You know, sometimes I wish I'd never written that essay. ; ) Because the point I was trying to make there - and it's obviously my own ineptitude to blame if it didn't come across - in saying things like "Spike took S5" and "Spike is the hero" was that this is how it looks to Angel. Because obviously Angel is THE hero of that story; it's his story, his name is on it, but by S5 he'd graduated into such a state of reasoned, complicated, brooding elder statesmanship, like a medieval king, that Spike, by contrast, ends up looking more like a recognizable "hero." In other words, the sort of person Angel used to be, back when he had fewer ideas about the real complexity of the mission. Spike's presence points out the extent of Angel's current gray state, shows how carefully he weighs things now. Kinda like those high school dramas in which the good, studious, hard-working honor-roll kid suddenly gets his thunder stolen by a new transfer who breaks all the rules and doesn't study but still ends up getting into the good school and being just as popular. Kind of like that. (But thanks for the pointer. : ) I'll brace myself for another small round of "I don't agree!")
But anyway... back to soulless redemption.
I have to say I do agree with Barb's argument; soulless redemption is a different story from the one that was told. But it's hard to argue against the relative greatness of a story you've actually seen versus a hypothetical one - you can only say what disappointed you in what you have seen, what it might've led you to expect that you might've felt cheated by. But if you were fully satisified by the canon story, as seems to be your point here, well.... I guess it's one of those road-not-taken questions. (Come to think of it, though, I read fanfic to explore those kinds of questions, so... why not think about it?)
But I do see your point about Angel's and Spike's reactions to the soul being different, and the value of that, although there was never enough of that in the show, for my taste. Was there really a difference between asking for a soul versus being saddled with one? And if not, why not, and who's judging all this? But that's the thing about the Jossverse works - there are holes left open for interpretation, especially around areas of philosophy, like religion, and no definitive answers, so people end up bringing their own background and experiences to bear to fill in those holes. And not everyone ends up with the same type of type of sweater when they get to knitting in those spaces.
I'm babbling; essentially, it's just: me like Spike, me like Angel, there are all sorts of interesting questions to ask and/or ponder about both, yay. And kudos to you, amazing essay.
no subject
But anyway... back to soulless redemption.
I have to say I do agree with Barb's argument; soulless redemption is a different story from the one that was told. But it's hard to argue against the relative greatness of a story you've actually seen versus a hypothetical one - you can only say what disappointed you in what you have seen, what it might've led you to expect that you might've felt cheated by. But if you were fully satisified by the canon story, as seems to be your point here, well.... I guess it's one of those road-not-taken questions. (Come to think of it, though, I read fanfic to explore those kinds of questions, so... why not think about it?)
But I do see your point about Angel's and Spike's reactions to the soul being different, and the value of that, although there was never enough of that in the show, for my taste. Was there really a difference between asking for a soul versus being saddled with one? And if not, why not, and who's judging all this? But that's the thing about the Jossverse works - there are holes left open for interpretation, especially around areas of philosophy, like religion, and no definitive answers, so people end up bringing their own background and experiences to bear to fill in those holes. And not everyone ends up with the same type of type of sweater when they get to knitting in those spaces.
I'm babbling; essentially, it's just: me like Spike, me like Angel, there are all sorts of interesting questions to ask and/or ponder about both, yay. And kudos to you, amazing essay.