#womancard

[elisi]

I miss Hillary Clinton.

— Sarah Lerner (@SarahLerner) February 18, 2017

Penelope Trunk: Grit is overrated; the hardest worker never wins
Especially this part:

I have thought for a long time that all the time management gurus are men because men have huge chunks of time uninterrupted by children. And the workplace is organized for time productivity, whereas the home is organized in a non-linear way that segments time into lots of small chunks interrupted by emergencies/breakdowns/crying etc. The workplace is about using time to get money. The home is about using time to get a nap.

Brigid Schulte talks about women’s time as being like confetti; little chunks float by in an unorganized way and you take them as you can. There’s no grit here; it’s just trying to stay ahead of the next problem. There is no flow because dinner would burn. There is no engagement because cumulative sleep deprivation of raising kids shifts focus to just keeping them alive.

~

MTV: Nerd Alert: The Rise Of The Female Nerd

~

Teen Vogue: 22 Times Your Period Saved Your Life

~

ETA: Another Penelope Trunk, since I'm here:

Feminism fails because women lie to each other about work. Oh, and go Cubs!
But what is a surprise is that she has her own business, Two Penny Blue. I clicked the About section.

And I am SO INCREDIBLY BLOWN AWAY BY THE CRAP SHE DISHES OUT ON HER SITE THAT I’M PRINTING IT ALL HERE. RIGHT NOW.

NO. WAIT. I’M GOING TO ANNOTATE IT.

Comments

[kass]

Oh, wow, that Penelope Trunk article.

[elisi]

Yeah, she's spot-on.

[kaffy_r]

Wow. She's as full of shit as the woman she so dismissively writes about. After reading her "about me" I am reminded anew of the term "humble brag."

Also? That headline is prime click bait.

(Sorry, but everything about this woman, who I've not known about before, has immediately rubbed me the wrong way. I'll try reading her again, possibly, on a better day.)

[owlboy]

Agreed lol

[elisi]

See my reply below. :)

[kaffy_r]

Maybe I'm just grumpy, but jesus harold christ ....

[owlboy]

Im sure shes a lovely person but she reminds me a bit too much of the kind of the kind of women in libertarian circles who would stomp on me for my lack of corporate ambition. Liek sorry im not buying your definition of success. I have my own thx

[elisi]

Im sure shes a lovely person
LOL. Please define 'lovely', because that is not the word I would use.

However, yes, she is all about corporate ambition (no doubt about that ENTJ typing), and is aware that others have a different outlook, but that's obviously not who she is writing for...

[elisi]

Oh she's... um, difficult. But I find her intriguing.

[elisi]

Oh! This makes me happy, in that I get to talk about her more! I am very fond of Penelope Trunk (and have read a good chunk of her blog) even though I have zero interest in how to forge a better career or homeschool my kids. But she interests me. Much like I read Andrew Sullivan religiously, even if I often disagreed.

Wow. She's as full of shit as the woman she so dismissively writes about. After reading her "about me" I am reminded anew of the term "humble brag."
Now there are two sides to this. 1) Her job basically is helping people to get ahead/sell themselves. So obviously her About section will be about what she has done, and how you should want her services and insights if you want to get ahead. (See How to Write a Resume). 2) Not quite sure how exactly statements like 'I decided to be a full-time writer so I did not have to leave my apartment.' and ' I pretty much had a breakdown making the transition to being a mom.' qualify as 'bullshit', it seems pretty to the point.

Because see, this is the reason I read her: She is brutally honest. I guess this is partly her personality (ENTJ - like, 95% of CEOs are ENTJs, they like to get ahead) and partly the fact that she has Aspergers. Or partly just her life and how she tries to tackle it. Maybe. See below.

Her post last week was about how her marriage is breaking down. She has written a first-hand account of 9/11. (There is a tag, where she has collected everything she has written over the years. It's worth your while, especially how she changes her perspective as time goes by.)

In one of them, she observes how the therapy groups afterwards were good for networking. Getting ahead and dealing with horrific trauma are not separate things, she does both. She is also one of the primer people calling out the 'Having It All' culture for working mothers. Hence her annotated rant.

Although if you are not keen to follow loads of links, just read this one:

How to decide how much to reveal about yourself

[owlboy]

She's like the opposite of Aspergers haha. I mean

>>In one of them, she observes how the therapy groups afterwards were good for networking.

Aspies don't network. That's the whole problem :']

[owlboy]

Addendum: not that this is a criticism of HER specifically, i just think someone has convinced her that brusque women must have a social disorder which is kind of sad

[elisi]

See the link below. :)

[owlboy]

From everything I've read she just sounds dyspraxic. social awkwardness =/= autism

[elisi]

Well, how much have you read?

As it happens, I found this post where she specifically talks about being diagnosed and how it affects her life.

[elisi]

Aspies don't network. That's the whole problem :']
Ah, but she tries to work out how to do it. She has written plenty of posts, like f.ex this one: Asperger’s at work: 5 ways to be less annoying

[elisi]

PS. And her most recent post is about Aspergers too!

The secret weapon for helping people with Aspergers succeed as adults

[owlboy]

>>That person has to be good at doing the things the person with Aspergers is not good at doing.

...No shit. Really? ಠ_ಠ

[elisi]

Translation: Don't get married just because you fall in love with someone. Apply ruthless logic.

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

I've had my concerns about the grit-as-buzzword thing. Like promoting hard work and pushing through the unpleasant is definitely good up to a point, but it's also something that, when overdone, produces unhealthy compliance. Which is really good for people in a position to profit (financially or otherwise) from other people's work. (Because the point of "Pushing harder isn't bringing the results I want" is usually well before the point of "My employee/student/subordinate is pushing themselves too hard and not giving me the results I want.")

Although, the bit about women's time is again sending my brain off in the direction of stuff that's For Women not being for me. (At some point, I want to put together some intelligent thoughts on that, because I know I'm an outlier, but I can't be that much of an outlier, and I feel like there can be a meaningful point about how often even feminist sources present Women's Experiences in a way that leaves a large percentage of women out, if I can just put a name on it. There's like a lot of concepts floating around in my head I'm trying to figure out how to fit together.)

[elisi]

but it's also something that, when overdone, produces unhealthy compliance.
*nods a lot*

At some point, I want to put together some intelligent thoughts on that, because I know I'm an outlier, but I can't be that much of an outlier, and I feel like there can be a meaningful point about how often even feminist sources present Women's Experiences in a way that leaves a large percentage of women out, if I can just put a name on it.
I would be interested in reading that. And a lot of Women's Stuff presupposes children, which immediately cuts out a big chunk of women.

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

I read a thing about women with "low gender solidarity" being more likely to hold negative attitudes about other women, and I feel like that pulls into it somehow. And at the same time, I think some of that ties in with how much Women's Stuff is aimed at people who have or want kids, who are straight (a lot more of that, still, than one would think), who like presenting as feminine, who are or plan to be married, and who are within a certain range of the culture's beauty ideals. (And probably aimed heavily at white women - I don't always have the keenest eye for these things, as I'm white and it's harder to spot when you're being included in the default than when you're excluded.) And that connects together in a way I'm still trying to mentally develop.

[elisi]

I read a thing about women with "low gender solidarity" being more likely to hold negative attitudes about other women, and I feel like that pulls into it somehow.
Hm, yes. That and the Straight White Married With Children thing... It excludes, and that is counter-productive. Creates 'us and them'...

And at times like this, it helps to remember that the majority of white women voted for Trump. There are many issues, sadly. :(

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

And like I know for me, what made a difference in terms of how I viewed feminism was getting away from "You are supposed to relate to and identify and share common experiences with everything we're describing" and into "Here are some people who no one is trying to make you identify with, here is a pattern to their experiences pointing to larger social issues" and natural empathy did the rest. (I joined the Peace Corps.) And I'm thinking that less evoking the monolith of Women's Experiences can make for better communication, and actually better connection.

[(Anonymous)]

Although, the bit about women's time is again sending my brain off in the direction of stuff that's For Women not being for me.
This. Pretty much anything that starts off as 'women are like _____,' my brain just goes 'nope.'

Though this particular description of time management is very much my job, which mostly consists of trying to get scraps of things done and stay sane amidst constant interruption and herding of distractible people. And I rather have a feeling that women are over-represented in jobs with similar structures.

[promethia_tenk]

Whoops. This was me. Logged out for some reason.

[elisi]

Replied! :)

[elisi]

This. Pretty much anything that starts off as 'women are like _____,' my brain just goes 'nope.'
Stereotypes are an easy shorthand...

And I rather have a feeling that women are over-represented in jobs with similar structures.
Now that is an interesting point.

[promethia_tenk]

Now that is an interesting point.
Teaching is like this, and women are certainly over-represented there.

I do enjoy listening to anyone badmouth these popular hard-core time management cults. Any time I read about them, my soul just shrivels inside.

[elisi]

Teaching is like this, and women are certainly over-represented there.
*nods a lot*

I do enjoy listening to anyone badmouth these popular hard-core time management cults. Any time I read about them, my soul just shrivels inside.
Penelope is good at attacking that kind of stuff. (ENTJ and has Aspergers. Doesn't mince her words.) Might go add this article to my post actually...

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's like "For women..." "Well, I'm not going to relate to whatever comes next."

[elisi]

And that is very sad.

They should be more specific. 'For working mothers' 'For working single mothers' 'For single women' etc.

[eve11]

At some point, I want to put together some intelligent thoughts on that, because I know I'm an outlier, but I can't be that much of an outlier, and I feel like there can be a meaningful point about how often even feminist sources present Women's Experiences in a way that leaves a large percentage of women out, if I can just put a name on it.

Ditto. I think this way a lot. My perspective is that these social models are good for some things, and not good for others. Like all models and grand theories, it is not good to ignore them, but it is also not good to over-interpret them. The famous quote regarding statistical models is: "All models are wrong; some are useful".

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the Women's Experience model is sometimes used in unhelpful ways, and a lot of people write about it like it's the territory, not the map, which (to venture into painfully overextended metaphor) is difficult if you're all "I see no sign of that river you say should be right in front of me."

[luckweaver.livejournal.com]

I agree with so many of your points here because although I know that my gender is 100% female (okay, maybe I'm 98% sure) I'm a cis-woman who does want children, but has very much their own way of managing time. That and like you said, I don't have the Woman's Experiences that feminist articles seem to think I should have to call myself a feminist. I am comfortable presenting as male and actually do enjoy it. I'm not too good at wording this kind of thing either but I think what I'm trying to say is # Not All Feminists Are The Same? Though I lost the original point early on, there.

[wolfy-writing.livejournal.com]

I get that. And there are much better ways to present feminism than making the shared Women's Experiences so central. I don't have to share the experience of being mommy-tracked at the office or having a male partner who gives himself credit for "helping" or "babysitting" when doing less than his share of the chores to see the problem with those things.

[sea_thoughts]

But how do you define hard work or 'grit'? If your definition is 'first in, last out' then you are not taking into account people's other commitments (not just children but other family members who need assistance, animals, charitable organisations...)

Did you see this?

[elisi]

If your definition is 'first in, last out' then you are not taking into account people's other commitments
Exactly...

Did you see this?
I'd seen the list, but not paired with that video. God, I had forgotten that. 'Let me do the worrying'... :( :( :(

And now they have their fascist king. Ugh, what even is the world.

[sea_thoughts]

She was so gentle with that girl and so reassuring. GDI America.

[elisi]

I Miss Grandma Clinton. :(

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[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the links, honey (I MISS HILLARY, TOO!)

*HUGS*

[elisi]

My pleasure and ALL THE BEST! <3

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for the links!!

[elisi]

My pleasure. I keep gathering them, I have way more than I ever share...