elisi | End of an era... in two years time.

Oh man . . .

Am unsurprised about Moffat leaving but quite a bit surprised about the replacement. And I think it fair to say that I have been a Chibnall defender.

Do not know if want!

ETA: The man who wrote 'Cyberwoman' is being put in charge of Doctor Who? This is both brilliant and terrifying.

Edited 2016-01-23 00:55 (UTC)

Yeah. Although someone pointed out that he is also the person who gave us Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which I love beyond reason.

(Otherwise I'd be carefully rending my garments, because 42, which he also (ptui) wrote, is my go-to for personally-considered horrible Who writing. At least until Kill the Moon came along ....

Still, I shall be relentlessly cheerful and optimistic, and go forward in all my hopes, etc.

Although someone pointed out that he is also the person who gave us Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which I love beyond reason.
I enjoyed it, though some of the dialogue is just appallingly bad.

Otherwise I'd be carefully rending my garments, because 42, which he also (ptui) wrote, is my go-to for personally-considered horrible Who writing.
Lol! I don't think I've sat through that one more than once. My own standard is Stolen Earth/Journey's End.

Still, I shall be relentlessly cheerful and optimistic, and go forward in all my hopes, etc.
He did write many of the best episodes of original-flavor Torchwood. And as I understand it was basically the show runner for the second season, without which, would there really have been a point to Torchwood? Let's be honest, here.

I do think he has a real gift for character writing, so no worries there. And I love the way he writes ensembles--he has a wonderful sense of the balance within a group. And, bless him, the man can do camp. But in all other aspects I'd say my overwhelming impression is that he's shaky at best. It'll be a change, that's for sure.

Also I fear we can retire our metaphorical analysis gear . . .

I am also nursing a certain amount of anxiety because I am not sure that I can rightly call myself a Doctor Who fan.

It is entirely possible that I am just a Steven Moffat fan. I suppose we shall see.

Am unsurprised about Moffat leaving
Well, this season was supposed to have been his last, and it does rather tie everything up with a neat bow. It'll be interesting to see what he does for S10 (it's gonna be a nostalgia fest right from the start, and no mistake...)

Do not know if want!
I'm very zen. I can see why he was chosen, am... vaguely sort of interested to see what he'll do with it. I sort of feel that it'll be like watching Classic Who? It won't be that mad, deep tangle of symbolism, just a show.

The man who wrote 'Cyberwoman' is being put in charge of Doctor Who? This is both brilliant and terrifying.
And before you know it, Moffat haters will be a thing of the past. Just like all the RTD haters seemed to vanish from the internet as soon as Moffat took over...

Well, this season was supposed to have been his last, and it does rather tie everything up with a neat bow.
I'm, frankly, a bit relieved he's leaving? I don't wanna watch him burn out or preside over the decline of the show he's built as one has to do over and over with American TV.

. . . just occurred to me that Moffat's last season is the best chance we've got for a complete, off-the rails, time travel dreamscape Inception-fantasia crazy-fest. oh man oh man oh man oh man . . .

I sort of feel that it'll be like watching Classic Who? It won't be that mad, deep tangle of symbolism, just a show.
I sort of feel like it'll be like watching Rusty Who but without the deep personal animosity for the writer. I don't think Chibnall has ever made me want to throw things at the TV. Could be fun!

And before you know it, Moffat haters will be a thing of the past. Just like all the RTD haters seemed to vanish from the internet as soon as Moffat took over...
I'll probably take up Moffat hatred, personally. Just for nostalgia's sake.

(Otherwise I'd be carefully rending my garments, because 42, which he also (ptui) wrote, is my go-to for personally-considered horrible Who writing. At least until Kill the Moon came along ....
I don't understand the Kill the Moon hate. Well, I can understand disliking something just because - but it's a very well written episode, important in terms of character development, arc, ties to the overall show... Compared to, say, Sleep No More, which had no redeeming features AT ALL (apart from the Found Footage thing) and could be destroyed forever leaving the show exactly as it was before, I can't see why people are so unhappy with Kill the Moon. (There is the whole 'abortion' thing, which was unintended on the part of the writer, which might make him blind, but it never bothered me.) Aaanyway, IMHO the worst Dr Who episode is Midnight, because it fails at being Doctor Who. (Kill the Moon is outstanding at being Doctor Who.) Sleep No More is of course objectively worse, but one of the features of it is that the Doctor and Clara stumble into a story that isn't theirs, so it's deliberately not Dr Who. (OK, I rambled, and I feel we've been down this path before. Many apologies if I've merely repeated something I've said a hundred times before. But I had a loooong week at work, and being able to talk about something that's not work is wonderful.)

Still, I shall be relentlessly cheerful and optimistic, and go forward in all my hopes, etc.
I never had anything against him. Well, I used to detest Cyberwoman, back when it first aired, but then Jack/Ianto became an actual thing and how could I hate an episode that included Jack french-kissing Ianto back to life? Besides, Torchwood was crack. <3

I'm, frankly, a bit relieved he's leaving? I don't wanna watch him burn out or preside over the decline of the show he's built as one has to do over and over with American TV.
*nods* Also, as you say elsewhere - we can have a life! ;)

. . . just occurred to me that Moffat's last season is the best chance we've got for a complete, off-the rails, time travel dreamscape Inception-fantasia crazy-fest. oh man oh man oh man oh man . . .
I hope you are right. *crosses fingers & toes*

I sort of feel like it'll be like watching Rusty Who but without the deep personal animosity for the writer. I don't think Chibnall has ever made me want to throw things at the TV. Could be fun!
I seem to remember this, but really? You got through Cyberwoman intact?

I'll probably take up Moffat hatred, personally. Just for nostalgia's sake.
... For some reason I'm not surprised.

I seem to remember this, but really? You got through Cyberwoman intact?
IDK, he just doesn't push my buttons. I mean, Cyberwoman was obviously complete crap, but it was also the first time any of the characters were vaguely interesting or even felt like three-dimensional characters. And people yelled at each other about important things and nobody had a monopoly on Being Right. <--- Like I said to Kaffyr, I really like how Chibnall does group dynamics.

The cringe-worthy stuff just made me roll my eyes and laugh in disbelief and the good stuff was the first sign of any quality in the show whatsoever.

Fair nuff. I'm just waiting, gleefully, to see how the Moffat haters will square their joy over a new showrunner, with that showrunner's track-record. Say what you will about Moffat, but he never put a woman in a metal bikini. ;)

I have a feeling that, whatever happens, it's going to be deeply entertaining.

Wish me luck, I'm off to shovel twelve inches of snow in raging winds.

I have a feeling that, whatever happens, it's going to be deeply entertaining.
And without the emotional investment. *grabs popcorn*

Wish me luck, I'm off to shovel twelve inches of snow in raging winds.
!!! Well, I believe that's what you wanted...

I don't understand the hate for it either. The moon was an egg? Big deal.

>> IMHO the worst Dr Who episode is Midnight, because it fails at being Doctor Who.

Agree with this, too.

I don't understand the hate for it either. The moon was an egg? Big deal.
It's Doctor Who. The moon being an egg makes perfect sense. :)

Agree with this, too.
I am still thrown over how much it's loved. I remember watching it, and being bored & annoyed. (NO ONE had a pen & paper? NO ONE thought to even ASK?) I mentally slotted it in alongside From Out of the Rain (that year's Torchwood clunker) and went to bed thinking that at least the preview for next week looked good. And then I woke up to find fandom raving and calling it the best thing ever. And I suppose it's a good exploration of people turning on each other. But it's NOT Doctor Who.

Exactly. This is a show where police boxes are bigger on the inside and a guy explodes into a new face every couple of years. And people keep nattering on about the ''impossible physics'' of the moon being an egg.

The first time I saw it I thought it was RTD trying to be like Moffat, and I hated it. I can appreciate it more now, but it's still not proper Doctor Who. It's like the total screeching opposite of what Dr Who should be.

And people keep nattering on about the ''impossible physics'' of the moon being an egg.
Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!!!

The first time I saw it I thought it was RTD trying to be like Moffat, and I hated it.
It's actually the exact opposite. In The Writers Tale he admits that it's the closest thing he's written [for Doctor Who] to his own world view.

It's like the total screeching opposite of what Dr Who should be.
Doctor Who: Intellect and Romance Triumph over Brute Force & Cynicism.
Midnight: Brute Force & Cynicism Triumph over Intellect and Romance.

I meant more in the sense of the aesthetic of it than the world-view it espouses. ''High concept horror episode set in one room'' is more Moffat's aesthetic than Rusty's.

Ah, I see. I believe the 'concept' was 'How can we make something really cheap'. ;)

Also I fear we can retire our metaphorical analysis gear . . .

I will steadfastly refuse to do that. I believe that Who will always have patterns and deeper meanings, even if Chibnall never becomes the trickster that Moffat was. We humans are pattern-makers, pattern-seekers, and pattern-seers, and I think that will hold true for this show, even if the patterns weren't planted there deliberately. So yes, I'll hold out hope for meta.

As for Torchwood, if he was responsible for much of the second season's running, then I might be willing to forgive him "Cybervixen." Even though there are few episodes of Torchwood that I remember at all, there are at least a few that hit me. I still feel sad about the loss of Tosh and Owen, for instance, and I really liked Gwen with all her human imperfections.

There is no prescriptive description of a Who fan that I'd hold with, no matter what Gallifrey Base or the like might think. If there's anything that makes you want to watch it, even intermittently, then you're a fan in my eyes, she said belligerently.

Cyberwoman was one of the prime casualties of 'LOOK! LOOK! WE'RE ALL ~ADULT AND ~DARING AND ~NOT FOR CHILDREN!!!!eleventy!!!'

That said, the stupidity apart I have a huge soft spot for it. Any time one of my OTPs start waving guns at each other and saying they'll kill them makes me happy. And this one had added kisses. <3

Torchwood = crack

I definitely agree with you on the reason for Cybervixen. I think I could have lived with her, steel bikini and all, if it hadn't been for the "I have Pterodactyl barbecue sauce and I'm not afraid to use it!" bit, because it did explore the idea of what makes you human, and do you stay human all the time, and what makes us monsters and do we stay monsters all the time - is humanity mutable ... OK, there's a lot to like about the episode.

To quote a very old comment (from some fandom wank from years gone by) about the show as a whole (this was written about halfway through S1?):

"It involves alien-hunting and a cyborg fighting a pterodactyl, and I am quite, quite certain that every single pairing is canon. Just watch an episode, pick any two of the main characters, and I can pretty much assure you that it's either canon or will be canon in the near future. It's just a fanfic-writer's dream."

And also this, which also mentions the drawbacks:

"I think it has everything it needs to be able to make a really good show, once it finds its groove and figures out its characters and the writers get over their "OMG SEX! Tee-hee!" phase, but I really don't think that's going to happen in the first season. So far, the quality oscillates even more than New Who does, which is really kinda not good. Like, at all.

But in the meantime we have canon mpreg and hands in jars and pterodactyls getting punched in the face, not to mention the RAMPANT HO-YAY OMG YES, so hopefully that will keep us going until the quality evens out a bit. Well, that and the fanfic. XD"

*deep sigh*

I miss the fic. The fic was AMAZING.

Also, I love your icon. <3

Take the icon with my blessing and with credit!

Yeah, in addition to the themes that could be underneath all the silliness, there was the good silliness of OTPs and OT3s, 4s, etc. and yes, a pterodactyl getting punched in the face. And Jack holding the man's hand as he committed suicide in the car, which made me cry uncontrollably and realize that Barrowman really can act, detractors be damned, and other stuff, and maybe now I want to rewatch some stuff? Augh. Why do you do this to me?

Augh. Why do you do this to me?
I'm evil. I have an official card and everything. >:)

End of an era... in two years time.

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