DW 9.03 and 9.04 Under the Lake & Before the Flood

[elisi]

Note: This is not meta. It’s barely a review.

Lots of people (the majority) liked this episode. Here are some reviews:

Tom & Lorenzo

Tor

Dr Who reviews

Den of Geek

The Appreciation Index was 83.


Now, what this episode did, was a pretty much text book Base Under Siege:

- Nice crew (getting picked off, of course)

- Evolving threat (in all sorts of ways)

- Lots of running down corridors

- Nasty big bad

- Timey-wimey-ness

- Clever solution

- Character touches specific to this particular Doctor & companion

- Must also mention the awesomeness of having a disabled character who was brilliant & not tragic ♥

ETA: I think Phil Sandifer got it pretty spot-on in his review of Under the Lake (which he liked a lot):

Recall that Whithouse, when he debuted on the series nearly a decade ago, noted that he’d not been a classic series fan. Indeed, and this is a fact that I don’t think has been remarked upon much, he was the first new series writer for whom their episode was the first Doctor Who they’d ever done; the literal first of the new school. And so this feels, rather fascinatingly, like a classic series homage written by someone for whom the classic series is a slightly alien thing; like Doctor Who being written as a second language.
(x)

Actually, if you wanted to show someone a ‘typical’ Doctor Who episode, with all the touches you could expect, you could do a lot worse than this one. Especially as it had things that were not necessary for the story, but that are part of the ‘verse. Such as (mild grumbling ahead):

- TARDIS overacting/cloister bell

- The Doctor was apparently going to die (AGAIN!)

- The Doctor doing Tell Don’t Show ('They’re ghosts!' 'I want to kiss it to death!') It was as if he had to explain why it was amazing. Ditto the TARDIS over-reacting & his death. As if to having to underline physically that this was really bad. And it wasn’t. It was just a standard base under siege. Maybe it felt particularly jarring coming right off the opener: The Doctor trapped alone on Skaro by Davros in the middle of the Daleks’ city – that’s bad. But as Missy explained so beautifully: The Doctor caught in an impossible situation means that he’s happy… ;)

- Explaining the mechanics of the story. Don’t get me wrong, the intro was very neat. But it was… not very elegant. Moffat did a perfect bootstrap in seven minutes flat, most of which were spent on Ten fanboying over Five. Blink was a whole, elegant episode of bootstrap. I presume the reason it was spelled out so specifically is because it’ll be used later on, possibly during the finale. Much like Missy had the ancient Daleks in the sewer attack the living one, so we knew what would happen once they ‘rose’.


Now I said that there was no meta, and there wasn’t. purplefringe put it best:

Last Saturday - for the first time, probably since 2005, definitely since 2010 - watching Doctor Who was a calming, relaxing experience that actually quietened my brain down. It was...weird. Nice, but weird.

Basically – there were no mirrors. Like, at all. So yeah, I have no thoughts for you. I guess I’m so thrown because The God Complex and A Town Called Mercy held up such incredible mirrors to the Doctor that they’re still relevant - they said something fundamental and brilliant and I love them to pieces. So the complete and utter lack this time round was just bewildering. (I’m used to being overwhelmed with too many mirrors, this is very very strange.)

There were vague mirrors between Bennett and Clara (rather heavy handed, but it led to Lunn/Cass, so no complaints) and there are very tenuous things to be done with the Fisher King and the Doctor and war and dams/water (if we look at the dam as a metaphor for Gallifrey, then bringing it back – extending that crack – could ‘drown’ the universe in war), but that’s not exactly a scintillating insight (it was more or less my only thought after part 1). I guess I was expecting something far more layered and fascinating, since they named their bad guy the Fisher King; keeping my copy of the Wasteland ready. (Ghosts! An actual wasteland!) But no, nothing there. (Unless it comes back later and does something clever then. Never say never. For now, however, I have nothing for you…)

It seems that it’s only those of us with literary pretentions that are unsure about this one. (Phil Sandifer didn’t like it!) So I hope everyone enjoyed it, and that I didn’t harsh anyone’s squee.

Now, bring on the Vikings!!!

Comments

[imyril.livejournal.com]

I will admit to thoroughly enjoying it, and to feeling liberated by the more or less complete lack of meta. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the nuanced episodes, but I do love me some straightforward old-school scifi. And I do have a particular love for Base Under Siege stories.

There were 2 things that bothered me: the labouring of the bootstrap as if it weren't a regular DW device; and almost all the crew character deaths (after all - if the Doctor can and will change a set future in spite of his reservations, it could have been a case of Everybody Lives, and it feels like a very long time since we had one of those).

Still, minor gripes. I had a whale of a time.

[elisi]

I will admit to thoroughly enjoying it, and to feeling liberated by the more or less complete lack of meta. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the nuanced episodes, but I do love me some straightforward old-school scifi. And I do have a particular love for Base Under Siege stories.
This makes me very happy! :) I think my main problem was that I was expecting something like Town Called Mercy and it was quite literally what it said on the tin. And there is nothing wrong with that!

There were 2 things that bothered me: the labouring of the bootstrap as if it weren't a regular DW device
Well, as far as I can tell the bootstrap specifically applies to when there's a clever thing that it all hinges on, but that no one actually thought of, rather than just filling in what happened (the Doctor cheating death in S6 was not a boot strap), so presumably this'll be important.

and almost all the crew character deaths (after all - if the Doctor can and will change a set future in spite of his reservations, it could have been a case of Everybody Lives, and it feels like a very long time since we had one of those).
*nods* I like those. Here's to hoping one's coming soon.

Still, minor gripes. I had a whale of a time.
:D

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Moffat did a perfect bootstrap in seven minutes flat, most of which were spent on Ten fanboying over Five. Blink was a whole, elegant episode of bootstrap.

That was my thought too. It's an elegant little trick, but 90 minutes of story and OMG THE DOCTOR IS GOING TO DIE just to get to that elegant little trick was... we have a saying over here: "That's a lot of screaming for not a lot of wool, said the farmer who sheared a pig." Also, is it just me, or did the Beethoven plot sound a lot more fun?

I was expecting something far more layered and fascinating, since they named their bad guy the Fisher King

Same here. They telegraphed something huge and mythological, and delivered an ordinary romp, padded out to two episodes for no good reason.

Oh well. The next episode has vikings! And Maisie Williams!

[elisi]

"That's a lot of screaming for not a lot of wool, said the farmer who sheared a pig."
*dies* Oh that's BEAUTIFUL!

Also, is it just me, or did the Beethoven plot sound a lot more fun?
But I want him to be real!!!

Same here. They telegraphed something huge and mythological, and delivered an ordinary romp, padded out to two episodes for no good reason.
There should be something in the rules about not being allowed to use the name 'Fisher King' without delivering something suitable dense & mythological/metaphorical.

Oh well. The next episode has vikings! And Maisie Williams!
From what I've heard under my rock of spoiler-phobia, it sounds excellent!

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
Learn more about LiveJournal Ratings in FAQ (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=303).

[elisi]

Well this was... unexpected. Why THIS post? Must be a slow day.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

I agree - I do like nuanced episodes, but having the straight-up sci-fi ones are pretty good too <3

[elisi]

Yes, it's not like it was terrible - technically I can't really fault it.

[sea_thoughts]

For me, Under the Lake built up a lot of expectations that Before the Flood didn't fulfil, let alone exceed. You invoke a lot of mythology and symbolism with a name like the Fisher King... which was wasted because we never found out why he was called that and there seemed to be no connection to the episode beyond a vague aquatic nod. The design and bulk of the monster was truly terrifying on a xenomorph level... and Whithouse didn't do anything with it. Clara didn't get to do anything, either, apart from demonstrate how much further she's progressed/regressed since Danny's death (depending on your POV). I quite liked the Doctor breaking the fourth wall... but it didn't lead to anything except a rather laboured "haha, the Doctor is Beethoven!" moment. O'Donnell was fridged just for Bennett's manpain when she was far more interesting than he was. Lunn/Cass came out of nowhere. I don't object to the idea of the pairing more that we had no indication that there was anything romantic between them until Bennett shoved it in our faces (a bit like Mickey/Martha, although at least we actually saw plenty of interaction between Lunn and Cass). Really, my question would be why do they have to be in a romantic relationship? Because otherwise there's no 'happy ending'? Why is being friends and colleagues such a bad thing?

Here are some things I did like: Cass as a character was amazing, especially the scene where we went into her POV and everything went quiet except for her breathing, brilliant; the Doctor refusing to high five Clara; the callback to Deep Breath where the Doctor left Clara on the side of a closing door, except this time she trusted him to return; Clara's egomania coming out when she wondered why the team weren't comforting her even though she'd demonstrated no concern for any of the team; Cass giving Clara the Look and Clara being very disconcerted to encounter someone she couldn't boss around (the only other person in that category being dead); O'Donnell being a fangirl to the point that she can namecheck the Doctor's recent companions; Clara telling Bennett that all you can do is go on and giving us a glimpse of how much Danny's absence hurts her (both emotionally and in terms of someone who can tell her 'no' and make her reflect); Lunn and Cass in general and as colleagues.

[elisi]

For me, Under the Lake built up a lot of expectations that Before the Flood didn't fulfil, let alone exceed. You invoke a lot of mythology and symbolism with a name like the Fisher King... which was wasted because we never found out why he was called that and there seemed to be no connection to the episode beyond a vague aquatic nod.
Yeah, this. I just wish it'd done something more because there was so much there. Ghosts for a start, and the Doctor's willingness to sacrifice people (and how Clara now takes after him - it'd have been an excellent follow-up to Mummy on the Orient Express), plus the Doctor as the Fisher King... But alas. It was not to be. I am trying to just move on.

Clara didn't get to do anything, either, apart from demonstrate how much further she's progressed/regressed since Danny's death (depending on your POV).
Well, she's embracing travelling far more single-mindedly than before. There's nothing tethering her anymore...

I quite liked the Doctor breaking the fourth wall... but it didn't lead to anything except a rather laboured "haha, the Doctor is Beethoven!" moment.
There MUST be a reason - I'm sure it'll be something they come back to later. Like a Chekov's gun sorta thing.

O'Donnell was fridged just for Bennett's manpain when she was far more interesting than he was.
Yes, they obviously killed her so Clara had someone to 'advise'. But that could have worked very well the other way around too... Guess O'Donnell hurt more?

Really, my question would be why do they have to be in a romantic relationship? Because otherwise there's no 'happy ending'? Why is being friends and colleagues such a bad thing?
Domino effect - Clara advises Bennett, Bennett advises Lunn.

Cass as a character was amazing, especially the scene where we went into her POV and everything went quiet except for her breathing, brilliant;
♥ ♥ ♥

the Doctor refusing to high five Clara
Ah, that just made me sad/nostalgic...



the callback to Deep Breath where the Doctor left Clara on the side of a closing door, except this time she trusted him to return
*nods*

Clara's egomania coming out when she wondered why the team weren't comforting her even though she'd demonstrated no concern for any of the team
Neat Tumblr post pointing out the mirroring w/Missy.

Cass giving Clara the Look and Clara being very disconcerted to encounter someone she couldn't boss around (the only other person in that category being dead)
'I DO that look!' (Loved it)

O'Donnell being a fangirl to the point that she can namecheck the Doctor's recent companions
She was the cutest. I'm sorry she got killed. :(

Clara telling Bennett that all you can do is go on and giving us a glimpse of how much Danny's absence hurts her (both emotionally and in terms of someone who can tell her 'no' and make her reflect)
Yeah, she's... dealing. But not necessarily in the best possible way.

Lunn and Cass in general and as colleagues.
This. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Hi hi! IT WAS SOOTHING. Like, I do wish they hadn't wasted an amazing and meta-laden name like 'The Fisher King' on a completely meta-less and plot-less villain, but actually it was very calming to just watch and enjoy. (Particularly as - as you know, if you read that post - my brain is currently filled with Hamilton! Though I feel SO MUCH BETTER having written it, and actually able to think about other things again, so here's hoping for lots of juicy meta this week). I thought the 'OMG THE DOCTOR IS GOING TO DIE!!!' was unnecessary and OTT and really ought to be reserved for finales and openers. I was v sad that The Black Guy Died First and that O'Donnell was fridged (she was SO GREAT). And I felt that the Avatar-the-Last-Airbender-esque visual effect to show Cass feeling the vibrations of the axe were kind of patronising and icky. But other than that I really enjoyed it! It sounds like I'm complaining, but I'm not. I loved Cass. She and Lunn were a complete delight.

And Claraaaaa oh my baby Clara I'm so sorry for what has happened to you. It's a sort of parallel to the Rose/Ten situation in S2 - the companion is increasingly too wrapped-up in her Doctor!life to care about people in the same way she used to. But in S2, Rose was that way because she was in love, so was completely fixated on the object of her affections. And Ten returned the favour. And whilst other people called them out on it (Jackie, Queen Victoria), they were both too wrapped up in themselves to take it seriously.

But here...Clara is not like this because of Love. She's like this because of Death. She is grieving, even if she doesn't show it. (Control freak Clara only displays the emotions she wants to display. If things are not to her liking they get pushed down and out of sight...) There is very little left for her at home any more (a job that is basically a hobby, her dad, her gran if she's still alive, and I guess maybe a few friends like the Maitlands?) and like the Doctor she is running away from it all. And Twelve, unlike Ten, recognises the dangers of this and so is wary. I'm really hoping this actually bodes well for Clara - after this she needs a happy ending.

[elisi]

Hi hi! IT WAS SOOTHING.
I was SO GLAD I saw your post, because I was worried that we were all being incredibly stupid and blanking on the obvious, but then you had no thoughts either and I was reassured. Also loved your phrasing. ♥ ♥ ♥

Like, I do wish they hadn't wasted an amazing and meta-laden name like 'The Fisher King' on a completely meta-less and plot-less villain, but actually it was very calming to just watch and enjoy.
It was very weird, like you said. :)

Particularly as - as you know, if you read that post - my brain is currently filled with Hamilton! Though I feel SO MUCH BETTER having written it, and actually able to think about other things again, so here's hoping for lots of juicy meta this week
I only skimmed it, as if I am dragged down that particular rabbit hole, I don't want to get spoiled...

I was v sad that The Black Guy Died First and that O'Donnell was fridged (she was SO GREAT). And I felt that the Avatar-the-Last-Airbender-esque visual effect to show Cass feeling the vibrations of the axe were kind of patronising and icky. But other than that I really enjoyed it! It sounds like I'm complaining, but I'm not.
I hear ya! Being able to pin point specific issues does not mean the overall effect was not great! I sort of feel like that with this post - like 'It was not a bad episode! It just didn't do what I expected...'

I loved Cass. She and Lunn were a complete delight.
<3

It's a sort of parallel to the Rose/Ten situation in S2
Promethia and I were theorising about this before the season even started. But with Clara in Ten's place, which makes Twelve Rose... ;)

But here...Clara is not like this because of Love. She's like this because of Death.
See, she is Ten! Running away from heartache and loss. And Twelve (Rose) wants to help, but doesn't quite know how, and is scared they'll lose the other one if they call them out too much.

I'm really hoping this actually bodes well for Clara - after this she needs a happy ending.
This is abossycontrolfreak's theory.

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

I was enjoying abossycontrolfreak's meta right up until the part where she said Clara had to die :-( I see where she's coming from, but NO. DO NOT WANT.

Oooh and re. Clara = Ten and Twelve = Rose - interesting! I like it! Though I think Rose was, at that stage, much blinder to herself than Twelve is. Twelve is *constantly* questioning who and what he is, whereas Rose at that point was very much in denial ('we'll always be alright?')

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

No squee harshed. It was rather a non-thinky type of enjoyment (which was rather odd) and some of the overdoneness was slightly aggravating, but all in all, enjoyable eppies to me, lol!!

*HUGS*

[elisi]

No squee harshed.
Oh good! I worry, as I'm generally the cheerleader, and it feel weird to just go 'Well, that was a thing'.

Glad you liked them. <3

[poniesandphotos.livejournal.com]

I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. Which is how I've felt about most of the current and last season. I'm just not feeling the magic these days. *shrug*

I think part of it is that I'm not that connected to Clara. She doesn't add much to most episodes for me and hasn't for a while. I preferred her before the reveal of why she was the Impossible Girl. I think my disappointment stems from the fact that I LOVED Oswin so much. When she turned into Clara it was a bit of a let down. I'm ready for a new companion.

[elisi]

I'm just not feeling the magic these days. *shrug*
No, it lacks that... Pond-y-ness. (For lack of a better word.) I know what you mean. Maybe it'll never come back. Maybe those were just the best times, and the most perfect moment, and that's that. I hope not, but you never know.

I like Clara, but more on an intellectual level. And she has been the companion forever. Here's to the new one! :) (I loved Oswin too.)

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

I LOVED IT THOUGH. And I would consider myself to be pretty stuffed with literary pretentions, lol... !!

- Must also mention the awesomeness of having a disabled character who was brilliant & not tragic ♥
Amen. I could have done without the tacked on romantic happy ending though.

- The Doctor was apparently going to die (AGAIN!)
Indeed. I really wonder if that's building up to something. Especially with Clara screaming that he wasn't allowed to die while she's still around... (I saw the link to that Tumblr post speculating about Clara's possible death. NOT HERE FOR THAT.)

Blink was a whole, elegant episode of bootstrap.
Preach. Legendary and iconic.

+1 on the villain having no point though. At least it looked cool...

In conclusion: MAISIE WILLIAMS.

[elisi]

I LOVED IT THOUGH.
YAY THAT MAKES ME HAPPY!

And I would consider myself to be pretty stuffed with literary pretentions, lol... !!
Yeah, I'm still trying to work out what it was that didn't sit quite right. Maybe I'm just weird! That said, I liked it well enough, and didn't read more than a few lines of Phil Sandifer's rant before deciding I didn't have time for that. Life's too short to bitch. (Certainly over something so many people enjoyed. <3) Although I guess he has blog-obligations.

Amen. I could have done without the tacked on romantic happy ending though.
But they were so CUTE! She deserved a happy ending.

- The Doctor was apparently going to die (AGAIN!)
Indeed. I really wonder if that's building up to something. Especially with Clara screaming that he wasn't allowed to die while she's still around...
He spent ALL OF S6 DYING. It's old hat. I think it was just Doing Something Big.

(I saw the link to that Tumblr post speculating about Clara's possible death. NOT HERE FOR THAT.)
I'M SORRY. DON'T FOLLOW LINKS.

Blink was a whole, elegant episode of bootstrap.
Preach. Legendary and iconic.
A beautiful episode. (And one which my girls couldn't understand why was considered scary...)

+1 on the villain having no point though. At least it looked cool...
Yes, all the points to the design department.

In conclusion: MAISIE WILLIAMS.
This.

[promethia_tenk]

Indeed. I really wonder if that's building up to something. Especially with Clara screaming that he wasn't allowed to die while she's still around...
You know, I'd kinda buy that? I'm trying to think about possible endings for Clara, and I think a key to it is that you'd want something that speaks to/resolves her control freak issues? Much in the way that Amy's whole arc was about her commitment issues and ATM provided a cap to that. And so much of Clara's arc has involved not allowing the Doctor to die. Two problems I have with this line of thought: 1) Amy was a lot farther along in her growth at this point than Clara is. and 2) the Doctor having to die is so routine it's boring. The Doctor's dying? For real this time? Must be Tuesday . . .

[promethia_tenk]

I think I would have enjoyed it more if I hated it more: at least there would be some complaining to do!

But no. All the symbolisms are evil symbolisms and that's just boring. Which is excellent commentary on the nature of evil, but very, very dull when you're trying to be pretentious about television!

Will brave the wrath of Tumblr by saying Bennett was my favorite.

[elisi]

I think I would have enjoyed it more if I hated it more: at least there would be some complaining to do!
LOL. Ah I do like you. <3

But no. All the symbolisms are evil symbolisms and that's just boring. Which is excellent commentary on the nature of evil, but very, very dull when you're trying to be pretentious about television!
Indeed. But tonight there are vikings. Life is good.

Will brave the wrath of Tumblr by saying Bennett was my favorite.
I have seen posts comparing him to Rory... So they might like him? Also I liked that he was not a very masculine guy, and didn't try to be. Actually was there any overt masculinity going on? Black guy that died first - but then he died. And the white capitalist creep, who was all about the money. But he got killed too... *ponders* Fisher King, obvs., but he doesn't really count.

[calanthe-b.livejournal.com]

Basically – there were no mirrors.

O'Donnell was a Clara mirror. And if we're going away from character: the sonic sunglasses are both (dark) mirror and mask. :)

[elisi]

O'Donnell was a Clara mirror.
O'Donnell? I'd have said Bennett & Cass. (Bennett for the loss and Cass for the critical attitude.)

the sonic sunglasses are both (dark) mirror and mask. :)
True. But they're not inherent to the episode as such.

[davesmusictank.livejournal.com]

I actually did enjoy the two parter.

[elisi]

I think most people did! Which makes me happy. I wish I'd enjoyed it more than I did.

[dweomeroflight.livejournal.com]

It was just OK for me - not good or bad, just meh, and precisely because there were no mirrors. I quoted you in my wordpress review by the way: https://inkashlings.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/doctor-who-review-under-the-lakebefore-the-flood/

I prefer complex Moffat layers lol. I know so many dislike that approach but I LOVE it.

[elisi]

It was just OK for me - not good or bad, just meh, and precisely because there were no mirrors.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Like... it was a thing. Now what?

I quoted you in my wordpress review by the way
I SAW!! (I'm subscribed to the thing that alerts people to new posts.) I was going to send you a message to say thank you, and how flattered I was, but life... *waves hands* I only managed to get my own review of The Girl Who Died out a few hours before the next episode.

I prefer complex Moffat layers lol. I know so many dislike that approach but I LOVE it.
LONG MAY IT CONTINUE! <3