elisi | The Killer In Me.

I had a few thoughts... lets see if I can remember them.

1) I was going to write something about how I really don't mind Kennedy. I think her attitude probably has a lot to do with her upbringing - coming from a seriously rich background I've no doubt that she had a pro-active mindset drilled into her from early on. (

stormwreath wrote a lot of good stuff about her in the AOQ thread. ~~He should bring it over to LJ! *pokes gently*)~~ Heh. He beat me to it. Post defending Kennedy here! :)

2) Re. the whole 'is-Giles-The-First', then I don't mind all that much, since it shows very well is how detached Giles is, and how paranoid they're all getting. The First might not be around just at the moment, but that doesn't mean that the fight has gone away. Because its strongest card is to make people doubt themselves and each other.

And I also discovered that there was a bit cut from that scene:

GILES: Well, I... I really don't know what to...
(realization dawns)
Wait, let me understand. You thought I was evil because I took a group of young girls on a camping trip and didn't touch them??

A beat. They take in the irony.

ANDREW: I don't get it.

3) Because it'd been so long since I last watched, I had forgotten a lot of the Willow parts. So this line stood out especially:

WILLOW/WARREN: It's not a trick, it's not a glamour. I'm becoming him. A murderous, misogynist man. I mean, do you understand what he did? What I could do? I killed him for a reason.

"I killed him for a reason." Oh Willow, that was quite an admission - because what she's implying here is that it wasn't just about revenge. She still thinks of Warren as more dangerous than herself, as the greater evil. And from someone who tried to destroy the world? That's quite something. (All of which is dealt with in this vid and accompanying essay, so I'm not going to delve any deeper. But - what a line. One day there might be an essay.)

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(stormwreath wrote a lot of good stuff about her in the AOQ thread. He should bring it over to LJ! *pokes gently*)
Beat you to it. (sticks out tongue)

"I killed him for a reason." Oh Willow, that was quite an admission - because what she's implying here is that it wasn't just about revenge. She still thinks of Warren as more dangerous than herself, as the greater evil.
On the other hand, she is turning into Warren - which means that vindictiveness and self-justification are taking over her personality. Although it's not too strange that Willow's old belief that the normal rules don't apply to her because her motives are good should still linger on, even now she's seen - and been repelled by - where such an attitude can take her.

even now she's seen - and been repelled by - where such an attitude can take her.
Oh definitely. Don't get me wrong, I really like Willow, and her powers in the hands of someone as Warren is truly an awful prospect. The line just really struck me, because of what it says about Willow, and the fact that while she obviously feels very, very bad about what she did, it might have more to do with repulsion over what she's become, rather than pity for her victim.

Like all the other season 7 eps, TKiM wasn't as bad as I remembered. There was good stuff in it, but it was very cluttered and I could've done without the Giles stuff. The comedy didn't really seem to work in this episode for somer reason - as if everyone's timing was off.

I didn't mind Kennedy as much on second viewing either but she still annoys me a lot in Get It Done.

I tend to watch TKiM just for the Spuffy parts and fastforward the rest! *g*

And Kennedy in GiT was surprisingly un-grating. Actually I *loved* Get It Done, but that's a subject for another post...

I am interested in your thoughts about Kennedy... I actually have the same reaction her. If I had a nickel for every kid I encountered in the Ivy league who was every bit as pushy, grating, controlling, and petulant as Kennedy... Well, I'd have a whole lot of nickels. I'm afraid I think like a fic writer instead of a meta-person, so this doesn't necessarily translate onto my page very well. Depending on the character, or the person in my RL, you might get any of an array of reactions, but many will be tinged with annoyance, resentment, and maybe even a little bit of envy. Though, after the really weird way they introduced class issues with Faith in Season 3, I liked seeing the show at least try to work through the flipside.

Wow. What was the purpose of that little ramble? I dunno. I suppose you just articulated my whole read on Kennedy very briefly and I felt compelled to pipe up. :)

I want you to know that your pull quote from Willow is influencing how I think about her, too. She's gonna pop up more in MCwDP, and I think the attitude you noted will echo. Again, something I had a hunch about and now have much more solid grounding in. So thanks! :)

I'm afraid I think like a fic writer instead of a meta-person, so this doesn't necessarily translate onto my page very well.
Things are so much easier to put across in a fic! As for Kennedy, yes she was outspoken a lot, and challenging, but never mean in a Cordelia-esque way. She never put people down just for the fun of it (except the 'maggot' comment, but that was more playing a role, not done out of spite). And yet people love Cordy - ain't that weird? *g*

I want you to know that your pull quote from Willow is influencing how I think about her, too.
Gosh, really? Please read the essay I linked to, it goes into far more detail (and the vid is *excellent*, one of the best I've ever seen). Actually about Willow, then I think she might be more horrified over what she did, than filled with pity for her victim. If that makes sense...

And yet people love Cordy - ain't that weird? *g*

It's probably because people loved Tillow, and were upset that Kennedy replaced Tara. If Willow didn't date her, people won't hate her this much. Then again many poeple hate Rona, and she's kinda like Kennedy.

Then again many poeple hate Rona, and she's kinda like Kennedy.
Is she, though? As far as I can remember, Rona is all about the negative comments and non-constructive sarcasm. Kennedy may be tactless and full of herself, but she's also generous, straightforward and loyal.

As for TKIM's casting, personally I'd much prefer if they'd just had Alyson except for the very occasional flash to Adam Busch just to establish what was happening. But maybe I'm biased. :)

As far as I can remember, Rona is all about the negative comments and non-constructive sarcasm.

It's probably because both of them love to put Buffy in her place while the other potanials are scared to do so. I like both Rona and Kennedy, you just have to picture yourself in their place to get them.

As for TKIM's casting, personally I'd much prefer if they'd just had Alyson except for the very occasional flash to Adam Busch just to establish what was happening. But maybe I'm biased. :)

Nothing like a crying Alyson, she's so amazing when she cries, I can't help myself but cry with her.

Yes, I think it's all about Tara, really. In this ep Willow lets go of her, but the viewers seem unable to do the same...

I didn't know people hated Rona, but then I don't get out much. Actually most the characters on the show are outspoken - I guess Kennedy just isn't as funny as the others!

I remember I didn't really like that the actors shifted in the Willow/Warren bit. I wish they only showed Adam Bush, but I know, Alyson has to be there for the famous Aly crying abilities in that scene with Willow crying.

The Giles bit, I'm happy he didn't die, coz I love Giles but it wasn't handled well sadly, even as a comedy coz it pissed people off more than amused them.

How about when Riley called Spike ass-face? LOL! Strange how Riley sounded funny when he wasn't on screen.

I remember I didn't really like that the actors shifted in the Willow/Warren bit.
I rather liked it, but I know some people didn't. Apparently they filmed all the scenes with both actors and then edited it together later.

but it wasn't handled well sadly,
See I'm just odd because I don't really mind. It's a dumb joke, but the story fits rather well with how the character is portrayed overall.

And Riley's last words... Hmmm... at least he trusted Buffy to choose.

Re Willow’s attitude to Warren, I suspect what we’re supposed to take from that line is that Willow doesn’t feel guilty about killing Warren for the same reasons Xander and Dawn gave in their debate with Buffy back in Villians. She might feel guilty about wanting to end the world, attacking her friends and possibly Jonathan and Andrew but to Willow Warren is just the man who killed Tara and Katrina and enjoyed it. With hindsight that speech is the first real indication that she knows why she’s turning into him and it’s all to do with betraying Tara’s memory by even being able to contemplate moving on. I think Willow may reasonably believe that what she did to Warren was justice in a situation when human law had no ability to ensure it and it’s arguable but not a viewpoint that can be dismissed out of hand. Buffy wins the debate in Villians by bringing in the argument that Willow will destroy herself not by establishing conclusively that Warren can be stopped by the agencies of human justice.

Willow doesn't feel guilty about killing Warren for the same reasons Xander and Dawn gave in their debate with Buffy back in Villians.
Yes, that's what I'm getting out of it as well. He was a creep, but still it wasn't *her* job to be judge, jury and executioner. Which was what Buffy was trying to explain...

Which was what you said, so I'll just shut up and go away now. V. tired...

The Killer In Me.

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