I should post something...

[elisi]

..about Deep Breath.

But these few weeks are literally the worst out of the whole year at work. (Worked 11 1/2 hours yesterday. That's not typical, but every day is busy and stressful.) So I promise I *will* write, when I have found some time and energy, and managed to collect my thoughts. There's plenty there, but I am still at the 'fire bad, tree pretty' stage. (That's not a spoiler, but a Buffy quote.)

Although if you're curious, then my reactions mirrored Clara's almost exactly.

Comments

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Your reactions mirrored Clara's… interesting ;)

Take your time! We'll still be there when you're less busy and you have more available brainspace!

[elisi]

Your reactions mirrored Clara's… interesting ;)
She is the audience stand-in. I am the audience.

And yes, I didn't think you'd go anywhere. Am mostly surprised that no one's been bugging me yet. ;)

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Indeed ;)

I like the icon ^_^

[elisi]

Icon is by such_heights. <3

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

*snags* :D

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

We're not bugging you because we know beautiful things are percolating and brewing (and other coffee-related metaphors) in your brain :-)

[elisi]

She has a whole post full here.

[elisi]

Awww, thank you. ♥

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

I loved the ep, and had lots of isolated meta/flaily thoughts but have yet to formulate anything coherent.

Mostly, I'm just really angry about the shirt Clara is wearing in the next episode. Have you seen it?! I feel like we're personally being trolled by the Doctor Who wardrobe department.

[elisi]

I loved the ep, and had lots of isolated meta/flaily thoughts but have yet to formulate anything coherent.
Promethia is throwing a ton of wonderful thoughts at me, but I'm just... too tired to anything.

Mostly, I'm just really angry about the shirt Clara is wearing in the next episode. Have you seen it?! I feel like we're personally being trolled by the Doctor Who wardrobe department.
Well it's very ugly. But it's kinda hilarious. Like they're actively hitting people over the head, just in case they've not noticed the theme... ::points to icon::

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

Eeeeee yay well I'm excited to read you and Promethia's thoughts and bounce off them whenever you're ready.

Well it's very ugly. But it's kinda hilarious. Like they're actively hitting people over the head, just in case they've not noticed the theme

YES EXACTLY. It's *so* very ugly that the only reason I can conceive for them to put Jenna in it is to be like LOOK! SYMBOLISM! METAPHOR! PHOEBE, ELISI & CO LOOK LOOK DON'T BLINK DON'T LOOK AWAY LOOK MIRRORS LOOK DOORWAYS TO THE SOUL LOOK *explodes*

Maybe that's why the eyes are on an orange background; the orange symbolises the fiery death of meta they are planning for us.

[elisi]

Eeeeee yay well I'm excited to read you and Promethia's thoughts and bounce off them whenever you're ready.
I'll get there. At some point... Although I think I might be better equipped after tomorrow's episode. Twelve was so... all over the place in Deep Breath.

YES EXACTLY. It's *so* very ugly that the only reason I can conceive for them to put Jenna in it is to be like LOOK! SYMBOLISM! METAPHOR! PHOEBE, ELISI & CO LOOK LOOK DON'T BLINK DON'T LOOK AWAY LOOK MIRRORS LOOK DOORWAYS TO THE SOUL LOOK *explodes*
For those three saps who didn't pick up on the whole thing in Deep Breath. Although the EYES were sort of front and centre.

Maybe that's why the eyes are on an orange background; the orange symbolises the fiery death of meta they are planning for us.
LOL. And then Evil!Mary Poppins will feast on our liver. ;)

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

Although the EYES were sort of front and centre.

Yes. So much looking and seeing (and not seeing and looking-without-looking) and yes.

And then Evil!Mary Poppins will feast on our liver.

I'm so afraid.

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

That is interesting that your reactions mirrored Clara's...

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Ohh, interesting...and totally understandable.

*HUGS YOU HARD*

[enevarim]

The fact that we have not been clamouring loudly does not mean that we aren't looking forward very much. I somewhat went along with the people who pointed out that given that Clara knew War, and for that matter One, her being upset at the Doctor with a new older face was... kind of like Rory doing something silly in season six after he'd survived as a Roman centurion for two thousand years. I'm sure there's a technical term for required-by-the-author-to-advance-the-plot-or-exposition-at-the-expense-of-remaining-in-character, but I'm blanking on it.

Looking forward to you explaining how it all makes perfect sense after all. (I did think of you as I was reading Den of Geek's review.)

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Oh, all the gorgeous things! ♥ Thanks for the link!

[the-redjay.livejournal.com]

I'm intrigued by the Buffy quote.

And look after yourself. *hug*

ETA: Whenever I try to comment on your blog it says "You entered a username, but selected to post anonymously or as the currently logged in user. Go back and decide which you really want to do." Which is very snarky, thank you very much.

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

/o\ Hope you can get some rest soon!

Lookin' forward to talk and flail, as ever.

[elisi]

Yes. So much looking and seeing (and not seeing and looking-without-looking) and yes.
Mmmmmm. Lalalalalala I knew it. :)

I'm so afraid.
Then you're watching it right!

[elisi]

I am Clara.

[elisi]

MAH DOCTOR! WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO?

(Oh god, that last scene... That was perfection.)

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

(Wasn't it?! I got chills and was foaming and happy and it seemed no one else on the InterWebs was. O_o It was just so...EPIC. I needed that.)

[elisi]

I'm intrigued by the Buffy quote.
It'll make sense in context. (Buffy is RIDICULOUSLY quotable. How far are you?)

And look after yourself. *hug*
Oh yes. Whitby here I come.

Which is very snarky, thank you very much.
Should I be proud?

[elisi]

Thank you. We're going to Whitby today. So... maybe not restful, but certainly a break. :)

And aw, thank you. <3

[the-redjay.livejournal.com]

Early season 2?

[promethia_tenk]

I'm intrigued by the Buffy quote.
I basically had to watch Buffy to be able to communicate with her . . .

[promethia_tenk]

Mostly, I'm just really angry about the shirt Clara is wearing in the next episode. Have you seen it?! I feel like we're personally being trolled by the Doctor Who wardrobe department.
*snort* It's a little on-the-nose, isn't it? Though, TBH, it's also freaking me out. In the past the eyes have always been in the environment or obviously belonging to particular people. WHY ARE THERE EYEBALLS ON CLARA? WHO IS WATCHING THROUGH CLARA? LEAVE CLARA ALONE!

[promethia_tenk]

Maybe that's why the eyes are on an orange background; the orange symbolises the fiery death of meta they are planning for us.
*shivers*



Here, I made a thing:



Not entirely sure what that means yet, but pretty sure it means something.

[the-redjay.livejournal.com]

I am increasingly discovering that she speaks a second dialect of English - Buffy fandom.

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

Omg that's beautiful. <3 well done.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I look forward to your review :)

[geekslave.livejournal.com]

Hope things calm down for you soon and you get to clear the cobwebs from your brain. :)

Stacey

[sea_thoughts]

That was Moff's intention, so... yay?

[elisi]

You've got a good while still to go before you hit that quote then. :)

[elisi]

It broke my heart, yet also helped me move on...

[elisi]

It's my first language...

[elisi]

It's where I learned all the tropes...

[elisi]

Thank you! I'll get there, promise.

[elisi]

It's not so much cobwebs, as... madness. Just too much stuff.

[elisi]

Well, yes. Me and A. (work colleague, my only RL fellow 'fan' had the same reaction! (She liked Eleven best also.)

[elisi]

Somehow missed this comment! So sorry. (Too busy... /o\)

Anyway, I shall certainly explain how it all works, and why Clara['s reaction] was perfect. <3

[enevarim]

Busy-ness totally understandable. I'm so busy myself I've only just seen the Robot of Sherwood episode. It is the first Twelve story that has grown on me.

I'm also looking forward to you explaining how post-Day and post-Akhaten (“Rest now, my warrior”) Doctor has such hatred still, and how it isn't reductive to have the Doctor become the Doctor as a reaction to the Daleks. Yes, I remember that in the only pre-Dalek story the Doctor nearly kills a caveman until he's stopped by Ian. I get that it fits. And that the “I'm not a hero” / “Well, neither am I” bit from Sherwood chimes against it. (And I loved the possible lookback from there to the original version of Human Nature, where the Doctor and John Smith talk near the end and Smith wonders if he might have taught a few more would-be Doctors how to do it.) But... it felt like a generic Doctor-meets-the-Daleks story, not a this Doctor, at this point in his history, meets the Daleks. So, as I say, looking forward to you explaining how this is All Wrong. :)

[elisi]

Busy-ness totally understandable. I'm so busy myself I've only just seen the Robot of Sherwood episode. It is the first Twelve story that has grown on me.
I've watched it twice, quite simply because it's so funny! (There are some serious things beneath the surface, but my goodness, it's fun!)

I have not read the original Human Nature, so can't comment, but shall try to get to grips with all the rest. It does fit, but I need some time... This is literally THE busiest time of year at work, so spare time has not been forthcoming.

[enevarim]

Re-watched “Into the Dalek”. I think my main confusion now is how Twelve switches off. How he goes from the cautious hope of “So you saw a star being born, and you learned something. O Dalek, do not be lying to me.” And then the Dalek turns back to normal and the Doctor turns off and gives up, until Clara slaps him. And yes, it fits with the extra scene from Season Five where Eleven says that one of the reasons he took Amy is because he's so old that he doesn't see things any longer, but she does, and when she does he does too, so this could be seen as Clara performing exactly the same function. Complete with River-slapping. (I'm really looking forward to the Ponds Forever commentary track for this episode.)

But in this case the Doctor had seen it, before Clara's influence (though prompted to ask Rusty what changed by Journey's question). And what happened then to the self-definition of “Never cruel or cowardly. Never give up, never give in.”? Though Clara had to remind Eleven of that in Day, too, so maybe it does all fit and it's just that I just don't like the idea that my Doctor carries part of his conscience in external storage. Memory, okay, but conscience – if that's optional and not innate, what's to stop him waking up one morning and becoming... ah. The Dream Lord or the Valeyard. Or Waters of Mars Ten. It does all fit, doesn't it. It just becomes that much less of a story (in Robot of Sherwood terms) and that much more precarious. (And no wonder he totally failed to react well to the Seeker in A Good Day, if it was something he had had to guard himself against doing all this time...)

And we aren't trying to rush you.

[elisi]

As it happens I hurt my foot this morning, so instead of rushing around & Doing Things I am forced to sit here by the computer. ;)

So there should be meta, soon-ish.

And your thoughts are v. useful! It helps to see in which direction people are thinking, and gives me something concrete to focus on. :)

How he goes from the cautious hope of “So you saw a star being born, and you learned something. O Dalek, do not be lying to me.”
I am not sure that is hope. More like... this is what hopelessness would look like to a Dalek? They want to destroy everything, but if that's impossible... What is the point? Like he says - it wasn't 'good', it was broken. He drew the wrong conclusions, Clara had to force him to understand his own words.

Though Clara had to remind Eleven of that in Day, too, so maybe it does all fit and it's just that I just don't like the idea that my Doctor carries part of his conscience in external storage. Memory, okay, but conscience
See this is why I never liked the 'You need someone to stop you' thing, which is very much where RTD took the Doctor. (And Ten was so very broken, poor thing. Many [old skool] fans refuse to recognise Water of Mars Ten as the Doctor. BUT. What he needs is just another perspective. Someone to push back. Someone to help him see there are different ways of doing things. If the Doctor can be summed up by 'Intellect and romance triumph over brute force and cynicism', then sometimes that cynicism could be the Doctor's... Especially now, with Twelve.

[enevarim]

Hurrah for meta soon-ish! Am replying immediately because have just moved and there's a huge pile of boxes in the next room (mostly books) that I'm trying hard to ignore.

He drew the wrong conclusions, Clara had to force him to understand his own words.

I now have a totally mad ear-worm of Macbeth starting his speech

Had I but died an hour before this chance,
I had lived a blessed time; for, from this instant,
There’s nothing serious in mortality:

which to his conscious point of view is camouflage and pretending-he-didn't-kill-Duncan-when-he-did but which on a deeper level is totally true, and Clara popping up and explaining it to him. Possibly with another resounding slap. Macbeth may never be the same. Thank you for that. :)

But why would Twelve say “do not be lying to me” if on some level he didn't really really want to believe that it was true?

summed up by 'Intellect and romance triumph over brute force and cynicism', then sometimes that cynicism could be the Doctor's... Especially now, with Twelve.

Ah. And that's the oldness then that Clara sees in Deep Breath: not the gray hair, but the cynicism. What happened to the man of hope and wonder who sailed out to see the universe? Ah. Okay. I don't think I like it, because I think I want my Doctor to be the embodiment of the principle and not part of the problem, but it does make total sense.

[elisi]

Hurrah for meta soon-ish! Am replying immediately because have just moved and there's a huge pile of boxes in the next room (mostly books) that I'm trying hard to ignore.
Good luck with the ignoring! (I know all about that...)

Macbeth may never be the same. Thank you for that. :)
Heeee. My pleasure.

But why would Twelve say “do not be lying to me” if on some level he didn't really really want to believe that it was true?
I think he maybe did? But then it reverted, and his disappointment coloured everything. He was a fool to even think that such a thing could be possible. (Self-criticism is the hardest kind.)

Ah. And that's the oldness then that Clara sees in Deep Breath: not the gray hair, but the cynicism. What happened to the man of hope and wonder who sailed out to see the universe? Ah. Okay. I don't think I like it, because I think I want my Doctor to be the embodiment of the principle and not part of the problem, but it does make total sense.
Every Doctor is a reaction against the previous one. So where Eleven was resolutely cheerful, Twelve is resolutely grumpy.