I'm very interested in your point about the perspective that the Doctor gains by those 200 years alone. With Ten that would have been a recipe for disaster. He was completely unable to cope with the self-examination that demanded of him, hence all the desperate running around looking for diversions like marrying Liz 1. Oooh yes. But Ten's running was all about distracting himself from his pain, and denying what he knew to be true. OK, they're both running from death, but Eleven has a very realistic view of himself, and it works beautifully as a prolonged period of penance.
Sorry, I'm not putting that awfully well but, for example, while people reasonably criticised the narrative problem of Reinette showing up and the Doctor running after her in context of his feelings about Rose at that point, GITF still functioned perfectly as an exploration of the Doctor's existential loneliness in a world where almost all relationships were transient for him. *laughs* Oh I get you, and yes, I see what you mean. That particular situation is still something that amuses me VERY MUCH, because I can remember how, after it aired, my flist was full of distraught Doctor/Rose fans fuming about the French H0r, whereas I (still firmly in the asexual camp at the time) was dancing with glee because the Doctor got laid! But then I always go for the meta, and the Doctor is always my point of reference... Oh dear, I really am a Moffat girl through and through.
My contention has always been that RTD's focus was on the Doctor's attempt to pass as human, which was pathological, part of his PTD after the Time War. It was natural that he should seek a human mate but I think there's a moment in Doomsday where he's forced to acknowledge that's delusional, and can never really solve his problems - it's when Rose tells her Mum, "He does it all on his own, but now he's got me," and Ten knows, even as his heart is breaking, that it isn't enough. *nods a lot* I think it was necessary, actually. No one could go through something like the Time War and come out unchanged. So I am deeply appreciative of RTD following through on the consequences of what he had the Doctor do. As well as being appreciative of Moffat for then picking up the pieces.
In RTD's Who we see the terrible consequences of humans trying to step up to the plate and meet the Doctor's needs. Oh that's an interesting way of looking at it. Yes, I think you might be onto something there. Esp re. CoE. (I guess MD could be seen as the terrible consequences of humans trying to control the world like Timelords? That almost makes me OK with it.)
No, it has to be another Time Lord/Lady that saves the Doctor, and this is her story. Yesssss.
The Tenth Doctor had to die, and along with him the whole myth that he could solve his problems by becoming human (I sometimes wonder if there's a bit of a gay metaphor going on, there, since you could see his whole narrative arc as an example of passing as straight to the point of trying to make a go of it with a hetero partner, but in the end it's leading nowhere, you can only be who you are - and that means regenerating, no matter how hard you fight it). Oh, that's VERY good. Yes I can see that.
Ten ended with a requiem - that version of the Doctor really had to die, and not just because DT was leaving. M-hm. *ponders* Ten had to die (/regenerate) because he was trying to be something he couldn't. And Eleven had to appear to die in order to erase his legacy. Oh I do love deaths/sea changes.
Finally, just a point about promethia tenk's comments - the Trickster and the greenwood - I would say this, but that is so precisely a description of Shakespearian comedy that it takes my breath away. I see she's already got to this bit! :)
And please don't apologise! Remember, I wrote the darn thing! *g*
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Thank you! *curtsies*
I'm very interested in your point about the perspective that the Doctor gains by those 200 years alone. With Ten that would have been a recipe for disaster. He was completely unable to cope with the self-examination that demanded of him, hence all the desperate running around looking for diversions like marrying Liz 1.
Oooh yes. But Ten's running was all about distracting himself from his pain, and denying what he knew to be true. OK, they're both running from death, but Eleven has a very realistic view of himself, and it works beautifully as a prolonged period of penance.
Sorry, I'm not putting that awfully well but, for example, while people reasonably criticised the narrative problem of Reinette showing up and the Doctor running after her in context of his feelings about Rose at that point, GITF still functioned perfectly as an exploration of the Doctor's existential loneliness in a world where almost all relationships were transient for him.
*laughs* Oh I get you, and yes, I see what you mean. That particular situation is still something that amuses me VERY MUCH, because I can remember how, after it aired, my flist was full of distraught Doctor/Rose fans fuming about the French H0r, whereas I (still firmly in the asexual camp at the time) was dancing with glee because the Doctor got laid! But then I always go for the meta, and the Doctor is always my point of reference... Oh dear, I really am a Moffat girl through and through.
My contention has always been that RTD's focus was on the Doctor's attempt to pass as human, which was pathological, part of his PTD after the Time War. It was natural that he should seek a human mate but I think there's a moment in Doomsday where he's forced to acknowledge that's delusional, and can never really solve his problems - it's when Rose tells her Mum, "He does it all on his own, but now he's got me," and Ten knows, even as his heart is breaking, that it isn't enough.
*nods a lot* I think it was necessary, actually. No one could go through something like the Time War and come out unchanged. So I am deeply appreciative of RTD following through on the consequences of what he had the Doctor do. As well as being appreciative of Moffat for then picking up the pieces.
In RTD's Who we see the terrible consequences of humans trying to step up to the plate and meet the Doctor's needs.
Oh that's an interesting way of looking at it. Yes, I think you might be onto something there. Esp re. CoE. (I guess MD could be seen as the terrible consequences of humans trying to control the world like Timelords? That almost makes me OK with it.)
No, it has to be another Time Lord/Lady that saves the Doctor, and this is her story.
Yesssss.
The Tenth Doctor had to die, and along with him the whole myth that he could solve his problems by becoming human (I sometimes wonder if there's a bit of a gay metaphor going on, there, since you could see his whole narrative arc as an example of passing as straight to the point of trying to make a go of it with a hetero partner, but in the end it's leading nowhere, you can only be who you are - and that means regenerating, no matter how hard you fight it).
Oh, that's VERY good. Yes I can see that.
Ten ended with a requiem - that version of the Doctor really had to die, and not just because DT was leaving.
M-hm. *ponders* Ten had to die (/regenerate) because he was trying to be something he couldn't. And Eleven had to appear to die in order to erase his legacy. Oh I do love deaths/sea changes.
Finally, just a point about promethia tenk's comments - the Trickster and the greenwood - I would say this, but that is so precisely a description of Shakespearian comedy that it takes my breath away.
I see she's already got to this bit! :)
And please don't apologise! Remember, I wrote the darn thing! *g*