Thoughts.

[elisi]

Listened to Obama's Arizona speech today. The New Yorker has a very good article here (many thanks to frenchani for the link!), which just about sums it all up. Extraordinary through and through. (Even if David Cameron could write a speech like that, it'd not be as affecting, because well, he's David Cameron.)

And it reminded me of a thought I had the other night, when Darcy and I were watching 'The Thick of It', and I began comparing it to 'The West Wing'...

The latter is about idealism and aspiration, and Americans truly have that. And it is not a foolish notion either - just look at Obama. The hope and inspiration that Americans have - and that he to a great extent commands - is deeply touching.

'The Thick of It' however is steeped in cynicism. In England people view politicians mostly as an inevitable part of life, a necessary evil - but Churchill apart no one gets put on a pedestal. (And just look at Nick Clegg as an example of what happens when people do... The reason he's so reviled now, is because for moment it was believed that he was different.) It's no accident that on Doctor Who the Master turned himself into a Hugely Popular Politician - we are very aware that if we had a figure like that it'd probably mean that the guy was an Evil Mastermind out to destroy the world.

The flipside to this is of course Sarah Palin, where we don't have any kind of equivalent. (We don't have the highs, but then we also avoid the lows...) OK, we have plenty of idiots, but it's not quite the same. ;)

Not really going anywhere with this, just thinking out loud.

Comments

[paratti.livejournal.com]

There's we're an older country factor but I suspect that that the Head of State isn't the Head of the Government may also play into things. People can and sometimes do put the unrealistic romance onto the ones with the shiny crowns and carriages rather than the guy in the suit making the real calls.
Where that isn't the case the romance of embodiement of the country and wishful thinking passes on to the guy in the suit.

[elisi]

*nods a lot*

It's a lot of different factors, but I find myself wondering how things might be different if Cameron wasn't Prime Minister, but President. And then I shudder and wish the Queen a long life. (And am now also wishing I had an icon of Liz 10... *g*)

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

The Thick Of It is almost too painful to watch for me. I just want my protagonists to be more decent and competent than that. How would you place Yes Minister - which I love - between TTOI and West Wing?

[empresspatti.livejournal.com]

The latter is about idealism and aspiration, and Americans truly have that. And it is not a foolish notion either - just look at Obama. The hope and inspiration that Americans have - and that he to a great extent commands - is deeply touching.
++

I couldn't agree more. What a very, very, very kind thing to say - esp given the heartbreak of this last week. Thank you.

[elisi]

The Thick Of It is almost too painful to watch for me. I just want my protagonists to be more decent and competent than that.
Oh I hear you. I can't really watch it either - I tend to read a book or magazine or be on the laptop and just catch snippets...

How would you place Yes Minister - which I love - between TTOI and West Wing?
Somewhere in the middle? You have a good man, who means well, but he's not really in charge the way Bartlett is.

[spikes-wish.livejournal.com]

"The flipside to this is of course Sarah Palin, where we don't have any kind of equivalent."

Boris. Johnson.

That is all.

[elisi]

Boris Johnson has a brain. It might be covered in cobwebs, but it's there.

[elisi]

Well the speech made me cry, so it's well deserved praise.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Well, *I* love The Thick Of It with every fiber of my cynical being. So there. :-P

Always afraid this icon will come across as anti-Obama, which is really not the point.

[elisi]

Oh it's a BRILLIANT show. Brilliant. I find it hard to watch for almost the same reasons I can't watch Alan Partridge...

(Your icon is hysterical btw. Really sums up my whole post!)

[promethia_tenk]

I think an important part of it is that idealism is the closest thing we have to a national identity. We don't have a shared ethnic heritage to tie us together. We've got precious little shared history. What we do have (what we turned to, really, when we went looking for an American soul) is the Declaration of Independence, probably one of the most willfully idealistic documents ever written. The idea of this country was born out of the Enlightenment, in a lot of ways, and that essay basically says we have the right and obligation and capacity to solve our problems through rational means, so that's what we're going to do.

Which is not to say that that's how the American Revolution really went down. It is our collective national lie myth. But it's a very animating one, and it's what we have.

[promethia_tenk]

HTML fail. Meant to strikethrough "lie."

[elisi]

Hmmm. Very good point. Also, it's nice that it works. :)

[elisi]

I know the feeling...

(Look, I nicked your icon!)

[promethia_tenk]

:) We as a country exist, metaphorically speaking, because Thomas Jefferson told us a story about who we are.

And collectively, we believe it. We really do.

[promethia_tenk]

And here I was, wanting a hug icon nobody else had . . . ;-)

I tease because I'm flattered. Enjoy!

[elisi]

Well if we share a brain, then surely we are the same person...

;)

[elisi]

I rather love that. ♥

[yourlibrarian]

We don't have the highs, but then we also avoid the lows...) OK, we have plenty of idiots, but it's not quite the same.

Just out of curiosity, it's not the same because they're not taken seriously?

[elisi]

Mostly, yes. I mean, there are some who take them seriously, but they're well aware that they are figures of ridicule for the rest of the country. Also, we don't have quite the same levels of celebrity worship. (It's late, so I'm just using generalisations...)

[yourlibrarian]

I suspect you also benefit from not having FOX news ...

[elisi]

::snerk::

(You've seen this, right?)

[vampirefever.livejournal.com]

I worked in Parliament for 7 years and can say with conviction, the cynicism is wholly justified. I had been a party activist and my degree was politics, but the reality was sobering.

My own post just after Obama won the presidency was, as far as my flist goes, the only cynical post I saw of the whole Democratic win. I could see all that starry-eyed idealism was going to crash and burn. And except for the few uplifting speaches Obama has made recently, the way the American voters turned on him at the recent elections shows idealism is fine but wont give you miracles.

The West Wing is one of my favourite ever programmes but it's because it's Utopian that I love it. Reality is by far so much dirtier and corrupt.

[elisi]

I worked in Parliament for 7 years and can say with conviction, the cynicism is wholly justified. I had been a party activist and my degree was politics, but the reality was sobering.
I remember you talking about it... (It's interesting how the pattern is repeated throughout the world though. In the Faroes you have a population of 50,000, and yet the politicians are the same as anywhere else.)

And except for the few uplifting speaches Obama has made recently, the way the American voters turned on him at the recent elections shows idealism is fine but wont give you miracles.
You know, I think Obama himself was always perfectly aware of this. From what I've read (his books are excellent) he is perfectly aware of how fickle people are, and quite simply just wants to do the job, with no interest in 'point scoring' or winning the next news cycle.

The West Wing is one of my favourite ever programmes but it's because it's Utopian that I love it. Reality is by far so much dirtier and corrupt.
Indeed...

[yourlibrarian]

LOL -- that was one heck of a hyphen describing FOX :D

[elisi]

Charlie Brooker is snark/sarcasm/vitriol personified!