elisi | Imzy

Current Mood: curious
Crossposts: http://elisi.livejournal.com/995158.html

Entry tags:

places other than lj

Imzy

So, I am slowly trying to get on top of stuff. (Had to go back to skip=100 to catch up on my flist...)

And remembered that I signed up to Imzy. (Partly just so no one else would take 'elisi'.)

Apparently you can only follow communities, not friend other users, and I think that means that elisi is a community? Please let me know if you are there and I'll add you.

I also found this article: Imzy: Can an Ex-Reddit Exec Really Hack the Online Abuse Problem?, which helped explain a lot of why the set-up is the way it is. (The Whys behind the Whos are always useful.)

Oh and I have ~~five~~ two invites [left] if anyone wants one. :)

(The name is good. It sounds whimsical and odd. And does anyone know how to customise beyond adding a userpic? I've looked, but not in any depth.)

ETA: Right, so I went ahead & created a Doctor Who meta community:

Mirrorleaf

Come join me! :)

ETA2: Omg, managing/setting up a community is so much better/clearer than setting up a personal account. Like, you can find stuff, and it makes sense!!

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So far any customization options are very limited. You can have a userpic (which barely shows up anywhere it's used) and a banner. Sizes can be found here: https://www.imzy.com/artcollective/post/frequently_used_banner_sizes

There are some external viewing formats that have been created, notably to switch the default view from grey on white to white on black which is a lot easier on the eyes.

And yes, they added the personal blog option recently though it's essentially the same as a community. You just restrict posting access to yourself.

Well, I've gone & created a community, so here we go. Don't need another personal blog, so might wait with that one. What's your name over there?

What's your community?

I'm yourlibrarian there too but I haven't started a personal account either. I may in another month or two. Instead, I started up https://www.imzy.com/whedonverses and https://www.imzy.com/merlin_more

My community is https://www.imzy.com/mirrorleaf

About Doctor Who meta, so not sure it'll be your thing. But I shall certainly join your Whedon verse one. Maybe Merlin. Not sure I'd have anything to contribute...

Oooh, a meta community -- though yeah, unfortunately not an area I'd be able to write about.

And that would be great! Well, at least with Merlin you could take the polls ;) That's another frustrating thing about Imzy though is that there are no ticky box options. Apparently modifying that is on their to-do list but probably not a very high priority issue right now.

The thing that bugs me the most though is their choice to use markup for posts and comments instead of HTML, which means it'll be impossible to just copy and paste content I might be making elsewhere to a new post there. And especially if it's a long post that's an incredible time suck. I gather they're thinking of adding a wiki capability in the future, which does tie in better to using markup but right now every other site uses HTML, even Tumblr which is focused largely on graphics.

Oooh, a meta community -- though yeah, unfortunately not an area I'd be able to write about.
Also, not much is currently happening, as the show is on hiatus until 2017...

But I shall try to talk about whedon 'verse stuff if I remember! :)

The thing that bugs me the most though is their choice to use markup for posts and comments instead of HTML
I don't even know what markup *is*. So, I guess that's something I can feed them back on. As I have only done one post so far, I can't say I noticed, but I probably would as soon as I tried to do something more complex.

Actually I didn't until recently either. The advantage I can see in markup is that it's not language based but relies on characters, which is helpful if you've got multilingual users. At the same time I find it less intuitive for that very reason. Not all of HTML commands are direct but some (like strong or cite) are. I'm also not clear how automated readers interpret markup whereas HTML is in use everywhere.

Still none the wiser. ;) Guess I'll have to learn as I go along.

Sorry! For example making something italicized in markup would look like *yourwords* whereas in HTML it would be yourwords.

They do have a text editor that you can bring up in comments by clicking the Aa link at the bottom of the comment field. In posts, it defaults to presenting those same options at the top of the text box.

So I don't know that it will be hard to work with necessarily, but it does impact whether you can just copy and paste the same formatted text from one site to the next which right now I could do at DW, AO3 or Tumblr.

And of course I pasted that forgetting that DW would convert my < i > and < /i > into italicized text...

Sorry! For example making something italicized in markup would look like *yourwords* whereas in HTML it would be yourwords.
I figured it was probably something like that, but an example was lovely. (And I didn't mean to suggest that you ought to explain!)

They do have a text editor that you can bring up in comments by clicking the Aa link at the bottom of the comment field. In posts, it defaults to presenting those same options at the top of the text box.
So like Rich Text? (I'll have a look next time I post something. Don't mean to keep asking. /o\)

So I don't know that it will be hard to work with necessarily, but it does impact whether you can just copy and paste the same formatted text from one site to the next which right now I could do at DW, AO3 or Tumblr.
Yeah, it certainly puts paid to my vague idea of crossposting - or even re-posting old stuff to Imzy. It's HTML'd up the wazoo!

LOL

NP! Yes, I think it's much the same as what LJ/DW offers (I always have my text box set to HTML so I often forget it's even there). But for communities of people sharing fanfic or even long meta posts, this seems like an unfortunate decision.

One positive thing is that Imzy offers very long posting options and comment options (80,000 characters or nearly 30 pages of text for posts, 20,000 I think for comments) so most stories would fit comfortably in a single post, and it's ideal for comment fic.

On the other hand wikis tend to use a form up of markup (to make things more confusing there are various kinds) and a lot of fandoms do use wikis or may even be centered around one. So for those people it may be handy in archiving stuff on one. But right now the searchability of Imzy and communities seems very limited given the restrictions on tags, at least for the kinds of things that fanwork creators want. Still, that hasn't stopped the use of LJ and Tumblr which are even worse atm, so ::hands::

I always have my text box set to HTML so I often forget it's even there
Same here! I can work with the HTML and fix it if something's wrong, but Rich Text frustrates me...

One positive thing is that Imzy offers very long posting options and comment options (80,000 characters or nearly 30 pages of text for posts, 20,000 I think for comments) so most stories would fit comfortably in a single post, and it's ideal for comment fic.
Well, it is very much centered around communities & discussions (it's like... the anti-Tumblr, I think *g*), so that makes sense.

But right now the searchability of Imzy and communities seems very limited given the restrictions on tags, at least for the kinds of things that fanwork creators want. Still, that hasn't stopped the use of LJ and Tumblr which are even worse atm, so ::hands::
*nods* Guess we'll have to wait & see!

Do you mean markdown? I follow a lot of tech sites/press/podcasts/etc. and it's much beloved by the tech community (they'll comment about things like a word processor that lets you write directly in markdown). I'd always kind of wondered about it but never had a reason to look into it. It does look a lot simpler to write out, though, as you say, annoying to have to switch between markdown and html.

Between the creator's background with Reddit and the choice of markdown, I think we're dealing with a platform that grew out of a different bit of the internet than fandom is used to.

I appreciate the goals here, though I think we all have to acknowledge that what really keeps abuse at bay is real, human moderators putting in a lot of time. Giving them the right tools to work with (some amount of anonymity control, banning tools, clear, enforceable site rules) is necessary but not sufficient.

My standard for this will always be Television Without Pity. They were hardcore about their posting rules and had a serious moderation team.

Between the creator's background with Reddit and the choice of markdown, I think we're dealing with a platform that grew out of a different bit of the internet than fandom is used to.

Oh definitely. I think they were expecting fandom groups but were completely unfamiliar with the practices and needs that creative fandom participants have. (Or the fact that they tend to mobilize quickly and are not shy about speaking up about those needs). I'm reminded of the experience Pinboard had after so many fandom participants decamped from delicious to find another bookmarking site.

Re: your comments below, I agree that the entire premise depends on the reliability and even handedness of the moderators, because even more than communities Imzy is dependent on community leaders. But it will also require a group of "leader moderators" on Imzy to step in if moderators don't.

The real problem is going to come due to their decision to allow people to open personal blogs, because the way a personal blog is run may be very different than a community and not everyone makes a particularly good moderator. People have a particular tendency to think of it as "my space" which in places like LJ and DW in particular, it is.

So due to that as well as the heavy reliance on mods, I think the level of expectations between what may fly in one place versus another will cause problems down the line.

Oh definitely. I think they were expecting fandom groups but were completely unfamiliar with the practices and needs that creative fandom participants have. (Or the fact that they tend to mobilize quickly and are not shy about speaking up about those needs).
Have they been courting fandom? Or, at any rate, the LJ/DW/Tumblr wing of fandom, because I assume there's a fandom presence over on reddit and in various other forums. I've got some thoughts over on the LJ version of this post about the differences between forum communities and journaling communities. It strikes me here that these guys are trying to create the Dreamwidth of Reddit. Or a Reddit tempered with some of the community emphasis that helps tame abuse in journaling communities. If our corner of fandom, with our needs and assumptions and just the way we're used to doing things, didn't feel a need for a Reddit, then I don't know why we really need a cuddlier, more indie Reddit replacement? It seems like rather a culture clash for me, but I'd like to know if the creators are looking for our ilk or if this just somehow trickled into our realm.

The real problem is going to come due to their decision to allow people to open personal blogs, because the way a personal blog is run may be very different than a community and not everyone makes a particularly good moderator. People have a particular tendency to think of it as "my space" which in places like LJ and DW in particular, it is.
Agreed. It seems like a very weird franken-forum kind of thing and I don't know that the mores are going to translate well between the two kinds of areas.

So due to that as well as the heavy reliance on mods, I think the level of expectations between what may fly in one place versus another will cause problems down the line.
Yes. I think all the decent forums I've ever participated in have a very rigid, site-wide set of rules and an official team of mods. You need consistency like that when people are going to be coming and going. It seems like the creators of this site are trying to graft in some of the more sticky, community-centered ness and personal spaces of a journaling site so they can rely on the sort of . . . soft-modding that occurs in places like this just through group expectation, but I'm not sure how much that's compatible with the forum format?

It strikes me here that these guys are trying to create the Dreamwidth of Reddit.

I think that's accurate in terms of the overall setup, although I gather they're being backed by venture capital so that makes it pretty different from DW which was basically a homegrown business and was definitely focused on creative fandom from the get-go. And yes, I don't think they're familiar at all with fanwork-centered fandoms. There is actually a sizable fandom presence on Reddit but it's part of the way fandom is scattered all over the place instead of concentrated on a few platforms. (Of course, these days there's a vast diversity of platforms for interaction which was less true in the early days of LJ).

While fandoms were heavily forum-centered before a lot of writers shifted to blog-style sites, that's probably unknown to fans who started out at places like Tumblr or Twitter or Wattpad so maybe to them Imzy seems new. But I've yet to see any sort of "killer app" at Imzy. What interest there is seems to center on the idea of easily hosting images and text together combined with a conversational function, which isn't feasible on Tumblr. However a lot of things are clunky there (especially behind the scenes navigation if you run a community, oy! So many screens to go through and so much clicking around to switch from one thing to another). I have my doubts it would easily get better either because of the way the whole site is set up.

Yeah, I don't see much on Imzy that I can't get elsewhere, though if I was a Reddit user, perhaps I would want a kinder, cuddlier version.

I am now rather tickled by the notion of the infants on Tumblr 'discovering' internet forums and finding them exciting and novel, though. That would be amazing.

Yeah, I don't see much on Imzy that I can't get elsewhere, though if I was a Reddit user, perhaps I would want a kinder, cuddlier version.

What's particularly odd is looking at all the feature requests and bug reports in the official community. Pretty much everything people want they can already get here at DW, so the bigger question seems to be why they're not using this site's communities? That's why I keep wondering if many of the people trying out Imzy don't actually know DW exists or what it does.

That's why I keep wondering if many of the people trying out Imzy don't actually know DW exists or what it does.
Do you mean LJ people? My guess would be that DW is too similar to LJ. Imzy looks like something different.

If you mean people generally, then... Well, if I wasn't on LJ I'd never have heard of Dreamwidth.

My standard is Ta-Nehisi Coates. He has cultivated a well-informed and intelligent community of readers, by ruthlessly moderating his comments section. He asks that people only comment if a) They stay and on topic and b) Have something to contribute. Trolls are shut down instantly. As are people just waffling.

They might be LJ people, they do sometimes mention "Dreamwidth does this" or "LJ does this" but I'm guessing at least some of them are people who came to fandom after the LJ boom and have never had an account there. (And, as you point out, even among fans, Dreamwidth isn't well known).

My 'issue' with DW is that it's essentially the same as LJ - just smaller and more 'organic' (as in homegrown and ecologically friendly). Like a fair-trade version of LJ. Which is nice, but (like I said on another occasion), I'll stick with Greendale. ;) I never want to sound like I'm bashing DW, but it just never appealed to me beyond being a back-up. IF it had never been created, I'd probably be using IJ for the same thing....

Imzy is - as Promethia says - something quite different, more like a forum than the sort of blog-community-with-communities that LJ has fostered.

/rambling

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