elisi | Now if only the internet doesn't suddenly die...

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piiimp!

Now if only the internet doesn't suddenly die...

I like fandom. :) (Just to start with something stupidly obvious...) I know there are idiots out there, but I think most of us are happy and (fairly) sane. Sometimes of course I guess we all worry that it'll all die out, but then it's good to remember that there are people out there discovering Buffy all the time! And some of them are bound to come looking for us and enrich the community. Such as

ibmiller that I mentioned the other day - he's only been around for the shortest while, and already he is writing meta! :)

Prophecies and pre-determinism in the Buffy verse. (Or something like - very clever anyway!*g*)

Redemption, Atonement, and Amends. (Actually a reply to my long soul-essay, but also a very good look at what redemption is.)

The Final Fight. (Thoughts on the final season and 'Chosen' in particular.)

Enjoy! :)

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Whoah! Now I feel all specialfied. I should probably get into some more pimping myself - hmmm, but not when I make it sound all dirty like that. :-)

Hey I love pimping! And I don't think there's a way of making it sound not-dirty... hmmm, maybe I should say 'I very much enjoy recommending articles that might be of interest to my acquaintances'. Slightly better I guess, but it doesn't have the Buffy-reference that yours did!

Such as ibmiller that I mentioned the other day - he's only been around for the shortest while, and already he is writing meta! :)

When I first read this, I was sure the pronouns were a typo, because I'd wager a substantial sum that

ibmiller is female - so do you mind if I ask you directly, ib? (Of course, as the msscribe affair has reminded us, it's impossible to know if people are telling the truth about themselves, so perhaps I should rephrase that as "Would you prefer your on-line persona to be thought of as male or female?").

Yup, I'm male. Hee hee. Not a woman in disguise, and not sly. But I do love Spike. In that completely non-eros love kinda way. I didn't know my unconscious female impersonation was so good. :-) If you like, you can look at my facebook (linked in my profile) - it says I'm male too. Do I get the substantial sum?

At the risk of appearing to be a raving stalker, I went back to look at your posts to see why I was so certain you were female, and came up with the following excerpts which struck me as unusual for a male writer:

"I love, love, love Spuffy"

Thinking about it, I'm not sure I know any other men who are even shippers, let alone Spuffy shippers, let alone Spuffy shippers because they love Spike.

"Moment of weepy silence for the beauty and pain that is "Amends.""

This, I concede, could have been sarcasm :-)

"Those quotes from Andrew make me cry. (I'm just getting all with the waterworks here towards the end, am I not?)"

I rest my case!

And yeah, I know, gender is a spectrum, yadda yadda yadda, but since I've lost a hypothetical thousand quid over this, I shall assert that all this is definitely at the feminine end of the gender performance spectrum ;-)

Thinking about it, I'm not sure I know any other men who are even shippers, let alone Spuffy shippers.
I guess you've never met

mickeygs? He outdoes most women in his shippiness! :)

*facepalm*
That should have been

mikeygs. Why can I never get it right?

Heh, no, I've never come across him, but I'll check him out. I clearly need my horizons broadening ;-)

Well, I love Buffy too. But perhaps it would help my fragile masculenity (not that a man who thinks Jane Austen is God's gift to mankind needs such bolstering) to say that I love Spike as a role model/example rather than for his cuteness.

And why can't I cry at "Amends" as a guy? It's a very painful episode, full of questions about redemption and love and stuff. Perhaps I should go sit in the corner with Xander: "Turning into a woman as I speak." But I think it's a beautiful episode. No sarcasm need apply at the "Amends" door.

As to the "waterworks" quote - I'm just referencing Caleb and trying to establish my Buffy street cred. Oh, yeah. Kicking it righteous. Yeah.

Shutting up now.

Not.

Hey, I like the spectrum idea. I've been pushing it for a while. But I'm still not sly. I just am in touch with my senstive side. A phrase which, like "let's team up" will never be useable again.

I'm sure if I started posting about my theology or my views on feminism people would have no trouble labelling me as a typical intolerant male. Which I try very hard not to be, but my opinions on those two subjects tend to lump me in such catagories. Though I think that's unfair.

So, not a girl. Nor am I in love with Spike. Just a fan.

And thanks, elisi, for the help with other male shippers.

not that a man who thinks Jane Austen is God's gift to mankind needs such bolstering

Anyone who thinks Jane Austen is God's gift to mankind is a welcome addition to the human race, regardless of gender :-)

And why can't I cry at "Amends" as a guy? It's a very painful episode, full of questions about redemption and love and stuff.

I shall take that as a rhetorical question, otherwise I might feel obliged to answer it and then I would have to be rude about Amends (I fall firmly on the Cold Prickly end of the fannish spectrum).

I'm sure if I started posting about my theology or my views on feminism people would have no trouble labelling me as a typical intolerant male.

Heh, I noticed you're "I'm not a feminist disclaimer" in my first read-through, but that just reinforced my assumption that you were female since it's usually women who are eager to announce to the world that they aren't feminists, no sir, nothing threatening about *me*. Whereas funnily enough men are usually keen to present their feminist credentials - I guess both are currying favour with the other side ;-)

Hafta say, shipper or not,

mikeygs's style strikes me as far more conventionally masculine - it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to learn that he's not female (which is my default assumption on lj, men being few and far between - or as far as I can tell; maybe they're all successfully masquerading as womenfolk).

Cold, prickly? In the land of Drusilla, Angelus, Illyria, Lilah, Dark Wesley, Dark Willow, Depressed Buffy, the Trio, etc? How is this possible?

But really, what's wrong with "Amends?" Or is it the whole "Deus ex machina" thing again? I like "deus" and "ex machina" is fine with me, so I suppose that's part of why I never have problems with it (or the end of season seven, for that matter).

Hee, hee. No, as a male, I'm actually ducking and hiding when I say "I'm not a feminist." Since most of the Buffy fandom seems pretty strongly feminist to me, it seems the wisest course of action to just admit the fact then try not to say much about it. But no trying to curry favor about it here.

You're right about mickeyg - he does write more conventionally as masculine. (Side query - does he still post, or are all his things friends only. His last entry seems to be six months ago). But anyway, part of my tone is that I've read more academic criticism than fan essays, part of it is that I tend to be more into the shippiness than all that horror or action stuff (Austen fan, remember?), and part of it is that most of the essays I read are by female writers, so I tend to imitate them (again, the whole new fan thing).

Do I have to beat my chest? Or something?

Cold, prickly? In the land of Drusilla, Angelus, Illyria, Lilah, Dark Wesley, Dark Willow, Depressed Buffy, the Trio, etc? How is this possible?

I like watching 'em suffer instead of wishing for them to be happy.

But really, what's wrong with "Amends?"

I've only watched it once because I thought it was ridiculously overwrought and painfully badly acted by at least one of the principals. I much prefer Angel when he doesn't have to be the romantic hero (or as someone on TWOP memorably put it "fat, ugly and behind a desk"). The fake snow struck me as a fitting metaphor for the whole episode - one of it rang true for me, though I concede that SMG is good at the waterworks (still, as a Cold Prickly I prefer to watch someone struggling personfully to suppress there tears than freely indulging in them).

Do I have to beat my chest? Or something?

That's it! The lack of chest-beating is a dead giveway that you're not a Real Man!

Er, that should, of course, read "None of it rang true for me".

Hey - I live by the dictum - "Buffy in pain, show better. Buffy not in pain, show worse." But really, I think the message of Buffy and Angel (one of them at least) is that while happiness on this earth is never perfect nor for very long, it is real and should be striven for. You know, we fight for the way the world should be, to make it better.

Um, badly acted by one of the principles - er, coughAngelcough? I thought he did a good job. Taste, I think. Though he is one of the weaker actors to begin with - giving him all due props for amazing improvement. I thought by season three he had really come to a good place, acting-wise, and I love the acting in this ep. Sarah Michelle Geller's hair, on the other hand, not so much. No bangs, Buffy, no bangs.

As to repressing tears, I thought Buffy did too much of that in the later seasons, so it was good to see where she was starting from here. Plus, I was crying too, so I suppose its self justification.

Sorry to elisi for hogging the thread. Promise I'll be nicer, especially to someone who is so friendly and good at pimping.

Sorry to elisi for hogging the thread. Promise I'll be nicer, especially to someone who is so friendly and good at pimping.
Oh please don't apologise! It's been great fun following your conversation!

And I just *had* to use this icon... *g*

Apologies also for thread-hogging. And agree that good acting is very much in the eye of the beholder.

As I said: I love it when people hog my LJ. Oh and I asked Stephen Tempest if he used to post on the terry prachett NG and he said indeed he did. What name did you go by then?

Aha! I thought I recognised that sense of humour! In those days I went by the imaginative name of Victoria :-)

Side query - does he still post, or are all his things friends only. His last entry seems to be six months ago
Oh he's still around, he just mostly lurks. But when he de-lurks he usually has interesting things to say!

The link to "Redemption, Atonement, and Amends" doesn't work.

Thank you! All fixed now. (That's what I get for being in a rush!)

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