elisi | Bernie endorses Hillary

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Bernie endorses Hillary

Now I've been meaning to write about these two for ages, but time doesn't seem to be my friend...

I even had links & stuff, and I'm sure I saved them, but somewhere along the line I managed to mislay them. Anyway, I'm sure you'd have seen it all before anyway.

The main thing was that I watched Hillary's concession speech in 2008, and Bernie's address to his followers [after it became clear he couldn't win].

Hillary's speech is brilliant. Eloquent, gracious, presidential. And handing over her followers to Obama with a great big bow, urging them to keep fighting.

Bernie's speech (and I believe his endorsement speech followed the same pattern, except for saying 'Vote for Hillary!' at some point *g*) is the same he's given throughout his campaign. Railing against the system, urging reform.

And there are plenty of people on either side who like to tell each other which is worse. Bernie should have endorsed Hillary like she did Obama! Bernie should never sell out, Hillary is a crook!!

However, this misses the point. Obama & Hillary are in many ways alike. No, she doesn't have his charisma etc, but they're both politicians, working the system.

But Bernie is a prophet.

I don't mean in the way people understand the term these days, meaning 'someone who sees the future and brings warning about impending doom'. No, I'm thinking of the Old Testament. Prophets were there so tell the rulers/kings that Something is rotten [in the state of Denmark]. I am reminded of how Dorothy Sayers describes John the Baptist (in her author's notes) in The Man Born to be King (radio plays on Jesus' life - very much recommended for anyone unfamiliar):

JOHN BAPTIST - He is about 31; his voice is harsh and strong and not very flexible - suited to the open air and not the pulpit; his preaching rapid, rough, emphatic; his manner abrupt and authoritative. In his moments of ecstasy he is like an eagle; in his moments of awed humility he is a tamed eagle - but always an eagle, and when his voice is subdued, it turns to hoarseness, not to sweetness. He has no humour, no patience, and a one-track mind.

I'm not saying that Bernie is John the Baptist, but he has that same drive. He has a single goal, and he can see nothing else. It's a good and noble goal, and it is right that there should be a prophet telling people to change.

But prophets are not kings, and they are not leaders - they exist to point out the flaws, and guide those in charge.

So I am very happy that this is apparently exactly what's happening. :)

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I think that's a very perceptive way of putting it - thank you for sharing.

Glad it worked for you. :)

I have seen so many people argue about them, saying that one should be more like the other, which just misses the point!

I just wish he wasn't so arrogant. His attitude throughout the primary has just completely turned me against him, and any influence he might have on Hillary. (whom I've come to respect more and more as the months passed on)

Yes, I'm not sure I like him. His message is important, but he has no grace.

(Have you watched Hillary's concession speech from 2008? It really is brilliant. And the sort of moment, where in defeat someone shows how well suited they are.)

I might have back then, but not sure.

One thing I love about Hillary is how she's dealt with the Black Lives Matter movement. Even when she made a few missteps at the start, she's actually bothered to listen to them, to the point that she's started putting more and more of their issues into her program.

She doesn't like to make promises she knows she can't keep, which might make her ideas seem 'smaller' than Bernie's. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't want things to improve.

It shows how she deals with everything, she actually listens to her voters when they come to her with their problems, and she tries to make things better. She's not afraid to admit when she was wrong about something in the past, and to change when needed.

It's not that she'll just say whatever people want to hear, like some people love to claim, but that she'll try and fight within the structures that exist, even if it's one small step at a time, she'll do what she has to do to get results. And it's that kind of attitude that actually works in real life, it's just a shame that so many Bernie or Bust people just don't get that.

Edited 2016-07-12 21:04 (UTC)

This.

And her knowledge is incredibly impressive. She will know the background, past legislation, what worked, what didn't, what the best path forward will be and how to go about it.

Plus, she just. keeps. going.

Spot on!

Stacey

*HUGS*

Good way to put it. I hope we all wind up happy with this. I will definitely be voting for her. And I'm glad Bernie raised our awareness all around, made it PUBLIC.

Also, also here is a link to his endrosement: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/7/12/1547594/-Bernie-s-Post-Endorsement-Message-to-His-Supporters

Thank you. People are different and are good at different things. Refusing to see that is not good...

But prophets are not kings, and they are not leaders - they exist to point out the flaws, and guide those in charge.

To me this sums up Corbyn to a T. Can all this news stuff just stop for a while now? Please? Can we rest?

Can all this news stuff just stop for a while now? Please? Can we rest?
IF ONLY.

And yes, re. Corbyn. Not that I think Angela Eagle is the person to rally the troops. *sigh*

I've always considered Bernie a bit of a false prophet. He led a lot of young people on a platform that had very little chance of actually becoming law (even though many of his followers didn't realize that). As if, in this extremely polarized country, he's going to set an agenda on the extreme left, and everyone will just say "OK Bernie". And then he kept all the angst going way longer than it should have based on a completely unrealistic idea that he would convince most of the delegates to switch from Hillary to him. Even after it was obvious that Hillary was the presumptive nominee, he continued to give her grief and sometimes was a little nasty. Nope. Don't care for Bernie. I do like that he created a lot of energy on the Democratic side. I hope in the future he makes some contributions that are positive and real-world.

Even after it was obvious that Hillary was the presumptive nominee, he continued to give her grief and sometimes was a little nasty.
Yeah, all this. Too many flying unicorns...

I love him and I would have voted for him if I thought he has a chance in hell. But he doesn't and you nailed one of the reasons why.

PS- John the Baptist is not Old Testament...

But he doesn't and you nailed one of the reasons why.
:)

PS- John the Baptist is not Old Testament...
Very true. However, a) I didn't have a handy description ready for an Old Testament prophet, and b) in temperament & outlook he was very Old Testament. He slots in neatly alongside the others.

That's a very good way of putting it.

Thank you. :)

But prophets are not kings, and they are not leaders - they exist to point out the flaws, and guide those in charge.

I think that prophets actually ARE leaders, in their own way. It's cool that there are people speaking truth to power — guiding it, if you will — but I can't help wondering what it would be like to have the people who see the flaws actually in charge of fixing them.

I do not think that Ms. Clinton and the Dems would have the platform that they have now if it weren't for Mr. Sanders bringing up the issues of so much importance to so many of us. It was the first time I didn't feel like I was being gaslighted by a politician, and I'm glad that he changed the conversation from the usual nothing to something of substance.

I feel better having read his endorsement. The first round of the platform committee was so discouraging that I could practically feel Ms. Clinton pulling rightward. The newest round really gave us (me) something to get excited about. Admittedly, the platform is non-binding, but it points the way four our future (post-election) efforts. Without it, I'd be wondering why I should stay in the party after this election. But then, I am generally more motivated by issues than candidates.

I still do not understand why people insist on calling the vision he has for our society as "flying unicorns" when they are standard issue policies in most, if not all other "first world" countries, or policies that were in place here in my lifetime. It smacks of defeatism to just say, "we can't have nice things, so why try?"

I will support Ms. Clinton, but even more I will work to see the tenets of the platform put into action.

but I can't help wondering what it would be like to have the people who see the flaws actually in charge of fixing them.
The problem is that it's a different skill set. Political change takes time, and compromise, whereas calling out problems takes conviction and communication skills.

I do not think that Ms. Clinton and the Dems would have the platform that they have now if it weren't for Mr. Sanders bringing up the issues of so much importance to so many of us.
That sort of proves my point? He shouted loud enough, so that the direction changed. But Clinton is far better positioned & qualified to make the change happen at a policy level. (Her gift is listening. And then implementing change. I've got a link I'll put up later.)

Without it, I'd be wondering why I should stay in the party after this election. But then, I am generally more motivated by issues than candidates.
Please, come over here where EVERYONE seems to be rubbish, and unable to get anyone excited. We'd give our right arm for a Hillary Clinton.

It smacks of defeatism to just say, "we can't have nice things, so why try?"
Oh you should definitely try. But you're up against a Republican party which views porn as a health crisis, yet wants to shut Planned Parenthood and refuses to fund Zika research. To mention just the first thing to pop into my head. Not to mention the gun thing and... everything else. I mean, keep fighting, absolutely, but it's going to take a lot of time, because the different parties are so very very very far apart.

*sheepishly gets off soap box*

Oh you should definitely try. But you're up against a Republican party which views porn as a health crisis, yet wants to shut Planned Parenthood and refuses to fund Zika research. To mention just the first thing to pop into my head. Not to mention the gun thing and... everything else.

Agreed that we should try. But the points you bring up (porn! guns! Zika!) are not really the things that the Clinton supporters said were "flying unicorns", and many of those things ($15 minimum wage! College! Renewable energy!) are now in the platform. So just when did they stop being "magic" and become just something we should do? It's disingenuous to say that something is impossible when the other candidate wants it, and within reach when your candidate wants it.

I agree with you that Sanders' focus and drive (and harping) was able to change the dialog and move my party in what I consider to be a positive direction. He's a true believer, as you say. Maybe Clinton is the better person to make the changes people are asking for. We'll see. I'm certainly willing to let her try, and more than willing to keep the pressure on to keep her on task.

However, we aren't talking about a rational, effective person who understands the workings of government running against a more conservative person who is likewise rational and understanding. We are talking about a country — and a world — that is sick undo death (possibly literally) of listening to mealy mouthed excuses from its governors about why things are awful.

After reading the polls today, I am worried that the election is going to come down to "political talk" vs. "straight talk" and that politics as usual will be voted down, just as they were in your country. If that happens we will be well and truly fucked, and all the people who said "I liked his ideas, but there was no way he could win, so I didn't vote for him" will have a lot to answer for. Just from an issues perspective, they didn't have the courage of their convictions, and they didn't vote their conscience. I sincerely hope we don't all pay a horrible price for this "necessary compromise". /doomsaying

So just when did they stop being "magic" and become just something we should do? It's disingenuous to say that something is impossible when the other candidate wants it, and within reach when your candidate wants it.
It depends how adaptable they are, I think. There is definitely a tendency to over-generalise, which is always fatal.

I'm certainly willing to let her try, and more than willing to keep the pressure on to keep her on task.
I linked to a very good piece in my latest post! Quite long, but worthwhile.

all the people who said "I liked his ideas, but there was no way he could win, so I didn't vote for him" will have a lot to answer for.
It's more a case of 'Well, ideologically I disagree with Clinton on a, b & c, so I abstained'. Which is the same as handing the election to the comic book villain.

And here's to hoping! Trump just keeps the horrible coming, so he might yet alienate EVERYONE.

It's more a case of 'Well, ideologically I disagree with Clinton on a, b & c, so I abstained'. Which is the same as handing the election to the comic book villain.

It very much sounds like you are saying that if Hillary loses the election, it will be the fault of the diehard Bernie supporters. I do not buy it. It will be the fault of Trump voters. And the fault of the Dems for not convincing those voters that there is a better option.

P.S. Re: you first point above. I think that Sanders has shown in decades of public services that he can be adaptable, even while sticking to his beliefs.

Edited 2016-07-14 20:15 (UTC)

It's more reflecting the particular posts I have come across in the past few days.

Not saying anything against Bernie supporters, more against people of privilege who can afford to decide that 'lesser of two evils' is not good enough for them.

Of course Trump voters matter, but if enough people don't vote the other way it's the same as handing the victory to the greater of the two evils. The GOP base is very very unlikely to change their ideas - it's all those in the middle that need to get out there and make a difference.

As I think you said above, we have just been through this in the UK - a great portion of the 'Leave' votes were protest votes, where people didn't think that their vote would matter.

Every vote matters, and people who think otherwise are fools.

(Why yes, I'm still very very angry. It's not hypothetical, it's something that will have repercussions for years and years, and it will impact MY life and my children's future and *I* was not able to vote. /deep breath, I could rant for an age)

it's all those in the middle that need to get out there and make a difference.

Agreed. As I said above, it's the job of the Dems to give those voters a reason to think that it matters, particularly in "battleground" states. I am worried that the thin gruel of "we can make incremental change!" won't do the trick.

I just heard on the radio someone talking about meeting a woman who plans to vote for Trump, "because he understands my anger" although she has always leaned left before. Those are the people I'm worried about. They don't actually have any idealogical reason to vote for him (does he even have an ideology?) but respond to way he shouts "Something is rotten [in the state of Denmark]." Something IS rotten. It does no good (anymore) to say it isn't.

The question is whether America will vote Leave, too, just because they are fed up with business as usual. I am hopeful they will not, and terrified that they will.

I hear ya. :(

Although here's to hoping!!

I like this distinction. I think it speaks to why I've been slightly put off by Bernie even from the beginning, despite emphatically agreeing with a lot of what he has to say. I know what it's like to have a one-focus mind, and it is such an asset at times, but look . . .

I would make a terrible politician. Just terrible. And I know it's unpopular to say right now, but a government needs politicians.

I would make a terrible politician. Just terrible. And I know it's unpopular to say right now, but a government needs politicians.
It needs GOOD politicians. I presume we MUST have some over here, but they're certainly hiding well... :(

I'd send you some, but they're all needed here or we're all going to end up in the pit : (

Re: the endorsement. I can't say I was expecting it to be enthusiastic. I'm mostly relieved that it's happened at all.

True... And your bad ones are far worse than ours.

And re. the endorsement, then ditto. I read somewhere that people were encouraging him to switch to the greens & run as a third party candidate and it was very worrying.

The only thing third parties ever accomplish is to get popular enough for one of the big two to co-opt their platform and bring it to the masses. That and spoiling elections. Bernie's already accomplished the former. If he'd spare us the latter I'd be deeply grateful.

*nods*

And I think he's well and truly decided to help Hillary. Touch wood.

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