The First Evil. What the soul made him, was not something he contemplated. And then Buffy chose him as her Champion - he found a greater purpose!
But then he came back - as a ghost - and had many months to observe and ponder. He could see Angel struggle with his decision to take over W&H and he heard about the Shashu prophecy. He probably found out a great deal about what Angel Investigations did prior to taking on the lawfirm.
So when he chooses not to go to Buffy after he is re-corporealised, he is trying to find out who he is. He saved the world and died as a champion, but is that really who he is? Is it what he wants to be? From Harm's Way:
Spike: “I was on my way. Had a boat ticket and all. Then I put a little thinking into it. A man can't go out in a bloody blaze of glory, savin' the world, and then show up 3 months later, tumbling off a cruise ship in the south of France. I mean, I'd love to, don't get me wrong, but, uh, it's hard to top an exit like that.”
And I don't think it's really about Buffy - I think it's about him. Can you be a Champion and Love's Bitch? I don't think so - it's a matter of focus, and where your heart lies. Of course these two meshed for Spike in 'Chosen', but do they still? What does it mean to be a souled vampire?
So when ‘Doyle’ comes, Spike goes along with him, since he has nothing better to do, but he never trusts him completely.
In ‘Soul Purpose’ Angel has the magically-induced nightmares of Spike usurping him. And he wakes up to find the dream coming true - Spike is the Peoples Champion, he helps the helpless. (I’ve seen Spike described as ‘Spike, the Vampire Slayer’ at this point.)
Now looking at this from a story-arch point of view, at the exact time ‘Doyle’ gets taken away, Spike gets something much more important - Angel’s respect! From You're Welcome:
Cordelia: “And you called this guy the big hero?”
Spike (to Angel): “You called me a hero?”
Angel: “I didn't know you were eating people.”
Spike: “It was a taste test, you git.”
He obviously gets a bit unsettled by the fact that he has been played by Lindsey, but from then on, he helps people anyway - no more sitting around in stripjoints. And a lot of that probably has to do with Angel calling him a hero, since this was one of the disputed points in Destiny:
Spike: “Here we are, then. Two vampire heroes... competing to wet our whistle with a drink of light, refreshing torment.”
Angel: “Is that what you think you are—a hero?”
So I think, that Spike slowly comes to understand, that what he wants to be - what he is - is a champion. And this is made clear, IMHO, after Fred dies, and he stays in LA (rather than become a 'rouge demonhunter'), and starts working with Angel (more or less).
SPIKE: This is what she would have wanted. It's what *I* want. I don't really like you. Suppose I never will. But this is important, what's happening here. Fred gave her life for it. The least I can do is give what's left of mine. The fight's comin', Angel. We both feel it... and it's gonna be a hell of a lot bigger than Illyria. Things are gonna get ugly. That's where I live.
ETA: And Angel at this point sees him as an equal. From A Hole In The World:
Drogyn: "The power to draw back Illyria lies in there. It requires a champion who has traveled from where it lies to where it belongs."
Angel: "You got two of those right here."
-----------
Now Angel sold out. He gave up the world (and his redemption?) to save Connor. But I think this in the end makes it easier for Angel. When Cordy gives him the visions (or vision, as it turns out), he understands that he can’t concern himself with the small stuff anymore. He has too much power.
But Spike doesn’t. Spike never really becomes a part of W&H. He intuitively rejects it when Wesley and Gunn ask him to join (behind Angel’s back). And I think this is important to Angel. On some level Spike becomes the champion-child that Connor could never be. Because Spike wants to be a champion. He beats Angel to the Cup of Torment. He has always wanted things, and his ties to the world are much stronger than Angel’s. Even as a ghost, he is at times closer to the group than Angel.
And yes, I think Angel signs away the Shanshu. (Or at least he believes he does, which is what matters). Partly because it's part of the ruse, partly because this will re-stabilise the universe (the Senior Partners only fixed it temporarily), but maybe also because this way he gives Spike the chance for a normal life, that he gave Connor. And it's possible that he thinks that Spike deserves it more (although he’ll never admit it). Spike after all sought out a soul, rather than being cursed. Spike automatically started fighting the good fight, rather than sit around for a century brooding. And Spike is family - more younger brother than son, maybe - but the one who knows Angel best. And probably the only one who really understands him. They have so much in common, that it pulls them together. There might be a bit of the same vibe that Buffy-Spike had. Angel knows he can trust Spike, and that he doesn’t have to hold back with him. (And family is clearly a very important thing for Angel - he even goes back to Darla, Dru and Spike after the soul, so the ties must be very strong. And he was ready to die to give Darla another shot at life). And Angel has also had part of the Shanshu - he has a child!
So I think, that in the end Angel sees Spike as a successor, and not a usurper.
Also, just to finish, Spike gave Buffy the normal life she always wanted ('Death is your gift') and maybe he doesn't want to interfere. Because the reasons for the breakup with Angel also apply to Spike - he can't give her children. She will age, he won't. I think he might have his eyes on that Shanshu, and if he gets it, he can be 'the longhaul guy'!
ETA: Another factor for staying might be that for the first time in his life, Spike has actual friends. Angel's team accept him as he is and treat him as an equal, and I think that must be very important to him!
no subject
Kathleen
no subject
Now that's not how I see it at all... I've been thinking about this all morning, and I'll try to put together a semi-coherent response.
Now when they meet that evening it's Spike who's all avoidy:
It doesn't matter. You're back in the bosom. All's forgiven. And, uh, last night...was just a glitch. A bit of cold comfort from the cellar dweller. Let's don't make a thing out of it.
And Buffy calls him on it:
...This might be the key to everything. And the reason I'm holding it is because of you. Because of the strength that you gave me last night...
And they try to talk about it. He admits that it was the best night of his life and that he's terrified. She says that it did mean something to her. Only at this point she has no clue what. Remember that this girl is hopeless at talking about her feelings:
SPIKE: Were you there with me?
BUFFY: I was.
SPIKE: What does that mean?
BUFFY: I don't know. Does it have to mean something?
SPIKE: No. Not right now.
BUFFY: Maybe when...
SPIKE: No. Let's just leave it.
BUFFY: OK.
SPIKE: We'll go be heroes.
Later when she's talking with Angel she's not able to explain what Spike is to her, except for "He's in my heart". He's not her boyfriend, he's just... what? She doesn't know because it's very new. And there isn't time to find out. Big apocalypse just round the corner and she has to put aside what might be and concentrate on the battle.
Sheesh, sometimes I'm just hopeless at explaining myself. Anyway, here's a link to the best analysis I've ever seen of 'Chosen': Pillsbury Epiphany: Chosen
no subject
Spike's always been good at understanding Buffy - especially after the soul (as he tells her in Never Leave Me). They just 'get' each other on a level nobody else does. Buffy doesn't give Spike the cookie speech, and I don't think she needs to. Because he gets it. She isn't ready. Someday, maybe, but not now:
...I make it through this, and the next thing, and the next thing, and maybe one day I turn around and realize I'm ready. []...Be a long time coming. Years, if ever.
So he just leaves it. She's very young still, and trying to find her way. He is very old and is sensible enough not to pressure her, when he knows she can't give him an answer.
Did that make sense?
no subject
You make some interesting points, and I DO believe that Buffy loved him (but was still swiming in the Nile). He may have even realized it, but I think he knew she was still far from any committment.
I always thought that if she DID meet the boys (like in TGIQ) with both of them Shanshued even and available, she would still not be able to commit. She had lots of baking left to do, she got that right.
I'll read the link when I get home in a short while....you always provide the best links and the most stimulating conversation! I enjoy seeing other points of view (I may not change my mind, but can and do appreciate other angles, other opinions) You always give me food for thought, thanks.
Kathleen
no subject
Oh, definitely. He knows that she's just has lots of baking left... and hey - he's immortal, what's a few years of waiting?
you always provide the best links and the most stimulating conversation!
Squee! You've made my day! :)