elisi: (We are all stories by immobulus_icons)
elisi ([personal profile] elisi) wrote2011-08-17 07:47 pm
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A few thoughts on Moffat’s writing.

A note before we start: This is, essentially, meta on Moffat’s writing - trying to study how and why it does what it does. It has nothing to do with RTD, so no comments comparing the two, please. And for anyone wanting to talk about representation or sexism or similar, please see this awesome post by [livejournal.com profile] such_heights, which echoes my thoughts precisely.


A few thoughts on Moffat’s writing.

Timey-wimey.
The Doctor: People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.
‘Blink’
~
The Doctor: Because that's how I see the universe. Every waking second, I can see what is, what was... what could be, what must not. That's the burden of the Time Lord, Donna.
‘Fires of Pompeii’
~
Amy: Time can be re-written
River: Not all of it.
‘The Impossible Astronaut’


Now, my thought is that Moffat is constructing the show so as to teach the audience to think like Timelords. Look at S5 and 6 so far, and they really are ‘a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff’. Cause and effect are... *waves hands* nigh on impossible to trace. (Just see this diagram outlining The Big Bang - for the whole series it would be... painfully complex.) But the thing is, we get lines thrown at us like ‘The TARDIS can archive things that have not happened yet’, and we understand what that means. (‘The only water in the forest is the river...’) The other side to this is that everything is connected. This is rather delightful, except for the fact that it makes writing meta rather complicated...

Which brings me to:

Moffat tells his stories backwards.
I’ve already touched on the timey-wimey-ness, but this particular feature adds another dimension to the show. I ‘grew up’, fandom wise, with Joss Whedon, and I very quickly learned that if people were happy this meant that horrible things would soon befall them and everyone’s heart would get trampled. And, generally speaking, this is how stories work. We watch to find out 'what happens next', as the stories progress in a linear fashion, although we sometimes get curveballs thrown in. (The Doctor meets Rose, the Doctor and Rose have adventures, the Doctor loses Rose FOREVER. Oh no wait! There she is again. How? Why? Will they be happy *this time*?... Experience says: No.)

Moffat, in his role at the helm of Doctor Who, has done the opposite. He began his story with a tragic death, except we didn’t quite understand it at the time, and we were more puzzled than sad. (Well a lot of people were just annoyed.) But with every reveal of who River is, and what she means to the Doctor, that final separation gains new layers and becomes more painful. All Moffat has to do is write the story, and the tragedy takes care of itself...

Also, moving further out and looking at the whole show from a distance, many moments gain new significance as we go on. We watch a story unfold, but with every reveal, every new understanding, the past gains more weight, more layers. For example, the interactions between River and Amy and Rory. Or - the story of the Pandorica. In the light of AGMGTW the Alliance no longer seems so strange, their actions not so surprising. Because who is the Doctor, really?

What I mean is - re-watch S5 or what we have of S6 so far in the light of AGMGTW, and we are in many respects watching a different story. Like... Oh, looking at a picture through coloured film or similar? Do you know what I mean? You look at something through a red lens and you can only see parts of the picture and it looks complete, but then you look through the blue lens and you see lots of other things - Moffat is slowly adding colours, and when he's done we'll see the whole picture!

Another aspect to getting our story in the wrong order is... We get it in the wrong order. S6 being the prime example of course. We start of with the Doctor's death, and the whole season is about finding out WHY he dies. Filling in all the blanks. It tilts everything, but I rather like it.

Amy's skirt
OK, I'm going to stick my hand in a hornets' nest with this one, but please try to understand that I am merely attempting to understand what he was doing, not whether it was a good thing...

I never wrote about the Comic Relief Special at the time (I was too cross with fandom), but I just rewatched it and yeah, I remember. It's all about the circles. I'll go into how it all fits into the show in another post, for now I just want to walk about the skirt.

I can understand why some people found the whole concept offensive, but I think they're overlooking the meta. Why did Moffat write a whole mini episode about Amy's skirt? Answer: Because it's something that people have talked about incessantly ever since the first filming pictures appeared. Are her skirts too short? Is she too sexy? If she wears short skirts, clearly she is a slut and/or a stripper (this one's still around - no really. She was called a strip-o-gram in The Daily Mail two weeks ago, I kid you not).

Basically, a LOT of people have ~issues~ with how Amy dresses. (A lot of those people are in fandom.) And Moffat is sexist for making her wear them.

So, what Moffat did was tackle these things head on: Amy's too sexy. She shouldn't wear those skirts. She's a distraction to all around her - certainly to that driving instructor. Not to mention to her husband (nevermind that she's a happily married woman, and Rory is entitled to find her attractive)!

(Plus there's the glass floor. Endless fun to be had with that if you have a dirty mind. And fandom does, and Moffat knows it does.)

Result: Amy, put some trousers on!

'But oh we can't have that!' shouts fandom. 'That's sexist too! How dare you!'

So here's the catch-22: You can't have it both ways. Plz make up your mind. Moffat has kindly provided you with both sides of the argument. Either Amy's an inappropriately dressed slut and she should cover up, or she's not. Take your pick.

(This was an example of the show causing RL ripples which rippled right back into the show. Circles, see? Should Moffat poke fandom with a pointy stick? Probably not. But I can understand why he does it, even if his methods might be too tongue in cheek for his own good. Personally, I don't care.) Moving on...

How to re-tell old stores anew
I know that there are probably a lot of people complaining that the whole show is centred around River now, and you know what? They’d be absolutely right. The whole show *is* about River now. And I think this makes Moffat pretty much a genius.

Let me explain: Doctor Who, as everyone knows, is a very, very old show. We know... pretty much everything there is to know about the Doctor, as we’ve watched him for nearly fifty years. And this is a problem, because how can you tell new stories when you’ve already told every story there is twice or thrice or ten times over? (See The 45 deaths of Doctor Who. Notice all the 'X leaves, breaking the irreplaceable magic between companion and Doctor...')

What RTD did was invent the Time War, destroying the Time Lords, and then deal with the fallout from that. This was a very good way of generating a story, and breaking the Doctor was certainly new. He gets big props for that (and for bringing the show back, full stop. *squishes RTD gratefully*). The only drawback is that once you’ve taken someone apart all you can do is put them together again.

So what Moffat has done is introduce River. River is an enigma. River has layers upon layers upon layers of secrets. River can help spin storylines for as long as Moffat wants - she is, quite simply, a goldmine, storywise. And the brilliant thing is of course that she’s deeply tied into the Doctor’s life, so her story is his too.

Which is why it's so important that River isn't a companion. Don't get me wrong, companions are important and wonderful, but they have a clearly defined role, and generate particular kind of stories.(Just look at School Reunion and the mirroring of Rose and Sarah Jane.) River's story is vastly, vastly different, and so is River herself. She always knows more than the Doctor, one way or another, and she is his equal, and so her arc is a completely different shape.

It’s essentially just a difference in focus, because she, like the Doctor, is a Trickster character. But since she part of the story told, it makes her stand inside it, as a character, and outside, as someone propelling it forward - essentially telling her own story...

And how clever is that?

Finally [livejournal.com profile] owlsie complied a giant post of Moffat Quotes which is totally awesome!

[identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 06:55 pm (UTC)(link)
This is pretty much why I am in love with Moffat's Who. It's a whole new world, in every single way.

I am not touching the Amy thing with a ten foot Time Lord penis. Fandom's misogyny can fuck itself, thanks.

[identity profile] betawho.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I think Moffat is an excellent writer, and I enjoy loads of his ideas, and characters. River is one of my absolute favorite things in New Who.

For me, other than a few things related to trying to fit both and arc and standalone stories in the schedule, without it looking odd, most of the things that bug me about his writing is simply a difference in what types of behavior I find attractive or not in a character.

Both Amy and River are outrageous flirts, wear provokative clothing, and are very sexually liberated.

And I absolutely adore it in River, and get really irritated at it in Amy. And I think part of that is because of the slightly different attitudes of the characters, and the way they are written.

River is written as mature, self-confident, and having a care for the people around her. In a way, River's sexuality is written in a very positive way. It's free and supportive and welcoming.

Amy's sexuality seems to be written in a more negative way. She seems more likely to try to use it as a way of manipulating the men around her. She's unfaithful. And sort of uses her looks as a weapon in some ways, knowing that guys react to it. It's that attitude that bothers me. That particular attitude in the writing I don't think helps the appreciation of the character. It's good character work, she very much has a distinct character, but in some ways it's not a very admirable one, which is sort of odd for a Companion.

Series 6 has toned down that aspect of her character, but the writing itself outside the character still keeps drawing attention to it, apparently for laughs, such as the way we're supposed to believe Amy is telling baby Melody that the Doctor is her father, then discover it is Rory. It's a nice bit of misdirection, and well written, but it does bring back up that question of whether or not Amy is faithful to her husband. Which, to me, and especially in a show where faithful friends are one of the basises of the whole thing, is a bit uncomfortable.

River, for all we know she's a murderess and possibly killed the Doctor himself, is still written as a more faithful character. At least so far.

As for things being written backward. Lots of fiction does this very successfully, and it's a natural fit for a time travel show. But while the backward part, such as learning about River backward, doesn't bother me, the "effects before causes" and "I'll tell you later" aspect, while intrigueing at first, has, to me, been drawn out a little too long.

I greatly believe in suspense in writing, and leaving your audience hanging and panting for more. But when the gratification is deferred so long, with little indication that answers are coming, while new questions are being piled on all the time, after a while it becomes irritating. At least it has to me.

For me personally, I think I'd be just as interested in the story, and future episodes, if we'd gotten a few of the threads tied off by now. To have some things resolved before introducing more. That way I'd feel like something was being accomplished rather than like I was being led by the nose.

Deferred gratification is great, but after a certain point it starts to become irritating. That's why most things work in a cycle of ebb and flow. Not just a constant building of pressure until something bursts. Either an explosive finale, or the viewer's patience.

[identity profile] erykah101.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Have you seen Press Gang? You're totally on to something with him telling stories backwards! The classic example from that show is a two-parter called The Last Word.

We start with a death. A man with a gun has invaded the newsroom and killed one of the staff before making a clean get away. The rest of the episode is then showing what happened when he arrived. Lynda Day (the editor) is trying to talking him down and promising that she can get him out of there as if he never was as long as he kills none of her staff. Tension ensues, some staff get let out. We cut at various points to talking heads to camera from various staff members, gradually showing us who isn't the dead person. Ep 1 obviously ends with a gunshot, even more obviously, it doesn't hit anyone. Part two starts at a funeral, showing the people who we know are alive but none of the ones who were left trapped in there. Back to the newsroom and lots of lovely character moments, intercut with more of the funeral. Finally we're down to Lynda and Spike (her sort of boyfriend). A pair who both want The Last Word in their relationship. They're lined up and the gunman raises his gun. Bang. I wont spoil the twist if you've not seen it. *wink* But it's a beautiful piece of storytelling and sheds a lot of light on Moffat's writing style.


Edited 2011-08-17 20:00 (UTC)

[identity profile] betawho.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Perhaps what I mean about the difference between Amy and River, is that River is written as reliable, Amy, for some reason, doesn't feel reliable to me. I'm not sure I'd want her at my back in a crisis (at least as she's been written so far.)

Which seems odd to me in a Companion. And I don't actually dislike Amy, I just think some things have gone wrong somewhere in parts of the writing.

I do love Moff's amazing ideas. From Vashta Nerada to the Weeping Angels, to the Silence, have all been based on really interesting and unusual ideas that have stretched the Doctor Who worldview.

[identity profile] sensiblecat.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
People (including me at various times) complain that there's an emotional flatness to Moffat's writing. But one thing that occurs to me is that, given what you've said above, expecting the Doctor to show empathy in any way that we understand it is a bit of a stretch. If your reaction to any emotional situation is qualified by having to establish where you are up to in their timeline, it must be quite hard to respond appropriately.

In a way, for the Doctor to, say, feel sorry for Amy because her baby is missing, is rather like asking a human to empathise with a character in a book. It is, to some extent, a hypothetical situation from the Doctor's POV, even if he can appreciate how real it is to the person suffering at the time. This adds a whole new layer to the concept of the Doctor's loneliness as the last of his people. It also puts the references to telling stories in context: we are, indeed, all stories in the end and cannot be fully known until our story is complete.

However, "completion" can come in more than one way. In linear time, you have to experience events without knowing their eventual outcome. The story is revealed as you go along. But a time traveller might well know the end of the story before the beginning, and as you have pointed out so eloquently, a sense of completion may be felt at the moment when a vital piece in the jigsaw falls into place, and events already experienced make sense and are experienced fully for the first time.

The moment at the end of AGMGTW, where the Doctor shows joy in the middle of everything going wrong around him, is one such beat, and Matt plays it quite beautifully. He has the ability to act on more than one level at a time, not just child/old man but also to simulaneously react to a moment revealed in linear time and its deeper layers and meanings in non-linear chronology.

[identity profile] betawho.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
If that's Moff's attitude, that just because someone was from the 51st Century and sexually liberated they would not be faithful to a spouse, then I hope it really never gets into the show.

It's that sort of attitude actually, as used in the writing around Amy, that makes Amy a less attractive character to me. Even if, strictly speaking, we are told she is faithful, they keep hinting that it would be okay, or just funny if she wasn't.

And it's not about Amy being a woman. If Rory had been the one trying to be unfaithful, I wouldn't like it about him either. And so far, River has given no indications of preferring anyone over the Doctor.

[identity profile] betawho.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 09:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Out of interest, what did you think of Rory and Jennifer in the Ganger episodes?

That didn't strike me as him being unfaithful to Amy, it just struck me as him trying to do what he thought was right. It showed the protector in him, that is so often forgotten. He did protect Amy for 2000 years.

But I didn't find anything unfaithful about it. Spouses can disagree without it having anything to do with them cheating on each other. And, considering Amy herself was Flesh at the time, it was sort of ironic.

[identity profile] penny-lane-42.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 09:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I like you! As always!

I do have quite a few problems with Moffat, both as a person and as a writer, but he also makes me incredibly happy in other ways. I really feel like your journal is my happy-place as far as DW goes, because you like to focus on the many ways he's excellent.

Also...I really, really like what you have to say about Amy's skirt. Because it never connected with me that he was speaking directly to fandom, but of course he was. I'm not at all a fan of writers speaking directly to their viewers in that way (one of the reasons I gave up on Supernatural was that Kripke was doing that way, way, way too often and it drove me crazy), but it makes sense in this case. Plus, I've heard that Karen was the one who wanted to go with the short skirts, which also makes me more okay with the Moff. So.

Anyway! Love your thoughts as always, and thanks so much to linking to that other post.
promethia_tenk: (storytellers)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-08-17 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)
If that's Moff's attitude, that just because someone was from the 51st Century and sexually liberated they would not be faithful to a spouse, then I hope it really never gets into the show.
I think just about everything Moff says in that commentary has to be seen in light of this line:

Moffat: Why would she be faithful to her husband if she doesn’t have one?

This is way, way early and there's practically *nothing* about River that he can reveal so far at this point. In the meantime everybody else in the room is piling on trying to winkle secrets out of him and they're all a bit loopy and teasing each other and riffing on each other's jokes and Moffat, being Moffat, is gonna take every opportunity to tease and obfuscate and throw out provocative suggestions just to stir everybody up. Every time somebody even tries to call River the Doctor's wife he makes a point of denying or hedging or mocking the suggestion. I'd take every bit of it with a heavy grain of salt.

[identity profile] shadowkat67.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 10:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Completely agree. You've managed to aptly sum up why I love Moffat's writing and adore the River Song story (enough to actually purchase the S6 DVD. Now I just need to get my hands on S5.)

The whole thing about Amy's skirt - just made me laugh. That's hilarious. People are actually worrying over the length of Amy's skirts? Methinks fandom is slightly batty, and possibly a bit on the prudish side of the fence? I mean seriously - I wore short skirts in my late 20s and early 30s.
promethia_tenk: (lynda bitch editor)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-08-17 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay! Everyone needs to convince elisi to watch Press Gang.

When I watched that episode, all I could think about was the "good man" River killed. It would in no way surprise me if Moff were setting up a similar sort of resolution to that mystery.
owlboy: (Default)

[personal profile] owlboy 2011-08-17 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
On Amy's skirt - yep, that was my first thought when I saw the episode. He was taking the piss out of people who made a big deal out of it. He takes the piss out of EVERYTHING. And all the accussations about slut-shaming and whatnot are just daft if you read that compilation of quotes [bwee! Thanks for linking me!] the dude is ridiculously sex positive. Having a character say "Amy, put some trousers on!" [note that she laughs it off and continues to wear short skirts, because she's Amy and she doesn't give a flying toss what the Doctor says] does not automatically mean the WRITER is sexist! But oh god, I'm rambling because this is an obvious sore spot for me...

Every time I hear "Moffat" and "sexism" in the same sentence now I just skip on by now. I really don't care to hear it. I mean, if someone could blow my mind with something I've never considered before, I'm all for it. But generally it's the same old tired, tired bullshit.
I've never loved any female characters quite like I've loved Moffat's. Haters to the left. <3

[identity profile] masakochan.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh god, Amy's Skirt. I still remember someone telling me that the only thing I needed to see- to see that Moffat was sexist was the Red Nose Day skit. They never got back with me after I pointed out all the reasons on why I loved it, and didn't have any problems. (One of those reasons being like you said that Moffat is just poking at the fandom).

You know, even still being in the Harry Potter fandom for so long- I'm amazed at how fast it's taken for sections of the DW fandom to irritate the living hell out of me. And I've only been into this show since about a month and a half before the 2010 Christmas Special aired. Ahhhh, fandom.

[identity profile] masakochan.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Every time I hear "Moffat" and "sexism" in the same sentence now I just skip on by now

If I had $1 for every time I see someone bring up the two quotes of woman and neediness (which after having watched only 10 minutes of an episode of Coupling- I can completely see one of the characters saying something like that.)
owlboy: (Default)

[personal profile] owlboy 2011-08-17 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I felt so vindicated when someone finally asked him about that on Tumblr Twitter and he poured cold water on it. Misogynists DON'T SAY "the way boys are treated better than girls makes me totally angry" and "my wife is the boss of me"!

Every time someone brings up those comments on Tumblr I just direct them to his twitter, and the response is usually "Oh, okay" or silence :P

// edited for social media fail
Edited 2011-08-17 23:23 (UTC)

[identity profile] masakochan.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I just direct them to his twitter, and the response is usually "Oh, okay" or silence

I wish. I posted a screenshot of his response in response to someone bringing up the article with the quote, and most people who responded said that he was lying. Or then bring up his comment where his first thought on seeing Karen was that she was 'wee and dumpy'.

[identity profile] ladymercury-10.livejournal.com 2011-08-17 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay, more meta! I don't really have anything to add to this, but it was lovely to read. :)
owlboy: (PG- bitch editor from hell)

[personal profile] owlboy 2011-08-18 12:08 am (UTC)(link)
SQUEE PRESS GANG FANS!!11

That is one of my FAVOURITE episodes. Monday/Tuesday is structured out of order as well, and it's a great one.

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