Yeah, you're right about in The Zeppo. But again, the dynamic isn't the same as a relationship, IMO. I can't hold that against her any more than I can hold 'The Lie' against him.
It's not the same as in a realtionship, I agree. I see Buffy and Xander's lies are done for the sake of friendship, both took the choice from the other, Buffy took the choice of fighting from Xander, Xander took the choice of Buffy to stall from her. All for good intentions. But still both took the choices from each other.
I think you might be defeating your own argument in that one. If he's so damned loyal except when he disagrees...that means he agreed with her not to be there, right? There was no subterfuge there. Heck, he called her on it.
I don't really think he wanted to take Dawn away and miss the fight. He only did it out of loyalty and love for Buffy and Dawn. What he really wanted was to fight with his friends. Buffy had lied to Xander to get him to leave, she didn't want him to hurt, so she was all "You're my strength, I only trust you." Of all the core four, she probably trusts Xander the most by the end of S7 (the hand squeeze she gave him in Chosen as they walked together, along with having him fight with Dawn), but I still believe her main reason is to get Xander and Dawn out of harm's way. Maybe also have Xander raise Dawn if Buffy didn't make it. But you're probably right. If he didn't want to go, he'd stay. I think this scene is more of Buffy taking Dawn's choice from her than Xander.
And yet he claims to be more capable of making decisions regarding them than she is. *That's* my principle issue with the relationship.
I agree. With Bangel, Angel saw Buffy as a child, sure, he was in love with her, but she was a child who can't make her own decisions to him.
Both Buffy and Angel acted childish after the break up. Buffy's reason for her attitude was her issues with Faith. Angel's reasons for his attitude was jealousy because Buffy had told him "I have someone in my life now. That I love. It's not what you and I had. It's very new. You know what makes it new? I trust him. I know him."
What bugged me was when Angel said "That was your idea, remember? We stay away from each other." I thought that was Angel's idea. Heh.
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It's not the same as in a realtionship, I agree. I see Buffy and Xander's lies are done for the sake of friendship, both took the choice from the other, Buffy took the choice of fighting from Xander, Xander took the choice of Buffy to stall from her. All for good intentions. But still both took the choices from each other.
I think you might be defeating your own argument in that one. If he's so damned loyal except when he disagrees...that means he agreed with her not to be there, right? There was no subterfuge there. Heck, he called her on it.
I don't really think he wanted to take Dawn away and miss the fight. He only did it out of loyalty and love for Buffy and Dawn. What he really wanted was to fight with his friends. Buffy had lied to Xander to get him to leave, she didn't want him to hurt, so she was all "You're my strength, I only trust you." Of all the core four, she probably trusts Xander the most by the end of S7 (the hand squeeze she gave him in Chosen as they walked together, along with having him fight with Dawn), but I still believe her main reason is to get Xander and Dawn out of harm's way. Maybe also have Xander raise Dawn if Buffy didn't make it. But you're probably right. If he didn't want to go, he'd stay. I think this scene is more of Buffy taking Dawn's choice from her than Xander.
And yet he claims to be more capable of making decisions regarding them than she is. *That's* my principle issue with the relationship.
I agree. With Bangel, Angel saw Buffy as a child, sure, he was in love with her, but she was a child who can't make her own decisions to him.
Both Buffy and Angel acted childish after the break up. Buffy's reason for her attitude was her issues with Faith. Angel's reasons for his attitude was jealousy because Buffy had told him "I have someone in my life now. That I love. It's not what you and I had. It's very new. You know what makes it new? I trust him. I know him."
What bugged me was when Angel said "That was your idea, remember? We stay away from each other." I thought that was Angel's idea. Heh.